US student Otto Warmbier was returned by North Korea blind, deaf and howling

[ghostParticipant]

PistolPete wrote:

Sorry the Norks could do some damage but nothing crippling. And we can take that artillery out in 90 minutes or less.

+1

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

I have no faith in our government and dwindling faith in our military but I do have faith in “the bomb”…I love the bomb truth be told and I don’t think we should be afraid of using it. All these WW3 and doom and gloom scenarios are just speculation. There was a time I would have agreed with Ranger One about a navel blockade but most of the trade with Nkorea is overland through China. So its impact is dubious.

Setting aside the case of Otto for the moment the plain reality is that we have a country with a very destructive weapon(s) a means of employing it and the stated desire of using it—can we afford the luxury that it is a bluff? If they were to launch against Japan or the west coast what would the Russians and china do? Condemn it? NO they would sit back and laugh…

No under the circumstances we should launch a massive country-wide devastating attack with every weapon at our disposal. We should so utterly obliterate North Korea that ANYONE contemplating an attack against us will add into the equation our willingness to use it and THAT will deter potential aggressors—i.e. Iran.

WAIT–before everyone rains down on me for this post—remember I’m German I can’t help myself!

[ghostParticipant]

PistolPete wrote:

No under the circumstances we should launch a massive country-wide devastating attack with every weapon at our disposal. We should so utterly obliterate North Korea that ANYONE contemplating an attack against us will add into the equation our willingness to use it and THAT will deter potential aggressors—i.e. Iran.

+1

[OldBillParticipant]

GregB0 wrote:

True but the only reason one persons life is significant is when it is layered within a strategic hierarchy of events … Arch Duke Ferdinand’s assassination in Sarajevo is an example.

Exactly. The political establishment in Vienna right up to the Emperor loathed Franz Ferdinand. The Archduke had been a voice of caution and reason during several diplomatic crisis while those around the Emperor had screamed for war. Franz Ferdinand had made it clear that upon taking the imperial throne he’d toss out the 1867 agreement between Austria and Hungary which allowed the Magyars in Budapest to veto nearly every reform effort. Even worse, Franz Ferdinand had chose to marry a woman “below” his station. While she was part of the nobility, she wasn’t seen to be noble “enough” and so the government had forced him to accept a morganic union which disinherited their children.

The establishment hated Franz Ferdinand so much so that, when his body arrived in Vienna, they quickly interred it without any ceremony in the middle of the night.

However, as much as they hated the man, Vienna was absolutely elated to use his murder as a pretext for their long sought war against Serbia which in turn triggered the First World War.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

PistolPete wrote:

WAIT–before everyone rains down on me for this post—remember I’m German I can’t help myself!

Yes I/m quoting myself–HA HA. Recall Germany’s role in WWI was a matter of personal honor—The Emperor had vowed to support Austria no matter the cost. He couldn’t back out honorably.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

PistolPete wrote:

And we can take that artillery out in 90 minutes or less.

A single SSBN can take out the entire f~~~ing country in under six minutes and they wouldn’t see a thing coming.

The fallout would suck hard for China and South Korea and Japan, but, well, we have plenty more SSBNs where that came from.

Solving the North Korean situation is simply a matter of asking China if they’re really willing to end the world for the sake of lil’ Kim. Because we are tired of this s~~~, and we will f~~~ing go there.

[OldBillParticipant]

PistolPete wrote:

If they were to launch…

That’s the wild card, Pete. IF they launch.

China has already stated plainly that if the DPRK starts it, they’ll “allow” the US to finish it. Is the DPRK crazy enough to start it?

If the DPRK only starts it conventionally, can the US then respond with nukes? That’s another question.

The DPRK can start murdering the inhabitants of Seoul within minutes of starting a war. How fast can we destroy the hundreds of batteries doing the killing? The DPRK can cover the 35 miles between the DMZ and Seoul in a day, there’s nothing the 2nd ID can do to stop them. How fast can we destroy those columns?

Can we go nuclear if the DPRK chooses not to? Because nukes are the only things which can destroy those batteries and stop those armored columns quickly enough to “save” Seoul.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[X11Spectator 4520]

The fact he was returned in such a graphically mangled state is deliberate provocation and tactical propaganda.

Can’t see what they hope to achieve?

Could they actually want to suicide themselves???

That can’t be dumb enough to think they can win a war.

[Anonymous 7]

Some very interesting points gents.
To Old Bill, no IMO Otto Warmbier is not worth WWIII.

It certainly is a sticky situation.
No wonder the last 3 kicked the can down the road.

Will Trump? IDK.

Again, the ball is in stubby fatf~~~s corner.
Again, (Nod to Bill) Seoul is f~~~ed no matter who starts what.

Best case scenario China take the little f~~~stick out.
The fact that they haven’t suggests they enjoy/benefit from the standoff. Shrug.

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

OldBill wrote:

That’s the wild card, Pete. IF they launch.

As I said can we afford the luxury of “if”—in the past people relying on “IF” have been burned badly: ie “IF” the Germans attack Poland; “IF” the Japs attack pearl harbor. I’m not comfortable with the luxury of “IF” or the “good intentions” of the Chinese. They would cut our throats in a heart-beat either directly or through their proxy.

OldBill wrote:

The DPRK can start murdering the inhabitants of Seoul within minutes of starting a war. How fast can we destroy the hundreds of batteries doing the killing? The DPRK can cover the 35 miles between the DMZ and Seoul in a day, there’s nothing the 2nd ID can do to stop them. How fast can we destroy those columns?

Answer: very quickly—within minutes. DO NOT believe for a minute any report that somehow and somewhere we dismantled our stock of neutron weapons—we have them. NOR should we concern ourselves with nuclear fallout. The fallout cone goes to the north/east away from south Korea. AND AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE, all military operations come down to logistics…NKorea does not have the capacity to wage any kind of long war. they don’t build their own weapons, they must import all/most of their fuel and they can barely feed the troops they have. No my friend in any scenario they LOSE and lose big unless a big player like China comes to bail them out. And we can handle that too. there is nothing to be afraid of.

[Puffin StuffParticipant 24979]

There is no negotiating with North Korea. Things will get ugly.

This is what North Korean children learn in school:

#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

Puffin Stuff wrote:

This is what North Korean children learn in school:

Then it is time to re-educate them regarding nuclear physics.

[OldBillParticipant]

sidecar wrote:

A single SSBN can take out the entire f~~~ing country in under six minutes and they wouldn’t see a thing coming.

The DPRK won’t see it coming, but Russia and China will and for a few minutes they won’t know where those Trident missiles and their MIRV buses are actually headed.

Do you want the Russians or Chinese going to their version of DEFCON 1?

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[OldBillParticipant]

PistolPete wrote:

Answer: very quickly—within minutes.

You left out with nukes which brings us right back to my question:

If the DPRK keeps it conventional, can the US use nukes?

Whether they still exist or not, those neutron bombs were part of both SALT and START agreements and thus are nukes.

As for logistics, the Norks need just enough in the way of supplies to murder Seoul. They aren’t looking to win, they’re looking to kill as many other people as possible before losing.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Ranger OneParticipant 16836]

OldBill wrote:

sidecar wrote:

A single SSBN can take out the entire f~~~ing country in under six minutes and they wouldn’t see a thing coming.

The DPRK won’t see it coming, but Russia and China will and for a few minutes they won’t know where those Trident missiles and their MIRV buses are actually headed.

Do you want the Russians or Chinese going to their version of DEFCON 1?

Tactical nukes against NK troops and artillery. Stealth bombers dropping nukes on Pyongyang and other sites. Problem solved.

Preventing NK from killing civilians in Seoul is enough justification to target their military with tactical nukes. I’d incinerate a 1,000 brainwashed NK soldier drones if it saved the life of one civilian in Seoul.

The Sword of Damocles has hung over Seoul long enough. Its time to remove it and grease that fat f~~~er and the rest of his leadership.

All my life I've had doubts about who I am, where I belonged. Now I'm like the arrow that springs from the bow. No hesitation, no doubts. The path is clear. And what are you? Alive. Everything else is negotiable. Women have rights; men have responsibilities; MGTOW have freedom. Marriage is for chumps. If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart-R'as al Ghul.

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

the Russian and Chinese are not going to risk their countries for NKorea—that is a fact—they are not; thus they don’t enter the equation. We would probably give them some notice prior to the attack anyway. and we probably wouldn’t be using strategic level weapons like the Trident anyway. We would be using short/medium range weapons like sea launched cruise missiles and stealth plane launched guided missiles.

I’m sorry gut the fear mongering is without a factual basis—its just speculation based upon fear. We have nothing to fear BUT inaction; appeasing; and hemming and hawing. The Asians have always regarded the US as a paper tiger—do you want to validate this belief, or end this belief?

If the chinese want to involve themselves I say GOOD; gives us a fine opportunity to deal with their illegal island bases being set up to cut off our trade routes.

[Ranger OneParticipant 16836]

PistolPete wrote:

the Russian and Chinese are not going to risk their countries for NKorea—that is a fact—they are not; thus they don’t enter the equation. We would probably give them some notice prior to the attack anyway. and we probably wouldn’t be using strategic level weapons like the Trident anyway. We would be using short/medium range weapons like sea launched cruise missiles and stealth plane launched guided missiles.

I’m sorry gut the fear mongering is without a factual basis—its just speculation based upon fear. We have nothing to fear BUT inaction; appeasing; and hemming and hawing. The Asians have always regarded the US as a paper tiger—do you want to validate this belief, or end this belief?

If the chinese want to involve themselves I say GOOD; gives us a fine opportunity to deal with their illegal island bases being set up to cut off our trade routes.

Additionally, it’d send a good message to Iran that building nukes doesn’t mean the US won’t come after you. In fact, that it makes it MORE likely.

All my life I've had doubts about who I am, where I belonged. Now I'm like the arrow that springs from the bow. No hesitation, no doubts. The path is clear. And what are you? Alive. Everything else is negotiable. Women have rights; men have responsibilities; MGTOW have freedom. Marriage is for chumps. If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart-R'as al Ghul.

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

OldBill wrote:

They aren’t looking to win, they’re looking to kill as many other people as possible before losing.

All the more reason to remove them NOW. And to answer your question YES conventional weapons or anything else we use nukes—Why the hell not? Presumably we built and bought the things for a reason—they aren’t Christmas decorations. As for treaties—mere ink on page—we are dealing with bigger issues.

[OldBillParticipant]

Ranger One wrote:

Tactical nukes against NK troops and artillery. Stealth bombers dropping nukes on Pyongyang and other sites.

Do you believe tactical nuclear warheads in the quantity necessary are already present in South Korea? If you have to fly the bombs or bombers from the US, you’re giving the Norks plenty of killing time.

Once again, I’ll ask the question none of you chickenhawks want to answer:

If the DPRK doesn’t go nuclear in it’s attack on the ROK, US forces station, and/or Japan, can the US go nuclear in response?

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

OldBill wrote:

Once again, I’ll ask the question none of you chickenhawks want to answer:

If the DPRK doesn’t go nuclear in it’s attack on the ROK, US forces station, and/or Japan, can the US go nuclear in response?

OldBill wrote:

Once again, I’ll ask the question none of you chickenhawks want to answer:

If the DPRK doesn’t go nuclear in it’s attack on the ROK, US forces station, and/or Japan, can the US go nuclear in response?

Excuse me OldBill I did answer that. Read my post—OK and I would rather be a Chicken-hawk as you say than an appeaser to a murdering totalitarian dictator that threatens to murder millions. But its up to you. You are letting fear conquer reason.

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