Home › Forums › Political Corner › Harvard Study Shows Rise In Minimum Wage Kills Businesses.
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IRuleMe 2 years, 7 months ago.
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Anonymous6http://www.dailywire.com/news/17758/harvard-study-minimum-wage-hikes-killing-amanda-prestigiacomo
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Well if this isn’t the most obvious case of “No S~~~”. $15 Dollar minimum wage is beyond stupid. And really shows how people don’t understand economics
I’ve been having this argument with a lefty friend of mine for quite some time now.
In my world view, people make choices about the skills they wish to develop, the values they wish to represent, the work they wish to perform and the quality at which they wish to perform it and that is what dictates their pay, in conjunction with their inherent limitations and the natural laws that determine the value of any given task.
In other words, if you’re 30 years old and still making $8 an hour working the drive through at Wendy’s after five years in, it’s either because you’re too stupid to do anything more valuable, you’re making bad life choices (drug use, criminal record, etc) or you just don’t have the ambition to do anything that’s worth more.
The drive-through job is only worth $8 an hour… not because the boss is a rich asshole, but because that’s all anyone in your market is willing to pay to get that particular job done… plus if you refuse to do it, there’s someone else younger, brighter and more ambitious than you that will do it for $8 for six months while they work their way into management.
Were any of these factors were different (e.g. nobody else wanted the job, it required more skill, it was producing more value) the job would be worth more.
In short, my argument is that everyone is getting paid EXACTLY what they’re worth. Across the board, no exceptions, as a result of their own choices.
My friend, on the other hand, believes that that all work sucks and people just take the “least objectionable” job they can find. Everyone deserves a “living wage” however, and it’s only because rich white men are assholes that everyone is broke and suffering.
I suppose in his world view, everyone deserves to be able to consume as much value as they desire, regardless of the amount of value they produce, and that all the jobs that nobody wants to do should be done by robots. I’m sure he believes in “basic” and drinks Soylent, too.
F~~~ing idiot. This is what happens when children who never stop indulging in magical thinking get to voting age. Maybe that’s why they call themselves “Dumbledore’s Army”… because they all think they’re wizards.
Anonymous6I know someone from college that thinks like that. Their argument is that minimum wage was created so that people could use it as a living wage and raise a family of it. Wait a minute!!!!
If you only make $8 dollars an hour, a family should be the last thing on your mind.You damn right you can’t raise a family off of 8 bucks an hour, so why would you do it in the first place. This goes back to your statement about making smart decisions. There was a professor at UCLA who said that three things were needed to stay out of poverty: Graduate high school, don’t have a child out of wedlock and be married before you bring a child into the world.
Now that last is one that will certainly get the fellas around here riled up, but it’s still true. These folks fighting for $15 dollars are just fighting to have their jobs moved to automation.
These folks fighting for $15 dollars are just fighting to have their jobs moved to automation.
Sometimes I get the feeling they’re fighting for a guaranteed basic income instead.
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Anonymous6Maybe that’s all they see themselves as. Low self esteem leads to low expectations. They don’t feel highly of themselves.
The Lucas found that lower-quality restaurants (indicated by Yelp scores) were disproportionately affected by wage hikes, increasing their likelihood of closure relative to higher-quality, established restaurants.
I wouldn’t call mom and pop restaurants “lower quality”. In fact, in most cases, not only is the service usually better than the chains, but so is the food.
Food service already has a high turnover, mostly because the system is structured that companies have to pay a mandated minimum wage of something around 3$ an hour. See, for waiters and waitresses, the tip is their “hourly wage”. That’s the way it’s structured. We’ve changed our tipping philosophy to being one that’s “customary”.
The reality is, tipping is optional, and given based on performance. Tipping was intended as a bonus based on the customer’s mood about the quality of service. But the system now has people reliant on tips as a wage, so when someone gets no tips, or bad tips, the government has businesses playing a “minimum wage” to offset any tip losses. The thing about restaurants where waitresses and waiters don’t bus their own dishes is, they have to effectively tip 20% of their tip to the bus boy for keeping their area clean, cleaning the tables, running for whatever things the customer needs while the waitress or waiter is tied up. So that 20% is hurting their already slim income.
Considering food service has very little upward mobility, it results in high turnover of employees.
Really, wow who would have guessed. Being forced to pay 15 and hour for “do you want fries with that?”
Is driving the use of computer kiosks in some restaurants. Also a kiosk wont steal mpney feom register or eat the food. So yeah they are “getting” what they want… however, bery people make it as those jobs are getting phased out. Is a perfect example of be careful what you wish for. As those jobs are becoming automated, since it is cheaper to pay a few people to way more stores than to pay that to a group of unskilled workers.
I am probably one of a very few people that think minimum wage shouldn’t exist. Market would adjust itself and people would be paid. But people lost the ability to negotiate for wages and that skill is now less common.
Hope that someday I may lead others the path I have learned. As Virgil led Dante through Hell.
Lefties are idiots about this. Let’s just say in theory minimum wage was enough for the average person to own a house and raise a family of four on a single paycheck and never work more than 40 hours a week like lefties think it should be. The average person would pretty much have no incentive at that point to get an education or work a physically demanding job.
If you were going to make 50k a year at a joke minimum wage job or 60k a year after 4 years of college it would literally be even less worth it to go to college than it is today…but what else to lefties want…”FREE” college for everyone lol. Just imagine what an awesome world it would be if you could go off to college and spend 4 years partying, come out with a worthless degree, then land a 50k a year minimum wage career stocking shelves in your local grocery store. Within 6 months on the job they’d be complaining about dumb s~~~ like Aunt Jemima is racism and Betty Crocker is oppressed.
I think a problem that is bigger than the value of minimum wage is the invasion of illegals and shipping of jobs overseas to lower tax countries that are driving wages down so jobs that once paid a solid middle class wage to American’s no longer have to…they simply hire illegals or move jobs to other countries and import things back tax free thanks to s~~~ty trade agreements. Ironically…what are two things lefties support…I don’t know if lefties truly hate America or they are just that stupid.
Anonymous6Lefties are idiots about this. Let’s just say in theory minimum wage was enough for the average person to own a house and raise a family of four on a single paycheck and never work more than 40 hours a week like lefties think it should be. The average person would pretty much have no incentive at that point to get an education or work a physically demanding job.
If you were going to make 50k a year at a joke minimum wage job or 60k a year after 4 years of college it would literally be even less worth it to go to college than it is today…but what else to lefties want…”FREE” college for everyone lol. Just imagine what an awesome world it would be if you could go off to college and spend 4 years partying, come out with a worthless degree, then land a 50k a year minimum wage career stocking shelves in your local grocery store. Within 6 months on the job they’d be complaining about dumb s~~~ like Aunt Jemima is racism and Betty Crocker is oppressed.
I think a problem that is bigger than the value of minimum wage is the invasion of illegals and shipping of jobs overseas to lower tax countries that are driving wages down so jobs that once paid a solid middle class wage to American’s no longer have to…they simply hire illegals or move jobs to other countries and import things back tax free thanks to s~~~ty trade agreements. Ironically…what are two things lefties support…I don’t know if lefties truly hate America or they are just that stupid.
Damn it’s like i’ve met my twin!
F~~~ them.
This lefties think there is resources for everyone and becouse they are born into this world and are living beings they are entittled to a good life regardless of effort.
Have any of you been to Cuba?
In Cuba health is free like in Europe and a surgeon earn almost the same as the gardener of the hospital…
All the leftists are comunist and they wanna suck the blood of the ones that actually do s~~~ work couse “we all humans”
It’s about vocation not making a living BULLS~~~.
Do you know the time you have to burn your eyes, the sleepless nights, the tears it requires to be a doctor.
F~~~ men in Cuba I met a surgeon who made a living by playing music not doing surgery.
And also meet a doctor who was a prostitute.
A nuclear phisicist was a taxi driver… god damn it.
Actually the idea of comunism wasn’t bad in theory “to everyone according to they’re effort” but they forgot people Is mean, cunning and have no morals. If it’s free why not take it all?
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two plus two equals four, recent study shows
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Really, wow who would have guessed. Being forced to pay 15 and hour for “do you want fries with that?”
I had a friend that owned a seasonal restaurant a few years back. Well…more of a snackbar/ice cream joint. She’d pay all her part timers minimum their first summer…but the part timers were basically all high school/college kids or older folks just looking to keep busy more than anything. If they were a s~~~ employee she wouldn’t hire them back the next year…if they were decent she’d pay them a couple bucks an hour over minimum if they came back.
When the big push for 15 an hour was going on she flat out said she was going to close if it passed. She’d open at 6 for breakfast and close at 8 in the summer. She generally had 2 people on the clock plus she worked crazy hours…so to go from 10 to 15 an hour she’d be losing 10 an hour 14 hours a day, which was 140 bucks a day, or just about 1000 dollars a week, which after she paid all her bills and her existing payroll was more than she was even making in profit some weeks. Lefties seem to default to the “F~~~ Walmart” mentality when thinking of doing things like jacking up minimum wage but in reality it all the big corporations could just ride it out and adapt while small businesses would get crushed. Walmart for example…every time I’ve gone to Walmart I’m pretty sure half their staff could just go home and nobody would notice because they aren’t doing anything but standing around bulls~~~ting anyhow…it would be easy for them to cut their hours a bit and have management push their workers a little harder…but I’ve rarely gone into a mom and pop restaurant where half the workers were just hanging around out back having a bulls~~~ session not doing anything when they were not on break.
Anonymous6Walmart workers always standing around doing nothing but when its time for you to check out, registers always empty!!
How much do stores save be self checkout?
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How much do stores save be self checkout?
Probably not much. I know at the grocery store I go to they have 6 of them and they always have 1-2 people watching them probably partially to deter theft and partially because they get screwed up/operator error often, and I’m sure they cost more to buy/maintain than traditional registers. There usually isn’t a line for them either so its not like all 6 are used steadily. They still have actual people ringing too, how many varying depending on what time of day it is.
I kind of figured if they saved a bundle that would be all they have right now, but most the stores around here, if they put in any at all, it was one group of them years ago when they were new and they haven’t added anymore. One thing I’ve always wondered in the grocery store is how many pounds of fruit/produce get rung out as something that looks similar but is much cheaper…like some exotic 4.99 a lb apples getting rung out as the .99 a lb apples.
My thoughts:
There needs to be jobs available that do not provide a living wage. Because there is a market for that. Teenagers, and others, need to have a job that gives them some spending money, introduces them to what work is about, and provides incentive to get better skills that allows for a better job. It serves a purpose. If you remove those jobs, then there is no transition job for these people.
The left believe in a minimum wage because they believe employers are hoarding money. In other words, they are paying less to employees then they can, in order to keep more profit for themselves. And honestly, that absolutely could be true, for markets where they can get away with it. A higher minimum wage doesn’t resolve the problem though as it is blind and arbitrary with no ability to adjust and minimize negative consequences.
The correct vehicle to resolve the issue is a union. It’s not hard to see where unions have been effective, particularly in professional sports and such where the employees are clearly vital to the success of the business. Unions fail when the serve a political purpose rather then the needs of the employees, when they get too greedy and cause the overall business to suffer, or when the are circumvented through illegal workers and such. A fast food union could work with McDonalds to find the best wage for employees without pushing McDonalds to look for cheaper alternatives then employees…if it can be done at all.
Last point, I want reiterate what other’s have said about minimum wage reducing incentive to work hard. As a teenager, I worked in a movie theatre. For whatever reason, I wanted to take pride in my job and would often receive raises because of it. It never failed though, then soon after I got my raise, the other employees (and new employees) would get a bump in salary due to minimum wage increase. So what exactly was the point of me trying to be a better employee then my coworkers?
Ok. Then do it.
How much do stores save be self checkout?
I do not know, but I decided that I do not work for the grocery store. They can ring up my order and bag it. Plus if it keeps one man employed than it is worth the wait.
The whole $15/hr wage is just going to end up with as many of those jobs being replaced with robots, kiosks or other customer self help type things and cut that job out of the economy. So then where are these people left? Unemployed drawing unemployment money from the government for as long as they can, getting food stamps and generally leeching as much as they can out of government assistance programs. Then they sit at home and stream video games on twitch all day hoping for subs and donations.
The correct vehicle to resolve the issue is a union. It’s not hard to see where unions have been effective, particularly in professional sports and such where the employees are clearly vital to the success of the business. Unions fail when the serve a political purpose rather then the needs of the employees, when they get too greedy and cause the overall business to suffer, or when the are circumvented through illegal workers and such. A fast food union could work with McDonalds to find the best wage for employees without pushing McDonalds to look for cheaper alternatives then employees…if it can be done at all.
Problem with unions these days is unions. I was in one for 12 years, and it really wasn’t all that good for me.
All my retirement money my employer put aside on my behalf went into the union pension fund. Its about 40% funded right now and dropping every year I get my yearly statement. In other words my retirement money wasn’t going into an account in my name like my 401k money does, or a massive fund where people were drawing pension checks off investment returns…my retirement money was going into a fund getting drawn down by current retirees…meaning when I retire that fund isn’t going to pay me anywhere near what I have been promised.
I also filed one grievance the entire time I was there because management was making me do work that was at a higher pay scale without paying me appropriately, and the unions response was “they can do that, its management rights.” In other words…unions are a business and it was going to cost them time/money to fight that battle so they didn’t want to bother.
Another thing unions do that will butt f~~~ a lot of people is unless you are in a right to work state if you want to work at a union job you have to join the union. The union I was in charged a fee to join. I think it was like 500 bucks or something back then, that they took out 50 bucks a week til it was paid off. Its not a huge deal if you plan on being there for a long time…but what if your a student just looking for a summer gig or its just a part time job your going to have for a year, or even just someone who wants to take whatever job you can get while you look for something better or something and you get whacked with the initiation fee? Go work 20 hours a week at your part time gig and 1/4 or it is going to pay the union? We used to joke around when we had seasonal workers that got laid off or just people who didn’t last long…”thanks for the donation!”
Somehow though…all the union reps were driving around in new caddies and making 100k+ a year, which is more than any of the members I know were making, and that union donates millions to democrats every year even though 95% of the union guys I worked with voted republican. It seemed a lot like they did very little for me but they had their hand in my paycheck every week.
With that being said, I’m not anti-union. I think there are places where they can still do good. I just think a lot of them have very poorly managed themselves in the past and joining a union with financial problems is like throwing money away. I also think they have become far too politicized…they should just be representing workers…not donating millions of dollars to politicians. If I want my money going to politicians I’ll donate it to them, I don’t need the union taking it from me just to give it to s~~~bags I don’t even vote for. I also think that the lowest wage earners have the least to gain from a union, as backward as that may sound…I mean if you got a hospital paying all its nurses 60k a year while the average nurse wage is 70k, and those nurses unionize…they have a lot to gain even if they just get up to the average. If you get that union in a fast food restaurant where the average burger flipper makes 10 bucks an hour and the place already pays 10 bucks an hour…even if the union got them up to 11 an hour, like I said most of that is just going to get eaten up by the union itself, so whats the point? Plus its just easier to get rid of a dozen burger flippers and replace them tomorrow where as with something like a nurse…its a bit more difficult to replace a more educated/skilled workforce than it is mindless entry level labor.
I don’t need a college study to tell me that raising the minimal wage is a job killer. It’s obvious. If you make it too expensive to have workers, then those workers won’t have jobs to worry about. But some of these people think just because they’re poor, have families that they’re owed a living lifestyle.
Speaking of self checkouts, I refuse to touch those machines! I believe in jobs. So I rather give my time and money to someone the company is paying to ring up my items. I refuse to touch those machines, because it kills jobs, and those jobs are those that aren’t even good paying to start with. So I prefer to give my time and money to an employee, not a mindless machine. Besides, our grocery store chain out here had self checkouts and they took them out, and replaced them Express Lanes with paid workers, because the store kept getting robbed by people who worked around those self checkout machines. What I didn’t like was, back when they had those machines, the managers and employees would push and force people to use them and not the register with the employee. I told them “I refuse to use your machines. I will have that employee up there ring up my purchases, and if you have a problem with it, then I will leave my cart here and take my business else where, because I support jobs, not machines.” By the way, another reason I don’t like those machines is because it’s not the job of the customer to ring up their own purchases. That’s why there’s cashiers and baggers to that job.
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