Starting Another "Relgion" Thread…

[AutoliteParticipant]

Rhino wrote:

As for holidays those coincide with pagan holidays and were used as a tool to better indoctrinate pagans into Christianity

Yes, this I understand. But what I don’t get is how Christians will acknowledge that there have been countless previous gods and beliefs throughout history yet they claim their god is the one and only ‘real’ god.

If the Christian god was unique or different from the previous gods then maybe they would be justified in what they believe. But he really isn’t. He’s just one of the latest gods.

Assuming that the historians are correct, then we know that Christianity is just a more recent conglomeration of previous gods, beliefs and stories. Stories like the global flood, the resurrection and the virgin birth are just rehashed tales taken from previous religions.

How is it that Christians can just ignore this???

[Solo MAN’S WisdomParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

Now that’s it’s Easter, I get to thinking about what it’s really all about. We know historically that Easter is a Pagan celebration of a fertility goddess and that’s why we have it at the Spring Equinox and why it is still associated with eggs and rabbits and s~~~.

Does it not bother the Christians that their resurrection story just got tacked on to a Pagan holiday? Does it not make the Christian curious as to why that is?

If you’re looking for a serious answer, try this:

In the early 300’s AD, Rome was the world superpower and its emperor was Constantine, a practicing pagan until he “converted” to Christianity. He brought with him many pagan practices to his “new” religion.
1. The notion that God’s Law functions the same as human laws. In other words, God makes arbitrary laws, and then must punish the “breaking” of these laws, instead of God’s Law being a Natural/Design Law like the laws of physics, that treat everyone equally and do not need any outside punishment for their violation. This is pagan “appeasement” theology, and has NO place in true Christianity.
2. Changing the original day of worship from the 7th day, Sabbath, traditionally kept by the Jews and early Christians, to the 1st Day, Sunday “The Venerable Day of the Sun.”
3. Celebrating a variety of pagan holidays [Dec. 25th — early Babylonian celebration of the “rebirth” of the Sun after the Winter Solstice, & Easter, as you mentioned earlier, celebrating pagan fertility rites, etc].
4. Bringing in symbols/icons [e.g. the fish shape, haloes — essentially Sun discs, and even crosses, which had been pagan symbols before Christ was killed on one].
5. Uniting the church with the power of the state to enforce his/their agenda.

All of these pagan practices, and more, are continued today, but that makes them no less pagan.

True Christianity presents the Truth, in Love, and leaves others Free to decide for themselves. Coercive force is found only in Satan’s government. Jesus never forced anyone to listen to Him or to follow Him. He left them Free to make up their own minds. He also stated “If you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father.”

You mentioned earlier that you considered yourself an atheist. Most atheists I’ve met are very thoughtful, intelligent people, and sadly, many, so called, Christians are blind sheep.

I would ask you to describe the “God” you don’t believe in. My guess is you will describe a horrible despot that is genocidal, homophobic, coercive, destructive, angry, arbitrary, arrogant, and hateful. And I would congratulate you for rejecting a “God” like this, because He’s just like Jesus revealed Him to be. He would not use His power to force behavior, or opinion, or even keep His children from killing Him. Get your mind around that.

When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.

[RhinoParticipant 3477]

Well these are complex question to answer and I am no theologian but I will try to answer this as best I can I know this will be a very long post but well worth the read. There are many clues in The Bible that will guide us on this journey. The first thing you must understand is every human thinks in a linear pattern we go from point a to point b throughout our lives because we are restricted by time and space.

God on the other hand has no restrictions in The Bible he clearly says “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” So when you talk about why where there other gods before God it is not true God was the first he just chose to reveal himself at the time of his choosing. God has his own reasons as to why he let man believe in other false gods perhaps he was testing his children and we were failing miserably and he finally decided to send Jesus to us and properly show us the true path.

In The Bible God acknowledges that although he has and always will be the one true god he understands that humans think in a linear time and space approach and so added this. “You shall have no other gods before Me.” The Bible is not denying there were other false gods before him he is just clearly saying he is the only God who created everything and if you worshipped a false god in the past you shall no longer do so.

Here is another great link that will explain this in more detail I encourage you to look into it and read I will post a quote from the article that can be found here:

The Bible gives us two facts that (on the surface) look contradictory. But they only appear to be contradictory because our minds are finite and limited, while God, our Creator, is infinite and unlimited. The Bible tells us there is one God. The Father is God. The Son is also God (John 20:28-29He was eternally with God and also was God (John 1:1-2). The Father is God and the Son is God, but there is only one God. God is one in one respect, but plural in another respect.

The early church explained this by saying that God is one in being, but plural in persons. This is part of the Christian doctrine usually called the doctrine of the Trinity. This doctrine does not teach plural Gods, but only one. They are distinct, but not separate. There is no “family” of Gods.

Also here is another example found here:

The Bible tells us that there is only one God in all existence (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8). However, it also mentions “other gods.” For example there is Adrammelech and Anammelech (2 Kings 17:31), Asherah (1 Kings 18:19), Baal (Judges 3:7), Chemosh (Num. 21:29), Dagon (1 Sam. 5:2), Molech (Lev. 18:21; 20:2-5), etc. The Bible is not contradicting itself. When the Bible speaks of other gods it is speaking of false gods that have no true existence. Gal. 4:8 says, “Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.” See also, Isaiah 37:19 and Jeremiah 2:11. God tells us that he alone is the true God and that all of the invented gods of man do not exist except in their own minds. So, we can see that the Bible is not contradicting itself regarding how many gods there are in existence. There is only one.

Note: in the verses in Genesis that have God saying “Let us make…, Let us go down . . . , etc.” are clues to the Trinitarian nature of God. God is a Trinity of persons: a Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There are not three Gods, but one. There are those who insist that the Trinity is polytheistic. But it is not. Trinitarians believe in a single being who is God.

I am really not doing this topic justice but hopefully you get an idea of why there were gods before God. In technological terms for a better understanding if God created a video game (the universe) and is able to see the start and finish of the game he could go in and edit it at any time he wants to tell us what we need to know. Who is to say God didn’t tell us about him in the past and human with the help of fallen angles corrupted that knowledge and created their own false idols for their own benefit? By our very nature we are sinners:

God also sent Jesus to die for our sins. (John 3:16) We are all sinners, meaning that we are imperfect and sinful. That is why we get sick and die. In contrast, the first man, Adam, was perfect. He had no sin and would never have died or become sick. But he lost his perfection when he disobeyed God. From Adam, we inherited sin and its wages, death.—Read Romans 5:12; 6:23.

Jesus, who was a perfect man, did not die for his own sins. He died for our sins. Jesus’ death makes it possible for us to enjoy everlasting life and be blessed by God.—Read 1 Peter 3:18.

Finally this ties into the rehashed tales you asked about and can be found here:

So what does the Bible have to say about other religions? It teaches that there is a spiritual war going on and the intention of Satan and his host of demonic spirits is to divert us from the truth. The apostle John wrote that “the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one (1 John 5:19)”, and the apostle Paul warned us that people will “follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons (1 Timothy 4:1)”. From the beginning Satan has been deceiving humanity. In the garden he convinced Eve that “ye shall be as gods”. Don’t you find it interesting that to be divine “as God” is a common thread among many religions, including Buddhism, Hinduism, Mormonism, and even false Christianity teachings by Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn and others1? The Bible also teaches that Satan and his servants will masquerade as ministers of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:13-14). Satan’s hoisting of false religions has been a very effective lie since it mixes in some truth. A lie mixed in with truth is much like rat poison, which contains 99% good food and 1% poison – its that 1% of poison (or lie) that will kill you!

This is why even in the last few hundred years we have reformations because man is deceived by the fallen angles and corrupts the knowledge God has given us to purposely devide and conquer and keep us separated from God and the truth. We cannot think outside of time and space like God does. We will never be able to fully understand why God does what he does because we lack the capacity to be God. Only human beings would have enough hubris in thinking we can fully understand God and why he does what he does when the truth is we never will be able to even come remotely close nor should we. That is why if you seek Jesus he will come to you and you will just know he chooses the time and place because he loves you and knows what is best for you when the time is right.

I will finally leave you with this to do with as you please:

[Anonymous 1]

Autolite wrote:

It’s not peace that I’m looking for, at least I don’t thing so. It’s just a question that I can’t solve. Why do so many people believe something to be true when the evidence indicates that it’s just all made up nonsense? I just can’t seem to wrap my head around this.

I think I might have to just settle for the fact that my brain is wired different then most others and leave it at that…

It may be easier for you to solve if you break the problem up into pieces. Look into suggestibility and hypnosis, it follows a bell curve. About 20% of people are easily hypnotized about 20% are impossible to hypnotize. Everyone else lies somewhere in-between. Why do people join Scientology? Watch the movie “The Master.” Your question is actually part of a much larger phenomenon. Cognitive dissonance and double think are not new techniques, but have been used since Babylon and beyond.

[JVBParticipant]

Interesting story PRR. Thanks bro.

Peace is > piece.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Rhino wrote:

So when you talk about why where there other gods before God it is not true God was the first he just chose to reveal himself at the time of his choosing.

It’s been said that Satan fabricated these ‘other gods’ in advance in order to deceive us. I’m just not buying that. It’s a stretch beyond absurd.

You guys are using the bible to validate what the bible says. It’s like a legal defendant who is also his own judge and jury. Do you really not see what is wrong with this?

In any case, I appreciate the posts and answers but TBH I’m still at a loss to understand how or why Christians believe what they do.

The crux of the problem seems to be that I’m looking for rationality in a religion who’s god is supposedly beyond the comprehension of man.

Do any of you Christians really believe that all these previous gods were a deliberate attempt to deceive us?

If god ‘waited’ to revel himself then god seems to have put a deliberate effort in convincing people that he doesn’t exist. It seems to be some sort of sick joke to give someone like me a brain that refuses to accept him with the result being an eternity in Hell.

We have the option of believing in him with absolutely zero credible evidence that he actually exists. Religion, AFAIK, is the only thing where this sort of ‘logic’ is accepted by so many…

[AutoliteParticipant]

Anonymous wrote:

It may be easier for you to solve if you break the problem up into pieces. Look into suggestibility and hypnosis, it follows a bell curve. About 20% of people are easily hypnotized about 20% are impossible to hypnotize. Everyone else lies somewhere in-between. Why do people join Scientology? Watch the movie “The Master.” Your question is actually part of a much larger phenomenon. Cognitive dissonance and double think are not new techniques, but have been used since Babylon and beyond.

Thanks for that. That’s seems to be the best answer. I just have have to accept that we are all mentally wired different. That would explain why I cannot accept what so many others do and vice-versa. I think that you’ve hit the nail on the head.

I don’t have to understand why or how people think so differently. I just have to know and acknowledge that they just do…

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

Autolite wrote:

Pedal, run, row wrote:

You can’t allow anyone to feel something you don’t feel? To find an answer that gives them peace, a peace that you cannot find?

It’s not peace that I’m looking for, at least I don’t thing so. It’s just a question that I can’t solve. Why do so many people believe something to be true when the evidence indicates that it’s just all made up nonsense? I just can’t seem to wrap my head around this.

I think I might have to just settle for the fact that my brain is wired different then most others and leave it at that…

They believe it because that is what they were taught by their parents and society. Not too many residents of Tehran, Iran study all the various world religions rationally, and decide to become Christians, or, say, Zoroastrians. They become muslims like everyone else around them.

If I am born to Amish on a farm in the Midwest, I will likely be Amish; if I leave that sect, I’ll likely join some other Christian denomination, e.g. Mennonites.

In many ways, ideas breed with people. The percentage of Muslims in the world has gone up, not because people make a rational study of religion and choose Islam, but rather, simply because reproduction rates in the West have gone DOWN relative to the East. There are entire countries also, where many people are NOT religious. Relative peace and prosperity are a detriment to most religions, and this contributes to the overall growth of the ‘unaffiliated’ in the West.

Rhino: Humans, their civilization and culture, are dynamic. So that is another reason for reformations — or why religions completely disappear or are adsorbed into other faiths. This happens all the time due to war, famines, migration, etc. In ancient Egypt, when the Ptolemies took over, a process of syncretism occurred — the pantheon of the Greeks was equated to Gods in the pantheon of the Egyptians.

Also, WIDESPREAD monotheism, is a relative late-comer in human history. Even the Jews were not fully monotheistic until the Babylonian captivity.

Ultimately, there is no way to tell which religion or denomination, is True, if any. But you CAN judge them by their works; are they open about what the preacher/Imam is paid? Do they make more than everyone else or have special privileges? How is dissent handled? Is the preacher/Imam/guru/high priest voted in, or do they inherit the position? Is the religion transparent in its finances, issuing annual reports indicating where the money goes and what the clerics are paid? How are leaders who violate the tenets of the religion handled? Cover-ups or fair investigations? THESE are objective questions on which you can judge denominations, or at least their internal management.

[AutoliteParticipant]

FrankOne wrote:

They believe it because that is what they were taught by their parents and society.

Well I think I’ve found my answer but it was in a round-about way. I was asking why Christians believe what they do when there is so much historical evidence telling us that their beliefs are just a man made fabrication.

After reading the replies and responses, I now realize that it doesn’t matter. People are going to believe what they want to be true whether it’s logical or not. Rationality, contrary to what I was thinking, doesn’t matter. The “need to believe” overrides the need for anything to make sense.

It’s what I had always suspected. However, the responses in this thread tell me that that emotion driven “need to believe” is far much stronger than I had ever previously imagined. The bottom line being people will believe what they want to believe no matter how illogical or irrational that belief might be. This is clear to me now.

(On a positive note I now feel much less inclined to challenge or question people’s beliefs. It’s pointless to do so when your only weapons is logic. Logic and rationality are useless when pitted against that “need to believe”)

And many thanks to everyone who took the time to respond and address my questions. It is most sincerely appreciated…

[,Participant 1301]

Like Rock Man sez.

with joy/without hate

[RhinoParticipant 3477]

Ok Autolite forget The Bible for the moment and I would like an honest response to this question. What prove would you need in order for you to know without doubt that God exists? After I get a response from you I will answer your question as best I can.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Rhino wrote:

Ok Autolite forget The Bible for the moment and I would like an honest response to this question. What prove would you need in order for you to know without doubt that God exists? After I get a response from you I will answer your question as best I can.

I would likely settle for a few miracles that would be impossible to explain with our level of knowledge that we have today. But I’m not talking about something being just difficult to explain but I mean absolutely impossible. Something that is well outside our current understanding of natural laws.

If I were to sever a limb for example and the limb regenerated itself would be a start I suppose. God revealing himself would be a bonus also but I would want multiple examples of irrefutable miracles.

But we really don’t need to pursue this any further. I had a similar discussion with another fella a few years ago on another forum and it went absolutely nowhere.

In any case, I am now satisfied that my question(s) have been answered and as I’ve already mentioned, I am now much less inclined to challenge and question people’s religious beliefs.

But there are other unbelievers here on this forum. Perhaps one of them might be interested in engaging you further on this issue of proof…

[Anonymous 42]

Autolite wrote:

Do any of you Christians really believe that all these previous gods were a deliberate attempt to deceive us?

I don’t know about all that but I seriously wonder if heaven is in shambles with the war that happened with Satan and his angles, the same spirits cast down to earth that plague us to this day, spirits like Moloch, the emperor angle of abortion.

Even if heaven is rubble and all tore up, I’d rather spend eternity there than with the Prince of Darkness that surly rules this place we call earth. I want no part of it, I’m content that all my questions will be answered when I meet my maker…

[RhinoParticipant 3477]

Autolite wrote:

Rhino wrote:

Ok Autolite forget The Bible for the moment and I would like an honest response to this question. What prove would you need in order for you to know without doubt that God exists? After I get a response from you I will answer your question as best I can.

I would likely settle for a few miracles that would be impossible to explain with our level of knowledge that we have today. But I’m not talking about something being just difficult to explain but I mean absolutely impossible. Something that is well outside our current understanding of natural laws.

If I were to sever a limb for example and the limb regenerated itself would be a start I suppose. God revealing himself would be a bonus also but I would want multiple examples of irrefutable miracles.

But we really don’t need to pursue this any further. I had a similar discussion with another fella a few years ago on another forum and it went absolutely nowhere.

In any case, I am now satisfied that my question(s) have been answered and as I’ve already mentioned, I am now much less inclined to challenge and question people’s religious beliefs.

But there are other unbelievers here on this forum. Perhaps one of them might be interested in engaging you further on this issue of proof…

That is fine and I respect your decision. Everyone has valid points and I understand why people have come to this conclusion in regards to God but I just want to say this. We are not born into God like most believe. There are Christians, Muslims who are raised by parents to believe in a God but it does not mean they are following the teachings of Christ and The Bible.

Someone who has really found god in their life does not pray for stuff that God can do for them but they ask God “what can I do for you God”. The corruption of man has seeped into the very foundation of organized religion. So when you look at so many people who are morally corrupt and spiritually bankrupt and live hypocritical lives while saying they are the follower of God of course people will question if God ever existed.

So many people who were devout Muslims have found Jesus and their lives changed for the better. They are many stories that you can read and see on Youtube regarding this don’t take my word for it. Of course so many Christians have turned to Islam as well but the difference is most of them are forced to convert and had they conviction in God they would never have contemplated doing so in the first place.

You cannot force the red pill on someone if they don’t want to see it and the same thing can be said about God. It is a spiritual transformation that takes place within yourself once you realize that God has always been there with you. It is not about feelings or facts but a spiritual awakening. You will know when it happens to you it might not be today, or 10 years from now but it will eventually happen if you choose to open your mind and soul to God and believe and ask for his guidance.

Or you can live your life the way you want the choice is yours that is the great thing about God he gave you free will to decide for yourself if your path is without God in it so be it you will still be able to live your life. Your questions will all be answered once you die one way or another and that is the journey you yourself will have to take no one on earth will be able to force God onto you because you have to be the one to find him not the other way around.

[OhnoParticipant 668]

Autolite wrote:

The crux of the problem seems to be that I’m looking for rationality in a religion who’s god is supposedly beyond the comprehension of man.

If you view it as a certain fact that belief in god is irrational you cant gain deeper insights. I wonder how you can be so convinced of yourself. I was an atheist for 30 years and I couldnt imagine that there are so many convincing arguements for belief in god as there are. Just in case it comes accross that Im doing the same just that Im a 100% believer and you are a 100% unbeliever.
Im somewhere between and Im not sure that god exists, but i see a very good chance that he does.

Autolite wrote:

We have the option of believing in him with absolutely zero credible evidence that he actually exists. Religion, AFAIK, is the only thing where this sort of ‘logic’ is accepted by so many…

What about all the fulfilled prophecies? The bible is still on track until today.

Autolite wrote:

I would likely settle for a few miracles that would be impossible to explain with our level of knowledge that we have today. But I’m not talking about something being just difficult to explain but I mean absolutely impossible. Something that is well outside our current understanding of natural laws.

I got the same answer when I asked an atheist. Of course only mircales would convince atheist, thats no suprise but heres the problem…

Rev 13, 12-14

And this beast exercised all the authority of the first beast and caused the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose mortal wound had been healed. And the second beast performed great signs to cause even fire from heaven to come down to earth in the presence of the people. Because of the signs it was given to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived those who dwell on the earth, telling them to make an image to the beast that had been wounded by the sword and yet had lived.…

Autolite wrote:

It seems to be some sort of sick joke to give someone like me a brain that refuses to accept him with the result being an eternity in Hell.

Hell is not biblical.

Where did you get that people who didnt believe in god will be tortured eternally? Thats just heresay and totally illogical that god would do that to anyone who didnt believe in him.
It says something else in the book.

I recommend reading Revelation 20 completely. Thats only 1 page.

Its no wonder that you think that a belief in god is stupid, but thats because the information that you have in your head is,sorry, bulls~~~ and I see no hope for you getting deeper insights into this enormously complex topic that religion is, with your way of thinking that you already know that belief is irrational and unbelief is logical as fixed from the start.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Ohno wrote:

I wonder how you can be so convinced of yourself.

I’ve developed a solid grasp of the obvious. In this f~~~ed-up world it’s really more of a curse than anything else. 🙁

Ohno wrote:

What about all the fulfilled prophecies? The bible is still on track until today.

Ohno wrote:

I recommend reading Revelation 20 completely.

https://www.amazon.ca/Encyclopedia-Claims-Frauds-Hoaxes-Supernatural-ebook/dp/B0065GHTYS/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1492363631&sr=1-2&keywords=james+randi

This book ^^^ has a section on ‘prophecies’. I recommend that you read that part completely. It will help you understand why your bible is bulls~~~…

[OhnoParticipant 668]

Autolite wrote:

This book ^^^ has a section on ‘prophecies’. I recommend that you read that part completely. It will help you understand why your bible is bulls~~~…

I just watched the beginning of a video from him about the bible on youtube and he says Jesus was born in Nazareth???…*cough really?
I understand…

few comments from users…

thung1vor 2 Jahren
James Randi is an idiot… Jesus was born in Bethlehem no Nazareth.. he grew up in Nazareth.. he has lost credibility in the first 25 seconds of this video

plexx365vor 1 Jahr (bearbeitet)
This is nothing but pure horse s~~~! Why would I be surprised since these are nothing but the words of a deranged atheist! What, all of a sudden this psycho is THE BEHOLDER of the absolute truth and that I should trust a single s~~~ of his claims?

I think not.

Akihito007vor 1 Monat
This guy is also a joke because even Princeton Archeologists have proven settlements of the Nazareth region in the Bronze and Iron Age and other archeologists posit that only around 400 people lived there by the time of Jesus and it was a strong Jewish community against Roman rule. Does this guy even know about the Roman scorched earth that they

Akihito007vor 1 Monat
This old fart actually compared Santa Claus to the writing of the NT?!? Those people EXISTED! The most well preserved, closest to actual events and historically accurate group of writings in ancient history and he equates it with Santa Claus?!? Man talk about historically ignorant and intellectual dishonest. Just because he’s a queer and hates God cause he likes screwing guys!

S Hevor 10 Monaten
that old man removed my all my comments I debunked his whole line point by point

[AutoliteParticipant]

Ohno wrote:

What, all of a sudden this psycho is THE BEHOLDER of the absolute truth and that I should trust a single s~~~ of his claims?

Believe what you want. I myself have decided to dial-it down on trying to convince people otherwise. Carry on though. There’s still priceless entertainment value in it for me…

[OhnoParticipant 668]

Autolite wrote:

Believe what you want. I myself have decided to dial-it down on trying to convince people otherwise. Carry on though. There’s still priceless entertainment value in it for me…

So basically you are just trolling and acting like you are curious about christian views when your true intention is trying to convince believers otherwise? Good to know…
Sorry buddy, but I dont have more time to entertain you. Take care!

[AutoliteParticipant]

Ohno wrote:

So basically you are just trolling and acting like you are curious about christian views when your true intention is trying to convince believers otherwise? Good to know…

I think you’ll find the answer to your question in my posts on this thread. You might want to consider reading them. I thought I made myself clear. Did I stutter???

[Author]

Posts