Two MGTOW contradict each other.

[VeniversumParticipant 492]

“Turd Flinging Monkey” released this video, that claims that a Utopian type of society cannot be created because of the biological instincts of men to compete for women: https://youtu.be/8rgNPhETuDI

“Sandman” released this video stating that men will no longer need to compete for women, because their biological functions will be replaced by technology: https://youtu.be/SfDfjIILkJQ

Can they both be correct? I’m leaning more towards Sandman’s point of view, due to the fact that MGTOW’s existence is a rational response, and proof that men no longer wish to compete for women, because there is more liability than there is benefit. Once technology can provide a man with all of the benefits that a woman would provide, then women will be reduce to only a liability. In a civilization of abundance, why bother murdering each other? Clearly there would be more to lose, than to gain. Right

[VeniversumParticipant 492]

Discrediting the speaker, i.e. “Ad Hominem” is not a valid form of argument. What are your thoughts on the actual subject? Wasn’t the point of you becoming a MGTOW to drop out of competition for women? Do you consider women to be a liability? Why did you become a MGTOW?

[RockmaninoffParticipant 1641]

Can someone give me a TL;DR version of what happened with Sandman’s reputation? All I know is that he was super respected and then all the sudden people thought he was a piece of s~~~.

". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée

[Blue SkiesParticipant 15665]

TFM is right……….most men will become slaves to biological instincts…..because these instincts are very powerful and have been perfected through 100000 yrs of evolution. MGTOW are men who are not slaves…..because of experience and discipline

MGTOW is not a movement, it is a way of life.

[VeniversumParticipant 492]

Blue Skies wrote:

TFM is right……….most men will become slaves to biological instincts…..because these instincts are very powerful and have been perfected through 100000 yrs of evolution. MGTOW are men who are not slaves…..because of experience and discipline

But, isn’t it true that more and more men are simply dropping from the competition by having access to pornography, alone? In the future, when women can be replaced by sex dolls, virtual reality, etc for pleasure, and artificial wombs for biological functions, why should any man compete for a woman? They would be all liability and no benefit, correct? (They are already mostly a liability)

[VeniversumParticipant 492]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/12/04/the-sexodus-part-1-the-men-giving-up-on-women-and-checking-out-of-society/

[BurgundyParticipant 1525]

Wouldn’t call Sandman a mgtow, he’s proven again and again, to walk the line of double standards, and shaming mgtows, who doesn’t agree with his points of views, he’s tried to co-opt mgtow a few times, with calls for the plantation too.

Turd flinging Monkey is right on the money, we men are sadly biologically made to fight for women, these urges may subside as time passes, but it’s always a thing you need to account for and think about, when you interact, in groups.

Also women won’t allow artificial wombs to become a reality, unless women hold the power over them, as well, just as women would want sex robots banned, before they even exist, lol. Remember that booze, liquor, drugs, games, and special kind of sports often gets banned by the will of women.

Also, why the f~~~ would you waste your precious time on becoming a breeder? Children are expensive, and time consuming, any man, with ambitions, greater than that of ordinary men, don’t have time for children, any way.

[VeniversumParticipant 492]

Burgundy wrote:

Wouldn’t call Sandman a mgtow, he’s proven again and again, to walk the line of double standards, and shaming mgtows, who doesn’t agree with his points of views, he’s tried to co-opt mgtow a few times, with calls for the plantation too.

Turd flinging Monkey is right on the money, we men are sadly biologically made to fight for women, these urges may subside as time passes, but it’s always a thing you need to account for and think about, when you interact, in groups.

Also women won’t allow artificial wombs to become a reality, unless women hold the power over them, as well, just as women would want sex robots banned, before they even exist, lol. Remember that booze, liquor, drugs, games, and special kind of sports often gets banned by the will of women.

So you don’t think that MGTOW philosophies will ever reach critical mass? Don’t artificial wombs already exist? Test tube babies do. Granted, the general populace is restricted access via financial constraints. Why should anyone compete for a woman if they can get better pleasure from their devices than they do from women, and superior genetically engineered offspring?

[Blue SkiesParticipant 15665]

Sandman is probably a MGTOW but he often goes off topic on his videos just to take up more time and make $$

MGTOW is not a movement, it is a way of life.

[Blue SkiesParticipant 15665]

Rockmaninoff wrote:

Can someone give me a TL;DR version of what happened with Sandman’s reputation? All I know is that he was super respected and then all the sudden people thought he was a piece of s~~~.

i would like to know ppl’s opinion about this because i only recently started watching Sandman

MGTOW is not a movement, it is a way of life.

[VeniversumParticipant 492]

If men were all peaceful with one another the women would stir up trouble between them, I believe most women are closet hybristophiliacs. Violence loving.

All the more reason why men of the future are less likely to continue competing for them, especially if there are easier options

[OldBillParticipant]

Veniversum wrote:

Discrediting the speaker, i.e. “Ad Hominem” is not a valid form of argument.

True, but there is also a difference between the ad hominem logical fallacy and “considering the source”. Because of the changes in his life, Sandman is no longer a MGTOW. While his opinion may be of use in some matters, the fact that he is no longer a MGTOW needs to be remembered.

Returning to your original question, technology has not, does not, and will not substantially change human behavior. The “civilization of abundance” argument fails under even a cursory examination. For example, those portions of US society who has it’s the daily basic needs and more met by government hand-outs routinely butcher each other on a scale not seen outside of the Third World. While they have everything need, they have none of what they desire.

The poor will always be with us. Not those poor in material goods as they enjoy a tax-funded abundance which would seem luxurious to those only a few generations ago, but those poor in spirit, intellect, self discipline, self worth, and the other attributes of wisdom.

We need to stop waiting to be saved by technology and others. We need to start saving ourselves.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Blue SkiesParticipant 15665]

OldBill wrote:

True, but there is also a difference between the ad hominem logical fallacy and “considering the source”. Because of the changes in his life, Sandman is no longer a MGTOW. While his opinion may be of use in some matters, the fact that he is no longer a MGTOW needs to be remembered.

That’s unfortunate, because sandman is by far the most popular youtuber who talks about MGTOW

MGTOW is not a movement, it is a way of life.

[VeniversumParticipant 492]

OldBill wrote:

We need to stop waiting to be saved by technology and others. We need to start saving ourselves.

Personally, to me, other people’s opinions of Sandman have no relevance to the subject, and quite frankly I don’t care about any imaginary drama between him and other members. As for saving ourselves, isn’t that what developing technology is all about, and what it’s always been about? I just don’t see any reason why I should fight anyone over a woman, if I can have all of the benefits and none of the liability provided to me by technology. To me it seems that it wouldn’t be long before all of the other men, especially the ones getting defeated in the competition, were to arrive at the same conclusion. We simply don’t need women anymore. That’s the entire thought process behind MGTOW. It makes no sense to me that a group of people who believe we don’t need women think that we can never have peace because we supposedly will always fight over women. It’s both irony and hypocrisy simultaneously

[GrumpyParticipant]

Veniversum wrote:

But, isn’t it true that more and more men are simply dropping from the competition by having access to pornography, alone? In the future, when women can be replaced by sex dolls, virtual reality, etc for pleasure, and artificial wombs for biological functions, why should any man compete for a woman? They would be all liability and no benefit, correct? (They are already mostly a liability)

True or not, I don’t believe it is having access to porn alone. Considering, as a straight man I would be searching for porn exclusively performed by women. (that is just me)
I’m more inclined to subscribe to the idea that more and more men are not competing for women, due to the “prize” for winning being more of a social, economic, physical, and emotional liability than an asset. Sort of like fighting your friends to see who gets the honour of charging a machine gun nest head on first.
That’s just my 2 cents
I may be crazy, but I’m not stupid

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[BurgundyParticipant 1525]

Those, who don’t know why Sandman got “shot down”.

I’m sure people who has watched him for long enough, will notice his opinions changes quite often, but worse, he likes to attack other mgtows on youtube, who doesn’t share his opinions, he seems more like an attention whore, who is willing to resort to under the belt attacks, to make himself look a little better.

In the end, you simply should never follow another man, listen to their wisdom, perhaps, but always come to your own conclusions.

@veniversum There will probably be a mgtow critical mass, but it won’t start by making artificial wombs, it will first be about attacking the single man somehow, followed by more desperate means, and then, several generations later, will end in some odd ball tradcon attempt, maybe something for the MRAs, but in the end MGTOWs won’t care.

If you think there will be a solution, that you speak of, in our life time, you will need to hold your breath for a couple eons more. Also why bother with that, just go your own way, and make the best of it, and aim for whatever you ever desired to achieve, or simply enjoy the life you got, how you see fit.

[ScandinavianParticipant 590]

I think both are in some extent wrong, though TFM was closer on track (in another video I believe).
Let me elaborate; in todays environment we have the luxury of separating sex and reproduction in a way many previous generations did not, as such we can use a woman purely for sexual gratification or reproduction without the two necessarily coinciding. Also remember that a quite large group of men choose not to have children, or at least do not actively wish to reproduce, in a higher degree than their female counterparts. Therefor the holy “biological competition” may not be an issue for a rather large percentage of men.
What TFM has pointed out though is that sex toys (even rather life-like ones) does not sell very well as alot of men don’t only seek sexual gratification but more importantly companionship. That is a point I think many miss when they focus on orgasms (which is pretty much the same physical phenomenon no matter if it is intercourse or masturbation) or the almost religious need to use past evolution as a future predeterminate.

My personal take on it is that I think we will see an increase in people (mainly men) going solo through life despite what technology and legal framework and whatnot have to offer in the future. The reason for this is simply because we don’t NEED to group up anymore! Until rather recently (from a historical perspective) one couldn’t survive for very long alone, we have only had a few generations that has had this tremendous opportunity and I am quite certain that we as a species have kept (or at least tried to keep) the old family system out of tradition and bad habit. Once we get to see this generation (we are the first in which a majority live alone in some nations) die out, the next ones will have something to relate to, and can based on facts see how it impacted our happiness or misery depending on what our legacy will tell.

Last but not least; I refuse to give Sandman a view, so I just take your summary for what he says on the topic.

[VeniversumParticipant 492]

Thank you, Grumpy. You have addressed, head on, exactly what my point is. Eventually though, a machine will be able to do it better with significantly less effort and no risk of sexually transmitted disease, pregnancy, irrational behavior, etc; or if you want a child you can just have one provided to you by Science. I’m actually looking forward to it.

[MonkeyMindParticipant 5340]

Turd flinging Monkey seems to do more research on what he comments on while Sandman leans more towards giving opinion pieces.

I’m still unsure on Sandman, he seems to produce a lot of content given that he’s a one man operation. I wonder how he finds the time to do it by himself. I wouldn’t be suprised if it was a group of people writing the articles and he was the front of the operation. That’s pure speculation on my part.

[GrumpyParticipant]

Our real problem is the manginas. The women we can ignore.

I am stealing this piece of truth 🙂

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[Author]

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