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  • #79501
    ArchGHOW
    ArchGHOW
    Participant

    Hello,

    I’m ArchGHOW and I’ll keep it at that for now. I’m thankful for you all for this site and this community and I’d like to introduce myself.

    I’m currently in a state of transition and trying to work on my character and personal problems but from what I believe I will be able to find help and support here. Yes, I understand that most of the men who join are seeking guidance and help and I’ll do what I can based on my experiences to help avoid some of the pitfalls and problems that may come about from going your own way and dealing with the injustice many have had to go through. Learn from my mistakes.

    Having said that, I’m also looking for help and support. I’m angry a lot and because of that I’ve specifically started a youtube channel as an audio/video diary/journal for myself and anyone else that wants to listen/watch. I find it’s easier to speak than type when there is a lot to say. I also find it easier to vent or explain in words and honestly suggest more men on here record audio journals for themselves to keep track of what has been happening in their lives, and also so they can look back and see if things have changed for the better and be more objective about what has been happening in their lives.

    I don’t believe I’m going to be able to help anyone until I help myself but I’m going to do my best to try – I think helping others will help me as well. My anger isn’t from just from the blinders from my eyes being opened wider to let me see more in my life and what’s been happening it’s also from many other things. I tend to ramble, please bear with me.

    Thank you for this community; I wish everyone here the best. I want to make it clear why I’m here: I’m here to finally do something, to join a community that might understand me, to help and to be helped. Going your own way isn’t easy as most who have been doing so know, even if they didn’t realise it at the time.

    This is not a plug for views but this is what I’m planning to do; research, learning and sharing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA5brXbQ8I8

    I hope to be of some use, welcome new members and wish everyone happiness and fulfillment.

    Soldier-Medic
    Soldier-Medic
    Participant

    I see and experience this often as well. The church must be more supportive of those who desire to be single and not use the Bible and scripture to shame those who have no desire to deal with women. The frustration and anger within me has subsided and I finally see eternal singlehood as a gift from God and not a curse to be shamed by. The willingness to perform an open and honest reflection of what God actually has planned for your life, rather than pigeonhole Him into your plans for naive dreams of bliss and happiness (be it marital or otherwise) is one of the many lessons MGTOW has taught me and more videos like yours need to address spirituality and bachelorhood. Less focus on “spinning plates” and taking advantage of perpetual female folly and immaturity and more on spiritual and mental growth for seeing the world as it really is. Only then can one avoid the nonsense this fallen world has to offer.

    What you have said her resonates with me.  Thank you for your words.

    "I asked you a question. I didn't ask you to repeat what the voices in you head are telling you" ~ Me. ........Yes I'm still angry.

    Fermat
    Fermat
    Participant

    I see and experience this often as well. The church must be more supportive of those who desire to be single and not use the Bible and scripture to shame those who have no desire to deal with women. The frustration and anger within me has subsided and I finally see eternal singlehood as a gift from God and not a curse to be shamed by. The willingness to perform an open and honest reflection of what God actually has planned for your life, rather than pigeonhole Him into your plans for naive dreams of bliss and happiness (be it marital or otherwise) is one of the many lessons MGTOW has taught me and more videos like yours need to address spirituality and bachelorhood. Less focus on “spinning plates” and taking advantage of perpetual female folly and immaturity and more on spiritual and mental growth for seeing the world as it really is. Only then can one avoid the nonsense this fallen world has to offer.

    I have discovered a truly remarkable list of reasons why women are not necessary for a happy life, but alas this margin is too small to contain it.

    #79080
    Solid Snake
    Solid Snake
    Participant

    Expelled under new policy, ex-Amherst College student files suit

    A lawsuit against Amherst College claims the plaintiff was falsely accused of rape, not given a fair investigation by the college, and denied justice

    n December 2013, Amherst College imposed its first major sanction under a new get-tough sexual misconduct policy, expelling a 21-year-old senior after a disciplinary board concluded that he had forced a female classmate to perform oral sex during an alcohol-infused encounter nearly two years earlier.

    In April 2014, however, the expelled student presented the college with new evidence — a series of text messages the woman sent to two other male students immediately after the alleged rape, according to a lawsuit. To one, a dorm counselor, she described the sexual encounter in language that suggested it was consensual and she wrote, “It’s pretty obvi [obvious] I wasn’t an innocent bystander.’’

    To the other student, she sent text messages inviting him over later that same night to “entertain” her — an invitation that resulted in a second sexual encounter, according to text messages and an affidavit by the male student. The accuser testified during the disciplinary hearing that she had texted a friend to come over after the alleged attack.

    In the 13 months since the expelled student obtained the texts and gave them to college officials, it appears Amherst has taken no public steps to revisit its decision to expel the student. On Friday, his lawyer, Max D. Stern, filed a lawsuit in US District Court in Springfield, arguing that the college is guilty of a miscarriage of justice against his client, who is identified as “John Doe.’’

    In the weeks after he was expelled and ordered to leave campus, Doe was alerted to the existence of the text messages and obtained copies of both sets of texts with the help of friends, according to Stern. The text messages are included in the lawsuit.

    Citing the text messages, Stern charged in his lawsuit that Amherst’s investigation of the episode by an outside lawyer was “grossly inadequate,’’ overlooking signs that Stern says would have cleared his client. What’s more, the lawsuit also asserts that the action taken against John Doe, who is Asian-American, is part of a pattern since 2013 in which the college has sanctioned only “male students of color’’ for sexual misconduct.

    Pete Mackey, the Amherst College spokesman, said in a statement that the college’s disciplinary process is consistent with federal requirements and is fair to all parties.

    “That process was followed in this case,” he said.

    “We are confident that the process the college followed was appropriate and that the court will conclude that the College’s process was fair,’’ Mackey said.

    His statement did not address a question from the Globe about whether the college is still confident that the decision was right. He did, however, say that the charge that only male students of color have been disciplined is “incorrect.”

    Doe’s accuser, who is identified in the lawsuit by the pseudonym Sandra Jones, did not respond to requests for comment.

    The lawsuit is also likely to further fuel an ongoing debate about the tough new standards on sexual assault adopted by colleges and universities under federal government pressure, standards that many legal scholars believe violate the rights of those accused of sexual misconduct.

    Under the standard ordered by the US Department of Education, Doe was judged guilty under a “preponderance of the evidence,’’ meaning the three-member disciplinary board — made up of officials from neighboring colleges — found it more likely than not that the allegation was true, said the letter to Doe expelling him. In the past, Amherst and other colleges had used a tougher standard of proof — clear and convincing evidence of guilt.

    Meanwhile, the expelled student is in academic and professional limbo. His transcript, which he would need to finish his degree or get a higher position, says he was expelled for disciplinary reasons, according to the lawsuit.

    Now 22, he was looking forward to a career that probably would have been enhanced by a degree from one of the country’s most prestigious liberal arts colleges

    For now, he said in an interview, he works at a small company where he started as an intern last year before getting his first promotion.

    His superiors wonder why he did not finish college. And he said he is so embarrassed about what happened that he stays home at night, and is so ashamed of being seen by former classmates that he wears sunglasses when riding the subway.

    He has a teenage brother. “I had wanted to be a good role model for him, so this is so disappointing,” he said, as his eyes filled with tears. His father knows he was expelled, but not why.

    He asked that he not be identified. Though he wants his name cleared, he said he does not want notice of the case to follow him on Google for life. As for his accuser, it is the Globe’s policy not to identify alleged victims of sexual assault unless they decide otherwise.

    The sexual encounter that is now in dispute occurred in the early morning of Feb. 5, 2012, months before Amherst became prominently ensnared in a national maelstrom over insensitivity to women students who had been sexually assaulted.

    In October 2012, a former student, Angie Epifano, published a harrowing account of how Amherst had her involuntarily committed to a psychiatric facility after she resisted pleas by Amherst’s sexual assault counselor to forget about her rape and forgive her alleged assailant. In 2011, Amherst was one of 55 colleges and universities threatened with the loss of federal funds unless they moved quickly to investigate and punish sexual abusers.
    <p id=”U81223586360kWF” style=”letter-spacing: -30;”>With alacrity, Amherst shifted gears: It forced out the sexual assault counselor. It adopted tough new guidelines governing student behavior and the reporting of sexual misconduct. And it implemented a new disciplinary process designed to deal expeditiously and forcefully with sexual misconduct, in part by adopting the “preponderance of the evidence’’ standard. Doe was the first Amherst student tried under that standard.</p>
    The disputed sexual encounter began late on a Friday night, when Jones, the accuser, and Doe were sophomores. He had been dating her roommate, who was out of town, for a month.

    According to accounts by the accuser and witnesses given to Allyson Kurker, the outside investigator brought in by Amherst, Doe arrived in a fourth-floor dormitory lounge where several friends had gathered. He was very drunk. She was tipsy.

    Within minutes, they were “making out’’ in front of the others, and then left and went to her dorm room.

    In her initial written complaint, Jones said that in the dorm room, the entire encounter was forcible. But in her interview with Kurker and during the hearing, she said the oral sex was initially consensual; then, after Doe boasted about “hooking up” with both her and her roommate, she told him to stop. He refused to do so, she said, according to the hearing transcript.

    In his defense, Doe said he was not the kind of person who would do such a thing. But he told the disciplinary board he was so drunk that night he had no memory of the encounter.

    During the 2013 hearing, Jones’s roommate testified that she had learned Jones had exchanged text messages with a resident dorm counselor just after the alleged rape. But the school made no effort to contact the counselor or obtain the texts, according to the hearing record.

    When a hearing officer asked Jones about those texts, she replied: “I didn’t want to address what had happened to me and I was in no position yet to accept that it had been rape. So in my text messaging [to counselor] I only said things about the hook-up as if it had been consensual.”

    In the lawsuit, Stern argues that the texts contain evidence that make it clear the sexual encounter with Doe was consensual and initiated by Jones; that she deliberately misled the college’s investigator and the hearing board; that she was motivated to make the allegations so her roommate would not blame her for what happened; and that Doe, who was incapacitated that night, is the real victim in the case.

    In the texts, which extend over several hours, Jones and the dorm counselor exchanged the following messages:

    Jones: “Ohmygod, I jus[sic] did something so [expletive] stupid.”

    Counselor: “What did you do?”

    Jones responded that she had sex with Doe. Then she expressed concern that her roommate would find out, noting that her roommate’s friends had witnessed the start of the encounter.

    The counselor’s recommendation was to blame Doe for the encounter. Her reply: “But I mean [roommate] knows me it’s pretty obvi I wasn’t an innocent bystander.’’

    As she was texting with the counselor, Jones was also texting another male classmate to come to her room: “I mean I happen to have my room to myself this weekend if you wanted to come over and entertain me.”

    Hours later, Jones had another text exchange with the counselor that indicated she and that classmate had sex after hours of conversation.

    In an affidavit he signed in April 2014, the classmate, who turned over his text messages to Doe early last year, said he had sex that February night with Jones, who was friendly and flirtatious, and did not appear “anxious, stressed, depressed or otherwise in distress.’’

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/29/amherst/4t6JtKmaz7vlYSrQk5NDyJ/story.html

    Then also this locally:

    Innocent boy’s jail nightmare

    A 16-YEAR-OLD boy who was acquitted on Friday night of multiple rape was locked up for almost a year awaiting trial.  Audio: Solicitor Laura Timpano discusses this case with 6PR’s Millsy and Tony Mac

    Patrick Waring, then a 15-year-old Catholic college student, was dragged out of bed by police a year ago and refused bail on nothing but the say-so of a lying 17-year-old girl who cried rape.

    Just before the trial started, the girl admitted lying about her sex life the whole time. She had insisted she was a virgin.

    DNA tests excluded Patrick from her claims of rape.

    She finally admitted she had had sex with a man at the back of a cinema the same afternoon, two hours before claiming Patrick raped her at Joondalup’s Central Park after following her from the railway station on March 30 last year.

    She also admitted to having been in a sexual relationship with her boyfriend at the time.

    Patrick was originally denied bail when a police officer told the Children’s Court that Patrick had phoned the girl and threatened her — a fact the police later admitted was wrong.

    Patrick’s father, Terry Waring, said his family had been torn apart for a year. His and his wife’s belief in the justice system had been shattered.

    “Shoddy work, cruelty and seeming vindictiveness cost us our house, financial security and a lifetime of savings for a three-week trial,” he said.

    “The emotional cost to the family has been incalculable. Personally, I have not cried as much since my brother was killed in Vietnam.”

    The girl’s new story included being raped by two different men in two hours. She said the cinema sex with a 20-year-old, who she had met on the internet, was rape, but she didn’t want him charged because it might affect her compensation claim.

    The girl had previously lied to interviewing officers, the Sexual Assault Resource Centre doctor who examined her and to prosecutor Amanda Forrester.

    Director of Public Prosecutions Robert C~~~ dropped his opposition to bail and Patrick was allowed home on strict conditions on the eve of his trial, but Mr C~~~ pressed ahead with a three-week trial in the District Court.

    Yesterday, while Patrick was enjoying his first day of complete freedom for exactly a year, his family was still suffering from the trauma.

    “The accusations came out of left field,” Mr Waring said.

    “We are a very close family and Patrick had never been involved in anything.

    “The biggest issue we had with him before was that he cycled to school without waiting for his mother to see him across a main road, and he was grounded for two weeks.”

    The Warings had to re-mortgage their house in Beldon to pay for the trial and they moved to Canning Vale to be close to the Banksia Hill Juvenile Detention Centre so they could visit Patrick daily.

    Patrick’s mother, Marie, resigned her nursing job at Joondalup Health Campus and his father took leave from the commonwealth public service to cope with the trauma.

    “It’s the finish of school for Patrick,” Mr Waring said.

    “He’s lost virtually all of Year 11 and the start of Year 12 and he’s had to grow up very fast. He lost his youth in there.

    “We didn’t tell anyone at school what had happened to him. He just disappeared. And now we couldn’t send him back there to face the ramifications of this.”

    Patrick’s 24-year-old brother, Michael, also lost a year of study for his degree in computer science and information systems because of the ordeal.

    His 25-year-old sister Danielle has changed her plans to study civil law and is studying criminal law at Notre Dame University.

    Patrick was charged while his shocked parents were still making their dash back to Perth from a Walpole holiday and before DNA results were obtained.

    It took PathWest seven months to provide the results.

    It was only when defence counsel Tom Percy QC and Jonathan Davies consulted DNA expert
    Brian McDonald to interpret those results that another male’s DNA, not Patrick’s, was found in the girl’s underwear and in her mouth. Only then did she admit her lies.

    Mr Percy told the court that the case was dangerous and based on the lies of a complainant who was bizarre. In his closing address, he told the jury that the girl’s evidence was riddled with inconsistencies, was most implausible and totally dishonest.

    He said she had lied to people in positions of authority on the night and deliberately lied for a long time, her lies only discovered last month.

    Ms Forrester told the jury in her opening address for the prosecution that the girl’s account would be corroborated in each and every way by the independent evidence gathered by police.

    But nothing to substantiate the girl’s claims was found during a forensic check of the Joondalup park on the night and the SARC doctor found no evidence of sexual assault.

    SARC’s Dr Catherine Nixon, who told the court the girl was clear, composed and cogent on the night, agreed on cross-examination that abrasions on her back could have been caused by carpet burns.

    PathWest biologist Janine Bennett said in cross-examination that the prosecution’s claim of a two billion-to-one likelihood of DNA on Patrick’s jeans being a mix of the girl’s and Patrick’s, was not valid if you allowed for the possibility of a third person being involved.

    Mr Percy said it was the only calculation PathWest did on the samples and it ignored the possibility of a third contributor found by Dr McDonald.

    After a three-week trial before Judge Philip Eaton, the jury found Patrick not guilty of four counts of aggravated sexual penetration without consent, one count of deprivation of liberty and one count of aggravated indecent assault.

    Mr C~~~ defended continuing with the trial, saying there had been some corroboration of the girl’s story by other witnesses and the jury’s 10-hour deliberation supported the view that there were serious issues to consider.

    Patrick admitted in court that he had lied about not ever speaking to the girl. He acknowledged in late November that he had had some innocent, non-sexual social contact with the girl on March 30.

    He told the court that after seeing the girl at Joondalup train station and talking to her for a while at Central Park, he exchanged phone numbers with her and went home.

    In court, police conceded they had not followed best practice in the case.

    Various officers said that the Central Park scene was left unguarded from 1.25am on the night, it was a week before it was searched, and the same officers had visited the homes of the girl and the accused which allowed for contamination of evidence.

    The male DNA found in the girl’s underwear was not identified by PathWest as not belonging to Patrick because it was excluded under PathWest’s reporting levels.

    The trial in the District Court cost taxpayers about $90,000 and has left Mr Waring demanding answers to the failings in the justice system, citing flaws in the police investigation, delays in PathWest testing and its interpretation levels.

    http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/innocent-boys-jail-nightmare/story-e6frg12c-1111113259916

    He did an AMA on reddit which is worth a read about his experience in jail for that year where he got the s~~~ beat out of him regularily:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/2qm8o8/i_am_the_15yo_guy_who_was_falsely_accused_of_rape/

    Then this on the other hand:

    Intern’s $23 million payday after being slut-shamed by Wall Street CEO

    A WOLF of Wall Street has to cough up $23 million for sexually harassing and then trashing online his pretty Swedish underling, a Manhattan jury has ruled.

    Plaintiff Hanna Bouveng, 25, scored the massive payday after filing suit against her married former boss, Benjamin Wey, the 43-year-old CEO of New York Global Group.

    The big award came from punitive damages, with the federal jury handing Bouveng a total of $20 million for defamation that included Wey smearing her on his Webzine after their breakup and emailing her father a vicious note when he found another man in her bed.

    Bouveng also landed $650,000 in compensatory damages for sexual harassment that ranged from Wey openly panting over her at the office to pressuring her to sleep with him. When she finally fell into bed with him, he lasted just 2 minutes, she said.

    Jurors awarded Bouveng another $1.95 million to compensate her for Wey’s defamation.

    The four-man, four-woman jury was upset by the trial’s intense and graphic testimony.

    “It was a pretty disturbing trial. I think everybody was troubled by the nature of the case,” said the jury foreman.

    A female juror bashed Wey for defaming Bouveng.

    “We hope it will make companies and individuals think twice before personally defaming someone else,” the female juror said of their award.

    “We felt she was hurt in everything that came out on social media and in the media.”

    Asked whether she would spend a night in a hotel room with Wey — as Bouveng testified she was pressured into doing on multiple business trips — the juror smirked and said, “No comment!”

    Bouveng’s suit had sought a total of over $1 billion.

    The jury awarded Bouveng $US1 million for the retaliation she suffered after she called it quits with Wey and he fired her. And then they deliberated several more hours over punitive damages before awarding the final $20​ million.

    “I saw a 6-foot-tall homeless black man named James lying on her bed. The man was totally naked, dirty, totally drunk and perhaps on illegal drugs,” Wey wrote to Bouveng’s father, Nils Sundqvist, in one e-mail entered into evidence.

    The pretty brunette gave a small smile to her lawyers as the initial verdict was read.

    Also in court was the other man she’d been in bed with, James Chauvet — a sharp-dressed club promoter. The pair shared a long hug after the verdict.

    “I think it was a good verdict,’’ Chauvet later said.

    Wey, who had been in court every day for the trial with his wife, was not in the courtroom.

    His lawyer, Glenn Colton, declined comment.

    One of Bouveng’s lawyers, David Ratner, bashed Wey for not showing up to hear the verdict.

    “He’s got b~~~~ when he’s hiding behind his stupid magazine, but when it comes to facing the jurors, he doesn’t show up,” Ratner said.

    “The jury said yes, she was sexually harassed, yes, she suffered retaliation, yes, she suffered defamation — and they rejected everything Wey had to say,’’ the lawyer said. “She’s ecstatic, and we are very, very pleased.”

    http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/interns-23-million-payday-after-being-slut-shamed-by-wall-street-ceo/story-fnkgbb6w-1227421132790

    The kid who spent a year in jail didn’t even get an apology, let alone compensation because the Police didn’t want to admit they f~~~ed up badly as well as his treatment inside jail and even during the trial with it being heavily biased towards the supposed ‘victim’ favour with evidence submitted (he covers the bias in his AMA), or the woman who raped the passed out dude gets off scott free.

    Makes my f~~~ing blood BOIL, what f~~~ing equality? Last time I checked EQUALITY MEANT EQUAL!

    They want to be ‘more equal’ than men.

    #77029
    Keymaster
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    Cipher crafts some very eloquent deconstructions.

    The “shaming tactics” page has been getting some VERY heavy attention lately. I redid the page myself late last night and am quite blown away by this coincidental mention. It was plain on white, but always wanted to do a more visually appealing version. This time wanted to make more sectioned/separated layout with support images (still to come) …. including some REAL-world tactical, effective, and humorous responses to INSTANTLY shut them up on the spot. Tried and tested in the field. Will be adding when we can.

    It was the very first post ever added to MGTOW.com (post ID # 1) – and it was done so for good reason. It must be fully understood, identified in everyday conversations and a MGTOW should be armed and prepared for it. And here we are with a perfect example of why. I also have gone much further into them (like the “you can’t get laid” argument) and have pulled apart that s~~~ virtually destroy anyone who uses it – male or female. The “MGTOW can’t get laid” argument will be getting it’s own feature and that will finally put an end to that horses~~~ permanently. They will never try it again.

    Fortunately several ROK commenters below the anti-MGTOW article said “WTF did I just read” and didn’t let them get away with it. And they beat us to it.

    •••••

    In regards to Fatt Worbley…. the insult to MGTOW that I personal zero-ed in on was the accusation that “Robb Fedders (from the hugely dated NO MA’AM blog) is shuddering at what MGTOW has become”. This was as much of a failure as all his other pathetic attempts and I can prove it.

    I contacted him personally in 2011 when we first conceptualized a Men’s interest site exactly like this one in the best interests of MGTOW. This is 3 years before we opened here. He graciously replied VERY positively and openly. I spoke of our intent , or skill level, the business we are in, and personally asked him for permission……. which he very graciously granted with FULL permission to repackage, republish, re-present and even re-write it as we / I saw fit if it meant getting it out there. And Ho Boy have we done that. Virtually zero edits were made to 3 original articles by him to preserve the work exactly as originally intended and worded. They remain unchanged, although we will go back and have plans to modify (elaborate) on one of them.

    Fatt Worbley will not be interested in knowing this, and he sure as s~~~ wouldn’t admit we have the kind of integrity and consistency of values he will never aspire to (or be capable of) having.

    I passed on the ROK drama , our forum thread, the Forney article etc. to others including one friend who took a close look. It was obvious to all of them that ROK may be seeing MGTOW making LEAPS ahead and carving a respectable & attractive identity (and presence in the Manosphere) beyond what they are willing to accept. “The image” of MGTOW is not one of a bunch of basement dwelling losers anymore, and they know it.

    If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.
    Russky
    Russky
    Participant

    Interesting discussion.

    Shaming implies judging. Who am I to judge? Only God can judge them.
    I am just slowly shaking my head in disbelief. But I don’t blame them. The’re the victims of their nature multiplied by social programming – deliberate or accidental. I simply stay away.

    As far as calling sluts “sluts”, Snoop Dogg said it the best:

    So they blamin’ me, sayin’ this my talk
    to some women as hoes, like it’s my fault
    Damn they lost, man they just don’t know
    That a bitch is a bitch, and a hoe is a hoe
    Let them heaters c~~~ and let them leaders talk
    I’m gon’ be smokin’ dank, livin’ like a boss

    P.S.: One more thing – I remembered a story. Here it goes.

    A slut is on an ocean liner going somewhere, when suddenly ship hits something and starts to sink.
    She falls on her knees with a prayer: “Dear God, I know I’ve been bad – I lied and cheated all my life, and maybe I deserve this; but what about all the other passengers on this ship? All these innocent souls. What did they do wrong? How can you be so cruel to them? Please save us?”
    Skies open up and a voice says: “Hah! NO! You’re not getting out of this one. I’ve been gathering all you sluts together on one ship for many years now – and finally my plans came to fruition – all of you bitches are going down! Bwa-ha-ha”

    proud carrier of the 'why?' chromosome

    Huevon
    Huevon
    Participant

     

    @BadKan when I read your posts, I finally understand, why KeyMaster got me wrong too. You guys don’t get, what I’m trying to say, and maybe I should have articulated it more precisely. In my thoughts I differentiate between Instincts+feelings, that where developed throughout evolution, and the System we live in today. Our biological evolution is way behind the evolution of the system we live in. And this basically creates all the mess that we are in. And you are explaining that system, and how everything goes wrong.

     

    Just what is the solution?

     

    I feel that we men are on the loosing end in relationships as well. I am not trying to justify womens behavior, nor am I speaking for their interest. At this point I give a flying f~~~ about women’s interest. I speak for myself. that’s all.

     

    And maybe the fact that I speak for myself is the explanation why I like sluts. I do belong to the 20% who get pussy. I just wasn’t aware that there are 80% who don’t. It’s just consequent, that those 80% don’t provide any resources to those women. Why should they? I wouldn’t either. And it’s quite natural that those 80% wish back the times where a woman gave monogamy in exchange for a male provider.

     

    And if you are willing to go out of your way just to get pussy, like throwing other men under the bus by trying to get them to lower their standards so you can have your fix, then you are not a Mgtow either.

     

    Well you pinpointed it. I sacrificed my way in my last relationship. When I realized that, I initiated a breakup.

     

    Hell, this whole idea is assuming that the ONLY reason a MAN would get together with a WOMAN is because of sex.

     

    Actually, I do believe that relationships between men and women are all about reproduction. So that would be an extension of the term “sex”. In that context I would actually agree.

     

    If women want to walk beside me, they are welcome, But I am NOT dragging their asses anymore.

     

    I just don’t believe that women do that. You know what I experienced? What I see? Here in posts and in relationships around me? With my ex girls? Basically all I see is that Children exploit the resources of a woman, and the woman exploits the resources of a man. To do so, women separate us from family and friends. Thus making us emotionally addicted. They make us be monogamous, to get us sexually addicted. And when they got us, they eat us up like a praying mathis. To feed their children. They often do that unconsciously, so I don’t blame em. Just I don’t expect them to walk beside me anymore.

     

    After all, it appears to me that many MGTOWs blame sluts, because they have not lost faith in love.

     

    That makes me kinda jealous, because I miss that thrill. But I don’t see any way back.

     

    I swallowed my own red pill.

     

    Sidecar
    sidecar
    Participant

    patriarchy

    “Patriarchy” is a myth. Always has been. It’s a boogieman cooked up by feminists to excuse their greed and excess. Outside the context of a family the word doesn’t even make any sense.

    Gynocentrism has always been the reality, not this mythical “patriarchy”. Because in a world of high mortality, societies that didn’t protect and serve their bottlenecks to procreation went extinct in the competition against societies that did. Fortunately we are living in an age where mortality is low and there are billions upon billions of people on the planet, so the relative value of any woman as breeding stock is now nil. So it’s not a matter of collapsing matriarchy or re-establishing “patriarchy”, but rather that for the first time EVER we are finally able to abandon gynocentrism. And women hate that.

    Feminism is the political movement dedicated to preserving and extending the benefits of gynocentrism for women in the face of gynocentrism’s every increasing irrelevancy. “Patriarchy” is the dodge they’re whipped up to cover that fact. That their greed to extend their privilege and perks will eventually collapse society is of no concern to them, because they know once society collapses, mortality will increase and gynocentrism will re-assert itself, putting women back on the pedestal as valuable breeders. And they’ll probably blame men for it anyway.

    #76432
    LunaticReason
    LunaticReason
    Participant

    Just warning if anyone wants to skip this post, I am just making a personal rant to blow off steam but also hopefully see some support within the manosphere because I can’t seem to find it in the real world.

    So here is the situation.

    A few years ago I had been unfriended by some girl I knew whom I thought was a friend, actually she gave me the cold shoulder well before this. Yes I know big deal! Move on because girls aren’t worth crying over.  However it bugged me because I could not think of anything that I did to warrant such mistreatment. In fact during my blue pill days I had helped this girl at the cost of my masculinity.  I was upset by this and felt that I had least been old some explanation.  I was left wondering had I wronged a friend, am I not allowed to rectify any ill feelings that one may have of me? I finally got a response that I apparently was getting on her nerves with my hellos.  I  simply messaged twice every three years with a 5 month bridge between months and all it would have required of her was a response telling me she didn’t want to chat.

    Anyways this isn’t what is bugging me but rather when I shared it with friends.

    I had one male friend show his loyalty by saying some offhanded mean things, and I liked that support and because I did so some of my other female “friends”. Chimed in to admonish my behavior telling me to take a higher ground.  I spend so much time being the nice guy am I not allowed to be nasty once in awhile? Why in the hell are they defending someone they didn’t even know, instead of supporting me?

    In retrospect I know exactly why I was ignored and unfriended and it had nothing to do with my hellos but rather my SML I had been the nice guy and in turn was nothing but the typical chump that gets walked over by broads like her and the irony is that she had just escaped from an abusive relationship with a guy that beat her. Someone like myself isn’t worth speaking to and someone like that was worth dating?

    I f~~~ing hate bitches and I am trying so hard not to weigh my own value through them and yet it makes me feel so worthless inside.

     

    Toad
    Toad
    Participant

    i always saw japan as the mirror where all should look at. i know that they do a lot of mistakes, but as i always said: less than us (speaking about Spain, but it can spread a lot of other places).

    As they don’t have really much idea of what should be nowadays, abandoning their cultural heritage to the “modern life” that offers occidental fashion way of life…they must deal with the maintenance of a culture full of respect, honor, moral codes , education, and other strong behaviors that they had in the past, with the “freedom” that comes from outside their frontiers…

    Fun fact. i sometimes blame Japan because when i was a teen i saw a lot of anime series and there always have the “heroe” that wins the true love of a beatiful, virginal and pure heart girl… and i believed it

    the honorable man , even the mangina put in the friendzone , if he make a strong effort showing his real courage finally conquered the heart of a good woman…

    So, when i see that the japaneses are the first who abandon the plantation i’m very proud of them… They see the reality and they decided to leave with no one blames and trying to shame them…

    Why? because japanese people have respect each other: you can take a walk with a shoe and no one blinks, you can dress as an anime character and no one gives a damn thing, so…if someone decided to become a MGTOW they can do it without even think about talk about it openly…

    And another sign of honor… in my country, the new generations are no more spaniards…they are all the sons of the inmigrants, and the entire blood os my people will be erased in a few year because they don’t care about the consecuences of the feminine laws, and they have kids as a sport because they gain subventions payed from the money of my taxes…

    Japan people with their strong restrictions in inmigrations laws will be disappear, aswell… but they chose doing it with honor rather than swap her race with other in order to survive as a cheaper copy of themselves…

    I raise my glass for them…as i always do…

    #75605
    Eng_87
    eng_87
    Participant

    Thanks for the advice two step – I’ve got tomorrow of for medical reasons (the usual yearly check up for men + a blood test), will be a good time to clean up my place, get my head straight, hit the gym and get my mind right.

    Already started planning the trip I’ve always wanted to do next year – USA coast to coast – hitting all the national parks and major trails for some wicked camping and hiking. Finally have the freedom to do it without worrying about hotels, and child friendly trails etc.

     

     

    Huevon
    Huevon
    Participant

    Hi Guys,

    after reading here quietly every once in a while for a few weeks now, finally I feel like engaging in discussions. So before I do so I’d like to introduce myself.

    I’m a 36 years old German. I studied economics and computer science, and have been working as an IT-consultant ever since. Having lived abrought in the US and Latin America as well as having backpacked throughout SE-Asia, I have gotten some cultural understanding – also about women and relationships. Wherever I went, I did get envolved with women. At the beginning, my interactions were driven by instinct, later I built my own theories which I built on what I like to call “evolutionary psychology”. Basically I ended up with a lot of theories that are basis of “games-theories” which PUAs use.

    Still I kept dating girls in the form of fixed relationships, which I found the most comfortable way for me. Also from an emotional point of view. At this point I have to add, that from my 10 months stay during highschool times plus my ongoing contacts with my old mates I got the feeling, that women are slightly more bitchy in the US and Canada, and also jurisdiction seems to be less favorable for men. When I read through the posts here, people rather expect to be sued for rape and whatnot, for no reason, which is something that would create quite some outrage in my home country.

    For example: When a man gets devorced he cannot be forced to pay for his wife as easy any more. He will have to be forced to py child support though. Prostiution is legal in Germany as is known. This really makes sex a way smaller deal. There is no reason to make a clown out of oneselve in a bar buying drinks to some chick who will then take her golden vagina home with herself. Men can just pay their 50-100 bucks and buy their sex somewhere else.

    Also in German culture it’s part of the culture, that women pay their own way. At least many women do it, and they do it with pride. When I get to know women, I pay for dinner, but when they repeatedly don’t pay in return, I either call em on that behavior, if I like them, if not – which is more frequently the case, I just let em go. Still women everywhere have tendencies to tie to men. I have found that women get exploited by their children, while women exploit their man. It’s just like a tomatoe plant that dies in fall while pushing her last ressources into the ripening tomatoe. That’s nature.

    Personally I ended my last relationship with a german / Russian woman mix. She was cooking dinner for me washed my cloths. She dressed sexy, she was doing many of those things that some MGTOWs here require. But then she gave her best to take over all of my life. She put pressure on me to join every singe family party of hers. People would continue to speak russian there so it was boring to me. Also she would be more then distracted by her nephew and niece while we were there. So she would kiss those disgusting bugger-noses instead of me. Unfortunately I gave in to joining those events for too long. The reason was that they were really interesting and thus enjoyable to me in the beginning. Through women I have gotten many deep insights into foreign societies in the past. Finally I resisted letting her rule my life any more, told her I never ever want a kid from her, and after that she left me.

    What really struck me, was that all those Russian-German men were total family slaves. Her father had gone to the basement, hanging out in the garage in his spare time, while her mother reigned the living room. But it was him who brought twice the wage home as his wife.

    Her brother married the worst bitch while I was with her. She had gotten impregnated after 3 months of relationship. That was after he had lost half of his belongings to his ex wife. Still he married this even worse one. Really creepy to me is the fact that my ex said: “he needs that. He likes to be the provider to feel important. While her brothers fat bitch once tried to shame me for not willing to support my lazy girlfriend financially “you just don’t want to take responsibility”.

    Her sister has 2 kids. That womans husband works in a lower management position at a great German automotive  manufacturer, and makes good money. She didn’t work for years after giving birth to her kids, always blaming him that she had given up her “career” for her family. A career that she had never really started anyways.

    The experience of her being so captative to me really got me stop wanting another relationship for now. So I spent the winter working while digesting the pain of getting away from her. Recently I spend my time reading MGTOW and relationship related things, which helps me sort my thoughts. Besides that I follow my own passions. Already 2 years ago I had quit my old job, making me a less interesting as a provider. I now earn exactly enough for my own needs. My garden and the lil (crappy) house is payed off, so is my old rusty car. I only work less than half of the year working as a freelancer for money. The rest of the year I work on that lil house repair the car by myself, or push my garden towards self sufficiency. If I feel like it, I leave to the tropics in the winter. And all of this I get to do within the brotherhood of men that live closeby and have similar interests.

    I am really happy to have found this community since I always feld like a person driving the opposite direction on a road. Even those guys I gang out with are still pretty purple minded. After a while I started wondering: “who is the wrong way driver here”? So thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    #74063
    Durden
    Durden
    Participant

    Everyone saw it coming. The price of commitment from quality men has become so high and the value of pussy is so low what do you expect. Some guys will fall for it. A lot of Neomasculinity and Tradcons will.”Oh finally women understand us.” The mass media may very well eat it up. But if you half a mind come on really her tweet is about how good she looks in the shirt not about anything guy related. Its just another trend of women not getting what they want. Its the latest fashion to attract men and to look good for each other.

    Just their way of saying get back to the plantation.

     

    It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

    So, there was a female that I used to deal with a few years ago.  We used to hang out regularly, but she disappeared for a few years and recently popped back up into the picture.

    Back during the time we used to hang out together, she would mention all the time about how smart I was and how much further ahead I should be in life and how I should have a house on the ritziest side of town and how I should be driving a luxury car.

    These “you’re so smart” comments were made on the premise of me already having a really good job and I was working on getting all of my ducks in a row and cleaning up my life (financially) from stupid female driven decisions I made in my 20s.  Also, I was already MGTOW at the time I was dealing with this particular female and was doing things on my own accord as far as getting my life together because I knew my situation better than anyone else and if it didn’t make sense, I didn’t do it.

    Since I lived in a decent apartment, she didn’t push the house thing as much, but she really pushed the idea of me having a luxury car.  When I mentioned to her that I didn’t think it made sense to drive a luxury car while living in an apartment, her response was something to the effect of “everyone needs reliable transportation”.  I am shaking my head as I type this out………

    Anyway, I continued to stay in my apartment and kept driving my old car with over 350,000 miles on it and it broke down on me one weekend and in addition to this, I had issues with my pickup truck so I couldn’t drive either of my vehicles.  We had plans to meet up for dinner that weekend and I sent her a text asking her to come pick me up because both of my vehicles had issues.  Needless to say, I never got a response from her and in addition to this, she disappeared for good after mentioning both of my vehicles had problems.

    I ended up reaching out to a mutual friend (another female) to come pick me up so that I could go to the auto parts store to get the parts I needed to get my car up and going while I was waiting on the part to come in for my truck.  The mutual friend came over and took me everywhere I needed to go.  The mutual friend pointed out how that particular female was on the shallow side and was all about guys with money and status (even though she didn’t have it herself).

    Well, time passed and I got another job………and this one was the one that put me into the big leagues as far as my career was/is concerned.  I finally got rid of the old car I had (as I had privately planned to do so) and bought a brand new car.  Still wasn’t a luxury car, but it was a nice one.  And I bought another used car as a daily driver to keep the miles off my new car.  I somehow think the mutual friend mentioned all of this to her at some point because the mutual friend had a relative that had been at the company for over 20 years and she also saw how things progressed with me over the years.

    Fast forward a few years and out of the blue, that same aforementioned mutual friend sent me a text stating that the female I used to hang out with wanted me to call her because she needed a favor dealing with one of my areas of expertise.

    The mutual friend thought that I wouldn’t want to talk to the chic, but I went on and told the mutual friend to send me her number and I called the chic.  So, after getting in touch with this chic, she told me her sob story about taking in her ex that got out of jail (presumably an ex drug dealer) and how she lost everything behind her ex (including her business), had health issues as a result of depression, having to start over again, has bad credit as a result of her ex, etc.

    Since I knew I wasn’t going to do anything with her anyway due to the stunt she pulled when both of my vehicles had broken down a few years back, I went on and stayed in touch with her.  And this is extremely petty on my part, but I knew I was about to make some moves, so I wanted to keep her around and underhandedly rub it in her face a bit to see what happens………

    Last week, she reached out to me for another favor (she paid me and took me to dinner afterwards) and during the course of talking to her, I mentioned that I was in the process of closing on a house in the city and after I close on that house in the city, I’m going to be buying a few acres out in the country and eventually make that my off grid weekend getaway.  Side note:  I’ll be posting on this in another thread later on.

    While we were riding out for me to do what I agreed to do, I offered to show her the house in the city that I’m closing on, so I took her by the house and her mouth fell open and her whole attitude changed (I think the 3 car garage might have done it), so I already had an idea of what was going through her mind.

    Fast forward to earlier this week, I got a text asking if I needed boxes and help packing my stuff.  Mind you, this chic has never offered to help me on anything and left my ass hanging before getting back in contact with her.  At this point, (in my mind) she is clearly plotting to make a move to find herself as a permanent fixture inside of my new house, but that s~~~ sure as hell isn’t going to happen with her or anyone for that matter.

    Out of curiosity, I’m just going to play naïve and see how far she’ll go for something that she had nothing to do with acquiring.  She has absolutely nothing to offer me and is phonier than the real “faux” pearls they used to show on TV.  This, I know to be fact.

    I don’t have a reason for posting this other than to provide more proof about what everyone else on here already knows and has been saying for years.

    Qcummer
    Qcummer
    Participant

    This isn’t actually that rare. Look how many women write to and give conjugal visits to serial killers in prison. Hell, look at the dumb bitch that jus MARRIED Charles Manson.

    ***Dude, That WAS A SCAM she tried to pull by WANTING TO OBTAIN HIS CORPSE AND DISPLAY IT FOR MONEY.

    —————–

    Manson’s fiancée, 27-year-old Afton Elaine Burton, known as Star, sought to wed the convicted mastermind of the Sharon Tate murder and eight other slayings so that she could gain possession of his corpse, according to journalist Daniel Simone.

    Burton and a pal, Craig Hammond, planned to lay out Manson’s remains in a glass crypt, Simone says. The pair figured their bizarre California version of Lenin’s Tomb would draw huge crowds and make big money.

    But Manson, 80, does not want to marry Burton and has no interest in spending eternity displayed in a glass coffin, Simone told The Post. “He’s finally realized that he’s been played for a fool,” Simone said.

    —————http://nypost.com/2015/02/08/charles-mansons-fiancee-wanted-to-marry-him-for-his-corpse-source/————–

     

    Now a good ol’ fashioned serial killer can’t even get an honest woman to marry without wanting him to die so she can profit. Poor fella.

    #72220
    Keymaster
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    I’ll remind you that there was another forum that got into doing that, by the end they were banning and verbally abusing people just for the crime of submitting an intro that didn’t measure up to what they thought it should be.

    I think I mentioned to you that’s exactly what happened to me – personally. TWICE with mgtowforums.com. It was the most hurtful thing… finding a place where I thought there were many other like-minded guys like me… then reading for like 1 year. And THEN FINALLY making an intro. Then the f~~~ing door got slammed in my face. TWICE. No explanation. No reason. Nothing.

    “GET LOST YOU F~~~ING TROLL!!!”

    All caps. It was terrible. I was all excited to participate… made a really positive intro I spend an hour composing…. and was then immediately shut out . But not only that…. I was IP BANNED…. so I couldn’t even READ anymore. It hollowed me out.

    So I said f~~~ it. Why JOIN…. when I can build my own and make the rules.
    It will be wide open for everyone and introductions will be OPTIONAL.

    It will not be “NO WOMEN ALLOWED!!!!!!”
    It will be for MEN ONLY. Period. Important difference.

    MGTOW will make their introductions enthusiastically – when they are ready. And they have. We made the kind of place they will be HAPPY to join and we will be happy to have them. The only requirement (and they will get smoked out eventually) is an understanding and willingness to help other men. We have successfully created the first MGTOW forum that doesn’t depend on mandatory introductions.. and “banning” you is the LAST thing will we do. Eeven women will be politely escorted out via the woman’s shelter. We even provide the mechanism to show themSELVES out with dignity intact. If they won’t, then there is nothing we can do about that, and it’s now open season in the litter box.

    You guys have made great efforts to maintain this kind of environment we set out to create.

    I SWORE we would never be like that place.
    Anyone can buy http://www.mgtowforums.com for $999 GBP now.

    (For those that already offered. MGTOW.COM is not for sale. We send them over there instead. lolz )

    Pretty sure it was AVFM who wanted to buy mgtow.com after we acquired. Twice. (although they wouldn’t say)
    Whoever it was DID say:“We believe we are equipped to represent MGTOW media”.

    Whatever the f~~~ that means. “Represent MGTOW media?” OK what websites have you produced? What is your place in the Manosphere? Have you established yourself? What you have you created that shows an ability and interest in “MGTOW media”? There was no reply. Of course.

    They made the tragic mistake of thinking all they had to offer was ca$hola. Big mistake.

    If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.
    #70946

    In reply to: Muslims

    ValleyFever101
    ValleyFever101
    Participant

    I would beg to differ my good sir, you say America was founded on traditional and conservative values but you kind of start at the middle of the story and that’s misleading. It is true that your founding father’s had some great values, but it’s also important to remember that most of them had black slaves while advocating these beautiful values.

    I’m not sure that one would necessarily negate the other in this case.  I would also point out that, for their time, America’s Founding Fathers’ views were considered quite radical – not conservative or traditional at all.

    Only a small minority of the US white population actually owned slaves, and most of the Northern states abolished slavery shortly after Independence.

     

    Allow me to offer a perspective of someone who is not an American, you will be surprised to hear that this is the perspective of most people who don’t have the subconscious bias of nationalism.

    Strictly speaking, America was never really “nationalistic” in the literal sense.  When nationalism was practiced in Europe, it sprung up mainly along linguistic lines, whereas America didn’t actually go in that direction.

    America was created by the genocide or the extermination of the indigenous population and it was built on the backs of black slaves, one sentence more or less sums it up.

    Trouble is, trying to sum up centuries of history in a single sentence doesn’t really give the full story.

    A lot of early US history (1607-1776) gets glossed over quite a bit, making people believe that America just popped up in 1776 and “was created by” extermination, slavery, etc.  In the early days, slavery was more class-based than race-based.  In Colonial Virginia, there was indentured servitude, which affected whites in addition to blacks.  Some blacks were eventually freed and allowed to own property – and were even legally allowed to have white indentured servants, as well as marry white people.

    There was also class friction, as a lot of the land was already claimed and owned by white planters, leaving a lot of other whites as landless tenant farmers or frontier farmers which were vulnerable to attack by Native tribes (although many white settlers also had good relations with the Natives, so it wasn’t a constant state of war).  A lot of this changed after Bacon’s Rebellion of 1676, when poor whites allied themselves with poor blacks – which scared the crap out of the elite whites in power.  This coincided with numerous border disputes with various Native tribes.

    As a result, slavery became more race-based and started to increase drastically, along with more aggressive westward expansionist policies – which led to clashes with other European powers doing the same thing (mainly France and Spain).  This would eventually lead up to the French and Indian War (aka Seven Years War, 1754-1763), and the political instability in the aftermath which would lead up to the American Revolution in 1776.

    By that time, race-based slavery had already become an integral part of the economy in several states in the South, whereas it wasn’t as prevalent in the North.  This was also the time when the Industrial Revolution was in its infancy in England, and Alexander Hamilton wanted to build up industries and factories in the U.S.  However, Jefferson disagreed and felt that the US should only be a source of raw materials (such as cotton), believing that we should import all manufactured goods from Europe.

    But because of a need for unity among the Colonies at the time, they had to compromise on various issues – but the result was that two separate political and economic systems had formed, one in the industrialized North and the other in the slave-owning agrarian South.  The only thing both sides really agreed upon was the need for more westward expansion, which meant more aggressive attacks against the Native tribes.

    Andrew Jackson was actually a “liberal” for his time, since he advocated ending the requirement that one must own property in order to vote.  There were also similar problems of all the coastal land being all claimed and spoken for, with still more landless whites getting restless.  The result was to open up more lands in the West, which is part of what motivated the Trail of Tears which Jackson has been since vilified for.

    Similar problems were also happening in Europe, with landless serfs and peasants getting restless and leading to uprisings.  The European response led to a rise in nationalism, as well as various forms of liberalism and socialism advocated by the aristocratic classes in order to appease the peasant and working classes and keep them from revolting.  Ironically, it was conservative aristocrats in Europe who first implemented social security, old age homes, and other aspects of socialism and the “nanny state” which are so often blamed on the left.

    Europeans also embarked on expansionist policies of a different sort.  Since they could no longer expand on their own continent, they had to go to other continents, such as Africa and Asia.  Likewise about the same time, the Russians expanded eastward, into Siberia, Central Asia, and the Far East.  Germany got off to a late start and found there was very little land left to colonize, as Britain and France beat them to it and got most of the world’s prime real estate.  (This would lead to even bigger problems in the 20th century.)

    Sorry to go into such a long history here, but it’s kind of a sore point with me whenever the history of America is summed up in short oversimplified statements like that.  I’m not denying our history, nor would I ever argue that our Founders were a bunch of choir boys.  But when looking at what America was “created by,” one has to look at the confluence of various historical factors, as well as the timing, in order to get a more accurate picture of what happened and how we got to this point.

    In any case, right now, America is a different nation from what it used to be.  A lot of people look at the American Revolution, the Federalist Papers, the Constitutional Convention, and the Founding Fathers as being the basis for American principles and the ideals upon which this country was founded.  I’ve always felt this was a somewhat flawed position to take, since the practical basis of America as we know it today wasn’t really formulated until the Civil War and the decades following – once the period of slavery and expansionist genocide was mostly over (although racism and segregation as public policy would continue for a century).

    But I can also understand the reasons why many Americans want to go back to that earlier time, if only it could be altered so that it really meant “all men are created equal” – regardless of race, color, or creed.  No racism, no slavery, no massacres of Natives – but every man being free under a very limited decentralized government, along with state and local semi-autonomy and home rule.  No Federal Reserve, no IRS, no centralized police establishment, no military-industrial complex…I can see the attraction of it, although I don’t know how practical it is.  But it’s worth exploring as an idea.

    Bottom line is that violence has always been a part of human history regardless of race, ethnicity, geography, demography, nationality etc etc etc. The reason Islam is perceived by some as an intolerant religion is because it IS an intolerant religion, but it’s also important to remember that Islam never had a renaissance like Christianity did. They will get around sooner or later brother, don’t hate =P

     

    I’ve known and worked with Muslims from different parts of the world, and many of them seem okay to me.  It seems that a lot of what we’re dealing with, in terms of terrorist violence and extremism, they seem to be using Islam as a mask, but they’re really operating under a more secular, nationalistic frame of mind.  It’s not religious, it’s tribal.  Of course, that’s not to say their grudge against the West isn’t genuine, although the West has been at odds with the Muslim World for well over a millennium, as well as the rest of Europe and Asia for that matter.

    Ironically, one can trace a historical connection with the Muslim conquest of the Byzantine Empire, which led to the need for Europeans to seek out other trade routes to the East, which eventually culminated in Columbus’ famous voyage, which led to European settlement and colonization in America.  The Spanish also had to deal with Muslim invaders around the same time, which also figured in to the decision to continue exploring and expand their empire.

    I’m not sure it’s entirely true that Islam “never had a renaissance,” since at one time, Islamic nations were probably more advanced than the Christian nations in certain knowledge, such as mathematics and science.  They also had trade ties to India and China, as well as access to various Chinese inventions and discoveries which eventually made their way to the West (gunpowder, paper are a couple of examples).

    But then, the Christian nations eventually gained more knowledge, technology, and expanded further, which tipped the balance of power in the West’s favor, while the Muslim World pretty much stagnated and grew weaker.  By the time of WW1 and the defeat of the Ottoman Empire, pretty much the entire Muslim World was under the thumb of European/Western hegemony, from Morocco to Indonesia.  Even nations which were nominally “independent” were still under the West’s sphere of influence and were unable to become any kind of real threat.

    So, in other words, after all those centuries of fighting, fending off Muslim invaders all across the southern tier of Europe, the nations of Europe had finally defeated the only remaining Muslim nation which mounted any kind of serious threat.  What we’re dealing with now is the long-term aftermath of those events.  Much of this probably could have been avoided with better foresight, but that’s all water under the bridge.  Now, we’re left with a few options:

    1.  We could pull out of the Middle East entirely and let the chips fall where they may.  We can get our oil from other regions of the world and wish Israel the best of luck.  We could still maintain our defensive posture to prevent any Muslim aggression against Western nations, without taking any overt aggressive or interventionist measures against Muslim nations.

    2.  We could continue the status quo of management by crisis, putting out little fires here and there before they erupt into big ones.  Trouble with this option is that it gets us too deeply involved in local politics and intrigue – even though we’re falling all over ourselves trying to prove to the world that we’re not involved and that we’re only honoring the requests of “legitimate” governments supposedly backed by their own people.  I think this is a major sticky point.

    3.  A more extreme option would be to engage in a more aggressive policy in the Middle East, which could entail a much deeper involvement and possibly long-term occupation of one or more Middle Eastern nations – which would effectively be a return to colonial status.  That may not be a very palatable option, although it seems clear that many of these nations aren’t really suited towards democracy.  Even their own governments seem to operate under the presumption that the only way to maintain order is through heavy-handed brute force.  There may not be any other way to really solve the current dilemma over there, but is the West really ready and willing to go along with that?  Probably not; it’s very politically dicey.  The people are fed up with all the world’s problems and want the problems at home to fixed.

     

    Sorry for the excessively long rant.  I sort of got carried away.

    #70573
    Wolf
    Wolf
    Participant

    Hi Larry, welcome!

    Bottom line up front: break up with her now. Get rid of her. I know, it ain’t easy when she lives with you, but it has to be done. She’s making you unhappy, and the possibility of an “accidental” pregnancy is high! If she wants marriage and children, then she will get it one way or the other. Trust me dude, the break up won’t be easy, but the weight of the world will be off your shoulders once you’re free and clear. I’m speaking from experience.

    I have to say that I was in a very similar situation to you. I had a woman live with me in my condo for three years from age 34-37. Like you, I was in a good financial position, and I wasn’t interested in marriage and/or children; however, she wanted marriage.

    I told her that I didn’t want marriage due to the risk of losing a big chunk of my assets, and she was okay with that. She claimed to be a NAWALT and had no problem signing a prenup. I also told her that I didn’t want to waste a lot of money on a wedding, and she also agreed with that. She even agreed to pay for 50% of the wedding from her own money.

    I never did propose to her, but this was the plan if we ever got married. After a couple of years, she really started putting pressure on me to propose. This matter was complicated by the fact that she was very irresponsible with her own money and was on a path to financial ruin (unless of course I saved her, which I refused to do). After putting the pressure on hard core for a couple of weeks, I couldn’t take it anymore, and I told her in no uncertain terms that I wasn’t ready to propose to her, particularly due to her financial situation. It worked, and she stopped pressuring me.

    As our relationship continued, her financial situation got worse and worse. Despite this, I had decided that I wanted a house. The plan was to buy the house in my name only and use my money – none of hers. She was okay with this. However, when I finally did put an offer in on a house, and used my name only, she got all weird. She was with me at the realtor’s office when he specifically asked if it would be in my name only, and I said yes. Her body language and behavior instantly changed after that statement was made. While driving home, she brought it up. She felt that it wouldn’t be her “home” without her name on the deed. I told her in no uncertain terms that her name wouldn’t be on the deed. I was putting 200K of my own money into the house, she was on the verge of bankruptcy, and the last thing I needed was creditors going after my property for her financial problems. I was pretty aggressive about it, so she asked me to stop talking about it, and she never brought it up again.

    She wasn’t going to pay for any of the house (or own it), but I did reiterate to her though that she needed to get her own finances in order because I was not going to bail her out under any circumstances. And buying the house would limit any help I could provide, even if I wanted to. She agreed. However, her finances continued to get worse.

    Luckily, the offer I put in on the house wasn’t accepted; however, I did continue to shop around. While doing this, I really started to think about my relationship with her and her contradictions: saying it was okay for the house to be in my name only and then getting all p~~~ed when it became real, and agreeing to get her finances in order but her actions were the opposite.

    So I decided to end it. She was bad news. After our relationship was over, she started talking about seeing a lawyer to see what she could get out of me. Honestly, I wasn’t surprised, but she did tell me on many occasions in the past that she was a NAWALT. Another contradiction. However, I wasn’t concerned about her threats to see a lawyer because I know the common law in my province quite well, and I was careful to play by those rules.

    Ultimately, it wasn’t a dramatic breakup, and I did help her with the transition: I gave her a bunch of my furniture, and bought a few things for her new place. I didn’t have to do this, but I believe it helped end the relationship and smooth over her transition. I believe a cup of honey will get you further than a gallon of gas – you don’t want to p~~~ off a bitch anymore than necessary! And I have never received any court notices in the mail.

    Ancientwisdom
    Ancientwisdom
    Participant

    I finally remembered my breaking point! I had tried to think of the answer to the OP’s question several times and kept missing the mark because I was searching my memory for a singular negative event instead of an overwhelmingly positive one.

    I had made plans to spend a week away with the gf- and all the pain-in-the-ass scheduling arrangements and expenses that go with it. This was actually the second time I had gone to the trouble to set up this trip, she had cancelled at the last minute the first time and the whole thing was already a nightmare of rearranging (which with work and timeshare involved other people that didn’t even know her) by this point. So the day before we’re set to go, she calls to cancel AGAIN because one of her chick friends was getting divorced and needed a place to crash or some bulls~~~. So I tell her fine, I’ll cancel the plans and take the financial hit on it again, but I’m not going to reschedule anything.

    She immediately launches into this giant screaming and crying tirade, the kind where you have to hold the phone away from your head. I can’t even tell you what it was about because I put the phone down, went in the bathroom and brushed my teeth, came back and SHE’S STILL SCREAMING. So I put it back down and went back to the bathroom and took a nice leisurely morning dump, where I had a bit of an epiphany (ain’t that usually where it happens?). I came back to my living room and picked the phone back up, wishing she had reached critical anger mass and hung up on me, but nope! Still screaming. I told her that she can do whatever she wants, but that I’d box up the stuff of hers that she kept at my apartment and drop it off on her step on the way to the airport and that I was going to go by myself and hung up the phone.

    BEST. VACATION. EVER.

    With the money that I likely would have spent on her, I went SCUBA diving with green sea turtles in Akumal, went deep-sea fishing in the Gulf for a day, took day trips to Chichen Itza one day and Tulum/Xel-Ha another, made friends with a Coati, went rock climbing with a couple of cute Burmese girls that I met at the swimming pool bar, went to a goddamn RAVE in Playa del Carmen one night, (who knew those were even still a thing?) generally had the time of my life. Made a bunch of friends from the US, Mexico, UK, and France, and still keep in touch with them. If that wasn’t enough of an overload of awesome, I used the airline credit from cancelling her flight and spent the following New Year’s Eve in NYC, and went to see one of my favorite bands (Gogol Bordello). So that’s how my last relations~~~ ended and my red-pill life began.

    When I got back from Mexico and checked my text messages (don’t mess around with adding international plans when you go abroad, just get a burner when you get there), there was a veritable rollercoaster of emotional messages and voicemails from her, the last of which said -get this- “I’m willing to give you another chance if you learn to work on your communication skills.” I laughed so much, I got to skip ab day that week.

    This is such a good story.Did you have any final f~~~ off convo with her, or did you just ignore her entirely?

    Resident cynic.

    #67305

    In reply to: Just out of Jail

    Robot112
    Robot112
    Participant

    Guys I want to quote every bit of advice here, it’s so good, but it’s too much so rest assured every bit helps dramatically.

    Just a bit more info about me, I have been reading shrinkformen.com for a while which helped me a lot. I will definitely read “Boundaries”

    Also, I have an addictive personality, I used to drink to get through this treatment until ten years ago and finally sobered up,  which sort of is when I began to  realize  things are awfully wrong. I don’t drink any longer so I have to face the beast sober 🙂

    I’ve seen the kids today. My daughter said a few days ago she said she did only want me scared not thrown into jail. Today she got mad and told her she was happy they threw me in jail and she would do it again if she had to. (Hearing that felt good as it makes me feel stronger about my decision)

    I started a diary now, catching up from the day I got arrested. And I have began a plan of action as you have all suggested.

    One more piece of information. My eldest daughter left our house a few years ago at the age of 19, because she couldn’t take her s~~~ any longer. (The older the kids get the more control she loses over them which makes her go nuts too) My wife forbade me any contact with her. At that point things began to go crazy as I of course have not stopped contact with her and explained to my wife that I love my children unconditionally and I would never abandon my daugher for nobody. She has never forgiven me that I disobeyed her “order” and has since verbally attacked me every day. One day 2 years ago or so she attacked me physically and I left the home. I went to police to ask them to accompany me to prevent the breach of peace, and picked up my things. I did not press charges as I did not want the mother of my small child in trouble.  I was back the same day…and the hell started the same day all over(I wish I knew about Mgtow then) I should add that after I brought the Police home to help me pack, she never attacked me physically again. Anyway I thought I share this too as it helps.

     

     

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