Looking Back On Life…

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

Dont make me have to kick your asses SpiderHerder and Autolite! You are supposed to be HAPPY atheists, not these fake ass LIFE haters.

You make it sound like we’re trying to throw some sort of pity party which is not the case at all. Antinatalism just makes sense to us so we support the idea. It’s just the way we see it. It doesn’t make any sense to us to bring another human into this world knowing that their life will very most likely be ‘asymmetrically’ painful, miserable, difficult and disappointing. How do people justify doing so? Even Sky-0 fessed up that he got a vasectomy in order to eliminate the possibility of subjecting another human to the same childhood as he had.

Not everybody feels that life satisfactorily passes the cost-benefit ratio test. There is nothing wrong with non-existence. It’s a win-win. There will never be any pain, misery, hardship or sorrow experienced and you are not even aware of whatever scant pleasures that you might have missed. Where’s the downside to this?

Before SpiderHerder mentioned Antinatalism and I listened to David Benetar, I didn’t even know that there were others who felt the same…

[EGParticipant 1851]

Thank God the people I fnck can’t birth any babies! Hahahahahaaa I celebrate my inherent antinatalism every single day! Oh how much simpler my life has been because I can’t knock up a dude! I hate kids. I hated kids even when I was one myself!

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

It doesn’t make any sense to us to bring another human into this world knowing that their life will very most likely be ‘asymmetrically’ painful, miserable, difficult and disappointing.

dozens of Christmas’ and Birthdays, hundreds of presents … not worth being alive for… ?
water gun fights, legos, water balloons, cartoons, a first kiss, discovering your body and your ability to climax… not worth it ?
running around in camp grounds, wading through ponds, seeing your feet with fish swimming by, your first cigarette and first beer…. ya, not worth living for at all
losing your virginity, going to an NFL game, sleeping over at friends house and watching Star Wars all night …. why was I even born.
Earning your first $1000 and blowing it on video games, candy (*every single Halloween), laughing your ass off at your friends.
HIGH SCHOOL! ya, wish I hadnt been born, because ditching fourth period or 1st period all the time to smoke pot out of a beautiful Glass water bong was so miserable that life isnt worth it.
Joining the Marines, accomplishing incredible physical feats, using Machine guns and living through a foreign Tour of Iraq… ya that was not even worth the air I breathe.
Conquering the hardships of life and discovering sobriety and true presence and happiness. …

DUDE, life is better than NO LIFE. I wish you could find it….

Autolite wrote:

Even Sky-0 fessed up that he got a vasectomy in order to eliminate the possibility of subjecting another human to the same childhood as he had.

He got clipped because he doesnt want to be on the hook for a kid. He wanted to live life free of that conscious weight, free of that possibility. The sparing of possible future hardships is an afterthought…

Hardship is part of life, so is BLiss, Love, Joy and Pride! Its worth living. We need a freaking suicide hotline number for this BULLSH!T PESSIMISM…

Autolite wrote:

There will never be any pain, misery, hardship or sorrow experienced and you are not even aware of whatever scant pleasures that you might have missed. Where’s the downside to this?

The down side is that its INSANITY to say its better to not have been born. You apparently cant remember anything GOOD that happened in your life. Perhaps see a hypnotists and see if you can recall them. Record the session and play it back.

[Gravel PitParticipant]

You know Autolite. I survived a very serious attempt on my own life. I was a goner. I killed myself in the depths of a drinking binge.

I slit my own throat up with a kitchen knife, bled to death in a bath tub. A friend saw me do it. He called the Ambulance. I tried to fight the paramedics off as I was bleeding out — they had to Tazz me! I blacked out.

I woke up on a gurney trying to breathe. They were seeing if I was strong enough to breathe without help. I couldnt. I vividly remember suffocating right then and there, Red Out.

I woke up again after several days. I never drank again, that was 6 years ago

I was not a suicidal or depressed person. I was an alcoholic who would get sh!tface drunk and for some reason unknown to myself, because I had never done this before in my life, in the final months of my drinking I would get totally blitzed and self harm with a knife. I suffered three massive lacerations on my legs which I would not get stiches for. I would walk around with these open wounds for weeks still drinking and wondering why I did that while drunk. It got worse… up until that final night when I went straight for neck instead.

My argument for doing this, in my drunken state of mental insanity, was that I didnt want to live in a world full of people who believe in God and want to have wars over it. Most people believe in a God I knew wasnt there. I didnt want to be here anymore to watch these idiots hurting eachother over imaginary bullcrap. I was 27. it was 2013.

I would cry and I was a drunkard. I took myself out. I gave up on this life.

I lived! The mother fvcking surgeons will save you life without your permission. They will tranq you, sew up your neck and give you blood transfusion after blood transfusion and give you a pulse.

When I woke up 10 days later. I had had a emotional upheaval. Critical Emotional Mass had been reached. And you know what I discovered? I found that I VALUE being alive. I like Life.

I drank a 6 or a 12 pack DAILY for years… then I didnt drink a drop for over 6 years now.

LIFE IS WORTH LIVING. If you dont think so, you should see a doctor about some meds or possible stop drinking! If that is your real attitude about life, something is maybe wrong with you. I DONT KNOW, maybe Im wrong. Its concerning because I cant relate AT ALL to your train of thought. Its not a joke.

Usually, I can see where someone is coming from. But when it comes to topics like these, I cant understand.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

You apparently cant remember anything GOOD that happened in your life.

Well, I can certainly recall what were supposedly the ‘good times’ in my life but as the truth finally came out (whether it was concerning friends, family or realtionshhits) I was to realize that those ‘good times’ were just an illusion. Those memories have been permanently tarnished once it was learned what the people that I had shared them with really thought about me and who they really were.

But that’s perhaps a different topic for another thread…

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

I was an alcoholic who would get sh!tface drunk and for some reason unknown to myself, because I had never done this before in my life, in the final months of my drinking I would get totally blitzed

People get drunk and stoned to dull their sensory input as a coping mechanism for life’s miseries. Nonexistence is the ultimate sensory input ‘kill’ yet you claim not to understand why some people might prefer it…

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

those ‘good times’ were just an illusion. Those memories have been permanently tarnished once it was learned what the people that I had shared them with really thought about me and who they really were.

now we are getting somewhere. WHO HURT YOU? lol, just kidding. dude, we were all hurt by them and we hurt them too. It wasnt just them, we had a role in it.

Sometimes BIRDs take a big sh!t on your car. Its not they are sh!tting on YOU, they are just sh!tting. you just happened to be there.

Now, show us on the doll where they hurt you. Point to the spot. Yes, we know …

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

Nonexistence is the ultimate sensory input ‘kill’ yet you claim not to understand

I understand perfectly well because I pushed that Kill Switch button HARD.
What I found out is that I was a very sick person and not thinking straight. The sickness was due to pouring LOADS of freaking alcohol into my body everyday while trying to make sense of a world that hates boys and men. They didnt care about me and I didnt care about myself. I had EPIC proportions of shame, guilt, regret and hate.

I stopped caring about anything but continuing to drink more. And finally I let go of trying to control that numbing agent, that is when it killed me, it made me so psychological unpredictable that I offed myself. I was very lucky to live. Nonexistence is boring, life is interesting and worth living.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

dozens of Christmas’ and Birthdays, hundreds of presents … not worth being alive for… ?

Further to a previous post, my parents lavished us kids with gifts and presents. It was profane the amount of stuff that they gave us. But afterwards my Father would always play that against us. He would constantly tell us how unappreciative and undeserving we were of all stuff that we were given. It would phuck with my little kid brain and it confused me. I always felt like shhit whenever he again gave me something or do something for me because I knew that at some point he would play it against me and make me feel like shhit all over again.

Latter in life I had a GF comment telling me that she didn’t understand why I disliked receiving gifts…

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

Nonexistence is boring, life is interesting and worth living.

Well after experiencing life and having come from nonexistence I guess it’s just boils down to being a subjective and individual judgement call for each of us…

[Gravel PitParticipant]

things are going to get better

[AutoliteParticipant]

Gravel Pit wrote:

things are going to get better

Thanks but that might be expecting a little too much. Right now I think I’d just settle for things not getting worse at an exponentially increasing pace. Yeah, that would work well enough I think…

[Old CurmudgeonParticipant 31]

One thing about life that they need to tell you is that it is a live game from day one and the only game that counts. Withdraw from the game and you are losing.

As the computer concluded in War Games (80s film) “the only way to win is not to play the game”. Very wise, that.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Old Curmudgeon wrote:

One thing about life that they need to tell you is that it is a live game from day one and the only game that counts. Withdraw from the game and you are losing.
As the computer concluded in War Games (80s film) “the only way to win is not to play the game”. Very wise, that.

And ‘not ever starting to play the game’ is exactly the idea that Antinatalists are promoting…

[AutoliteParticipant]

“MAKE YOU WISH YOU WERE NEVER BORN”

This phrase ^^^ (used as a threat) has always puzzled me. I never really understood how it was that anyone could be so grateful that they were born. The threat never made any sense to me and it just sounded really lame. It’s part of the reason that I now find the Antinatalism philosophy so interesting. I hadn’t previously realized that their were others who felt the same as I. For me, this has been the biggest eye opener since discovering MGTOW.

Benatar posits that our lives consists mostly of pain, suffering, struggle and misery with only brief scant moments of pleasure. He claims that “The bad far outweighs the good” and that it is human nature for us to delude ourselves to believe otherwise. Would anyone here dispute this???

(Check out the attached David Benatar interview and the comments. Antinatalism is counter human/natural instinct but as one person who comments puts it the logic of it is irrefutable)

[Branched offParticipant 10922]

This has been a really good thread. I feared it was going to go off course but people have persisted with each other politely and kindly on both sides and I feel things it has been a good exercise. I think that there are two different types of people in MGTOW and this thread is bringing that out. There are those who whether by nature or as a result of hard knocks from life innately don’t want to “play the game” and those who like the game of life but feel it is just unfairly rigged against men these days.

When it comes to Davis Benatar I think that Mr Benatar has high desires to receive good things. He also thinks that bad things are a lot worse than they actually are. Pain unless, unbearable, is just like bad weather -its part of life. Pleasure is not the goal in life, its just a bonus. If life is a journey, pleasure is just a good view on the way or a nice section of road for driving. Satisfaction and achievement are the goals I seek in life. I seek to avoid pain and misery but I expect to receive more mild distress in life than pleasure. Any man who has climbed any large mountain will tell you its more uncomfortable than pleasurable, at times painful and sometimes frightening but yet there are few who would tell you the climb was not worthwhile.

This is the argument I would use to counter Mr Benatar’s question of if you would trade unbearable pain for sublime pleasure. Would you trade one of your best mountain summits for an hour of sublime pleasure? You will suffer for days for that mountain summit. I would trade a day’s walk in the rain up a minor sheep poo covered summit for a day of sublime pleasure yes but that is only because I have major summits in the bank. I would not trade one of my first ascents of a virgin mountain for a year of sublime pleasures, yet I feared for my life making unprotected and (personally) irreversible rock climbing moved into the unknown, slept in horrible spots, nearly froze to death, carried huge loads up moraines, crossed wet snow bridges on a glacier, spent 36 hours without sleep on the final push, trained for months, failed on my first attempt and went home in shame, spent large sums of money on the whole process and only got achy knees, mosquito bites, blisters and burned skin to show for it all. It was dam well worth it. So are life’s achievements.

Life is a challenge from day one. It is a struggle against entropy and one we all ultimately lose. Yet if we pass the baton to the next generation and they run well enough entropy is defeated for another generation. Generations of humans have overcome entropy and pushed the next generation a bit further forward so as to rise form being mere naked monkeys to being naked monkeys with computers and guns and chocolate and cars and aeroplanes, monkeys who understand the secrets of the earth and sky and sea. Its pretty cool. When I sit and watch the dawn in the woods I am only doing what my stone age ancestors did -waiting for the deer, so I can take one home to eat and I expect they enjoyed it and felt as enlivened by it as I do (probably more so actually). However I am inside a warm set of modern clothes, I am armed with a modern rifle with an awesome scope, a thermal imager, a pocket full of chocolate, a phone I can check a radar map of the weather on. I can also quote the bible, homer, virgil and shakespear and I have some rough knowledge of physics. I am still a naked monkey out to get some food but a lot has been added to me by my ancestors who fought entropy to pass a little more on to the point where I am just sitting there for pleasure really. I thank all my ancestors for making the effort to suffer to put me here. If even one had not bothered, I would not exist to know and see the things I know and see. I will do my bit on my leg of the relay and I would sooner die than drop the baton. (And yes it is possible to die rather than drop the baton because I have seen it done).

A woman is like fire -fun to play with, can warm you through and cook your food, needs constant feeding, can burn you and consume all you own

[AutoliteParticipant]

Branched off wrote:

Life is a challenge from day one. It is a struggle against entropy and one we all ultimately lose.

It just boils down as to whether or not it is all ‘worth-it’. Are whatever pleasures we might get worth the misery and suffering endured? We all have had different experiences, good and bad. We all have different levels of tolerance for the bad. I guess being ‘worth-it’ is just really a matter of personal subjective individual opinion.

The one big universal question is should we be bringing nonexistent people into this world when there is no way of knowing whether or not they would really want to be here? Aninatalists and Benatar are saying we should assume that the default answer is “NO”. And being wrong about this wouldn’t even mattter as the person doesn’t exist to begin with.

It would not be wrong to deny pleasure to someone who does not exist particularly when you consider that their life would very most likely be asymmetrically miserable anyway…

[Sky-OParticipant 18934]

😠’Wish I was never born. . .’

👩 ‘Then kill yourself’

😠 ‘No’

[AutoliteParticipant]

Sky-O wrote:

’Wish I was never born. . .’
‘Then kill yourself’
‘No’

As Benatar points out, once we exist we are endowed with a ‘desire to live’… our survival instinct. It’s that instinct that drives us to live even when life might otherwise be unbearable. It’s what keeps most of us going even when we know that it isn’t really ‘worth-it’. I know that you understand this Sky-0 and that you’re just being facetious.

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

He claims that “The bad far outweighs the good” and that it is human nature for us to delude ourselves to believe otherwise. Would anyone here dispute this???

I dispute the living p!$$ out of that! ITS SUBJECTIVE! Its subjective…. for the last time, its an emotional outburst on par with female caprice, puerile thinking and a hallmark of clinical depression!

“outweighs the good” ??? One would have to conclude that Benatar has had an Iron Spike lodged in his anal cavity since birth.

[Author]

Posts