Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Skip The Spouse. Buy A House
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sidecar 1 year, 8 months ago.
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He was trying to point out how the economic tables are turning. Women in their 20s earn more than men their age, women attend college and graduate more than men do, and women are now buying homes at over twice the rate men do.
All of that isn’t because of what women themselves have done, it’s still happening. The government has been playing favorites for decades now and men aren’t the favorites.
I get that part…I just don’t think owning a house is necessarily a relevant measure of success because most the single dudes I know have no interest at all in buying a house, and I know lots of single dudes making six figures from work, so its not like they couldn’t afford it. I think men tend to see it more as work and a money pit, where as women tend to see it more as something to show off to the hive.
Its the same with college really…women getting more degrees means nothing if most of them are just walking away with low paying degrees and a mountain of debt. I can’t even tell you how many women I know who have gone into debt to get degrees in fields like social work or early childhood education who make less than the average waitress at a chain restaurant around here.
I’m not disputing the facts, I’m just trying to put them into context. At the end of the day the average millennial male is still making more than the average millennial female, and the average millennial female has more debt than the average millennial male. Even with an obvious government bias…they still aren’t winning, because the government has yet to find a way to force people to actually make good choices.
Anonymous1My 1200 sq. ft. house is too big for my living space but my 900 sq. ft. garage is not big enough. for me I am staying put for my job situation for the next 15-20 years. house will be paid of in 13. I will move somewhere with cheap property taxes after this. I wont pay a mortgage again.I plan on having a car/truck paid off the day I retire. So no debt into retirement.
As for the maintenance on a house. Yes it is a money sink no matter what. Are you there short or long term? I do everything but concrete or roofing work. The back breaking labor.
Condo life would be great. But those HOA fees are like renting an apartment, and purchasing it is like buying a house. So it really can be twice as expensive.
Bill is right, it depends on the situation. I’d say if you aren’t moving for a while, a modest house could end up being less expensive than renting in the long run (5-10 yrs or more). But a time vacuum for sure.
On the other hand, I know of someone who believes that putting into stock index funds what would otherwise be a downpayment for a house, more than makes up for the cumulative costs of paying rent, plus frees up one’s lifestyle.
House work has given me meaning, as a way to claim my life and my space more than an apartment would allow or require.
"Once you’ve taken care of the basics, there’s very little in this world for which your life is worth deferring." -David Hansson. "It’s not when women are mean or nasty that anything is out of the ordinary. It’s when they are NICE to you that you have to be on high alert..." -Jackinov.
I just don’t think owning a house is necessarily a relevant measure of success…
Owning a house both is and isn’t a measure of success. It depends on the individual because success can only truly be measured individually.
I think men tend to see it more as work and a money pit, where as women tend to see it more as something to show off to the hive.
While I agree with those generalizations, I also remember that they’re generalizations.
Its the same with college really…women getting more degrees means nothing if most of them are just walking away with low paying degrees and a mountain of debt.
And they’re adding to that debt with mortgages.
I’m not disputing the facts, I’m just trying to put them into context.
I’m not disputing them either, except for one you mention later, and I’m trying to put it context too. Women are buying more houses because the government has picked them to be winners.
At the end of the day the average millennial male is still making more than the average millennial female…
No. The same studies that show the wage gap is a statistical lie also show that millennial women earn more than their male counterparts by something around 18% IIRC. It’s what they’re doing with that money that is important.
… and the average millennial female has more debt than the average millennial male.
That is true. They’re earning more but also spending more and servicing more debt.
Even with an obvious government bias…they still aren’t winning.
They’re winning when measured by the government’s yardstick and they’re winning because the government is choosing them to win.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
My 1200 sq. ft. house is too big for my living space but my 900 sq. ft. garage is not big enough. for me I am staying put for my job situation for the next 15-20 years. house will be paid of in 13. I will move somewhere with cheap property taxes after this. I wont pay a mortgage again.I plan on having a car/truck paid off the day I retire. So no debt into retirement.
That’s working for you, brother, and that’s great. You’ve made choices based on your situation, your needs, and your desires. Other men will be in different situations, will have different needs, and will have different desires.
Different men, different paths.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
No. The same studies that show the wage gap is a statistical lie also show that millennial women earn more than their male counterparts by something around 18% IIRC.
Wage gap is a statistical lie if you aren’t comparing people working the same job, most definitely, but the average millennial male still out earns the average millennial female, although by a smaller margin than the average male would have out earned the average female in the 35 and under age bracket 30 years ago.
I googled a few articles, and browsed the wiki, and they all pretty much claimed the same thing, that millennial males out earn millennial females as a whole, although there are a few specific areas, mainly some cities, where women out earn men. I could post a bunch of links if you want, but really, I’m more interested in what you read claiming millennial women are out earning millennial men by 18%. I didn’t look too incredibly hard but everything I did read on the subject agreed millennial men still made more.
They’re winning when measured by the government’s yardstick and they’re winning because the government is choosing them to win.
The point is the government yardstick is retarded. The yard stick might be degrees and houses, which sounds good on the surface, but when the reality is they earn less and have more debt, the yard stick might as well be who can eat more tide pods. If they call that winning, I’m quite content being a loser.
Definitely skip the spouse.
"Once you’ve taken care of the basics, there’s very little in this world for which your life is worth deferring." -David Hansson. "It’s not when women are mean or nasty that anything is out of the ordinary. It’s when they are NICE to you that you have to be on high alert..." -Jackinov.
Wage gap is a statistical lie…
I wrote that.
… but the average millennial male still out earns the average millennial female…
No he doesn’t.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds
That’s a UK study looking at data between 2006 and 2013. I’ve seen other studies using US data which produced the same results. I don’t know what search terms you were using, but I found that article as the 4th link on the first page of my first search.
Between 2006 and 2013, women between 22 and 29 earned more than men of the same age.
I could post a bunch of links if you want…
Don’t bother. I already posted a link you couldn’t find.
The point is the government yardstick is retarded.
I didn’t say it wasn’t retarded.
The government has been playing favorites for decades now to the benefit of women and the detriment of men. That favorites game is starting to show results. That is the point Sky-O was trying to make. It’s also the point I’m agreeing with.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
I get that part…I just don’t think owning a house is necessarily a relevant measure of success
I do.
But you have to actually own the house. Living in a house the bank owns doesn’t count.
Which brings us to the meat of this matter. It’s to be expected that more single women buy houses than single men. More single women also carry tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt from buying shoes than single men. Women have always been more willing to irresponsibly dive into crushing debt than men. They “know” that some white knight “starter husband” will step in and marry them and save them from their choices, so why should they worry about silly little things like compound interest and balloon payments?
Except Men Are Going Their Own Way. Remember all the articles a while back about how “the mortgage crisis mainly hurts women”? Well now women are once again feeding the next mortgage crisis. That’s all they’re doing. And even fewer men are going to bail them out next time around.
But that is not our problem.
I wrote that.
Way to quote half a sentence like a champ intentionally taking what I said out of context.
No he doesn’t.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds
That’s a UK study looking at data between 2006 and 2013. I’ve seen other studies using US data which produced the same results. I don’t know what search terms you were using, but I found that article as the 4th link on the first page of my first search.
Between 2006 and 2013, women between 22 and 29 earned more than men of the same age.
Did you even read this? Older millennials are 35 now and the very article you posted claims…
“Figures compiled by the Press Association have shown that between the ages of 22 and 29, a woman will typically earn £1,111 more per annum than her male counterparts.”
“A man turning 30 in 2006 would have brought in on average £8,775 more than a woman of the same age.”
Even given that data the average 30 year old male more than makes up for the lower earnings from 22-29 lol. Average wages for 22-30, males win…go up to how old millennials actually are, the gap just grows in males favor.
Don’t bother. I already posted a link you couldn’t find.
Oh…but I will…mainly because I’m not in the UK and don’t really care about 1 tiny subset of data when the big picture even in the article you posted as proof says otherwise lol…
(more about same study – https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2014/beyond-bls/millennials-and-the-pay-gap.htm)
Strangely enough another guardian link claiming 2014 article so I’m guessing data was gathered 2013/2014…“The Pew study, based on a survey of 2,002 individuals and drawing on data from the Current Population Survey, found that in 2012, hourly earnings for younger women – those aged 25 to 34, least likely to have found their careers interrupted by marriage, motherhood and part-time work – were 93% of what men earned”
Here’s another one…
http://www.businessinsider.com/gender-pay-gap-millennial-workers-2018-1
“Millennial women employed by small businesses are making 89% of what men are, information that is consistent with the economy of large. Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics show that although a gender pay gap is smaller for millennials, it still exists.”
More data from wiki…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap_in_the_United_States
“Among younger workers, the earning differences between women and men were smaller, with women aged 16 to 24 earning 88.3% of men’s earnings in the same age group ($423 and $479, respectively).”
“According to Andrew Beveridge, a Professor of Sociology at Queens College, between 2000 and 2005, young women in their twenties earned more than their male counterparts in some large urban centers, including Dallas (120%), New York (117%), Chicago, Boston, and Minneapolis. A major reason for this is that women have been graduating from college in larger numbers than men, and that many of those women seem to be gravitating toward major urban areas. In 2005, 53% of women in their 20s working in New York were college graduates, compared with only 38% of men of that age. Nationwide, the wages of that group of women averaged 89% of the average full-time pay for men between 2000 and 2005.“
In other words there is a ton of data saying millennial men on average(even the article you posted if you actually read it and interpret the data correctly) are out earning millennial women…I’m going to believe that over one article from the UK that would have to ignore 1/3 of the generation to maybe hold a little water.
Just another tidbit…google the average age of a first time home buyer…you’ll find numbers in the early 30s…so even if you want to hold one tiny bit of research as gospel over the mountain of research that proves otherwise, those 22-29 year olds wouldn’t be the ones skewing the house numbers.
I didn’t say it wasn’t retarded.
The government has been playing favorites for decades now to the benefit of women and the detriment of men. That favorites game is starting to show results. That is the point Sky-O was trying to make. It’s also the point I’m agreeing with.
So why refer to them as winning when clearly they aren’t? The government’s playing a cruel joke on them crushing them with student debt and the big banks are laughing their asses off when they mortgage up to their eyeb~~~~ and the women are too stupid to see it.
Condo
I’ve been quite happy with the condo life…its pretty much the ease of the apartment lifestyle, only cheaper and I’ve built equity in it…best of both worlds. The c~~~s can have the houses, I’ll make sure to drive by and wave when they’re out mowing the lawn, raking leaves, shoveling snow, or other bulls~~~ jobs men traditionally got stuck with lol.
I own a condo and it’s my little slice of heaven. Don’t have to mow the lawn, shovel the snow, rake the leaves or maintain an entire building. My mortgage is extremely affordable and I’m building equity. Wouldn’t have it any other way.
I have considered buying a condo and you certainly make strong cases for it. I’ve seen condos in a nearby city appreciate over 20% over the last year or two. OTOH, Tom Leykis is very much anti-condo and strongly discourages it. He says you might as well be renting an apartment since you do not own the land, have to pay HOA fees, etc.
I own a house with somewhat of a long commute (50 min each way). Thought about buying a condo closer to work to not only save time commuting but also doing yardwork and cutting grass.
Condo
Land.
They never buy a drink, never buy dinner just whores… The guys now buying houses are paying for them..
All it means they start higher on the hypergamy ladder, many times I heard a guy say “she has her own house not after my money ” but oddly the guy is always worth more ..
Just another selling aid to clime the hypergamy tree..
I do.
But you have to actually own the house. Living in a house the bank owns doesn’t count.
In that case you’d be saying net worth is a measure of success, and that’s what I’m trying to say.
A degree is a bad move if your making s~~~ money in your field and obtained a mountain of debt to get said degree, and a house is a giant money pit for a single person to live alone in if you could have just bought/rented something much smaller and cheaper and still had plenty of space for yourself.
I just see women proving repeatedly they’ll make bad decisions over and over even when they government gives them an extra push towards being successful.
Which brings us to the meat of this matter. It’s to be expected that more single women buy houses than single men. More single women also carry tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt from buying shoes than single men. Women have always been more willing to irresponsibly dive into crushing debt than men. They “know” that some white knight “starter husband” will step in and marry them and save them from their choices, so why should they worry about silly little things like compound interest and balloon payments?
Except Men Are Going Their Own Way. Remember all the articles a while back about how “the mortgage crisis mainly hurts women”? Well now women are once again feeding the next mortgage crisis. That’s all they’re doing. And even fewer men are going to bail them out next time around.
But that is not our problem.
They can try to sugar coat it that women getting more degrees(debt) and buying more houses(debt) is a sign women are winning…but as time goes on we’ll just see more articles like…
http://time.com/money/4438063/millennial-women-not-saving-retirement/
Boy is it going to suck for the women who can’t fund their retirement with a divorce…but like you say, not our problem lol.
I’ll be happy to buy a house… In deuterium Detroit where they are going for 10,000 bucks. Maybe WAY the the f~~~ out in BF Egypt, or maybe out of the country as I will need a place for my things one day.
But really, I always wanted a home that I could make my own.
Really, its a nice nest egg if you play your cards right, and it can help when you need money to borrow etc.
But really, its the peace of mind that it’s yours after you own it.
If you have kids, then it becomes an issue of who gets your assets after you die, or get to sick to live in your home.
Personally, the more women buy homes, the more they create jobs for men. So Win Win.
But in the end, who cares. Id be just as happy buying a large structure to keep all my tools and cars in as I would be with a home, and a small living space. Maybe even a very nice trailer.
In the end, its just me wanting to be free. if a home is in that equation, then wonderful.
Course, I’m more like Frank Lloyd Wright. I like designing nice homes and spaces.
You are all alone. If you have been falsely accused of RAPE, DV, PLEASE let all men know about the people who did this. http://register-her.net/web/guest/home
In that case you’d be saying net worth is a measure of success, and that’s what I’m trying to say.
Not so much net worth as minimized expenses relative to benefit gained. I can’t think of a specific term for that.
Obviously it depends on your circumstances, but the general rule of thumb is that when you rent, you are paying your landlord’s mortgage principle, mortgage interest, and taxes. When you buy you are paying your own mortgage interest and taxes. When you own free and clear you are only paying your own taxes. Each step should be less than the one above it.
A man who owns his single bedroom cabin outright is more to be admired than a man renting a hundred room mansion.
but as time goes on we’ll just see more articles like…
And more articles demanding men “man up” and save them. Or that the taxpayer (men again) should bail them out.
Actually, we’re already seeing those.
I’ll be happy to buy a house… In deuterium Detroit where they are going for 10,000 bucks.
No you wouldn’t.
Trust me on that.
There’s a reason they’re going that “cheap” back there. And it isn’t because they’re a good investment.
I have a piece. But with all the s~~~ laws and codes in California its impossible to put a structure on it.
Condo
Land.
I have considered buying a condo and you certainly make strong cases for it. I’ve seen condos in a nearby city appreciate over 20% over the last year or two. OTOH, Tom Leykis is very much anti-condo and strongly discourages it. He says you might as well be renting an apartment since you do not own the land, have to pay HOA fees, etc.
I own a house with somewhat of a long commute (50 min each way). Thought about buying a condo closer to work to not only save time commuting but also doing yardwork and cutting grass.
Its like anything…you just gotta watch what your buying.
My HOA fees are 210 a month. It includes heat, water, trash pickup, common area maintenance(indoor pool, tennis court, big field on a river w/charcoal grills and picnic tables), general upkeep like landscaping and snow plowing, and an insurance policy on the building so we all don’t have to take our own policies out.
Thing is my association calculates the fees by figuring out the budget for the year, then the % you owe is based on the % of the building you own…as in square footage of your unit / square footage of all units. So what happens is most the units are about 700-800 square feet and pay in the ballpark of 200-220 a month, but there are some huge ass 2200 square foot three bedroom units that end up paying like 600 a month. Would I buy one of the bigger units here? No…they have to pay 3x the fees and don’t really get anything out of it I don’t get. Do I think 210 a month for what I get out of it is a good deal though? Yup.
Likewise my grandfather used to own a condo down in Florida. It had a big dock on the ocean. He didn’t have a boat. He was paying like 450 a month and would p~~~ and moan endlessly about having to pay to maintain a dock he never used. Would I have bought that? Nope. There’s a more upscale condo complex across town a friend of mine looked at…condo fees there were in the 600-800 dollar range, but they have a door man 24/7 that would carry your groceries and s~~~ in, and play valet with your car…would I want to pay extra for crap like that? Nope.
I’m sitting on a 410 dollar mortgage(taxes included) right now and 210 dollar condo fees. That’s far cheaper than any house your gonna find, and the guy next door is paying 900 dollars a month in rent for a near identical unit and not building any equity, so I wouldn’t write off all condos as a bad deal. Best thing you could do though if you are considering buying a condo, is simply go there one day, hang out in the parking lot or lobby or whatever for a bit, and just ask a few of the residents about whatever concerns you have with the place, and try to set up a meeting or phone call with the association manager if your interested in the financials behind the fees, and potential upcoming projects that might cost $$$. You’ll gain a lot more insight that way than you will just showing up with a realtor who’s going to open up a door and let you look at the inside of a unit that probably already has a dozen pictures posted on zillow.
I have a piece. But with all the s~~~ laws and codes in California its impossible to put a structure on it.
Yaw, there’s a reason why people are getting the f~~~ outta California while they can.
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