Dream and Goal dashed, not happy about the road ahead

[Anonymous 0]

Agito
No dream crashes to death. Maybe injured, might need to be rebuilt and operate a different way, but dreams can’t be killed by anyone but the dreamer.
Every man needs to find what he likes and wants to do every day, no matter what it pays. 99% of the time the pay part is why men kill their own dreams. If the “entry level” dream job doesnt pay enough, get a job to supplement the entry level dream job until you get good enough to make money to survive on. Then you will be a “mid level” dream job, making a living. ultimately, you want a “high level” dream job, that makes more than you spend so you can feather the nest for hard times like illness, etc.
Bottom line, dont let the dream die, nurse it back to health, and supplement its shortcomings until it’s self sufficient.
In Fortis, Libertas.
Coach Beef

[Anonymous 12]

The part about chosing a new country –
if you had no girl attached, where would you go?
Think it through, get a maximum of info and intel.

I believe that one of your major failures was to understand that in your current place you are not welcome to the level you want to.
The door to citizenship is closed, and will remain closed, the door to integrate the local population is blocked, and establishing your own business as well.

Make sure that in the next country these 3 (or more) doors are open, wide open.
Not just to a few lucky ones, but to many.

And in order not to feel you wasted a decade, make sure you keep the fruits of this decade with you.
If you work long, keep the money and the Experience.
If you bumped your head, reflect and learn.
Do NOT squander it away on lifestyle(Opex) or big ticket items (Capex).

and finally:
stop thinking your efforts to anyone will be appreciated.
To your GF you are norhing but a Dog,
To the Economy you participate in you are nothing but a Drone,
to the culture you try to integrate you will always be an outsider.
Take all your expectations down. Not one notch. to Zero.
Burn your Dreams.

Get your head clear of Dreams and whatever she says.
Then you might have a chance of achieving your Goals.

[AgitoMParticipant 99]

Hi All,

Thanks a lot for your many comments. A lot of the things you all wrote struck a cord with me, and that in itself, made me feel a lot better about the situation I am in.

Old Sage worded part of how I feel very well. Mostly feel extremely sour about the time and energy lost. Wish I could just give up at this point, but honestly I can’t just stop breathing and living. So what to do? Indeed got to move on.

Related to what Yumbo said: Guess if you are in your 20s, a guy goes and chase a dream and a goal, and now I’m in my 30s it came crushing down. Perhaps the day I day (hopefully far in the future), the story of my life has been a lot more interesting then that of the average Joe.

Mudwhistle, guess you hit it right on the head. Though I hadn’t viewed it in that manner, guess the problem was that slowly over time the game changed in such a way that I couldn’t win anymore. Perhaps the wise decision is to just walk away from the game, though it surely hurts to do so.

Related to Coach Beef and g-mow. Not exactly sure if I should pursue a new Dream or just ensure the necessities are taken care of. Where my partner is already dreaming of our “better life” elsewhere, I keep telling her she is probably over glamorizing our new life which hasn’t even started yet, and I am reluctant to go and paint myself another dream since the previous one came crashing down.
Perhaps taking it slower and one step at a time might be the wiser approach here.

To answer g-mow’s question. Without a partner, I would have returned to my homeland in Europe. Not because I would be happier with that, but simply because it’s the route of the least resistance. Did set a ultimatum to my partner. If I find out in 2 years that history is just repeating itself in a new place, as in no stability can be built their either in terms of job, house and residency status, I will return to my own country.

To sidetrack a little bit, and address the lifestyle matter I briefly mentioned and g-mow also brought up. I’ve always had a very conservative attitude towards spending money. Don’t splurge and overspend on unnecessary things. My partner used to love splurging though. Can’t really blame her. Noticed in Asian countries that got well developed, the people will go completely overboard in spending on status symbols.

So my partner was often envious of seeing other women with expensive things. Managed to turn her attitude somewhat around though, the trick turned out to be a “woman’s trick”. Shaming other women. One day printed and brought home a online article stating that from every 100 dollars spent in this country, 65 dollars is borrowed money. So I simply told her: “Now you know how it’s possible people here have more expensive things then the average westerner”.
Much to my own luck, the following week she went out for lunch with a female colleague. They visited a bakery shop selling luxury breads. Her colleague didn’t want to buy any. It turned out that she and her husband bought every (unnecessary) status symbol people in this country desire, and now they are so over their heads in debt, they barely have money to buy food.

I didn’t really have to argue my case for a conservative lifestyle anymore from that moment onward.

[Anonymous 12]

Hi Agito M!

Thank you for continuing to assemble your thoughts, spending time to “figure s~~~ out”.

I hesitate to write this, so bear with me. Maybe i am misunderstanding something her, i very much could be:

Did set a ultimatum to my partner. If I find out in 2 years that history is just repeating itself in a new place, as in no stability can be built their either in terms of job, house and residency status, I will return to my own country.

I believe that observing what happens is right. (Observe, adapt, overcome or what ever it was…)
I believe that defining a point at which you will take action instead of getting even more lost is good.

However i must ask:
Why make an ultimatum to her? You would not want your GF to give you an ultimatum either.

I believe it puts pressure on your relationship, and that this kind of setup is not really fair. Especially since your success has nothing to do with her, but more with the Country you chose to live in.

Why involve her at all?
Choosing a wrong country where you are blocked in your path is one thing. You learned that lesson the hard way.
Now you send the message: either we succeed, or i will
-leave the new country
-leave no matter what you do, either follow me back to europe or not.

It is the second part that has me worried:
she might find all sorts of ways to keep you connected to her and block your path.

Why burden a woman with an ultimatum?

That is like giving her exactly two years to marry you and have an oops pregnancy.
Or to ride Chad’s Dick for two years, or find a better Beta wallet.
You are telegraphing your moves, you are telling her in advance what your plan is, you are predictable.

Do not be predictable.
Do not burden anyone with your plans and choices.

Just observe and take action as needed.
No justification or explanation required.

(?)

[AgitoMParticipant 99]

Anonymous wrote:

Hi Agito M!

However i must ask:
Why make an ultimatum to her? You would not want your GF to give you an ultimatum either.

I believe it puts pressure on your relationship, and that this kind of setup is not really fair. Especially since your success has nothing to do with her, but more with the Country you chose to live in.

Why involve her at all?
Choosing a wrong country where you are blocked in your path is one thing. You learned that lesson the hard way.
Now you send the message: either we succeed, or i will
-leave the new country
-leave no matter what you do, either follow me back to europe or not.

It is the second part that has me worried:
she might find all sorts of ways to keep you connected to her and block your path.

Hi g-mow.
Sorry for my late reply. My workload these days, specially with a upcoming trip abroad doesn’t allow me a lot of time to hang out on forums.

Let me try and explain the reason behind the ultimatum.
It’s not so much a matter of career success since we are both quite successful in what we do at this moment. From a work/career perspective, it would actually be better if we stay here.

Both me and my girlfriend are foreigners in the country we are living in right now. In my case I’ve been here 10-11 years, in her case around 7 years.
Since we are both working under Employment Passes, the following applies to us:
– No right to buy property.
– Employment passes need to be renewed every 2 to 5 years, subject that whatever ever changing rules and criteria apply at the time of renewal. Employment Pass not renewed means you have 1 month to pack up and get out, regardless of your employers wishes.
– Pay more income tax then the locals.
– Not receiving the bonuses and promotions the locals receive. (Mostly applies to my girlfriend and some of my friends, my employer is quite fair in this regard)

In short, the problem we are having here now is being unable to build up any stability combined with the ever looming treat of being kicked out of the country someday. And that’s mostly the criteria we have when going elsewhere. If we find 2 years down the road, we still don’t have any stability (temporary employment passes, no possibility to buy property), I feel we should just move out instead of chasing stability for many years again. Right now, she agrees with me since she also feels that obtaining stability is priority right now.

As for her getting pregnant, without going into details, it’s simply not possible.
So little chance I’ll get trapped due to a child.

[Anonymous 12]

Hi Agito!

Glad you find the time to come back.

I red this

Employment passes need to be renewed every 2 to 5 years, subject that whatever ever changing rules and criteria apply at the time of renewal. Employment Pass not renewed means you have 1 month to pack up and get out, regardless of your employers wishes.

and indeed, you are nothing but a useful tool to their Economy, are you not.
It sounds somewhat… shocking.
disgusting.
as if you were a second class citizen, despite your efforts and contributions.
Those are things to avoid in the future.

Does working so much prevent you from planning your future and setting up your exit strategy, your path to your own future?

I am using your local country as a “woman” that holds you captive, as a slave…
and might spit you out once your time is up.

That seems a bit creepy to me.

[AgitoMParticipant 99]

Anonymous wrote:

Hi Agito!

Does working so much prevent you from planning your future and setting up your exit strategy, your path to your own future?

I am using your local country as a “woman” that holds you captive, as a slave…
and might spit you out once your time is up.

That seems a bit creepy to me.

Hi g-mow.

You hit the nail right on the head with your comment. The way it is now, people like me are mere tools to the economy.

What happend is this:
About a decade ago, when I started out, people like me were brought in under loud cheers saying that talented people should be attracted to move there and settle down. As a matter a fact, the first question high Director of the company I first worked for asked me was: Are you planning to settle down here? This was their biggest concern at that moment. They didn’t want to invest in people who would after 1 or 2 years pack up and go home. This was also the tune sung be the government at that time.

But things changed since that day.
The large number of foreigners arriving, specially skilled and hard working ones, caused unrest among the locals. As a result of this the government changed their tune. Foreigners literally became tools, and the amount of foreigners were reduced by changing employment pass criteria. The ego of the locals was boosted by the media in every possible way.

Undesirable side effect: Not every local wants every job. So now a situation exist where companies can no longer hire foreigners, but locals will either not apply for the job, or jump jobs every 1 to 2 years as a quick way of getting a salary increase. As a result of this, companies go all out to keep their local staff happy with big salary increments, large bonuses and quick promotions. (I have seen several cases of this first hand though not within my organization)

As for my workload, well I try to allocate 1 tot 2 hours per evening at this moment to source for work and investigate how to shift to a other country. I’ve gotten really good in budgeting my time though usually at a cost of fun things.

As for the comparison you made. Exactly what I was also thinking.
To me this whole situation feels like a girl getting a guy to chase her for years, promising that if he proves his worth, he can be her boyfriend. But off course she promises that to many guys and is very selective of her guys as a result.

[Anonymous 12]

Hi Agito!

Well, you can see clearly what has happened, and is happening now.

What is appalling is that not only does a good man get put in the position as a provider(squeezed like a lemon) – in a relationship with a woman.

But the same kinds of mechanics, with different results, apply to an economy.

The bottom line i draw is this:
Men are disposable, on a small or a big level.
A tool.

I hope you find a way out, because walking away from an economy …
…and then finding your true human and inherent economic value…
damn it, that is difficult.

[SkinnySweatyManInAGreenSuitParticipant 94]

It sounds to me like you are torn between the relatively successful partnership you have and seemingly VERY difficult career/citizenship situation.
1. Count yourself lucky to have a successful partnership. That’s rare! I understand why you would value that relationship more than many on this site value it. Be aware that the stresses which seem tied to your relationship could stress it beyond repair if they continue.
2. You have a very technically and emotionally complicated situation. You are wise to explore novel options as your life is somewhat atypical. You took big risks for big gain. You show the qualities of a winner even though you are “down”. Kudos. Keep that approach.

In short, you will need to make your own life wherever you end up living, and with whomever you end up living with. Don’t forget that. I’ve had to leave two “decent” women in my life for logistical reasons. It was so difficult. Not just because I cared about them and knew I would feel their absence, but because I knew how lucky I was to find them! We must play with the cards dealt, and sometime that sucks to no end.
Be strong, stay strong. Be ready to reinvent yourself in your new location and see if things take off. Be ready for painful decisions if needed. A partner who truly cares about you wants to see you happy even if it causes them some pain.
Goodluck Brother!

Beer & BBQ

[AgitoMParticipant 99]

Hi all,
Here is an update on what has been happening on my side with regards to the situation I described here. It’s been a while since I wrote an update here on it, mostly because up until recently, little concrete things have happend. Next to that, I’ve been extremely occupied and working long days on a work project which may prove important to my situation.

Here is briefly what happend:
– Me and my partner went to visit the country we were considering to migrate to next.
– From the moment I arrived, I was not impressed by the country. It was very similar to my homeland in most ways. I didn’t see the point in migrating there.
– My partner did like the country, though she was mostly charmed by the stories of state well fare and laid back work life.

– My partner had an job interview in that country. Company expressed a strong interest to hire her.
– I had a prior arranged appointment with a recruiter, and got stood up by the recruiter. Did managed to talk to a replacement recruiter, who subtly ridiculed me for trying to look for work in their country while coming from a wealthy country myself.

– After the trip, my partner and I had strong disagreements about going there. Since she had received no concrete job offer, I decided in the end to just walk away from the argument, stating that if an offer would be made, she should consider it and decide for herself if she wishes to migrate. I would only follow if I could land a good offer myself there as well.

– This situation was in “limbo” for the next few months. Until a few days ago, my partner received word that one of her friends who we visited during our trip, and is working in the same industry as my partner, suddenly lost his job and is now struggling to feed his family based on well fare income.
– The company that interviewed my partner still didn’t make a offer, but did mention a targeted salary. My partner did the math herself, came to the conclusion, given the high cost of living, and tax pressure, the salary is not that fantastic.
– The final drop came shortly after that, when the company communicated they put her “on hold” because they just started interviewing a local applicant for the position.

After all that, my partner decided herself, to cancel her job application.
So moving to that country is completely off the table now.

The project I’m currently working on, so happens to be in collaboration with a company in my homeland. Am currently looking to complete this project, then see if it can land me a job in my homeland.

[Author]

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