Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Will Brexit finally bring on a United Ireland? long
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sidecar 1 month, 2 weeks ago.
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I wanted to ask some of you U.K. guys what you think. For those who don’t know Irish History. England/Great Britain has controlled all or at least part of the island of Ireland since the 12th century. In the 17th century the British Empire established a colony in the province of Ulster, the NE corner of Ireland, removing the native Irish and turning the land to settlers from Scotland and Northern England. Their decendants remain there today. In 1921, after centuries of failed revolts, Ireland finally gained independence and established its own government in Dublin. The price of this was a partitioning of the island. The six NE counties where the British decents or Protestants were the majority, remained part of the UK. In 1969, after centuries of terrible discrimination the native Irish or Catholics revolted in a bloody civil war that lasted for 30 years. The results was a power sharing agreement known as the Good Friday accords, which brought a soft border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, and it finally brought peace. However, part of agreement was sometime in the future if the majority of the people in NI vote to join the Republic, then the British government would pack and be gone for the first time 800 years.
Here’s what is happening and will likely happen in the near future.
1. This election yesterday brought a strong conservative majority to the British parliament. This will guarantee Brexit. Because of Brexit, Northern Ireland will no longer be part of the EU, whereas the Republic will. A hard border where people and goods will have to pass through customs will have to be reestablished. This will cause enormous hardship in NI.
2. Economically the Republic has run circles around NI. Ireland is one the top five richest countries in the world. Average annual income and life quality far exceeds that of NI. In NI 80 percent of the people live on government money, retirement funds, government jobs, or welfare. NI is leach on the already burdened British taxpayers. Whereas, the Republic is an economic powerhouse and it shows. There is little to no poverty in Ireland.
3. The Catholic church which was an enormous barrier to any reconciliation has lost it’s political control of the Irish people. You can even get an abortion now.
4. Most important the demographics have changed. Martin McGuinnes and Jerry Adams, the leaders of Sinn Fien party who made the Good Friday treaty, saw this coming back in the nineties. The Catholics are now the majority in four of the six counties. The Protestants are only the majority in Greater Belfast. The next census in 2021 will clearly prove the Protestants are now the minority
in a hodgepodge of a country that was created for them. Then there also a growing minority of Asia and African immigrants who have no historic ties to either country.
5. When you look at the demographics the Protestants still have a majority in people over age 60. From 40-60 its about even. Under age 40 Catholics are a clear majority. With every young Catholic who comes of voting age and every old sash wearing Orangeman that dies the clock is ticking.This all adds up to the fact that the ancient dream of Ireland, united under one free democratic government, that so many have fought and died for, may be a reality in the very near future.
Interesting. Good to see some intelligent questions here.
I have pondered this one too. In short I think it is unlikely. This is not so much because of the impossibility of a vote being in favour of it but because of the certainty of many unionists saying “over my dead body” and meaning it literally. It would be an explosive thing that both governments would be quite wise to avoid (particularly the Irish who would be taking in a small but utterly determined group of people who have shared a mutual hatred with them for 4 centuries).
While the average Brit is not too wedded to the idea of the unionists remaining within the union -they are an awkward and selfish bunch (as shown by the conservatives making an alliance with them getting used by them and getting nothing of value in return). The average unionist has a much stronger view.
A woman is like fire -fun to play with, can warm you through and cook your food, needs constant feeding, can burn you and consume all you own
That will be their first reaction. I expect there will be some violence, but if the vote is to leave the UK, then they’ll get no backing from London, and they’ll realize their cause is utterly hopeless. Besides that, the younger generation that has grown up since Good Friday doesn’t really give a damn about the union with GB and are not going to risk death or a lifetime in prison for a lost cause.
After Boris Johnson finished his victory speech last night, it was reported that the first place he want to was Buckingham Palace. Clearly things are happening behind the scenes.
It is likely the UK nationalists want to return to a sovereign nation, even if it means giving up Northern Ireland and Scotland.
The winner of the UK general election always goes to the palace first. He has to have the queen’s permission to form a government.
I am afraid that the Northern Ireland situation is a perfect example of how immigration can be a very long term problem. When a body of people enter a country and have no interest in assuming the customs of that land, then they become insular and will remain the enemies of the indigenous people. Todays’ hip and trendy liberals just don’t get it but history has the lessons laid out plain. Maybe you are right and the good Friday agreement brought a permanent peace to Northern Ireland but I sincerely doubt it. It goes so much deeper than people realise. The two sides can’t even cooperate enough to run their own parliament as government and opposition. The building stands empty and Britain rules direct because they can’t agree even to disagree! One should never say never with questions of politics but I would give it less than 10% of a united ireland coming out of Brexit in the next 50 years. If there is one thig the brexit referendum taught the political classes it was don’t give the people referenda.
If the Jocks want to pee off and be miserable with their midgies Englishmen will celebrate all over this land. Scotland costs far more than it is worth and its people enjoy a higher standard of living than the English thanks to an antiquated funding formula (Barnet formula). Furthermore the scots have made it so plain that they hate no people on earth as much as the English that frankly they are asking for the fall and if they do fall it will be unfortunate but not violent. Northern Ireland, however is a powder keg. I very much doubt the scots will get allowed another referendum in this generation following the lesson learned from Brexit (and they will now know how hard it is to dismantle a union so I doubt there is enough genuine appetite for it anyway). The northern Irish politicians would have to be able agree to run a p~~~ up in a brewery before they could even organise a to lobby for a referendum. Then someone would have to allow them to light the fuse.
A woman is like fire -fun to play with, can warm you through and cook your food, needs constant feeding, can burn you and consume all you own
This all adds up to the fact that the ancient dream of Ireland, united under one free democratic government, that so many have fought and died for, may be a reality in the very near future.
Actually, the British government has been trying to get out of Ireland for nearly a century, but domestic political considerations prevented this from becoming a reality.
The EU plan for Europe has Ireland as a single entity – not a STATE – but as a PROVINCE of the EU superstate.
Economically the Republic has run circles around NI.
NI relied for its prosperity on trade and shipbuilding, both of which have gone elsewhere. For purely political reasons successive governments have poured money into the province but they were flogging a dead horse.
During this period, Eire was a Third World country, with widespread poverty.
Ireland is one the top five richest countries in the world. […] Whereas, the Republic is an economic powerhouse and it shows.
Not true. The much publicised ‘Celtic Tiger’ is nothing of the sort (notice how we don’t hear that phrase any more?). It’s a vast bubble.
What happened is that the EU (which means Germany), wanted to gain control of the Irish vote. This was achieved by pouring vast quantities of money into Ireland. The standard of living rose dramatically. The politicians and the people were hooked.
Once they were hooked the trap snapped shut. The Irish then found that they had to swallow all sorts of nasty things, because of they didn’t the money would be cut off and the country would collapse overnight.
The Germans quite literally bought themselves a country. The whole process only took 3 years.
This election yesterday brought a strong conservative majority to the British parliament. This will guarantee Brexit.
It guarantees nothing. Johnson was a great fan of the EU until UKIP went big, at which time he suddenly experienced a Damascene conversion, and backed by big money, grabbed control of the ‘anti-EU’ campaign.
Go figure.
Johnson has already hinted that it ‘may take longer’. There might be a Brexit on paper, but examination of the small print will reveal that nothing has changed.
It is likely the UK nationalists want to return to a sovereign nation, even if it means giving up Northern Ireland and Scotland.
For some years there has been a push for a solely English parliament.
If the Jocks want to pee off and be miserable with their midgies Englishmen will celebrate all over this land. Scotland costs far more than it is worth and its people enjoy a higher standard of living than the English thanks to an antiquated funding formula (Barnet formula). Furthermore the scots have made it so plain that they hate no people on earth as much as the English that frankly they are asking for the fall …
True.
Northern Ireland, however is a powder keg. I very much doubt the scots will get allowed another referendum in this generation …
The EU plan for Europe has Scotland as a PROVINCE – not a STATE – of the EU superstate. So a referendum was on the cards at some point.
What happened however is that the situation spun out of control with the SNP taking off to a degree that was unanticipated. It is possible that may actually declare UDI in the near future.
A hard border where people and goods will have to pass through customs will have to be reestablished.
Gloom and doomery. You’re pushing a false dichotomy. Borders don’t have to be hard or soft. They can, in fact, be hard for some and soft for others. I suspect the north ireland border will be soft for the Irish, but hard for E.U. carpetbaggers.
The whole irish border issue has always been a red herring designed to interfere with the the mandate from the people to leave the EU. It’s a paper issue, and nothing more.
This will cause enormous hardship in NI.
Yet more gloom and doomery.
Economically blah blah blah
On the contrary, Ireland is one of the weakest, most unstable economies in the entire eurozone, enough so that they’re included in the list of PIIGS. Ireland’s economy is, at best, schizophrenic. Meanwhile, NI is a welfare state, but then so is all of the UK. A large part of the reason for Brexit is they can’t afford any more dependents.
You can even get an abortion now.
Only under certain conditions.
A soft theocratic “republic” is still a theocracy.
united under one free democratic government,
Read again: theocracy.
The irish have no true right to free speech, self protection, or self determination. They are not free. It is not a true democracy.
And this is not the politics board.
When it comes to this famous border its not at all impractical. Look at Switzerland -a non Eu country with borders onto many EU states. You can usually just drive across with say a few boxes of cigars (which are very cheap in Switzerland) without even seeing a human. The technology exists. It is just that for their own political reasons that the several parties cannot agree on this one.
The EU knows its a great way to pressure the UK in negotiations and had this election gone differently it might have been the thing that actually stopped Brexit and saved the EU from a funding crisis.
Then you have the Unionists who see it as a chance to bugger everything up by refusing to budge a yard of their ancient Orangemen tracks and by doing so make themselves more important than they are- which is their favourite activity.
The Republicans know they can use it as a trigger to say their Irishness is under threat from the British, which is a chance to give their cause a shot in the arm which has been lacking since they stopped being the “victims” of arrests for blowing stuff up.
Northern Ireland is a hot potato that no one wants but that the British have to deal with because Old Ollie Cromwell started something that was left unfinished. (He began the unnecessary ethnic cleansing of a province).
A woman is like fire -fun to play with, can warm you through and cook your food, needs constant feeding, can burn you and consume all you own
It was reported that The Tories made a deal Sinn Fein that exchange for the Tories backing out of a few key elections in Northern Ireland, the Sinn Fein allying with the Tories. Due to this, Sinn Fein won some of those elections.
While a United Ireland might not officially be in the political table. It is likely the matter is unofficially on the table.
The reason is simple. Logistics. One of the main sticking points in Brexit is if there is a Brexit there will no longer free travel between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Due to the open border, the situation is a lot calmer in the Isle of Ireland. The UK allowing Northern Ireland some form of autonomy might solve this problem. But, if the Tories want Brexit, this issue needs to be addressed.
A soft theocratic “republic” is still a theocracy.
True.
The phrase ‘priest-ridden’ has always applied to Ireland, and it still does. The church’s grip on the populace has slackened somewhat – mainly amongst the urban young – but in many areas it’s still practically medieval.
Northern Ireland is a hot potato that no one wants but that the British have to deal with because Old Ollie Cromwell started something that was left unfinished. (He began the unnecessary ethnic cleansing of a province).
Cromwell only went into Ireland because the country had often been used as launch pad by the Catholic powers – France and Spain. Scotland likewise (the ‘Auld Alliance’). Both also had a long history of brutal raids into England and Wales.
Both like to present themselves as victims of English aggression, but this is tosh.
While a United Ireland might not officially be in the political table. It is likely the matter is unofficially on the table.
Undoubtedly true.
The British government wants out and has done so for a very long time. The DUP is a pain in the arse, and the province is nothing but a giant money sponge.
The problem is how to achieve this. It’s the political fallout on the mainland that’s the stumbling block. There is a rise in feeling that the time has come for a split, but it’s nowhere as strong as it needs to be to effect change on that scale.
The UK allowing Northern Ireland some form of autonomy might solve this problem.
This has been tried, but chaos always ensues.
Ideally NI would be treated as a woman – ‘You wanted it, you voted for it (the EU), you’ve got it. Goodbye’. I would get shot of Gibraltar for the same reason.
Monk, I quite agree with you that everyone loves to say they were the victims of England just because England won. What would the reality of the other vision have been -a bunch of chaotic lords living off the backs of a poor agricultural people and possessing shifting alliances yet all the while being used by greater powers as a spring board to invading England? It would not have brought peace unless one of the other powers had defeated England and also successfully subdued Ireland. In the end a conqueror was needed to bring peace, whether English, French, Spanish or other.
Cromwell was a very thorough man who was also the most powerful ruler England has had since the early Norman kings, maybe even more absolute in his power than the Norman kings as he had not even got to bend to Rome (he even managed to cancel Christmas) and had no formal ties to his warlords. When Cromwell went in he meant business but he did not rule for too long. It is hard to judge from this distance if Cromwell needed to burn quite so many people alive in churches or massacre quite as many towns as he did. These things leave deep scars. My personal view was he was more heavy handed than was ideal. If one is going to be heavy handed one needs to destroy a people comprehensively not just wound them. He settled his own folk in Ulster and that worked but he did nothing to bring the dispossessed people to feel they were stakeholders and so began centuries of hatred that have yet to play out. One needs to see the long view.
A woman is like fire -fun to play with, can warm you through and cook your food, needs constant feeding, can burn you and consume all you own
After Boris Johnson finished his victory speech last night, it was reported that the first place he want to was Buckingham Palace. Clearly things are happening behind the scenes.
It is likely the UK nationalists want to return to a sovereign nation, even if it means giving up Northern Ireland and Scotland.I don’t want to see Northern Ireland leave the union but I’d happily wave those ungrateful Scottish c~~~s goodbye
Fishwoman isn’t stupid because like any good socalist she uses other people’s money and it is English money she spends like water. THAT is why the SNP want to stay in the EU – she is hoping to curry favour so the EU pay what the English do…I doubt they will and most actual Scots probably realise the same so any new referendum will end up with Scotland staying in the UK
The Scottish are like spoilt children who get given everything but resent their parents for it…an awful people
If alcohol did not exist:
Ireland would have settled and controlled the original 13 colonies in America.
And if those colonies had revolted in 1776, the revolution would have been over by 1777.
With every colony being reformed and governed as New Ireland.Point is. . .
In the absence of alcohol, England would have never been in a position to control northern Ireland. England would have become Ireland’s b•tch by the late 1200s
If alcohol did not exist:
Ireland would have settled and controlled the original 13 colonies in America.
And if those colonies had revolted in 1776, the revolution would have ended by 1777.
With every colony being reformed and governed as New Ireland.
Point is. . .
In the absence of alcohol, England would have never been in a position to control northern Ireland. England would have become Ireland’s b•tch by the late 1200sWhat?!
Fishwoman isn’t stupid because like any good socalist she uses other people’s money and it is English money she spends like water. THAT is why the SNP want to stay in the EU – she is hoping to curry favour so the EU pay what the English do…
Yes.
Her plan and the hope of many Scots, is to join the EU in the belief that money will rain down on them. Unfortunately for her, the EU is broke – Deutsche bank is bust and the Germany economy is cracking under the strain of propping up its voting bloc in eastern Europe.
They simply cannot afford to take on another economic basket case – a situation multiplied by the prospect of the only other money tree in Europe – Britain – leaving the EU.
This is why she has been told ‘No’, only she is too dumb to get it and too crazy to listen.
I doubt they will and most actual Scots probably realise the same so any new referendum will end up with Scotland staying in the UK
I have no doubt that their hatred of the English will override all other considerations.
In the absence of alcohol, England would have never been in a position to control northern Ireland. England would have become Ireland’s b•tch by the late 1200s
Actually, although the image of the drunken Irishman is well known, historically the English have always been known for their hard drinking.
The prospect of having English soldiery billeted on your town was not something to look forward to.
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