Preachers Leaving The Ministry…

[AutoliteParticipant]

And here we a have a gay preacher leaving his church. What attracts homosexuals to Christianity anyway? Their bible is perfectly clear on homosexuality. Do they think that the bible doesn’t really mean what it precisely and plainly states about homosexuals???

Devout and Out

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gretta Vosper

Vosper continues to preach as an Atheist ‘United Church of Canada’ minister. It is going to be very interesting to see if this progressiveness gains traction. Vosper claims that there might be up to 50% of United Church of Canada preachers who do not believe in a supernatural ‘god’.

As an Atheist, I think that this is something that I will be keeping my eye on. Listening to Atheists like Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennet, Harris and Carrier is interesting enough but now that we have preachers and ministers like Vosper, Campolo, Dewitt, Aus and Barker switching sides and actually ‘coming out’ it puts a whole new spin on Atheism…

[AutoliteParticipant]

bstoff wrote:

Being only “spiritual” doesn’t fully represent how I feel called, and I’m not exactly sure what is calling me, but I know a higher power exists and it has a personal relationship with me.

Psychology already has the answers. Our brains have developed (through evolution) to assign agency as a mechanism for our own survival. Religious belief is just a collateral by-product of that development. Atheists, (using logic and rationality) have been able to just shhit-can that one useless feature of that survival mechanism…

Why We Believe in Gods

And ‘religion’ is really just all in our own heads…

The Brain Creates Religion

[AutoliteParticipant]

sidecar wrote:

Just take a look at the flock they are supposed to tend. Consider that their faith, scriptures, and belief say one thing, but their female (and feminist) congregations and church organizations demand they preach the exact opposite.

Is it any wonder they end up believing nothing?

In any case, ‘Atheist preachers’ like Vosper and Campolo have legitimate and valid positions. Christianity allows believers to interpret what the bible is saying in any way they like and it all gets a pass. Many Christians (and I suspect that most of you here) will tell us that much of the bible is not meant to be believed literally.

Well it now seems that we have preachers who’s ‘interpretation’ of the bible means that we do not have to accept the existence of a supernatural god as being literally true! They’re ‘Christian Atheists’ and they’re still playing by the rules with their disbelief in a god. Any Christian who does not believe every word in the bible to be literally true would be a hypocrite for trying to refute these ‘Christian Atheists’…

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

Autolite wrote:

That actually have ‘Atheist’ preachers now!

A guy down at the motorcycle shop has never, himself, ridden a motorcycle. I suspect it’s the same sort of deal.

It’s like there are people who want to continue to cling to everything that religion has to offer except for the ‘believing in a god’ thing.

Gotta keep the money coming in somehow. Otherwise the priests would have to go out and get real jobs.

What attracts homosexuals to Christianity anyway?

Probably all those choirboys.

In any case, ‘Atheist preachers’ like Vosper and Campolo have legitimate and valid positions.

No more legitimate than that of any other witch doctor or shaman or whatever the fu​ck scientology has.

[AutoliteParticipant]

sidecar wrote:

No more legitimate than that of any other witch doctor or shaman or whatever the fu​ck scientology has.

Teresa MacBain

Yet these Atheist preachers now seem to be coming out of the wood work! Considering that the ones leaving the ministry are forfeiting their jobs and careers, their friends and families, their community connections and their marriages it tells me that there might actually be something to this ‘Atheism’ thing…

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

Autolite wrote:

there might be something to this ‘Atheism’ thing…

Meh.

That sort of atheism is just another religious position, and, as such, is no more or less valid than any other religious position.

[AutoliteParticipant]

More on Teresa MacBain…

[MonkParticipant 16985]

Autolite wrote:

Yet these Atheist preachers now seem to be coming out of the wood work! Considering that the ones leaving the ministry are forfeiting their jobs and careers, their friends and families, their community connections and their marriages it tells me that there might actually be something to this ‘Atheism’ thing …

They are certainly hip to the lucrative lecture circuit.

After setting herself up as the guru of atheism, she ‘returned to faith’ (or ‘progressive Christianity’ as she prefers to call it). Her Damascene moment occurred – very conveniently – hot on the heels of her exposure as an academic fraud.

[Gravel PitParticipant]

sidecar wrote:

atheism is just another religious position,

I think this is a valid argument. I have faced it often.

Because faith/god belief is so systemic to human thinking, its origin is not arrived at logically. So from their view, doubt and atheism is the same sort of leap of faith.

I find it humbling that I as a true atheist, Im often more faithful and Christian than many Christians themselves. Seriously. Im way more tolerant and merciful, having faith in people when others wont. And I seem to know more about their text and virtues than they do!

I count Churchians as real Christians. They actually go to Church afterall, but I get the label too though, many Churches are just corporate emo banquets where women show off their hairdoos and men shine up their Blue shells. So yeah, not all churches are like that but you get it…

At the same time, these chips off the block type Christians who claim no denomination and never attend a service also vary in piety. Some are devout and hardcore REAL Christian. Others are deviated homosexuals or ‘in name only’ types.

~~~~~~

I keep saying it, the moral failure of stern tradcon religion in the 50s lead to all this, particularly the Sexual Repression of the church, stigmatizing nudity. Boys and Girls are brought up being ashamed and lectured about their naughty parts. This created a cultural backlash that was equally radical!

Where is the benchmark for healthy sexuality? Its neither in the Christian arena or in the Pop Left arena. We see overt promiscuity, gender denial, excused homosexuality, excused adultery…

Christianity, which LOVEs pretending to be a pillar of Right Living, is itself the catalyst that ushered in the 70s swingers, the 80s AIDs wave, the 90s pant suits, the 00s pride parades and now the present, gender denial and worse…

It wasnt that those people couldnt adopt Christian living, well I guess it was, but Christianity never had a healthy blueprint for raising sexually mature people anyway. The more it tried, the worse it got.

Christianity failed to define healthy sexuality because Christianity never acknowledged our biology. They wont acknowledge sexual dimorphism or how we are animals. Christianity’s prescription is repression and punishment as a reward for puberty. And it continues through young adulthood…the shaming and obtuse traditions.

We are so much more, potentially, as a species, than to settle for these extremes.

[MonkParticipant 16985]

sidecar wrote:

That sort of atheism is just another religious position, and, as such, is no more or less valid than any other religious position.

Yes.

What you might call ‘real’ atheists simply don’t give a damn – AGTOW if you like. Militant atheists are a cult in their own right.

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Mgtow is sort of a last hour rally cry for Mens Sexuality in a way, a battle cry against the Gyno-Theocracy. lol. Both nonbelivers and the faithful end up here aghast at whats become of women, though we disagree on how women and society turned out this way. We agree on one thing, the Pu$5y Punchbowl has been Spiked.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Monk wrote:

They are certainly hip to the lucrative lecture circuit.

I’m no financial expert but I would guess that if money were her prime motivation she would have just STFU about her Atheism and kept on ‘spreading the gospel’.

In any case, I applaud these preachers who are now finally going public! I want to see more of them ‘come out of the closet’. They’re worth every penny if they can help get the truth out that all religion is bullshhit…

[AutoliteParticipant]

Monk wrote:

Militant atheists are a cult in their own right.

Atheists aren’t being ‘militant’ enough! They’re positively lame and pathetically milquetoast compared to the militant Theists like Ken Ham, William Craig, Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, Ray Comfort, Kent Hovind at al…

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

Mgtow is sort of a last hour rally cry for Mens Sexuality in a way, a battle cry against the Gyno-Theocracy. lol. Both nonbelivers and the faithful end up here aghast at whats become of women, though we disagree on how women and society turned out this way.

I’m actually a little surprised that there aren’t a whole lot more MGTOW Atheists. Once you’ve swallowed the Red Pill of MGTOW the Red Pill of Atheism shouldn’t taste any worse…

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

sidecar wrote:

atheism is just another religious position,

I think this is a valid argument. I have faced it often.

Really? “Just another religious position”? The word ‘Atheism’ just means non-belief in a god. Is non-belief in Zeus, Odin or Thor a “religious position” too???

[Gravel PitParticipant]

sidecar wrote:

A guy down at the motorcycle shop has never, himself, ridden a motorcycle.

Funny enough, that was me for 7 years LOL. Sometimes you know something inside out but dont even know how to drive it (in theory yes I can ride fine and I do now, but that was not always the case).

Autolite wrote:

Really? “Just another religious position”?

From THEIR point of view, atheism is a faith based proposition. THEIR point of view, not ours bro. In our view, there shouldnt even be a word called atheist, just as there is no word for being a non-astrologer or non-vegan. The absence of belief in something unseen shouldnt even have a label.

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

surprised that there aren’t a whole lot more MGTOW Atheists.

You have to remember a few things about HOW this whole MGTOW thing came about — and WHAT it actually is. It really doesnt have much to do with faith or politics. I made a big fuss about atheism when I first came to this website in 2015 (a diff screen name) saying stuff like, “you cant go your own way when you’re going Jesus’ way.” But just as calls for Celibacy didnt go over well here (tried that too), neither did fussing about Christian woo woo. The thing is, the acronym itself (mgtow) was born of men agreeing to disagree while arguing in divorce chatrooms on the early internet, that is where this thing came from. And there you have it, the only dogma in this cult, is a fierce adherence to the YOUR OWN WAY part. LOL. Uniform disunity!

It must be said that the Manosphere as a whole is, say, 90% Men’s Rights Activists and Traditional Conservatives (MRAs and Tradcons) who do not identify with MGTOW. And there is nothing wrong with that, but in their camp, you’re going to have a bunch of theists. Is it really that surprising, its not unlike the General Population, MRAs and TradCons are Christians. They are waiting for women to find Jesus. They are waiting for Congress to make marriage “safe” again. They think Church makes women into NAWALTs. We know better… and it doesnt necessarily require giving up your faith.

Now, speaking of MGTOW specifically. We’re cerebral rebels. We’re not exactly the Manosphere’s pride and glory. We’re “fringe” and have always been booed and held in low esteem by the MRAs and Tradcons. There are innumerable examples of this in the last 9 years.

The Men who got caught in the MGTOW meme (2012-2018) are men aged 25-65 who have been burned too many times by women. You know the diversity here, some of us were divorced, some hardly have experience with women at all. But we all GET IT, we understand what the MRAs dont! That relationships with women today are a lost cause.

Here is the thing Autolite. Ask men like Hermit, Monk, Collin and other believers here, why they love MGTOW but still hold steadfast to their faith. I think the answer you will get is that there is TONS of real life experience and physical proof that women are sh!theads … but you cant say that about Faith in God which is not defeated, atleast not in the same way! God and Faith did not steal their kids and half their bank account. Their continued faith does not put them in immediate risk of a rape accusation or 18 years of child support. So as long as their faith is not causing riff-raff for them personally, they tend to keep that old shovel around for nostalgic reasons. If it aint broke, dont fix it is THEIR attitude.

Nostalgia.

FAITH aint exactly very useful beyond being a comforting companion who stays silent all the time.
These guys persist with it because it hasnt failed them yet, and never will. Faith never fails, that is why it survives.
Its invincible to reason because faith is an enduring emotion built for survival. In many ways, FAITH is the only thing that got them through their trouble with c~~~s. The only reliable thing beyond their own two hands.

Its taken me ALL six years of being SOBER, to finally stop resenting faith. To stop mocking it and understand it objectively and to understand WHY people do it. Faith is PURE feeling and Instinct bro. Its akin to other primal urges and honestly isnt half bad at all. The issues we have with faith are chalked up to the Memeplexes they end up creating, the Holy Texts, the Pogroms, the 9/11s, the Inquisitions, the stifling of science. Those are the cancerous growths that develop out of base instincts like faith.

But Id argue that Faith is inseparable from the human spirit. We can treat it, not cure it.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

From THEIR point of view, atheism is a faith based proposition. THEIR point of view, not ours bro. In our view, there shouldnt even be a word called atheist, just as there is no word for being a non-astrologer or non-vegan. The absence of belief in something unseen shouldnt even have a label.

Exactly! Atheism is no more “faith based” than a non-belief in Santa Claus or a non-belief in Leprechauns. Calling it a ‘belief’ or a religion is a just cheap shot. Like that saying goes; “Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour”…

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

Here is the thing Autolite. Ask men like Hermit, Monk, Collin and other believers here, why they love MGTOW but still hold steadfast to their faith.

I see both MGTOW and Atheism as just being the acknowledgement of reality. They are both the recognition and acceptance of the way things really are. I don’t really understand how one viewpoint can be accepted and the other rejected by the same person…

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