Societal Collapse of Western Culture

[Branched offParticipant 10936]

Good topic Raj, with a pretty sensible choice of timescale too I think.

I think it is too early to be sure of the timescale but yours is as reasonable as any.

Yes we will climb back out of the dark ages. Dark ages are never that bad anyway. People tend to be freer and art and higher thought do continue, just not in such regimented doctrinal ways. A dark age is basically an age where civilisation is not too evident. That is not to say people have bad lives, they just do not live in complex societies with a lot of regulation and tax and such.

Can we avoid it? Possibly. It depends if the bubble of decadence deflates or bursts. Can democratic governments manage a decline in living standards? is the big one. Will the people reject the governments repeatedly or force them to spend on the wrong areas causing chaos that is easy for warlords to exploit?

Sometimes if environmental disaster strikes when civilisations are weak then civilisations can disappear in a generation or two. If the decline is slower, then conflict gradually increases as resources grow thinner. This can lead to a break down of a culture and a the end of a civilisation as smaller self regulating units (like tribes and clans) prove to be more efficient. It can also lead to harsh totalitarian regimes where a warrior class “protect” ordinary folk who live in poverty to support their “protectors” (this is generally some sort of feudalism -like the Celtic/ Scots cultures or the more formalised Norman model).

One can sometimes see a lot of inner conflict and social unrest for a century or two before a collapse -like in the case of ancient Rome.

Right now we are just at the choppy top of the wave, it is hard to say what the ride down will be like. But in the end there will be less free rides given by government as resources dwindle. This will be bad for liberals but also bad for liberty as governments fight to extract all they can from citizens to survive and support their huge workforces. This could be the start of the new feudalism -your government “protects” you, you effectively belong to it.

A woman is like fire -fun to play with, can warm you through and cook your food, needs constant feeding, can burn you and consume all you own

[ChristopherParticipant 2478]

This subject has been addressed in past threads – I like these forums and this is a v good topic to discuss – yet the same type material from old threads keeps getting repeated in new threads and the conversation is often repeated rather than developed further as its not linked to the original thread – this is not a criticism simply an observation.

PS this is a subject I am very familiar with (and have published on as its related to my professional/academic work) – yes flawed complex systems fail they do not self rectify. Gotta go now – breakfast time.

Feminism was funded by bankers/politicians to create more taxpayers. MGTOW IS FREEDOM https://archive.org/details/mgtowisfreedomblurayready

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

Branched off wrote:

I think it is too early to be sure of the timescale but yours is as reasonable as any.

A timescale is the wrong concept here. The collapse doesn’t operate to a timescale or a schedule because it’s many many different system failures, each happening as and when. And it’s not a matter of when collapse will happen. It’s happening right now, but just like every collapse, it isn’t happening everywhere at the same rate or all at once. It’s an ongoing process.

Yes we will climb back out of the dark ages. Dark ages are never that bad anyway.

Not this time. And dark ages aren’t defined by the relative happiness of the people in them, but by the relative level of societal and especially technological sophistication.

People tend to be freer and art and higher thought do continue,

Only for the Sea Peoples, but Sea Peoples aren’t know for building civilizations.

just not in such regimented doctrinal ways.

Lolno. During the post Roman dark age the monkish preservers of ancient knowledge were the very definition of regimented and doctrinal.

A dark age is basically an age where civilization is not too evident. That is not to say people have bad lives, they just do not live in complex societies with a lot of regulation and tax and such.

Sure the new barbarians might be happy in their cows~~~ huts singing their epic unrecorded oral tradition sagas, but they weren’t building Antikythera Mechanisms.

After we f~~~ up this time, we will never again achieve our current level of technological sophistication, which means we will never again have a chance to grow beyond this single planet, which means we are doomed to the same inevitable fate as every other species on the planet: eventual extinction.

Can we avoid it?

Wrong question.

The real question is: “Is it worth avoiding?”

Will living a subsistence level lifestyle really be worse than living under gynocentric feminism or whatever horror replaces it or it develops into? Would you rather be the matriarchy’s wage slave with a smart phone or a free man in a cows~~~ hut?

Choose wisely.

Possibly.

Inevitably. Because matriarchies are unsustainable, but are not removed willingly.

it is hard to say what the ride down will be like.

Not that hard. Take a good look at Detroit and Cape Town.

This will be bad for liberals but also bad for liberty as governments fight to extract all they can from citizens to survive and support their huge workforces. This could be the start of the new feudalism -your government “protects” you, you effectively belong to it.

Naw. Large governments require complex and large economies to support them which require complex technologies. The “huge workforces” you mention will all be doomed the moment the haber-bosch infrastructure inevitably implodes.

[iMickey503Participant 12465]

I just farted. Did the world end? Did you smell it? Nope? Then its all going to be fine. None of us are on the top. Just do what you can to change s~~~ in YOUR LIFE. THe Collapse is NOT going to affect MGTOW men. End of story.

YOU are in control of you life. If not. KILL things till it makes sense. Most men still think that voting or bulls~~~ like that is working for them. Nope. Buying your way out of things works best. The trick here is that everything really is Voluntary. You choose to follow, you made that choice. Don’t follow people.

IT WORKS.

When in doubt, TAP OUT.

You are all alone. If you have been falsely accused of RAPE, DV, PLEASE let all men know about the people who did this. http://register-her.net/web/guest/home

[AutoliteParticipant]

bstoff wrote:

Unfortunately, I think those making things happen are determined enough, and powerful enough to make it happen, eventually.

Well Westerners themselves are proactively orchestrating the destruction of their own society. It’s self hate and stupidity on a colossal scale! What can you possibly do to stop people so bent on their own demise???

[Anonymous 1]

Threads like this are the reason I love this place.

sidecar wrote:

Not that hard. Take a good look at Detroit and Cape Town.

I spent a few years in Detroit and I must say…The World of Tomorrow is looking very bleak.

Those waiting for the collapse don’t yet realize its already happened in some places, is happening now in others, and will be happening soon enough to the rest of the world.

The scavengers picked through the wreckage of Detroit and could not build s~~~ with it. They could only scrape together enough ruins to sell for a quick crack and heroin fix. Ultimately the Forest is taking back the City and Coyotes run wild through the streets. They are having a hard time maintaining basic infrastructure like Water Pipes. The building block of civilization is breaking down.

[JVBParticipant]

G.O.A.T wrote:

Good. I don’t have kids, nor do I want any.
Society can burn in the depths of hell for all I care.

I probably got about another 30 years left. Don’t see it happening in my lifetime. Never had any kids either, so Im not too concerned.

Peace is > piece.

[SwimcatParticipant 3589]

Invest in gold and silver. Not just stocks in it, but the metal itself. It will always have value. Store it in safety deposit boxes. The worse things get the more valuable precious metals become. In the last recession silver went from $9.00 to $40.00 an ounce. In 1980 silver hit $ 107.00 an ounce.

[MonkParticipant 16995]

Raj wrote:

I view western societal collapse as a restart button and maybe go back to a more traditionalist society. I don’t know what I will do if it doesn’t happen, it will only get worse and worse.

There will be no restart.

Once Europe has been reduced to a heaving, drug soaked brown mass, the rulers will begin exterminating in earnest.

[GeraldParticipant 3629]

While always an interesting exercise in it’s own right, it is time to start learning things like how to build a fire, purify water, etc.

Am already considering these things for a break from society on a trail… and I know I have a lot to learn.

No longer can we walk away, we must run. Remove the motive power.

[MoreSkyParticipant 4865]

My two pence (cents):

In about ten to twenty years the f~~~wit millenials will be in positions of power and will have gained that power based on populism rather than competence, which although it is the usual way for politicians to gain power, the millienials take incompetence to a whole new level.

If things are going to go t~~~-up in a major way I think it will happen then. There is a push-back against the socialist muppets in a lot of European countries a the moment with the “progressives” trying to fix the rules and use any excuse and shaming language to stop anyone that disagrees with them but this is beginning to weaken.

If sanity wins out then I think that there will be a “return to the mean” reset where over-inflated markets and prices will revert to something sensible.

If sanity does not prevail the feminists and socialists will run around like headless chickens blaming each other and societies will collapse into a steaming pile of turds built on false promises and incompetence, and people will be living on nuts, berries and the occasional raw cow. The forests will return to Europe and justice will have prevailed.

For a median of these two scenarios read 1984.

"...reinvent your life because you must; it is your life and its history and the present belong only to you.” It is Your Life, Charles Bukowski.

[narwhalParticipant]

sidecar wrote:

A timescale is the wrong concept here. The collapse doesn’t operate to a timescale or a schedule because it’s many many different system failures, each happening as and when. And it’s not a matter of when collapse will happen. It’s happening right now, but just like every collapse, it isn’t happening everywhere at the same rate or all at once. It’s an ongoing process.

Agree on this. And I see that as both good as bad. It means that parts of western society can see the error of their ways and prevent collapse from happening to them. But it’s bad because the slow collapse means it’s difficult to see, and accept, why the collapse happened.

But I don’t see all of western culture collapsing. It just happens that way, never really has. The Roman civilization collapsed, but it did not effect all the civilizations on the world. Life in Africa, Asia, Australia, North and South America went on as normal. The Soviet Union collapsed, and the world didn’t end. Venezuela is collapsing as we speak, but I am completely unaffected. If the US collapses, it will definitely have a huge impact on the world, but much of life will still go on.

I can’t say that a reset wouldn’t happen. It maybe a series of failed resets. It may be a taken off over non-western culture at some point. A lot depends on how other countries react to a collapse and how authorizes, in whatever form the take, are able to restore order. It may be that part of the US collapses, say the western or eastern seaboards, and the US ends up breaking into smaller countries.

I do think a form of society will go own. There is just too much knowledge and tech out there for it all to completely disappear. The general principles and morals of western culture may disappear in favor of something more religious, more male dominant, or more oppressive, but I don’t know that it’s going be the end of human life.

As far as getting off the planet, that may not even be possible, since we don’t even know how it would be done yet.

Ok. Then do it.

[Anonymous 1]

It’s interesting that hurricanes in the U.S give an insight into what will happen when the collapse occurs, however it won’t just be looting, but mass murder and rape.

Probably canabalism and ritual/sacrifical killing too.

Sounds fun.

[Anonymous 38]

Raj wrote:

All those things considered and more, will western society collapse, and if so how long do you believe it will take. I don’t want guesses, I am seeking logic driven time frames. I project it should occur before 3 more generations, or before 2070. I base this on demographics of contemporary western populations and future projections. Is there any of you that believe they may be able to prevent a collapse? And if so why? Your thoughts, please.

We are collapsing right now. There may be some disaster events that cause some key systems to collapse but it’s impossible to predict I think.

A slow and steady decline until something reinvigorates everything, be it technology or war.

Personally I think we will continue in the same vein, with the wimmin and elites forming an elite ruling group which governs the rest of the normal people, I mean blatantly as in we will be reduced to something like peasants. If you’ve seen any of The Hunger Games, something like “The Capitol”.

I will exploit whatever I can to ensure my survival, and am prepared to move to any part of the globe as well.

[Branched offParticipant 10936]

I spent ages writing Sidecar a proper reply to his good points and then a server error lost the lot when I clicked post!

I am not going to manage to rewrite it all.

Time scale is everything in a prediction. Everyone knows the stock market is going to collapse and everyone knows the US will win the world cup one day. If only one could tell when though, then he would be filthy rich. Now if you were a Romano Briton, the most useful information you could ever have had was a good prediction of the date of the Roman withdrawl from Britain. Was it in your time, your grandsons’ or later? You could make good plans for your family then.

Technology does not all go backwards in a dark age. Take Saxon ships and Saxon swords, these were better than the Roman kinds. Art had high points too -look at the stuff from the burial at Sutton Hoo -it was just smaller more portable stuff and great civil engineering projects were not around.

I agree that big government needs complex society. But the ride down may be slow. The worst job in the Roman empire at the end was tax collector -no one has anything they can spare and the government is not providing anything in return for its taxes, it is just trying to survive. If they institute financial feudalism in an attempt to keep liberal democracy and the welfare state on then it will be easy to make that real feudalism when warlords come and take areas.

Dark ages do not always end well for freedom -look at what happened in the eastern Roman empire when it collapsed. Mohammed’s hordes… The matriarchy will certainly fail but it may well not be the happy fantasy dark age I personally want where men make small groups that are dynamic, largely self sufficient and effective and where people are free and valued for their talents.

A woman is like fire -fun to play with, can warm you through and cook your food, needs constant feeding, can burn you and consume all you own

[BoarParticipant]

The irony is that after the collapse, they will still be asking the same question: “Where have all the good men gone?”

Untamed wrote: Quit complaining and Go Your Own Way in whatever manner suits you best.

[Anonymous 1]

narwhal wrote:

But I don’t see all of western culture collapsing. It just happens that way, never really has. The Roman civilization collapsed, but it did not effect all the civilizations on the world. Life in Africa, Asia, Australia, North and South America went on as normal. The Soviet Union collapsed, and the world didn’t end. Venezuela is collapsing as we speak, but I am completely unaffected. If the US collapses, it will definitely have a huge impact on the world, but much of life will still go on.

The difference between then and now is that now (thanks to globalism) the economy is very interdependent. One economy affects the others and the Global economy is interlinked.

A collapse of Western Civilization will bring the whole world down with it. Only non-globalists countries could survive.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

Swimcat wrote:

Invest in gold and silver.

LOLno.

Invest in guns and ammunition and reloading supplies and tools and land and seeds and knowledge.

It will always have value.

Gold’s only value is in it’s utility as a medium of exchange. And it only has value as a medium of exchange because it is relatively rare and also doesn’t corrode so it can be safely stockpiled. The iron you have today will be rust tomorrow, but an oz. of gold will still be an oz. of gold.

But that only matters if your society and economy can operate on any sort of long term.

After the collapse, things will be very short term.

Store it in safety deposit boxes.

In banks that will be immediately looted?

The worse things get the more valuable precious metals become. In the last recession silver went from $9.00 to $40.00 an ounce. In 1980 silver hit $ 107.00 an ounce.

Which isn’t a sign of the silver gaining worth, but of the dollar destabilizing and losing worth. But after the collapse, both the silver and the dollars will become not only worthless, but irrelevant.

narwhal wrote:

But I don’t see all of western culture collapsing.

Western culture is not self sustainable. Especially with its current parasite load. How long do you think western culture will last once the constant inflow of food, goods, and materials from third world slave labor via “globalism” are cut off?

I can’t say that a reset wouldn’t happen. It maybe a series of failed resets.

Without the easy to access fossil fuels (which are all now accessed and used up) we won’t ever make it even into the 19th century level of technology. Horsepower will only come from horses.

You can’t get to the moon on horses.

[Author]

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