Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Matt Forney and Shaming Language
Tagged: shaming
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BlackEagle 4 years, 6 months ago.
- AuthorPosts
https://archive.is/dRGvQ – “Why Shaming Men (And Women) Is Important And Necessary”
Matt Forney cannot keep his mouth shut about MGTOW, nor can he prevent himself from conflating feminism and MGTOW, likely because he has confused supposition, innuendo, and guilt by association with substantial arguments.
He argues that shaming is a “necessary component of a stable society”. He does not explain why explicitly, though he uses innuendi in later paragraphs concerning fat people and “girls who sleep around” to bolster this argument.
He justifies this behaviour by arguing that the only one who can make one’s self feel shame is one’s self. This is similar to justifying the behaviour of a virus on a computer on account that the computer executed the command of the virus.
What Mr. Forney fails to grasp or has conveniently omitted is that shaming is not done for the benefit of the target, but is done for the benefit of the shamer. Where MGTOW is concerned, “shaming language” ranges from thinly veiled insults to non-falsifiable ad-hominem attacks designed to put the recipient on the defensive. It is designed to denigrate the target in the eyes of third parties.
Oxford has two definitions for “shame” in this context:
1 – A painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behaviour
1.1 – A loss of respect or esteem; dishonourMGTOW is the triumph of the neocortex over the lizard brain and the limbic system. The latter two tell us MGTOW is wrong on a basic instinctual level, while the former says that MGTOW is right on an intellectual level. Therefore, it is possible to craft arguments to appeal to one’s baser instincts and to induce “humiliation or distress.”
Shaming language may be better understood in the context of the second definition of “shaming”.
From this we conclude that “shaming language” is intended as a weapon that is best countered using the methods discussed on this webpage courtesy of Keymaster:
Anonymous3Have you seen a picture of Matt Forney? If you do, you will understand why he is so desperate about this. He’s projecting and is scared that people will identify him for what he is, so he has these exaggerated responses. There is no way Fatt Forney is able to get anything other than low self esteem damaged 5s and 6s most normal men won’t touch with a 10 foot pole.
He’s acting like he’s everybody’s mother.
And as someone who’s trying to derrive self esteem by putting down others.
Correction – in the original post, read “defensive” in lieu of “offensive.”
Addendum – I should have noted that this was written for Return of Krap (RoK)
Phoenix, you are correct; he a four, meaning that a crack whore would charge $400 to suffer his presence.
Funny, but we don’t need to engage in the same ad hominem that he is doing when he refers to us a “gang of virgins.”
The fact that he needs/wants to stoop to that level says everything – lets not join him there.
So what if we were all virgins? There is no dishonour in that whatsoever. Many religious traditions hold that status up as ideal. By using those terms, he is attempting to lower our value by implying that we are inadequate on some level and unable to attract a mate. He is either unable or unwilling to process and acknowledge the fact that a man might willingly choose to avoid women for any one of the plethora of reasons we discuss ad nauseum here. [Don’t get me wrong – no disparagement intended as I love to discuss the reasons for GYOW ad nauseum, and this is definitely THE PLACE for it – I’m for one quite grateful it exists.]
Honestly, I think this is a case of “no such thing as bad publicity” because the kind of people we want here will see right through his BS and the rest – f~~~ em who needs em.
"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,
Anonymous3Funny, but we don’t need to engage in the same ad hominem that he is doing when he refers to us a “gang of virgins.” The fact that he needs/wants to stoop to that level says everything – lets not join him there. So what if we were all virgins? There is no dishonour in that whatsoever. Many religious traditions hold that status up as ideal. By using those terms, he is attempting to lower our value by implying that we are inadequate on some level and unable to attract a mate. He is either unable or unwilling to process and acknowledge the fact that a man might willingly choose to avoid women for any one of the plethora of reasons we discuss ad nauseum here. Don’t get me wrong – no disparagement intended as I love to discuss the minutia of men stuff, and this is definitely THE PLACE where we should discuss those things ad nauseum. I’m for one quite grateful it exists. Honestly, I think this is a case of “no such thing as bad publicity” because the kind of people we want here will see right through his BS and the rest – f~~~ em who needs em.
A man that defines his entire life in one way, and then fails at that thing, definitely is worthy of scorn and mocking. I don’t consider it ad hominem when it cuts to his very argument: he is the one that defines value on those terms and couches the terms on attractiveness, so holding him up to his own terms is perfectly logical and valid.
Ad homimen is only when you bring in unrelated terms.
Logically, look at Forney’s argument: men must constantly chase pussy and if they can’t get it, that means they are fat and ugly.
Now we look at Fatt Forney’s picture, and we know he does constantly chase pussy, but it’s also factual that he is fat and ugly, and we can see he can’t get pussy either, his very own terms. So it can’t be ad hominem.
Anyway I agree, MGTOW don’t define themselves chasing pussy, that is a PUA thing, pussy begging. But those are biting and cutting remarks, and we do need to address them and respond. It is no virtue to allow yourself to be bullied and disrespected, no virtue to yourself and to others that would otherwise follow a message for their betterment. It is incumbent on men to defend themselves and stand against their attackers. Let the Fatt Forneys scurry off in shame, and then the next one is less likely to try again. In that way, more men can be saved to MGTOW as well.
Do not go to the return of the kings website to post to the idiot. It is clear this douche bag is trolling and actually trying to get more traffic. We want less traffic to the site. The stupid fat pass would be a virgin if he didn’t go to another country to get laid. He is a fat pathetic dude. He assumes all the MGTOW and MRA men responded to his article is a virgin? Boy he is one clueless fat ass. RooshV fat shames women, why doesn’t he fat shame Matt? Hmmm?
"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
Have you seen a picture of Matt Forney? If you do, you will understand why he is so desperate about this. He’s projecting and is scared that people will identify him for what he is, so he has these exaggerated responses. There is no way Fatt Forney is able to get anything other than low self esteem damaged 5s and 6s most normal men won’t touch with a 10 foot pole.
"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
Funny, but we don’t need to engage in the same ad hominem that he is doing when he refers to us a “gang of virgins.” The fact that he needs/wants to stoop to that level says everything – lets not join him there. So what if we were all virgins? There is no dishonour in that whatsoever. Many religious traditions hold that status up as ideal. By using those terms, he is attempting to lower our value by implying that we are inadequate on some level and unable to attract a mate. He is either unable or unwilling to process and acknowledge the fact that a man might willingly choose to avoid women for any one of the plethora of reasons we discuss ad nauseum here. Don’t get me wrong – no disparagement intended as I love to discuss the minutia of men stuff, and this is definitely THE PLACE where we should discuss those things ad nauseum. I’m for one quite grateful it exists. Honestly, I think this is a case of “no such thing as bad publicity” because the kind of people we want here will see right through his BS and the rest – f~~~ em who needs em.
A man that defines his entire life in one way, and then fails at that thing, definitely is worthy of scorn and mocking. I don’t consider it ad hominem when it cuts to his very argument: he is the one that defines value on those terms and couches the terms on attractiveness, so holding him up to his own terms is perfectly logical and valid. Ad homimen is only when you bring in unrelated terms. Logically, look at Forney’s argument: men must constantly chase pussy and if they can’t get it, that means they are fat and ugly. Now we look at Fatt Forney’s picture, and we know he does constantly chase pussy, but it’s also factual that he is fat and ugly, and we can see he can’t get pussy either, his very own terms. So it can’t be ad hominem. Anyway I agree, MGTOW don’t define themselves chasing pussy, that is a PUA thing, pussy begging. But those are biting and cutting remarks, and we do need to address them and respond. It is no virtue to allow yourself to be bullied and disrespected, no virtue to yourself and to others that would otherwise follow a message for their betterment. It is incumbent on men to defend themselves and stand against their attackers. Let the Fatt Forneys scurry off in shame, and then the next one is less likely to try again. In that way, more men can be saved to MGTOW as well.
That’s a hard point to argue with, and it’s a dillemma for sure – if we respond are we “stooping to his level” or simply defending ourselves? I think it’s a matter of balance. I prefer to take the high road and hope that others will see through his brand of BS, but I might be overly optimistic there, so I really understand where your coming from too.
"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,
Anonymous12Shaming language is dependent on what the Politically Correct are pushing for at any given moment, so while it is considered wrong to call a Slut a Slut for her behaviour it is quite ok to call a White Man “privileged” based purely on the colour of his skin.
Again it is all bulls~~~.
That is precisely why the archive was posted as opposed to a link to Return of Krap.
Do not go to the return of the kings website to post to the idiot. It is clear this douche bag is trolling and actually trying to get more traffic. We want less traffic to the site. The stupid fat pass would be a virgin if he didn’t go to another country to get laid. He is a fat pathetic dude. He assumes all the MGTOW and MRA men responded to his article is a virgin? Boy he is one clueless fat ass. RooshV fat shames women, why doesn’t he fat shame Matt? Hmmm?
The most important thing you have to understand about shame is that at the end of the day, the only person who can make you feel shame is you. While you may be insulted by someone else’s words or comments, if you feel shamed, it’s because those comments cut deep and reveal an inadequacy within you.
Exactly and that why your shame does not work on MGTOW. Your hamster wheel is spinning fast.
For example, feminists could try to shame me by saying that I live in my parents’ basement, but it wouldn’t affect me because it’s not true (my rental lease and credit report being evidence that it’s not true). Conversely, the reason why so many “migtows” became angry at my cracks about them being basement-dwelling virgins is because a great many of them are basement-dwelling virgins, and all I did was point out the truth.
Assumptions and while your eager to use your rental lease and credit report to get laid that’s perfectly acceptable mangina behavior. I personally don’t carry around rental leases or credit report because they are bulky. But I bet you can fit them in your purse. Of course if you say it it must be true because if it was not it would hurt your fragile ego. You should get yourself an editor you keep spelling MGTOW wrong.
At the end of the day, choices have consequences. You’re free to carve out whatever life you see fit, but I’m also free to mock you for it if your life choices are stupid. “Shaming language” is just an attempt to de-legitimize any criticism of anyone who chooses mediocrity over greatness, failure over success.
Yes you are and I’m free to mock you for being bald, fat and spending your time writing articles on shaming tactics for a living. Seems you have reached greatness that is far surpassed any MGTOW.
It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything
Anonymous13It seems like we’ve addressed all the issues he spoke of this week, I don’t see what he thinks he sees. Funny thing is, is that we agreed that shaming is fine as well. What a douche, trying to put his own spin on this…setting himself up to be mocked, does he think he is clever or something? He sees this whole “shame” thing the way the female mind does – or has convinced himself to see it that way, pure whiteknightdom, twisting and contorting the facts to make ambiguous statements contrarian out of spite, for attention – this man is not intellectually honest.
I will look to do a video sometime that shows how MGTOW differ than SJWs in regards to responding to life. It is my take, so anyone make what you will.
In regards to shame, SJW/Feminist yell at the world to quit it, so they can have the entire world a “safe space” so they don’t have to get traumatized. In short, they need the road to be paved before they can walk.
With MGTOW, you deal with any attempts at shame, or other verbal insults on your own, with your filtering system, and you screen out things. In short, you put on whatever shoes you need to travel the harsh terrain, and you walk.
For Matt Forney to talk about the need for shame, it cries of a need to have social control to get men into a pecking order, so the said “betas” and “omegas” can compete against each other for the “honor” of being alpha and spend resources to get secret knowledge.
I believe I got the shoe/road analogy out of the Art of Learn book:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Learning-Journey-Performance/dp/0743277465
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
Anonymous3It seems like we’ve addressed all the issues he spoke of this week, I don’t see what he thinks he sees. Funny thing is, is that we agreed that shaming is fine as well. What a douche, trying to put his own spin on this…setting himself up to be mocked, does he think he is clever or something? He sees this whole “shame” thing the way the female mind does – or has convinced himself to see it that way, pure whiteknightdom, twisting and contorting the facts to make ambiguous statements contrarian out of spite, for attention – this man is not intellectually honest.
Feminists, white knights and pussy beggers definitely do think they are being clever, and that is one of the major reasons I think most of us drift to MGTOW. MGTOW have higher IQs than these groups and the general population, so these types of intellectually dishonest arguments and behaviors do tend to grate on us.
So many times you see it in media or from corporate customer support and many other things. People that do things that screw someone over, and then just have the audacity to pretend they aren’t doing it or lie about it immediately afterward. That used to really get me ticked off. It’s a specialty for women, and the corporate environment. In fact I did some customer service work back in my 20s, and I remember being taught to do it, and fired eventually for refusing to just flat out lie to people and contradict myself like an idiot. But apparently people think that is being very clever. It’s a unique combination of being stupid and playing dumb at the same time. I bet most on here know exactly what I am writing on.
The pussy beggars specifically like to pretend they are not pussy beggars, despite shaming for not being a pussy beggar and spending all of their time and energy waxing on about pussy begging. And then of course the insults while never being able to take them in return.
It does get annoying, no way to deny that. It is pretty pathetic. No way to deny that either. MGTOW is like a haven from all of that idiocy.
Also I should point out, it’s a predominantly American behavior, possibly Western in general. Prior to traveling around and meeting people of different races and cultures, I thought maybe all people behaved the same. But I have since learned that no, it is uniquely an American and possibly a Western thing. Other cultures at least have the b~~~~ and manhood to own up and state things outright, or at least not to try and pass off such absurd lies.
Cipher crafts some very eloquent deconstructions.
The “shaming tactics” page has been getting some VERY heavy attention lately. I redid the page myself late last night and am quite blown away by this coincidental mention. It was plain on white, but always wanted to do a more visually appealing version. This time wanted to make more sectioned/separated layout with support images (still to come) …. including some REAL-world tactical, effective, and humorous responses to INSTANTLY shut them up on the spot. Tried and tested in the field. Will be adding when we can.
It was the very first post ever added to MGTOW.com (post ID # 1) – and it was done so for good reason. It must be fully understood, identified in everyday conversations and a MGTOW should be armed and prepared for it. And here we are with a perfect example of why. I also have gone much further into them (like the “you can’t get laid” argument) and have pulled apart that s~~~ virtually destroy anyone who uses it – male or female. The “MGTOW can’t get laid” argument will be getting it’s own feature and that will finally put an end to that horses~~~ permanently. They will never try it again.
Fortunately several ROK commenters below the anti-MGTOW article said “WTF did I just read” and didn’t let them get away with it. And they beat us to it.
•••••
In regards to Fatt Worbley…. the insult to MGTOW that I personal zero-ed in on was the accusation that “Robb Fedders (from the hugely dated NO MA’AM blog) is shuddering at what MGTOW has become”. This was as much of a failure as all his other pathetic attempts and I can prove it.
I contacted him personally in 2011 when we first conceptualized a Men’s interest site exactly like this one in the best interests of MGTOW. This is 3 years before we opened here. He graciously replied VERY positively and openly. I spoke of our intent , or skill level, the business we are in, and personally asked him for permission……. which he very graciously granted with FULL permission to repackage, republish, re-present and even re-write it as we / I saw fit if it meant getting it out there. And Ho Boy have we done that. Virtually zero edits were made to 3 original articles by him to preserve the work exactly as originally intended and worded. They remain unchanged, although we will go back and have plans to modify (elaborate) on one of them.
Fatt Worbley will not be interested in knowing this, and he sure as s~~~ wouldn’t admit we have the kind of integrity and consistency of values he will never aspire to (or be capable of) having.
I passed on the ROK drama , our forum thread, the Forney article etc. to others including one friend who took a close look. It was obvious to all of them that ROK may be seeing MGTOW making LEAPS ahead and carving a respectable & attractive identity (and presence in the Manosphere) beyond what they are willing to accept. “The image” of MGTOW is not one of a bunch of basement dwelling losers anymore, and they know it.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.That’s right. Shame is only something you can do to yourself. That’s why it’s a really weak way of trying to control others.
Concern troll.
Enough said.
#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.
Fat F~~~ Forney’s F~~~ing Foolish.
Here are the subsequent posts via the archive:
STEALTHY MGTOW –
I saw a feminist shame one of our top IT guys. Her project got taken OFF the stove.
LESSON….TAKE OVER THE MACHINERY MEN.
LET THE FEMINIST FAIL.
NEARLY EVERYTHING THEY TOUCH WAS INVENTED BY A MAN.Qcummer – stop picking on the guy with downs syndrome. He can’t help that he was born that way. Have some compassion please.
Qcummer –
edit the word ‘ad homimen’ in the first paragraph to ‘ad hominem’, whatever that overused werd meanz anyway. Even my browser spellchecker redlined both versions of the spelling.
Phoenix – If Forney had as much sex as he pretends to have, he would have multiple STDs. Actually he probably already does.
Cipher Highwind (quoting Phoenix) – Given his looks, he contracted f~~~faceitis from the 23rd fatty he shagged.
edit the word ‘ad homimen’ in the first paragraph to ‘ad hominem’,
Done. Thanks Hawkeye.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.- AuthorPosts
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