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Subcomandante Santiago 2 years, 5 months ago.
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One of the most pervasive concepts(myths) of MGTOW and other men’s right’s movements, as well as PUA literature is the concept of the “alpha male”. According to PUA literature, the “alpha gets the pussy, the beta has to go home and play with himself”. I’ve seen MGTOW people complaining that the “alpha’s” get all the chicks, while “beta’s” are left out of the process. God, how I wish it were true! I excel at everything I do, a lot of people say I’m the best in my field, yet here in LA, I’m constantly getting dumped in favor of losers, bums, and hoodlums. Another concept I’ve read in PUA literature is the concept of DHV, “demonstration of higher value”. This is another concept I would have to question the validity of.
I first got out here to LA in the late ’90’s and started a career as a street performer on Venice Beach. I met a chick on the beach one day who seemed to be attracted to me. We began talking about literature and I mentionWeed one of the books I had written.(I’ve written 4 books for Simon and Schuster). She gasped in amazement when I told her my name and the names of the books I had written. Her jaw was practically hanging down to the sidewalk in amazement. Apparently, she had some of my books and was a fan. We had dinner together and I felt like I had met someone, which was nice–I was lonely. I saw her the next day and she shrugged me off–she never got together with me again. A few weeks later I saw on the 3rd Street Promenade talking to a girlfriend.
“What happened to your boyfriend?” the girlfriend asked.
“He’s in jail,” she replied.
“For what,” the girlfriend asked.
“Heroin, it was stupid!”, she replied.
Of course nothing SCREAMS alpha male like being a heroin addict in jail, and for that matter, what could be more “beta” than being a famous writer and writing for Simon and Schuster? And I can only assume that being a heroin addict is a demonstration of higher value, while being a famous writer is not.
I remember meeting another chick on Venice Beach who performed as a clown out there, who called herself “Rainbow”. She seemed to be attracted to me and we had some drinks together. Before I left the bar she put her arms around me and whispered in my ear, “You’ve got the best act on Venice Beach!”, in a breathy, sexy voice. About a week later I called her and asked her to meet me on the beach. When I got there, I realized she had stood me up. I called her number, but no answer. Another time I called her and she hung up on me when I identified myself. A few years later, I saw her on the beach and she was dating some homeless drug dealer. I’m sorry that having “the best act on Venice Beach” is a quality of an “alpha” male and the really cool people are homeless drug dealer.
I met another chick at a poetry reading at a coffee shop and she said she thought I was a “genius”. I got her phone number and we made a date, but she stood me up. When I went back out to the boardwalk I noticed that all the guys with cardboard signs that said things like “Why Lie, I Need a Beer”, all had girlfriends. I wish being a “genius”, doesn’t qualify me as an “alpha” male, if I was one of the alcoholics with a cardboard sign, I guess I would have a girlfriend.
This type of behavior continued all the years I worked as a street performer in California. I kept getting better and better at what I was doing and making more and more money, and yet kept getting dumped in favor of homeless guys who didn’t have a dime to their names. After working as a street performer for 10 years, I developed an act called, “The Bank Robbery”. People started saying I had the best act in the country. “You’re the best”, “You’re a genius!”, and “Greatest Act Ever” were some of the comments I heard on a regular basis. The “G” word (genius) is a compliment I’ve gotten so often I’ve gotten used to it. In every city I performed in the newspapers did a story about me, in Santa Cruz 2 local TV stations did pieces on me, and the San Francisco Chronicle had an interview and a full color picture of me doing my act. (A lot of other artists were jealous.) On just about every strip I worked I was the superstar, the highest earner on the strip. Yet, I still ran into the same strange behavior, the women I met stood me up, and the guys who had girlfriends were homeless guys, addicts, and alcoholics. Does anyone understand why this is? I saw a men’s right’s video recently that said that women objectify men as “providers” and are attracted to men who are high earners. What a joke that is!! If That’s true, why am I the one who’s always single and the guys who don’t have 2 cents to their name have beautiful girlfriends?
Finally, more and more people were saying that I had the best act in the country and that I should “go Hollywood”, so I auditioned for and was accepted by “America’s Got Talent”, the #1 show in the country on NBC. I was blown away to appear on “America’s Got Talent”, the #1 show in the country, but again, no date! I had met a chick on Facebook named Amanda and asked her to go with me, but she never showed up. After we taped “America’s Got Talent”, I went back to Venice Beach and there was a guy with a cardboard sign that said, “Kick me in the Nuts for a Dollar”. I asked him about it and he said, “I have to do something, my wife is going to have a baby!” Of course, nothing SCREAMS alpha like having a cardboard sign that says “Kick me in the nuts for a dollar”, and what could be more “beta” than appearing on NBC’s “America’s Got Talent” and hanging out with people like Nick Cannon and Howie Mandell?
The same was true when they aired my segment of “America’s Got Talent” on NBC a few months later. I tried to get a chick named Indigo to come over and watch it with me, but she refused. I met another chick on the beach named “Jaqueline” and she saw me doing the “Bank Robbery” and said she thought I was “going to be huge!”, but she was not interested in coming over and watching America’s Got Talent with me. Around this time I was hanging out with a guy named “Animal”, his real name was Andy, but people called him Animal. He was homeless and I agreed to let him and his girlfriend stay at my place for a few nights. Animal was an all right guy, but sometimes I was embarrassed to hang out with him. He was a cigarette bum. Anyone who was smoking a cigarette, he’d go up to them and he was like, “Can you kick me down a cigarette?” He also bummed food from people, beers, weed, anything and everything. I wondered why someone like that, who slept in a doorway and was basically a bum, would have a beautiful, young girlfriend, while I had just been on America’s Got Talent and had been unable to find a date. Is everyone out here in California crazy or what?
A few months later I appeared on another TV show, “Freakshow” on AMC. I had pitched the producer and he waited several months and then finally said “yes”, he wanted to have me on. I was walking on air, to be selected for another national TV show. I had met a chick at a party named Sasha. I emailed her and told her I was excited that I was going to be on national television again and wanted to know if she wanted to have dinner with me to celebrate. I saw her later and she said, “I never got back you on the email, I’ll get back to you next week.” But she never did. I asked Amanda (the chick I met on Facebook) if she would come over and watch it with me when it was broadcast. She never showed up, but called at 4:00 am and told me she hoped it went well. (Like I said, everyone out here is crazy!) I was seeing a chick named “Sublime” and I asked her to come over and watch it with me. She watched at her place, but refused to come over and watch it with me. So, I watched it BY MYSELF, just like I watched myself on AMERICA’S GOT TALENT BY MYSELF!!
I started performing in comedy clubs in LA in 2010. I found the same strange behavior there also. I started doing my street act, “The Bank Robbery” at open mics and in comedy clubs. The first night I did “Bank Robbery” in a comedy club, the next comedian stopped the show. “I have to say something about that last act”, he began, “THAT WAS FANTASTIC!” The other comedians began stopping the show EVERY NIGHT to comment on my act. “I,…uh,….don’t know how to follow that last guy was a comment I was getting a lot. However, whenever I met a chick, the same thing kept occurring, they either stood me up or didn’t return my emails. I also continued seeing chicks dating alcoholics and losers. One night I was performing in a comedy club called “Sal’s Comedy Hole” and the comedian was walking through the audience talking to people and asking them questions. “My girlfriend and I are living in my car!” answered one guy. I looked and saw that he was sitting next to a beautiful blond in her early ’20’s.
Another erroneous concept I’ve seen several times on the internet is the concept of “sexual marketplace value”. Supposedly, your sexual market place value is connected to your status. Am I to assume that a cigarette bum is high status, while being on America’s Got Talent is not. Yet this concept, like the TOTALLY ERRONEOUS concept of the “alpha male” is never challenged on the internet. Except for the article I’m presently writing I’ve never seen these concepts challenged. I should add that I’ve never experienced this phenomenon anywhere else but kooky California. I was in New Orleans a few years ago and chicks were lining up to date me when they saw me doing the “Bank Robbery”.
Does anyone have an explanation for this strange behavior? Does anyone else have the experience of constantly excelling at everything you do and getting dumped in favor of losers and hoodlums? Can anyone help me understand what I call, “The Myth of the Alpha Male”?i
Anonymous3You’re looking at things from the male perspective. What you consider alpha qualities mean absolutely nothing to women.
This is the female experience: You are a writer. You are harmless. You are tame. You are a bookworm. You are no threat. You are not dangerous. You are not attractive. When I’m older, hit the wall, and in need of a beta provider, maybe you’ll do.
Bad boy heroin addict prison guy = taking risks, following one’s own rules, probably a tough f~~~er = behaviours of an alpha male = protection = gina tingles.
Symbols symbols symbols.
A genius, published writer, who is top of the class at everything = a tameable (potential) fat wallet = beta provider.
Symbols symbols symbols.
Women operate on the subconscious symbolic value assigned to behaviours and traits. That’s why violent drug dealers get the prettiest, most feminine women.
Here’s the opening verse to Songs of Love by Divine Comedy. It sums it up.
Pale, pubescent beasts roam through the streets
And coffee-shops
Their prey gather in herds in stiff knee-length skirts and white ankle-socks
But while they search for a mate my type hibernate
In bedrooms above
Composing their songs of loveOne of the most pervasive concepts(myths) of MGTOW
Wrong. Going Your Own Way is largely a rejection of the whole alpha / beta false dynamic.
There are no myths in MGTOW: just the straight up pure unadulterated no bulls~~~ goddamn truth.
I’ve seen MGTOW people complaining that the “alpha’s” get all the chicks, while “beta’s” are left out of the process.
They don’t sound like MGTOW to me.
Women are better at multitasking? Fucking up several things at once is not multitasking.
LOL…MGTOW is above the alpha or beta to the zeta or whatever…Those classifications are for plantations.It is a classification for the benefit of the c~~~..You havent seen the truth…Only those who have taken the red pill can understand the way of MGTOW…Even during my blue pill days, if someone explains to me what MGTOW is I would say they are crazy…But, after taking the red pill…Boy, I was wrong..I was thinking like a slave in the plantation…Now read more and take your daily dose of red pill if you want to be free…If not, enjoy the plantation…
Oh, MGTOW does not care if alphas or anybody gets the pussy…we just dont f~~~ing care for the pussy running our lives…Because I am the captain of my ship, the master of my fate…I am A MAN….I stand with feet apart and let my balls hang free...Manginas dont have balls...See how they stand and sit at the whim of their masters...
For a girl who takes drugs, a drug dealer makes a great boyfriend. .
I figured I’d get the “bad boy” explanation. When I think of a “bad boy”, I think of someone like, say, James Dean in “Rebel Without a Cause”. Leather jacket, sleeveless t-shirt, filterless cigarette hanging out of his mouth–this guy would just as soon beat the s~~~ out of you as look at you. Most of these guys don’t fit that description at all–most of these guys are pathetic losers! Yeah, some of these guys fit the description of a “bad boy”, but most of them don’t. I remember I was working as a street performer in San Francisco one afternoon and this chick was so turned-on by my act that she ran across the sidewalk and embraced me. I still have a photograph of her grabbing me. I emailed her but she never got back to me. A few weeks later I saw her on the street hanging out with some homeless guy that had a cardboard sign that said, “Spare Change–Anything Helps!” She stopped and talked to me for a minute and then left with the “cool” guy. I saw him a few weeks later. He was by himself, I don’t know where the chick was. He was in his early ’40’s, bald, no money, no job. He stopped and asked me for a quarter–he didn’t have a penny to his name. No job, no place to live, he wasn’t “cool” or a “bad boy” in any way–he was a PATHETIC LOSER!! He was not a “protector” or a “provider” in any way. Most of these guys fit that description. I said “no” to his pitiful request for a quarter and went back to doing what I do: ripping the house down, pocketing five-dollar bills, twenty dollar bills, people saying I was the best in the country, etc., etc. I wish I was one of the “cool” people!!
I didn’t mean to criticize MGTOW–I’ve gotten a lot out of it. I was just questioning the “alpha male” concept that I’ve seen in PUA literature–I’ve also seen it in MGTOW literature and other men’s rights websites.
Thank you, Tungus Kahn and black_knight for saying what needed to be said.
Indeed, most men who rail against the notion of the “alpha” do not truly understand what it means. To a woman, an alpha male is a man whose power frightens/arouses her. Even a short, fat, ugly man can be powerful in this way.
The word “scaroused” is the closest I can find to it, though I’m sure there’s a really great german word for it.
For a lot of people, an alpha male is one who can get laid no problem which is why the term Chad works better.
Alphas are leader types you can respect.
Chads are drama-magnet vagina-tinglers who are too often the sorts of guys no one in their right mind should respect.
Marriage: About as appealing as wood-chipper diving.
The “women” are selfish. It’s ONLY about them.
You paying for dinner? I’m there!
You have drugs (for me) and a ‘f~~~ off work’ attitude? Mmmmm so sexy!They like this drama.
The tough guy, streetwise, thuggish bulls~~~, because it’s like living a law of the jungle type s~~~. It’s why they keep going back to the low life jerks.
Booze, drugs, drama and ‘gina tingles.Maybe we will have a big argument and I get to make a scene in public! Maybe I can keep this bad boy locked down, plus he always gets me high for free! An’ fuk ‘da police!!
Not worth your time or energy. Be like a God laughing at the scurrying ants below.
If women ran the world = It would become the shithole you are seeing.
Anonymous3Even a short, fat, ugly man can be powerful in this way.
Charles Manson comes to mind.
This is an outstanding video on “alpha males”.
If anything, “alpha / beta” are used in the MGTOW sphere purely to simplify and encapsulate certain behaviors, because even the most stereotypical (and self-proclaimed ) “alpha” will demonstrate “beta” characteristics more than he would care to admit.
These terms are otherwise used by wannabe “alpha” peac~~~s who’s own ideas of “alpha/beta” are determined by what the FEMALE would say he is. As in…. “he’s so alpha” for spinning so many plates. Or he’s so “beta” because he doesn’t try to pick up chicks.
One of those PUA “gurus” (Mystery – or MR.E ) became a depressed sad little f~~~.
Essentially it boils down to the difference female PERCEIVED male value – vs. actual REAL male value.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.
Anonymous6This is an outstanding video on “alpha males”.
If anything, “alpha / beta” are used in the MGTOW sphere purely to simplify and encapsulate certain behaviors, because even the most stereotypical (and self-proclaimed ) “alpha” will demonstrate “beta” characteristics more than he would care to admit.
These terms are otherwise used by wannabe “alpha” peac~~~s who’s own ideas of “alpha/beta” are determined by what the FEMALE would say he is. As in…. “he’s so alpha” for spinning so many plates. Or he’s so “beta” because he doesn’t try to pick up chicks.
One of those PUA “gurus” (Mystery – or MR.E ) became a depressed sad little f~~~.
Essentially it boils down to the difference female PERCEIVED male value – vs. actual REAL male value.
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Hey KM, please look through some of the other threads there are some punts that have been requested, two specifically with a third possibly.
In common terms, alpha means you are brave and stupid. And beta means you are intelligent and coward. You do not want to be either of them but have the best of both.
People who are replying to my post are using terms like “bad boy” and “dominant”–some of these guys I’m talking about match that description–most of them don’t! Most of the guys I’m talking about are pathetic losers. I’m talking about a middle-aged, bald alcoholic holding a cardboard sign that says “Kick me in the nuts for a Dollar”. No cool bad boy stuff: no brass knuckles, no leather jacket, no tattoos or switch blades. Just pure out and out losers, but these are the guys who have girlfriends. Guys who have no jobs, can’t feed themselves, have to go to free food lines every day–for every meal! Someone said something about “streetwise” and “law of the jungle”, if anyone is “streetwise” it’s me! I make 20-30 bucks an hour on the street, these guys don’t have 2 dimes to rub together! I think chicks in California are crazy.
Hey KM, please look through some of the other threads there are some punts that have been requested, two specifically with a third possibly.
Would be helpful if you send a link pointing to it by way of the contact form to be sure it’s seen and attended to AQAP. Thank you.
(no intent to derail the thread here)
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.People who are replying to my post are using terms like “bad boy” and “dominant”–some of these guys I’m talking about match that description–most of them don’t! Most of the guys I’m talking about are pathetic losers. I’m talking about a middle-aged, bald alcoholic holding a cardboard sign that says “Kick me in the nuts for a Dollar”. No cool bad boy stuff: no brass knuckles, no leather jacket, no tattoos or switch blades. Just pure out and out losers, but these are the guys who have girlfriends. Guys who have no jobs, can’t feed themselves, have to go to free food lines every day–for every meal! Someone said something about “streetwise” and “law of the jungle”, if anyone is “streetwise” it’s me! I make 20-30 bucks an hour on the street, these guys don’t have 2 dimes to rub together! I think chicks in California are crazy.
I think you nailed it man. No point in trying to figure out why. I know a c~~~ who is with a guy with no job, no bank account, bunch of delinquent kids who shoplift, lives half the year in jail.
If women ran the world = It would become the shithole you are seeing.
@Manspread Mansplainer EXACTLY! And yet if you’re on NBC’s “America’s Got Talent” no one goes with you and you’re a “beta”. If you’re a superstar, the number one performer on the strip, making 20-30 dollars an hour, you’re a “beta”. But some falling down drunk, who’s too drunk to stand up, with a cardboard sign that says “Kick Me in the Nuts for a Dollar” is somehow an “alpha”, he’s “dominant”, a “leader”. NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY F~~~ING SENSE!! That’s what I was trying to point out in my original post. I talked to a psychologist about this once and he said something that sorta’ made sense. He said that California is a fantasy. People here aren’t really living in the real world, they’re living in some kind of fantasy. I come from the south where people are more realistic and not as shallow as Californians, which is why some of this stuff is confusing to me.
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