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Dilbert 4 years, 7 months ago.
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I am posting my introduction here as one of our brothers requested it. First I’d like to apologize for posting without introducing myself as I realize that it was rude of me. Greetings brothers! My name is Leo and I am a 31 year old from South FL who is an IT project lead red pill who remained one since I was 14. Until recently I have not realized that the term MGTOW exists even less that there are such like-minded individuals like the ones posting on this website. Since middle school I realized the s~~~ tests women were playing and honestly I have to thank my old fashioned Cuban mother for guiding me. My red pill moment began during the early stages of my attraction to women. The term s~~~ test was not known to me at the time but it became something even I began to call it later on without knowing that it was a commonly used term. Well my cousin tried to introduce me to her friends and one of them struck me as very beautiful. To keep a long story short, I did whatever the other blue pills did to “court” the girl and noticed that while she accepted the gifts, I was being laughed at behind my back. It was not until a neighbors birthday party that I saw her true colors as she was very attracted to one of those thuggish kids in school. I asked like a gentleman if I could walk her home as it was really late and dark and instead of just saying no, she went psycho on me and started blabbering out some foul language as if I was physically harming her. The next thing you know I walked back home with my head held high but on the way I noticed that her and the thug wannabe decided to have sex in the small park on the way home and they were not very discrete either.
Sex wasn’t even in my mindset (I was 13 at the time) at the time as I simply wanted to do things like go to the movies, the arcade, or even go to the beach with her. It was then that I truly learned the lesson of “nice guys finish last”. Well while I had my head held high, that did not mean that I was not saddened by the revelation, so I began to analyze what was wrong with me first and then concluded that it was not me, but rather the influence gangsta rap culture had on both boys and girls. It was then I sought guidance from my mother who played both mother and father since she’s been a widow since 1985 and that’s when she thought back of what her philosophy teacher (likely wave 2 feminist) mentioned in her class.
1) Women will be over men
2) The concept of marriage will be extinct
3) The corrupt will rule over the goodAlas that is when the red pill appeared to me as I realized 2 and 3 was happening before me. I pondered my whole summer vacation on the matter while interacting with other kids and testing out other relationships, I realized that it was more of the same. By the time I was in the middle of 8th grade (14 years old), I decided to ask my fellow male classmates on what they thought about girls and unfortunately I received a lot of white knight answers likely influenced by their parents and environment. When I first became a red pill, I actually did have a hard time sticking to it which I now realize was due to the overwhelming amount of blue pills in my environment and my need to adapt during my youth. Although I ultimately did date women, I was inevitably too immature to realize the extent of the games girls and young women play. It was not until my final years of high school (I was 17) that I truly became the embodiment of what it means to be a MGTOW. I did not bother with proms or homecomings even though I’ve had girls ask me to go with them because I saw it as an obvious way for women to s~~~ game the hell out of guys nor have I ever voted for a single person even less a female for student council as that was nothing more than a popularity contest. Now as a grown man, I’ve seen many white knights in need of an awakening but some thought I was gay and some thought I was just nothing more than a misogynist. I never hated women nor sought to oppress them, infact I just wanted a woman that understands the true concept of equality in a relationship which after 26 years of living on this Earth I’ve finally found her and have enjoyed having my relationship with her for over 5 years now. I applaud my fellow MGTOWs especially those who have been such for such a long time as it appears to be a tough path. I will continue to share my knowledge with the community and hope that we can solve this problem that is wave 3 feminism the threatens the way of life of the common man.
Welcome again ☺
Great intro … thank you.
As you spend more time here you will come to understand why intros are so important for several reasons.
I’m sure you will enjoy this site and if you haven’t already … take a look around the archive.
😊
Welcome. How did you come across the phrase ‘mgtow’?
Great intro! Welcome!
First I’d like to apologize for posting without introducing myself as I realize that it was rude of me.
Welcome! And no apology necessary, you did a great intro.
Until recently I have not realized that the term MGTOW exists even less that there are such like-minded individuals like the ones posting on this website.
I was MGTOW for years before I heard the term. My history with girls and women is a lot like yours … except you learned faster and younger than I did.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?
@QCummer- I came across the phrase MTGOW while searching on Youtube for people’s opinions on mangina. I believe it was sandmans video that I ran across on the topic, so yes the topic came to me pretty recently.
@RoyDal- Oddly enough I actually have my mother to thank for guiding me towards this path so early. She actually was glad to hear that I am a supporter of MGTOW as she is what you would call a now extinct breed of “old fashioned” women that instinctively understood equity.
I never hated women nor sought to oppress them, infact I just wanted a woman that understands the true concept of equality in a relationship which after 26 years of living on this Earth I’ve finally found her and have enjoyed having my relationship with her for over 5 years now. I applaud my fellow MGTOWs especially those who have been such for such a long time as it appears to be a tough path.
You have it backwards. Being with a woman is the tough path, nothing is more rewarding or easy than going your own way.
Even if you managed to hit the lottery and find a NAWALT(literally less than 1%), she still can choose to divorce you for half of your wealth, have you pay alimony, sperm jack you and have you pay child support, or call the cops on you for domestic violence or false rape, and nothing is done to her for these false allegations or entrapments. Her body, her choice. Your wallet, her choice. Your future, her choice.
*click* All Women Are Like That
*click* Enough Women Are Like That
*click* Any Woman Can Choose To Be Like That With No Accountability
*click* Every Woman I Know Is Like That
*click* My Dad My Brothers And My Friends Married Women Like That
*click* My Mom My Aunts My Sister Are Like ThatGo ahead and spin the cylinder and put the gun to your head, I can almost guarantee you your brains will be blown out. The chance you don’t crash test dummy is the chance of a misfire or dud bullet.
Anonymous42hope that we can solve this problem that is wave 3 feminism
@leo-84, multitudes of men will continue to be burned by wave after wave of feminism, the solution is to get the f~~~ out of the water! Freedom is when a man realizes that he’s under absolutely no obligation to paddle the waves of feminism and risk being eaten by sharks!
Every aspect of the modern paradigm of male/female relationships has transformed male/female bonding into a black widow event for the male! Therefore the problem can only be solved by allowing the sharks to feed on each other while we remain on the beach and warn fellow brothers of the danger…. GOING YOUR OWN WAY, on your own beach, at your own pace, free of bites, free of fear, free of burden, enjoying the day, and being happy is the “SOLUTION”!!!
I never hated women nor sought to oppress them, infact I just wanted a woman that understands the true concept of equality in a relationship which after 26 years of living on this Earth I’ve finally found her and have enjoyed having my relationship with her for over 5 years now. I applaud my fellow MGTOWs especially those who have been such for such a long time as it appears to be a tough path.
You have it backwards. Being with a woman is the tough path, nothing is more rewarding or easy than going your own way. Even if you managed to hit the lottery and find a NAWALT(literally less than 1%), she still can choose to divorce you for half of your wealth, have you pay alimony, sperm jack you and have you pay child support, or call the cops on you for domestic violence or false rape, and literally nothing is done to her for these false allegations or entrapments. Her body, her choice. Your wallet, her choice. Your future, her choice. *click* All Women Are Like That *click* Enough Women Are Like That *click* Any Woman Can Choose To Be Like That With No Accountability *click* Every Woman I Know Is Like That *click* My Dad My Brothers And My Friends Married Women Like That *click* My Mom My Aunts My Sister Are Like That Go ahead and spin the cylinder and put the gun to your head, I can almost guarantee you your brains will be blown out. The chance you don’t crash test dummy is the chance of a misfire or dud bullet.
Snakes right, she’s bound to put a bullett in you somewhere along the way, just too many variables. You see, women cannot be grateful to a man or men in general, they lack that quality. It doesn’t matter if you shower her with gold dust and gifts galore, she won’t be grateful because in her mind she absolutely deserves it and worthy of more and more. In essence women cannot be bought, they’re just purchased temporarily like a lease. If she then becomes unhappy with you she’s now entitled to half your s~~~ and will gladly take it because in her mind she earned it by playing you. Its all a game to them.
"The wounds of honor are self inflicted"
I have to agree 1000% with Lord Vader and Snake. This is not an attack on you personally, but I feel I need to speak up.
Your outlook on life was very similar to my own. When I was younger and in my teens, I recognized women and long term dating as a colossal waste of time, energy and resources. I focused on school and educated myself until my late 20s. Then I faultered. I met someone I thought was the perfect woman. I did my due diligence. Almost a decade later I can categorically say I was wrong.
It is my belief that women, due to a biological drive seated deep in evolution, are not “programmed” to be loyal. This is rooted in a need for genetic diversity. The decision to stay with you is not logic based, but emotional based. It’s over when she decides it’s over. What you did in the past for her will not matter or gain you any sense of loyalty – that would be logic driven reason which is a male trait.
Historically, men used their surplus labor to build civilization for the advantage of their children and family. They received exclusive access to their mates reproductive resource in compensation for that surplus labour. Yet, they also set laws, rules, and regulations, that kept the illogical programming of women in check and protected their investment.
Fast-forward to the rise of feminism. No fault, lottery style divorce, that benefit women. Essentially she gets access to your surplus labour while you have lost the historical controls that civilization was built upon. Now the evolutional promiscuity is still in play. Worse still, laws will force you to pay indefinitely once the relationship fails.
Date by all means. But entering a long term, cohabitation or marriage relationship is suicide. You are essentially placing yourself in bondage.
- Marriage is described as an institution. You would have to be crazy to be commited to it. -"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal. Not people or things" Albert Einstein
@snake Thank you for your reply as you bring a very valid point. I did increase my chances as she’s not American and does not want an American citizenship as I recommended she doesn’t nor would I assist her in it. That in itself actually does provide quite a bit of protection as that no fault crap applies if both are American citizens. She did agree to a prenup too just incase and I 100% own my house and car right now so to that extent I should be protected regardless of no fault. The biggest risk is that she would snatch the kids up, fly to her home country, and I’d have no way of getting them back which would certainly suck. Yea you’re right it is my wallet and I am doing all I can to protect it. One step I’ve done to prepare was converting a large percentage of my cash into precious metals and/or move it to my LLC which is a wonderful thing as they can’t touch it if I got it before marriage as she can’t touch it. She also has no knowledge of it hell she doesn’t have access to any passwords. Snake I hate to say it but thanks to the poor saps that have suffered before me, I made plenty of preparations in the event of that ridiculous event if I decide to be a dumbass and actually get married.
@Tower I agree that it is a possible solution but then we’d be no different than the herbivorous men of Korea and Japan in that regard but only manly. Regardless of how much we want to avoid women, the sexual desire will always be there. It is our instinct to procreate but at the same time it is not natural to deal with the social aspect of it. Can we be like PUAs and simply regard women as a number? Sure but then you’re simply feeding some actual credibility towards those wave 3 feminists as unfortunately what PUAs do is easily perceived as misogynistic by definition. Again I do not think that it is but the media and feminist WILL perceive it as such. That would make the manosphere even more marginalized as a result. Remember we live in an age where even whores will not be judged as what they are but simply what they’re packing between their legs. PUAs can largely operate unscathed right now due to those large numbers of blue pills acting as a mask for them. If hypothetically a large influx of red pills come out of the woodwork, then the MGTOW message will come off as hypocritical as we’ve allowed PUAs to be a part of it. No PUAs I do not have any personal issues with you as I like the rest of the community feel that you are more than welcome into the ranks but the Army taught me how much of a bitch perception can be so build a strong case guys. As long as I’ve been doing this, going your own way has not meant to simply be a hermit rather seek a more organic relationship. We all agree that the state of the male/female relationship dynamic sucks monkey b~~~~ right now and we simply just stick to bros over hos for as long as we can. Now when those awesome Japanese engineers get those sex robots into production, women will definitely have to clean up their ways or become obsolete. Blade Runner or Cloud Atlas future here we come lol.
@eyeswideopen hmm your response actually does bring a chill down my spine. I understood what Snake was saying 100% and I acknowledge his wisdom as a warning but the fact that you more or less read me with your own personal experience makes me wonder about my own preparedness. Rather foreboding my friend but aside from what I told Snake as far as preparations what do you suggest I do? I mean she’s literally the ONLY woman I’ve bothered to introduce to my mother (red pill since 14 can do that to you) who actually sympathizes with the MGTOW mindset and she ok’d her and they get along extremely well. For as long as I’ve been a red pill, I guess I am not immune to complications like this.
We are not programmed to be loyal either as we have big ball sacks to reproduce a lot and not necessarily with the same female either. Sadly we can blame the Abrahamic religions for that widespread neutering on the male populace but I guess it was an effective population control measure at the time. The only lucky individuals still able to do that without social shaming are folks are Africans, Indians, and most Middle Eastern males.
Like I’ve told Snake she is not American citizen nor will she be (she can be permanent resident as there’s no benefit to her being an American citizen anyway besides taking me to the cleaners) so that does not apply to her as far as I know. You guys are likely far more legally inclined than I am but that’s what I’ve read. For dudes to protect themselves from no fault bs, they should do the following:
#1 100% Own EVERYTHING before you get married
#2 Have a LLC and slap money into BEFORE you get married
#3 Own physical precious metals. She can’t take what can’t be traced although yes that works much better if you do it BEFORE you’re married.
#4 If you did not do any of the above, have some hidden cameras to catch her in the act as most no fault states make the exception if you catch them blatantly cheating.If I am wrong please correct me but again thank you for your input as that is something I must seriously think about now.
Firstly, I am not dispensing legal advice. I am not a lawyer. You need to pay for a consultation with legal counsel in your area – a few grand is well worth it when you are talking about hundred of thousands of dollars in assets.
1.) All the “safe-guards” you are describing I honestly don’t think will protect you in the event of a divorce. Being a citizen of a country usually does not preclude your wife from making a financial claim. There is usually no citizenship requirements. For example, if you have children she will still be eligible for child support. Also, general legal tenant is whatever is perceived to be in the best interest of the children. That could mean awarding her sole possession of the matermonial home. Consult with a lawyer.
2.) In general getting married is signing your own slave warrant. You are entering into a very formal contract to become one in the eyes of the law. It is a contract with the state to provide for your spouse. I think your maneuvers will be meaningless, especially when she hires a lawyer to drag you through the system. Consult with a lawyer.
3.) Women are fantastic mimics/actresses when it comes to snaring you – boardering on sociopathic. No offence, but the women your going to marry will not be the one that you divorce. I found that out the hard way – remember logic does not apply. Past attitude will not be an indicator of future performance on her part.
4.) I am a firm proponent of human nature. It’s unfortunate, but I believe anyone needs to be burned at least once before you heed the warnings. Everyone is under the fallacy that they will beat the odds and be special. Highly unlikely you will.
5.) MGTOW is response to a one sided, unbalanced, and unstable social fabric. I wish it were not so, but it is. Long term romantic relationships and MGTOW are mutually exclusive.
6.) In the relationship you describe, you seem to be taking all the risk. Why?. Love? – This is just a state of mind. When things go wrong you will loose. I would not want to live the rest of my life with a women having her foot on my neck.
7.) Women are empowered today. Your spouse will become indoctrinated with American culture. Social programs and laws have made you obsolete as the patriarch and head of your house. All she needs is your seed and your in financial jail for the next 18-25 years. What is the point of having kids, and paying for them, if you can’t have any say in how they are raised? They will be her children, not yours – only your obligation.
8.) Loose, loose proposition. Close friends, all well educated, are just now starting to enter the divorce crunch. Women today look for a good, stable provider to have <b>their </b>children. Second your locked in they drop you and start casual flings 5-7 years after marriage. Laws empower them to do this. This phenomenon has been aggravated by social media.
9.) 50 years ago, no fault divorce aside, if you had a stay at home wife, the only real concern you had was the milk or the mail man. Today, with social media, your wife can be arranging her next fling over her morning coffee. Do you really think you are going to make her social, sexually, or emotionally satisfied for the rest of your life with all these option? If you think that is the case I have some magic beans to sell you.
- Marriage is described as an institution. You would have to be crazy to be commited to it. -"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal. Not people or things" Albert Einstein
Anonymous5Hi leobez84, welcome, it’s great to have guys of your calibre here.
I so wish I was as educated in the ways of women when I was your age.
Of course, you’re going to go your own way. It’s the only way to go. It’s got you to where you are now and if you go any other way you’ll only ever cheat yourself.The guys here have been giving you hard earned advice and I know you’re sucking up the knowledge like a sponge.
It’s amazing that you already know most of it.
Most of us aren’t even in your league. We got our knowledge from being financially ass raped, emotionally isolated and bludgeoned and socially shamed and discarded.
Again, I wish to f~~~ I was one tenth as educated in the ways of woman that you are when I was your age, without the ordeal of the school of hard knocks.The lengths you’re going to, to protect yourself, will most probably reduce relationship damage to some degree.
I can tell you’re a winner and a survivor and whatever happens you’ll make the best of things. You’ll certainly learn, in a positive way, from what ever happens.Again, a very warm welcome to a fellow brother.
@Eyeswideopen- Again you bring up very valid points and I will follow your advice and consult a lawyer. I’m currently a Florida resident which is a no fault state but very unsure of the laws of Maryland which I will be moving to within the next couple of months. I know that you are not a lawyer but I figured that given your backstory, that you were experienced in the matter by the time you were around my age. That is why I was wanting to hear how it went with you as you ultimately came to the same conclusion as the rest of our brothers after such a long period of your relationship.
To answer your 6th statement as foolish as it sounds to come from me, I guess you can say yea it is because I guess I regard loyalty rather highly. Considering my time in Afghanistan she stuck it out with only her PharmD course to keep her distracted. Without going into too many details, the vag was much tighter than usual from the 6 month droughts she’s been placing on it which actually isn’t good for them as she had to be given meds for me roughing it up a bit too much. It was a convincing sign of loyalty that she’s displayed on more than one occasion. She does not want an engagement ring as she understood that it was nothing more than a marketing ploy and an unfair one to boot. It may come off as too good to be true at this point which is why I’m giving her a long term trial of moving in before I even consider something like marriage which if things go my way won’t happen. Yes the American culture assimilation is the thing I fear the most but I’ve been exposing her slowly to it myself that way she realize how I feel about it from the beginning. Oddly enough I took the advice of a cum dumpster from back about 8 years ago who stated that women should be “trained” to meet your standards. The funny thing is that it works mainly because they remain childish and naïve for so much longer than men due to being more spoiled than their male counterparts. So far my training has lasted 5 years and is a success thus far as she before I started “training” her she had a very strong concept of equality for both races. I guess when your woman’s goal is to unify the healthcare between the rich and poor, men and women aren’t too far apart.
Anyway I will keep my wits about me with her thanks to what you’ve mentioned. I realize the best option is non marriage and that is why my trial period will be 4 years lol. Since the need to procreate will always be there, I know there’s surrogacy and that is my plan B if this one doesn’t work out.
@**** I appreciate the compliments, but I am simply a fellow member that is willing to listen and/or provide advice with our fellow brothers. As I’ve told several of our brothers, I was lucky to have been raised by a mother that supported such a doctrine as MGTOW which allowed me to red pill early. I can understand the regret that many in the community have but you are all enduring it in a positive way by guiding those who lack your experience from making those types of mistakes and I respect that a lot. Thank you for welcoming me into the ranks brother.
@leobez84; Firstly, I am not dispensing legal advice. I am not a lawyer. You need to pay for a consultation with legal counsel in your area – a few grand is well worth it when you are talking about hundred of thousands of dollars in assets.
1.) All the “safe-guards” you are describing I honestly don’t think will protect you in the event of a divorce. Being a citizen of a country usually does not preclude your wife from making a financial claim. There is usually no citizenship requirements. For example, if you have children she will still be eligible for child support. Also, general legal tenant is whatever is perceived to be in the best interest of the children. That could mean awarding her sole possession of the matermonial home. Consult with a lawyer.
2.) In general getting married is signing your own slave warrant. You are entering into a very formal contract to become one in the eyes of the law. It is a contract with the state to provide for your spouse. I think your maneuvers will be meaningless, especially when she hires a lawyer to drag you through the system. Consult with a lawyer.
3.) Women are fantastic mimics/actresses when it comes to snaring you – boardering on sociopathic. No offence, but the women your going to marry will not be the one that you divorce. I found that out the hard way – remember logic does not apply. Past attitude will not be an indicator of future performance on her part.
4.) I am a firm proponent of human nature. It’s unfortunate, but I believe anyone needs to be burned at least once before you heed the warnings. Everyone is under the fallacy that they will beat the odds and be special. Highly unlikely you will.
5.) MGTOW is response to a one sided, unbalanced, and unstable social fabric. I wish it were not so, but it is. Long term romantic relationships and MGTOW are mutually exclusive.
6.) In the relationship you describe, you seem to be taking all the risk. Why?. Love? – This is just a state of mind. When things go wrong you will loose. I would not want to live the rest of my life with a women having her foot on my neck.
7.) Women are empowered today. Your spouse will become indoctrinated with American culture. Social programs and laws have made you obsolete as the patriarch and head of your house. All she needs is your seed and your in financial jail for the next 18-25 years. What is the point of having kids, and paying for them, if you can’t have any say in how they are raised? They will be her children, not yours – only your obligation.
8.) Loose, loose proposition. Close friends, all well educated, are just now starting to enter the divorce crunch. Women today look for a good, stable provider to have <b>their </b>children. Second your locked in they drop you and start casual flings 5-7 years after marriage. Laws empower them to do this. This phenomenon has been aggravated by social media.
9.) 50 years ago, no fault divorce aside, if you had a stay at home wife, the only real concern you had was the milk or the mail man. Today, with social media, your wife can be arranging her next fling over her morning coffee. Do you really think you are going to make her social, sexually, or emotionally satisfied for the rest of your life with all these option? If you think that is the case I have some magic beans to sell you.
F~~~ing epic post, man.
Anonymous18When I was at a stage of ‘love’ you are in, no amount of red-pill wisdom would have swayed me from the pussy-allure.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but I sense through your intro that you would rationalize your partner as the exception to the rule. You will rationalize more again when the disillusion happens and the small red flags that were once ignored blossom to ruin your peace of mind. You do have to get burned once to have a reference point.
If I could do it all over again, I would rather be the thug f~~~ing that ho in park at 13. Even if he fails at everything else in life, he’s won at treating women for how they want/deserve to be treated. I am not condoning violence.
@ILearn- It is funny that you mentioned that as I slept over what was discussed and realized my actions. I am not a cynic by nature nor were the vast majority of the MGTOW populace which is largely why we’ve reached this point. Unlike the majority of the community, I have not been screwed over royaly by women nor the justice system as I never allowed it and I actually was good at following observations. I can tell you for a fact that being one at an earlier age than what appears to be the majority of the community does wear on you. I’ve spent so long not trusting women and pretty much keeping them in their place as they are very very predictable to me (like it’s literally a sixth sense to me). Everywhere I go, I see the constant s~~~ tests women play on men and already know whether the dude is going to put a ring on it, be a baby daddy, or hit it & quit it. You get told that you’re no psychic or you’re being a f~~ when you warn these men and yet I never said I was rather I see the patterns like PUAs do and I usually end up right. Oddly enough they fall multiple times before they finally take the red pill and become MGTOW. It is there where my dilemma begins. This is where eyeswideopen’s similar history actually made me wonder. If he fell at around the same point where I am in the “love” phase, what makes me think that I can hold out any longer? I know I am not weak willed as I’ve managed to do this throughout the prime of my hormonal development but it appears that you may have accurately pointed out that it is not indomitable.
That is the degree of wisdom provided by so many years of doing that made me quite cynical of women. I actually do have women come to me but I never took them seriously. When I found an anomaly, I found it really tough to resist. The fact that some of the MGTOWs in other communities have even admitted to still having wives makes one wonder of the possibility. It’s funny because I watchd a video on system manipulation yesterday and it keeps my mind spinning on this matter.
@leobez were you looking at the woman in the red dress?
Anomalies only appear anomalous, when truly they are more dangerous than everything else, as you don’t expect what will happen to you when it does.
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