Hikikomori (Social Isolation)

[FragmentedParticipant 2758]

Hikikomori AKA young men that have had all they can mother f~~~in take of this LIE of a life we’ve all been sold.

http://register-her.net/web/guest/home

[Blood AxeParticipant 1179]

I wouldn’t have anything to do with society if not for my work. I need to figure out how to make money from my own home and my life would be perfect.

Back off Barbie!

[GrumpyParticipant]

Anonymous wrote:

I still believe that if i eat yet do not work, i must be stealing from society.

I used to think like this, and sometimes that thought still pops into my head.
However, I have to remind myself that I worked full time for nearly 40 years, paid into various societal funds, as well as into my own pension plan.
As someone who actually worked and paid into “society”, being equated to and held at the same standard as someone who never paid into the system gets irritating sometimes.

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[QuellParticipant 2538]

You feel for these guys because there is not much they can do. Their society is so rigid that if you don’t have the right job or salary you will be 100% ostracized. There is no upward mobility in a caste system.

Why spend a lifetime of hitting your head against a proverbial wall for a society that doesn’t want you when you can live at home and enjoy life on your own terms?

[Anonymous 12]

Grumpy wrote:

g-mow wrote:

I still believe that if i eat yet do not work, i must be stealing from society.

I used to think like this, and sometimes that thought still pops into my head.
However, I have to remind myself that I worked full time for nearly 40 years, paid into various societal funds, as well as into my own pension plan.
As someone who actually worked and paid into “society”, being equated to and held at the same standard as someone who never paid into the system gets irritating sometimes.

Oh, do not worry.
These Men (dare i say?) are the first ones to “go” when SHTF.
They are, on an economical scale, disposable. Leeches, if you will.
Them living out of their basements is another form of admitting defeat, and refusing to stand up again.
You on the other hand, have learned to stand on your own feet (as a Guy, not only as a mgtow)
So while they leech of the system, know, that others will die and get disposed of when the time comes.
You won´t.

[Anonymous 38]

OldBill wrote:

MGTaoist wrote:

Hikikomori is MGTOW.

No, the hikikomori are not MGTOW. The grass eaters, also known as herbivores, are MGTOW. The difference is that hikikomori do not support themselves.

Simply put, herbivores have jobs and hikikomori do not.

Hikikomori withdraw entirely from almost all social contact. They don’t work, they don’t go to school, they live off the labor of someone else usually a parent or parents. Most don’t even bother to prepare food and instead eat whatever is left outside of their door or left out for them during a daily dash to the kitchen.

I stand corrected.

[OldBillParticipant]

Anonymous wrote:

I stand corrected.

The two are easy to confuse, just look at the posts to this thread still confusing the two after I’d already explained the difference.

The grass eaters, or herbivores, are a uniquely Japanese version of MGTOW. They practice minimalism, live very frugally in a very expensive country, enjoy their hobbies, socialize with like minded friends, and work just enough to pay their bills.

In a culture where men regularly work themselves to death, where “salarymen” turn meekly over their paychecks to the wives, where husbands rarely get sex after the second child is born, and where the material expectations demanded by social status have become harder and harder to obtain, the grass eaters are to be admired. Many of us here talk the talk, but the grass eaters are walking the walk.

In many ways, Japanese society and Japanese women treat their men worse than men are treated by society and women in the Anglosphere so the grass eaters have consciously checked out the rigged game they face as much as practicable.

The hikikomori, on the other hand, are mentally ill. It’s not a conscious lifestyle choice as with the grass eaters. For whatever reasons, the hikikomori shut away the world by shutting themselves in a single room. They become living ghosts within their parents’ apartment or house. They don’t leave the room when they can be seen. They ignore basic hygiene occasionally sneaking out for sponge baths and tossing dirty bed linens outside knowing someone will wash and fold them. They eat whatever food is placed outside their door then slip the dirty dishes back outside with the expectation they’ll be washed and filled again.

They play the role of both a prisoner in solitary confinement and the guard who keeps the prisoner in solitary.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

How am I socially isolated? I have phone numbers of 20 of the best men I’ve ever met.

I chat on a program with men world wide.

I have more friends than I’ve ever had before.

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[TsarParticipant 393]

S~~~ if it were not for work and Church I’d be a total shut in so I can agree

“A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, ‘You are mad; you are not like us.'”

[DarkRyuParticipant 2354]

I emphasize with these men. They’ve found that porn and the internet is all they really need to be happy in life and their parents are willing to provide for them so they just do what they want and avoid other people. Unfortunately their parents won’t be alive forever and they’re missing out on their best working years. They’ll never be able to retire because they were “retired” until they were in their 30’s.

But really, I admit that if I didn’t have a business to run I would be happy just being on the computer all day every day. Playing video games, watching movies, writing, looking at porn, browsing the internet…it’s all men really need to be happy.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

Anonymous wrote:

Hikikomori is MGTOW.

Not quite.

There is some overlap, but the two are different things.

OldBill wrote:

The grass eaters, also known as herbivores, are MGTOW.

Not quite either.

There is some overlap between MGTOW and herbivores, but they are also two different phenomena.

[Lord HumungusParticipant 270]

If I was a young Japanese man I would spend all my free time racing radio controlled cars. Japan has the best RC racing in the world! I would be in seventh heaven there…

[Anonymous 9]

sidecar wrote:

Not quite either.

There is some overlap between MGTOW and herbivores, but they are also two different phenomena.

I’m sure women hate both of them equally.

[FunInTheSunParticipant 8283]

Jan Sobieski wrote:

How am I socially isolated?

The hikikomori lifestyle means avoiding face-to-face and physical interactions with other people. These folks will stay indoors and may communicate via text/e-mail. They don’t want to be in a competitive situation in a classroom or work environment.

"I saw that there comes a point, in the defeat of any man of virtue, when his own consent is needed for evil to win-and that no manner of injury done to him by others can succeed if he chooses to withhold his consent. I saw that I could put an end to your outrages by pronouncing a single word in my mind. I pronounced it. The word was ‘No.’" (Atlas Shrugged)

[OldBillParticipant]

sidecar wrote:

There is some overlap between MGTOW and herbivores…

The herbivore phenomenon is MGTOW through a Japanese cultural lens.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Red KnightParticipant 720]

I’m actually not too far removed from these guys. The major difference is that I work and make a big salary, but that’s really it. I’ll go to the gym a few times a week, but I spend little time socializing.

But the reason is not for fear of societal pressure; I’m just not that interested in people. They simply bore the s~~~ out of me.

Formerly MoneyOverBitches

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m sure women hate both of them equally.

Women hate everything that isn’t themself.

OldBill wrote:

The herbivore phenomenon is MGTOW through a Japanese cultural lens.

Not really. There’s some overlap, but they are not equivalent. I do business with some Japanese men who are quite carnivorous, but MGTOW through and through.

[OldBillParticipant]

sidecar wrote:

Not really. There’s some overlap, but they are not equivalent. I do business with some Japanese men who are quite carnivorous, but MGTOW through and through.

I do business in Japan too.

As for Japanese men being “carnivorous”, you’re not suggesting that herbivores/grass eaters are vegetarians or vegans, are you? I don’t think you are, but I don’t want anyone else to be confused.

While many Japanese men are unconsciously MGTOW, herbivores consciously choose a life more like what we call the “monk” version of MGTOW thanks to the healthy dose of minimalism they’ve added to the mix. In my opinion, this minimalism comes easy to them for two reasons.

First, materialism in Japan make materialism in Western countries look like a fart in a hurricane. It’s so far out of control, that it’s easier for people to recognize that it’s out of control and react against it.

Second, examples of monasticism, primarily Zen buddhist and Shinto monasticism, are still very much prevalent in Japanese society. Shrines of all shapes and sizes are everywhere and many are tended by monks. Traveling monks and lay people following shrine “routes” are daily sights meaning people living minimalist lifestyles, even if for short periods, aren’t cloistered.

Thanks to minimalism and their avoidance of Japanese women whose behavior and entitlement make Western women look good, the grass eaters have easily handled the huge changes in Japanese employment practices. Rather than chasing fewer and fewer classic “salaryman” jobs and killing themselves in the bargain, the grass eaters have crafted lifestyles which the new short contract style of employment can easily support.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Anonymous 2]

Hikikomori are not the same as herbivore men. Hikikomori stems from excessive pressure that parents put on their children. Around 20% of hikikomori are women. Obviously, hikikomori affects males disproportionately because it is males who will be expected to go out into the workforce and spend their life being providers, so more pressure is put on males to perform in school.

Matt Forney tried writing an article painting herbivore men as hikikomori. The two are completely different. Herbivore men are simply men who feel that marriage is a bad deal and they would rather spend their time and money on their hobbies.

BTW, the term “herbivore” is used because they don’t indulge in “pleasures of the flesh”. It has nothing to do with their diet.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

OldBill wrote:

As for Japanese men being “carnivorous”, you’re not suggesting that herbivores/grass eaters are vegetarians or vegans, are you? I don’t think you are, but I don’t want anyone else to be confused.

I’m using the Japanese idiom for “carnivorous” and “herbivorous”. And by that definition the guys I’m talking about are not herbivores in any way. They are aggressive, materialistic, and ambitious. And they don’t see any need to share their winnings with any woman. They have no interest in marriage, cohabitation, or children, and see such things as a distraction and liability. That makes them MGTOW.

The media likes to portray (and denigrate) herbivores specifically for not pursuing women and marriage etc., but really that’s just a small consequence of herbivory rather than its core tenet. Herbivores are a reaction to the Japanese corporate rat race. MGTOW are a reaction to the west’s s~~~ty sexual politics. Herbivores are a socioeconomic phenomenon, while MGTOW are a sociopolitical phenomenon. Herbivores see marriage and families as not being worth the economic effort to achieve, just like they see the three story house with the four car garage and the corner office as unworthy of the effort. MGTOW see marriage and families as massive legal liabilities, leaving the house and garage and office up to you.

Some herbivores are also MGTOW by intent, buyt not necessarily. Most qualify as MGTOW by default. But some are actually in long term relationships with women. They’re not against relationships per se, but don’t put any effort into gaining or maintaining them (which obviously doesn’t result in many relationships given women’s universally hypergamous natures).

[Author]

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