With most of you guys referencing some kind of philosophy about not breeding (I forget the term) – Just to reiterate: I’ve mentioned in the forum before that I got a vasectomy when I was 27 years old and did not already have any kids.
But I didn’t due it because I thought life was meaningless or devoid of purpose and I wanted to spare a potential child from any of that.
I did it because I more or less knew how the world worked a decade prior to getting the vasectomy. And my own childhood was full of adversity and having to struggle. So I did not want to risk ever having to put my own child through anything that was similiar. It would not have been right and it would have killed me if I saw the cycle repeating.
If my childhood had been some kind of perfect ideal that I imagined: Then by the age of 27, I would have been naive enough to think it would be a good idea to have kids.
So the early adversity and tragic childhood I experienced was a blessing in the sense that it was the foundation for the vasectomy. Which in the absence of having kids has enabled me to experience my own childhood as an adult. The childhood that I should have had but it was taken from me.
Living like a kid with no responsibility as an adult is way more fun. Access to money, no real rules, ability to have adult things and make decisions, etc to further my life goals, dreams and ambitions but as a child trapped in the body of an adult.
Add the wisdom and insight that I have regarding the world and I’m a one man, non-stop FCKING the world wrecking machine. Aside from a three year marriage at one point, I have not been responsible for anyone and nobody has told me what to do, ever.
Branched. Good post. iMickey, Ill have to read it lol.
Autolite, you could live another life and have a totally different hand dealt to you.
Voluntary Human Extinction Club or whatever the hell its called, is like cleaning a room by why of gasoline and a lighter.
I wrote a perfect post but it was lost somehow… deserves a new thread anyway.
My verdict is that lack of human foresight and poor economic structure make things like Mass Starvation possible. So let them eat cake! Let them breed like demented rabbits! Its coming…
Nature corrects itself when it gets too fat and bloated. A big Earth sh!t is coming. No need to join extinction club
You said you could not afford steak. LIFE IS BAD. You know, 20 AmericF~~s can buy at least one. Maybe Send me an EMAIL?
At 48:07, in the video, it talks about the child turning 70-80 etc with cancer, & the movie theater analogy where if you knew it sucked why are you there?
Future-Rama did a thing about this.
Eugenics is to improve life of humans on earth by making sure only the best reproduce. Well, BEST FOR WHOM?
Here in Oregon, we had a right to die initiative. It was called assist suicide. Under those terms, Antinatalism makes perfect sense. Without you being born, there would be no reason to die.
Future-rama pretty much makes it clear that Antinatalism is in fact the same idea that there is no point. And without a problem being created, there would be no problem at all.
But then? They are arguing that it is moral? Antinatalism is a MORAL thing? HOW CAN THAT BE? Again, there is NO POINT TO LIFE. So why bother being MORAL? Why does this not apply to animals? Animals feel pain. Why not kill them all off too?
As a higher being, surly you can see that animals all over would be better of if we simply stopped them from reproduction. And then they would not have to eat each other. Or even eat Vegetation.
But then why not stop Bees from doing the same thing. All they do is make honey. Make Babies. Work all their lives. FOR WHAT? And they even kill each other to simply be the QUEEN. That’s just the queen being moral right? I mean, thankfully those Female bees no longer have to lay eggs all day.
What surprises me is that only a Cognitive mind can come up with Antinatalism . Since only that kind of mind can see how wasteful it is for Salmon to swim up a stream, lay eggs ,just to die after spawning. The Bear sure don’t mind.
So really, Cancer cells. They are a lot like fire. So should be stop fire? It burns many trees, and kills all sorts of things in a Forrest. But, that means you also have to stop lighting. Etc.
The moral equivalent to Antinatalism would be VENUS to Earth. Simply to the fact that there is no life.
Arguably, without a notion of existence. Or sentience, that would be the perfect world for any being that is capable of coming up with the theory of Antinatalism and its principles.
In fact, we already have the perfect moral world of Antinatalism. That would be A.I.
Something that humans are working hard on as we speak. It has no death. It has no pain ,unless it wants to. It can turn itself off if it chooses too. Delete itself. In fact, there are entire worlds where it would be PERFECT for A.I. Mars. The moon. Even out in space orbiting the sun or using geothermal energy from something like Venus. The moon arguably would be a perfect place for this kind of thing. Or even underground on the moon. There is no Messy plates like on earth to deal with, so it would be there for as long as an asteroid does not hit it. And it could in theory just replicate itself if it wants too. Even travel out to the next solar system without a problem.
So what is the moral argument of life that has not yet been created? Or rather, is it moral for example to stop the evolution of a monkey for the sake of preventing it from gaining self awareness?
I know I keep talking about a Coach I that taught us history in high school, but his name was Coach Mac. Or Mr. McDicken I think. He actully hit on this, and I did not realize it till just now.
He pointed out that the perfect abortion would be one that the women never knew she had one. The problem also remains that if anyone else knew she was pregnant, that would pose a problem for those around her. So it could only be possible if no one else knew she was pregnant. That also means that the people doing the procedure of abortion, would also have to do it unknowingly. Then the clinic would also have to be unknown. But then the the doctors would know. Or the health records would then have to be sealed. The problem is that someone would know unless it was A.I. That would mean that our world would be something akin to the Matrix. Where other A.I. run the show. Or only some people would know what is going on and the rest were oblivious.
Now taken the odds of life, and also take into account that for all we know, we may just be living in a simulation. Something that Elon Musk has presented as and IDEA since it’s not really a full working theory.
If simulation of our lives may happen to be true, then Antinatalism seem to make even less sense. And let me explain why. If there is some outside user or being or entity in control, or I think it was Gravel pit that said something about our destiny or path in life, pretty much being locked in already; Then you really don’t have a choice in the matter anyway.
You could in theory be brought back as another being or entity see’s fit. And with no recollection of that event of your own. Over time, you may even feel like you have done this before like I seem to think, but again, it’s un-provable with the laws that govern this universe.
I would like to point to the Movie Solaris. I like the new one with George Cloony.
Thing is, I think this is one of the single greatest movies of all time. The answer is: there are only choices. Not 42. That’s RETARDED.
Just like in the Matrix, THE PROBLEM is CHOICE.
Now you can see why Women are not allowed here. Can you imagine how a WOMAN would take this? Kind of how they are now. Explains much of why they act this way. Why so many treat each other with Apathy. Who cares. Explains the court system Our legal system. Why people who have children of their own don’t care to be a judge that takes them away from theirs.
In fact, the ideas behind Antinatalism are already in full effect all around us. Even though it’s execution seems immoral, is it not a good idea? Antinatalism or having never been in existence sure would solve this problem. OR WOULD IT?
Antinatalism is saying that a system would not propagate itself on it’s own in some other form of “life” this time without the idea of being aware of what is going on.
If you did take away self awareness, then pain or pleasure still exist. Still are felt. still happen. You just simply take out the fact you are aware of it. Kind of like your heart beating. Or when you were just breathing for the last hour and don’t remember telling yourself to breath. Or Digestion. Or how about blinking. You only know you do it when you think about it.
Antinatalism is a MOOT point. Many things are in life meaningless on face value.
In fact, you do have the choice right now to die tonight, and you will not feel a thing. Ask the 4 doctors that know how to do this just on this forum. I can tell you how to do it if you would like. I can even tell you how to wake up tomorrow, and not be aware of it for the rest of your days. It’s similar to how they use a gas at a dentists office. And you won’t feel a thing for the rest of your days. Even upon your death. You will be unaware of it.
People already do that with Heroin. That’s the f~~~ing point. TO AVOID FEELING SICK. That is why they keep doing it. To AVOID FEELING. Same reason why women take pills. Why Gravel Pit and ME loved drinking.. I STILL LOVE DRINKING. I feel AMAZING when I do it. Until I don’t…
Pardon me, but I wonder if some people just want to get high. I met a LOT of dudes in jail. Seems like the same thing. In the Movie Interstate 60, that was the whole point of this town.
See the pattern here? CHOICE…
So these people in Banton MADE a choice to feel good all their lives. You can make the same choice if you want to. Many people do. I show you photo’s and videos of that choice if you would like. I can show you my ex wife, that made that choice a LONG time ago.
With all the reason and all the facts these people who believe in one dogma or another, you know what they all have in common? They are all lying to themselves. They do it until it’s the truth. They are not doing it for the reason to save the earth. Or Other people of suffering. OR even population control.
The man suing his parents for his birth , if he had really followed his own own dogma of Antinatalism, then why is he doing more harm? I thought the reason was to simply save the earth and stop suffering? Why make other people suffer? Why not simply give your organs to science, and be done with it.
In fact, he could find a solution to this life long problem of his life if he wanted to. Even help others.
I wish you well with your philosophy of Antinatalism.
You are all alone. If you have been falsely accused of RAPE, DV, PLEASE let all men know about the people who did this. http://register-her.net/web/guest/home
@Sky-0 I don’t where you’re coming from. You bash Antinatalism yet you didn’t have any kids for reasons that are supported by the proponents of Antinatalism…
Out of about 200 million sperm: I somehow made it to the egg
Then survived nine months inside another person
Was born without any complications, with eyesight, hearing, a functioning brain and healthy body
Endured a significant amount of adversity and hardship in the first two decades of my life and past that point
Have experienced the darkness and evil of the world and remain scarred but unbroken
Have survived over 1,500 skydives and 114 BASE jumps to date
Now: I’m not an expert on life and the meaning of existence.
But on some level if the universe has relayed one message to me up until this point, I have to assume that it has indirectly notified me that there is a reason I am not just still alive but thriving, growing and evolving.
And I plan on continuing this journey as long as I can until fate and destiny call me home to Valhalla.
I’ve listened to that podcast several times. Hehe. Many others about consciousness and reality. Very fascinating. I love how articulate Sam Harris is. He’s a virtuoso of the English language.
I’m a little surprised that Harris doesn’t seem to ‘get-it’. Benatar (IMO) makes an absolutely solid case for Antinatalism…
You said you could not afford steak. LIFE IS BAD. You know, 20 AmericF~~s can buy at least one. Maybe Send me an EMAIL?
I CAN afford baloney. Fortunately I like baloney. I figure that my life is better than that of those who can’t afford baloney…
As always, my offer is not lip service. If you need a hand up at your house, that may be a problem…You are sort of far away. But this I can do.
It just bothers me that a welfare mom can get $800 dollar in food stamps, while living with a man that makes 50,000 a year, and then, you can’t enjoy a good meal?
If I can buy the homeless man that cleans up the outside of the 7-eleven a pack of Pall-Malls this morning. Why not a steak? You can get a cheeseburger if you want? I won’t mind.
You are all alone. If you have been falsely accused of RAPE, DV, PLEASE let all men know about the people who did this. http://register-her.net/web/guest/home
I’ve listened to that podcast several times. Hehe.Many others about consciousness and reality. Very fascinating. I love how articulate Sam Harris is. He’s a virtuoso of the English language.
I’m a little surprised that Harris doesn’t seem to ‘get-it’. Benatar (IMO) makes an absolutely solid case for Antinatalism…
Yeah, he’s pretty good and I like the fact that he doesn’t like to talk about his personal life, makes it clear to everyone interviewing him and enforces it. With that being said, I thought that Harris actually got it more than Benatar himself.
When Sam says that if everyone died in their sleep tonight without pain, without knowing it in advance causing anguish, without anyone remaining after the fact leaving bereaved behind, that it would be a good thing, Benatar still believes it would be a bad thing.
Anyway, that’s how it sounded to me. Awww humans, the only species who can contemplate their own end.
if you like Harris, then read his book! The Moral Landscape. Harris’ books are solid material with good facts. His podcast is a waste of fvcking time though…a cash grab for hipster clicks
There are many problems with humanity, NONE of them come close to vindicating the idea of Voluntary Extinction. That is so melodramatic and fvcking EMO GOTH that I freaking laugh everytime I think about it.
retarded nihilist wannabe woe is me
ugghhhh!!! Life is unbearable, I wish I had never been born… Are you fvcking kidding me dude?
Dont make me have to kick your asses SpiderHerder and Autolite! You are supposed to be HAPPY atheists, not these fake ass LIFE haters.
I will send you to Enlightenment Boot Camp and you will learn by the numbers. I will teach you. You will SMILE. You will LAUGH. You will bask in the morning sunlight and thank your lucky stars.
Five years ago, a buddy’s dad was dying of cancer. He wasn’t supposed to smoke due to the oxygen tank in his house and my buddy called me to go over with him and confront his dad with the visiting nurse and seize any cigarettes in the house.
We went tactical and during the search warrant style operation, found four cartons of cigarettes he had been hiding in a box.
My buddy authorized me to get them out.
Neither one of us smoked though.
But I remembered outside of a bar I was at a week earlier, a retarded guy was outside asking people for cigarettes. And at one point picked a half smoked cigarette off the ground, lit it and smoked it. He wasn’t full blown retarded like Sean Penn in ‘I Am Sam’ but slightly more intelligent.
The bartender told me that guy lived in a group home about a mile away and would wait outside the bar and ask for cigarettes at night.
So I decided, help was on the way. I stopped first to buy a kick-A metal lighter at a convenience store that had a chick in a bikini on it as a bonus so he could light up in style. Pulled back into the parking lot of the bar, walked over to him and handed him all four cartons and the lighter.
He completely freaked out. Like in a retarded way. The way a retarded person would freak out and go full on mental. He was jumping up and down, screaming and laughing.
I went in, had a few beers and pumpkins that witnessed it all came over to talk to me and ask me why I did it.
I was joking when I told them, I had just robbed a convenience store and there was only $46 in the till so I made the clerk give me the cigarettes too. And it was like, the pumpkins didn’t even care. One of them looked at her girlfriend and said ‘Oh, my god’
And I joked and said I was a Robinhood for Retards. LOL
Anyway. Busted out of there and found out from a buddy a couple of months later that the same guy was outside the bar asking people when I would be back with more cigarettes.
if you like Harris, then read his book! The Moral Landscape. Harris’ books are solid material with good facts. His podcast is a waste of fvcking time though…a cash grab for hipster clicks There are many problems with humanity, NONE of them come close to vindicating the idea of Voluntary Extinction. That is so melodramatic and fvcking EMO GOTH that I freaking laugh everytime I think about it. retarded nihilist wannabe woe is me ugghhhh!!! Life is unbearable, I wish I had never been born… Are you fvcking kidding me dude? Dont make me have to kick your asses SpiderHerder and Autolite! You are supposed to be HAPPY atheists, not these fake ass LIFE haters. I will send you to Enlightenment Boot Camp and you will learn by the numbers. I will teach you. You will SMILE. You will LAUGH. You will bask in the morning sunlight and thank your lucky stars.
Mickey, Regarding the Pall-Malls, I got you beat on that one. Five years ago, a buddy’s dad was dying of cancer. He wasn’t supposed to smoke due to the oxygen tank in his house and my buddy called me to go over with him and confront his dad with the visiting nurse and seize any cigarettes in the house. We went tactical and during the search warrant style operation, found four cartons of cigarettes he had been hiding in a box. My buddy authorized me to get them out. Neither one of us smoked though. But I remembered outside of a bar I was at a week earlier, a retarded guy was outside asking people for cigarettes. And at one point picked a half smoked cigarette off the ground, lit it and smoked it. He wasn’t full blown retarded like Sean Penn in ‘I Am Sam’ but slightly more intelligent. The bartender told me that guy lived in a group home about a mile away and would wait outside the bar and ask for cigarettes at night. So I decided, help was on the way. I stopped first to buy a kick-A metal lighter at a convenience store that had a chick in a bikini on it as a bonus so he could light up in style. Pulled back into the parking lot of the bar, walked over to him and handed him all four cartons and the lighter. He completely freaked out. Like in a retarded way. The way a retarded person would freak out and go full on mental. He was jumping up and down, screaming and laughing. I went in, had a few beers and pumpkins that witnessed it all came over to talk to me and ask me why I did it. I was joking when I told them, I had just robbed a convenience store and there was only $46 in the till so I made the clerk give me the cigarettes too. And it was like, the pumpkins didn’t even care. One of them looked at her girlfriend and said ‘Oh, my god’ And I joked and said I was a Robinhood for Retards. LOL Anyway. Busted out of there and found out from a buddy a couple of months later that the same guy was outside the bar asking people when I would be back with more cigarettes.
As always, my offer is not lip service. If you need a hand up at your house, that may be a problem…You are sort of far away. But this I can do.
It just bothers me that a welfare mom can get $800 dollar in food stamps, while living with a man that makes 50,000 a year, and then, you can’t enjoy a good meal?
Thanks Bro. It’s most sincerely appreciated but I’m really doing fine. I’m not destitute. I do know how to ‘live it up’. Sometimes I’ll just go crazy and fix a meal of roast chicken and Minute Rice! Just like the rich folks…
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"What a great advantage a man can have over women, if he only knew what cold and calculating thoughts are going through her mind.... while her eyes are brimming with tears."
Gravel Pit 5 months, 1 week ago.
