MGTOW – a reaction to consumerism?

[WarratahParticipant 895]

I read so many comments where we refer to how Western women of the 50s and 60s seemed to have greater integrity, a willingness to work alongside their husbands and support their families and a desire to maintain that family as a unit.
Abilities which are lacking in the women of today.
I maintain that those now-forgotten qualities where due to Western society living at the apex of the capitalist system.
Capitalism teaches us to secure our assets in order to increase them. Capitalism told us to save our money in order to start a business or invest in an enterprise or even just gain interest.
Capitalism taught us to look after our employees (they too are assets), to encourage them to stay with the company and bring value with their experience.
Capitalism taught us to look for quality in our purchases, for value in our shopping. Goods were well designed and well made (within the limits of available technology of course) and expected to be durable and long lasting.
How things have changed.
The 70s saw a huge change in our societies and over the last four decades we are now fully entrenched in post-capitalist consumerism.
Consumerism tells us not to worry about tomorrow. Consumerism tells us that our assets have no intrinsic value, there is no incentive to save money and no incentive to invest in small startups. Huge global corporations provide us with all we need and because the labour market is so huge, the same corporations see no need to retain employees over the long term.
Those same corporations provide us with goods that are designed to be replaced as soon as possible.
Purchase, consume, discard, re-purchase.
Welcome to Consumerism.
Who has fallen under the spell of consumerism? The same people who account for 80% of spending whilst constituting 50% of the population. Our women.
And that ideal of consumerism has entered into every aspect of their personalities, not just in shopping.
We see the pattern being replicated time and again. Purchase (obtain), consume, discard, re-purchase (obtain).
Socially we see friend/un-friend, with relationships we see monkey-branching, with marriages we see divorce and remarriage. Even with children, the possibility exists to discard at will through either abortion, state-care or leaving them with dad.
Of course it’s not just women who are affected, there are huge numbers of men who have been taught the same outlook, men who share the same consumerist habits.
I don’t see them here, though.
I think MGTOW is in the vanguard of a consumerist backlash.
The idea of obtain/discard seems abhorrent to us.
So hold on to those old, repairable cars and motorcycles, continue investing in bricks and mortar, continue adding to your skill and experience levels.
Consumerism can’t last indefinitely. There’s just not enough s~~~ to go around.
Consumerism supposes that everything is replaceable.
MGTOW realise that we are living in a finite world.

...And in our own despair, against our will, Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Agamemnon; by Aeschylus

[RoyDalParticipant]

@WarHar,
Good analysis.

Warratah wrote:

Capitalism taught us to look after our employees (they too are assets), to encourage them to stay with the company and bring value with their experience.

Socialism sees employees as property of the state, and the same goes for the way feminists regard men.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[WarratahParticipant 895]

Unfortunately, Roydal, we have moved waaaay beyond the old concepts of capitalism/socialism/communism.
Even here in Europe, where socialism was used to offer healthcare, housing and other social benefits, we are seeing a very fast destruction of those concepts.
Housing, health, transport, social care are increasingly being ‘outsourced’ to the corporations.
(Edit) Just yesterday news broke that a (private) company tasked with the placement and care of foster children in Ireland, saw profits of €700 000 whilst overseeing the fostering of just 50 children …

...And in our own despair, against our will, Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Agamemnon; by Aeschylus

[Duke TogoParticipant 2664]

Good post.

Warratah wrote:

Consumerism can’t last indefinitely. There’s just not enough s~~~ to go around.

I agree with you, but I am working a casual job to save up money to start my business, and I am exposed to consumerism at it’s best (or worst, depending on your point of view). From what I see and the conversations I have with the sales staff, apparently there is too much s~~~ to go around and no one is buying enough.

I see the staff going to the back dock, grabbing more junk to put out on sale, and having to squeeze them onto racks full with plenty of items from last season.

I literally watch zombies buy loads of s~~~ the don’t need with money they don’t have and there is still too much left to sell.

[WarratahParticipant 895]

That’s scary, Duke, because that tells us that there is a scarcity.
A scarcity of cash.
Your point of people buying crap they don’t need with money they don’t have just illustrates farther how mass consumerism leads people to believe in ‘infinity’.
(Best wishes for your business btw! – there’s nothing I love more than the energy surrounding someone when they start a new business. I truly wish you well!)

...And in our own despair, against our will, Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Agamemnon; by Aeschylus

[Duke TogoParticipant 2664]

Warratah wrote:

That’s scary, Duke, because that tells us that there is a scarcity.
A scarcity of cash.
Your point of people buying crap they don’t need with money they don’t have just illustrates farther how mass consumerism leads people to believe in ‘infinity’.

Plastic. All bought on plastic. Cash is gone.

It is crazy to see what goes on in department stores. People buying things, people stealing things and the store crying poor as they aren’t selling enough and have too much stock. I have witnessed this as well as good workers losing their jobs.

Warratah wrote:

(Best wishes for your business btw! – there’s nothing I love more than the energy surrounding someone when they start a new business. I truly wish you well!)

Thanks for the good wishes. I have worked hard and planned carefully. I am realistic and am ready to grind it out and grow slowly but surely. To be honest I am excited but at the same time careful with each step taken. I have reviewed my business plan 5 times already for crying out loud!

[The CaptainParticipant 133]

The positive thing about Consumerism is that the second hand market is getting huge and huge, and you can buy good quality stuff that you like for a fraction of the retail price.

If it works i don’t need it to be new. (some stuff not fleshlights, underpants and things like that…that i see you coming)

And at last nobody or only few knows if i paid the original price or it’s a second hand bargain.

Buying cool stuff at the prices of few decades when others struggle financially to get them is great.

When i’m tired of it i even can recover my money reselling it.

[Solo MAN’S WisdomParticipant]

MGTOW – a reaction to consumerism?

I don’t think so. Your insights notwithstanding, MGTOW started WAAAAAAYYYY before consumerism. It began thousands of years ago, when men realized that women were a distraction, at best, and poison, at worst.

When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.

[WarratahParticipant 895]

Well Captain, that’s the difference between a Fleshlight and a woman.
The Fleshlight is bought unused!

...And in our own despair, against our will, Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Agamemnon; by Aeschylus

[WarratahParticipant 895]

Solomons Wisdom – my point is that consumerism has enabled women to behave the way they are today.
Men have always known their nature and been aware of the dangers.

Proverbs 21:9 It is better to dwell in the corner of a rooftop than with a brawling woman in a wide house.

...And in our own despair, against our will, Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Agamemnon; by Aeschylus

[Duke TogoParticipant 2664]

I see your point The Captain, but I don’t think it is only consumerism that allows you to pick up good things on the second hand market. Frugality in the individuals that see value in these goods are what allows them to get into the hands of people that will appreciate them after they have been discarded by the “consumers”.

I have the same attitude as you, buy second hand if it is fit for purpose. But I sometimes get tempted to buy new… like that suzuki s40 boulvard I keep looking at. That bike is so “The Fonz”.

[The Missing ManSpectator 342]

I read your post and all I can think of is why do people still blame capitalism for all their plight?

[Duke TogoParticipant 2664]

Warratah wrote:

Well Captain, that’s the difference between a Fleshlight and a woman.
The Fleshlight is bought unused!

One is loose and dirty while the other is well fitted?

[Duke TogoParticipant 2664]

The Missing Man wrote:

I read your post and all I can think of is why do people still blame capitalism for all their plight?

I think he means Capitalism on steroids, not capitalism, if that is a fair way to describe what is going on today.

[WarratahParticipant 895]

Mr Arch-Vile – because capitalism has morphed into Consumerism.
What we find today is the same as when modern capitalism first came into existence during the Industrial Age – a tiny percentage at the very top holding huge fortunes whilst the mass of people struggle to survive.

...And in our own despair, against our will, Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Agamemnon; by Aeschylus

[OldBillParticipant]

As Solomon noted, MGTOW started long before consumerism. However, I believe WarHar’s insight still has merit.

In 1999, Howard Chudacoff wrote an interesting book entitled Age of the Bachelor: Creating an American Subculture. You might find these snippets from the jacket blurb interesting:

In this engaging new book, Howard Chudacoff describes a special and fascinating world: the urban bachelor life that took shape in the late nineteenth century, when a significant population of single men migrated to American cities. Rejecting the restraints and dependence of the nineteenth-century family, bachelors found sustenance and camaraderie in the boarding houses, saloons, pool halls, cafes, clubs, and other institutions that arose in response to their increasing numbers.

The figure of the bachelor–with its emphasis on pleasure, self-indulgence, and public entertainment–was easily converted by the burgeoning consumer culture at the turn of the century into an ambiguously appealing image of masculinity.

(bolded parts are mine)

There have always been MGTOWs. The rise in consumer culture, however, first gave existing MGTOWs more options and then later helped foster the social conditions which have caused the explosive growth in the number of MGTOWs.

Naturally, chief among the social conditions I refer to is the continuing self-degradation of women under the rubric of emancipation and equality of which mindless consumerism is a large part.

In my opinion, consumerism and the reaction to it have played an important role in the growth of MGTOW.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Duke TogoParticipant 2664]

OldBill wrote:

As Solomon noted, MGTOW started long before consumerism. However, I believe WarHar’s insight still has merit.

In 1999, Howard Chudacoff wrote an interesting book entitled Age of the Bachelor: Creating an American Subculture. You might find these snippets from the jacket blurb interesting:

In this engaging new book, Howard Chudacoff describes a special and fascinating world: the urban bachelor life that took shape in the late nineteenth century, when a significant population of single men migrated to American cities. Rejecting the restraints and dependence of the nineteenth-century family, bachelors found sustenance and camaraderie in the boarding houses, saloons, pool halls, cafes, clubs, and other institutions that arose in response to their increasing numbers.

The figure of the bachelor–with its emphasis on pleasure, self-indulgence, and public entertainment–was easily converted by the burgeoning consumer culture at the turn of the century into an ambiguously appealing image of masculinity.
(bolded parts are mine)

There have always been MGTOWs. The rise in consumer culture, however, first gave existing MGTOWs more options and then later helped foster the social conditions which have caused the explosive growth in the number of MGTOWs.

Did you have that book just laying around or on your shelf? The timing of your post and the book you have referenced have blown me away.

[WarratahParticipant 895]

Valid point Old Bill, however my point is that women, being more affected by consumerism, have encouraged the rise of MGTOW.
MGTOW comprises mainly divorced men. Men who’ve been obtained/discarded. Men who still believe, or who used to believe, in the sanctity of relationships and marriage.
Bachelors are a different kettle of fish, those lucky Devils never got married!

...And in our own despair, against our will, Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Agamemnon; by Aeschylus

[chirParticipant]

Warratah wrote:

That’s scary, Duke, because that tells us that there is a scarcity.
A scarcity of cash.
Your point of people buying crap they don’t need with money they don’t have just illustrates farther how mass consumerism leads people to believe in ‘infinity’.
(Best wishes for your business btw! – there’s nothing I love more than the energy surrounding someone when they start a new business. I truly wish you well!)

There is no scarcity of cash. We are awash in dollars. What there is a scarcity of is worth. The worth of cash vs the product has plummeted. Thanks to the Fed kicking the can down the road with “quantitative easing” translation. Debasing the dollars worth by electronically injecting more money into the banks. They hoped this would increase the velocity of money but it didn’t.

Government needs consumers “Sheep” so they can fleece the consumer. Consumerism of this age has nothing to do with capitalism anymore.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

[Duke TogoParticipant 2664]

Warratah wrote:

MGTOW comprises mainly divorced men. Men who’ve been obtained/discarded. Men who still believe, or who used to believe, in the sanctity of relationships and marriage.
Bachelors are a different kettle of fish, those lucky Devils never got married!

MGTOW may (or may not) comprise mainly of divorced men, but in my humble opinion it definitely comprises of men going their own way, which can include both divorced men and bachelors.

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