Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Does honesty actually work in the long run?
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Blue Skies 3 years, 9 months ago.
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I’m sure you’ve heard someone say this before, gentlemen:
“..Since I believe honesty only works in the long run..”
But does it really? How far does being honest get you in, say, a job interview? Or on a date?
Personally, I think it’s complete bulls~~~. Over here, there’s a job guidance program for young people (mostly) to help find a job position that works best for you, and it’s basically split up between guidance groups that offer different ways towards this goal.When I was attending these “guidance classes” as it were, I was actually ENCOURAGED to lie about certain aspects of my life in job interviews to make them hire me. Even THEY think honesty is bulls~~~, and will get you nowhere.
What do you think? Am I wrong in my assessment?
"To live is to suffer; to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering." - Friedrich Nietzsche
No, youre not, women want you to be honest so them can control you more easily.
Men have strength and intelligence.
Women have information, sex and shaming tactics to control us.I’m afraid the answer may be complicated. To women though, you shouldn’t be keeping a woman past her expiration date (about 1 week).
“Those who trust women… trust deceivers”
Women should only be gone to when sex is needed. Otherwise they are a STRICT no-no. Men have always been ill advised to keep the company of women. Only a brainwashed feminist would converse with a woman more than required. Traditionally women are supposed to be confined to the house and do as they are told.
They are NOT for company. Please get this out of your head. Conversing with women has always been shunned. Love marriage is a BS feminist affair. Marriages are arranged by the father of the bride, and she is supposed to have no say. Their only duty is to serve their husband.
/
In fact even discussing women has been shunned and often OUTRIGHT BANNED.
I go by the theory that you have to look at yourself in the mirror every morning and lay with your thoughts every night. If you can do those two things, you are fine.
So, is it a lie that you can’t live with? That you will look in the mirror every morning and know that you are a fraud? Something that will cause you to lay at night and not be able to sleep because you know deep down that you really f~~~ed up, and knew going in that you were doing the wrong thing? Then don’t do it.
Now, a little stretching of the truth about how important you were on a project that worked out really well and looks good on a resume? Up to you to decide. Telling a woman that her butt doesn’t look fat in those jeans? Your call.
I guess the other part of the question is: does honesty work for what? For getting ahead in business? In the long run I would say yes for most of us. Obviously there are some really rich people that have screwed over a ton of people. They also probably don’t have any real friends because no one trusts them. But now they are old and only have their money to keep them company. That and a bunch of people that are willing to pretend to be their friend for access to the cash. Did that work out for them in the long run?
Order the good wine
I’ll go with honesty and take my lumps.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?
Anonymous11I’ll go with honesty and take my lumps.
I’ll second that. There are occasions where I will lie for strategic reasons if I’m dealing with an adversary.
As far as women go, I will always say as little as possible. One effect of red pill has been a decrease in my need to lie to women. I don’t really care what they
thinkfeel anymore.My default is to be honest. I’m always honest in my business dealings. Chronic lying will ruin your reputation.
I go by the theory that you have to look at yourself in the mirror every morning and lay with your thoughts every night. If you can do those two things, you are fine.
So, is it a lie that you can’t live with? That you will look in the mirror every morning and know that you are a fraud? Something that will cause you to lay at night and not be able to sleep because you know deep down that you really f~~~ed up, and knew going in that you were doing the wrong thing? Then don’t do it.
Now, a little stretching of the truth about how important you were on a project that worked out really well and looks good on a resume? Up to you to decide. Telling a woman that her butt doesn’t look fat in those jeans? Your call.
I guess the other part of the question is: does honesty work for what? For getting ahead in business? In the long run I would say yes for most of us. Obviously there are some really rich people that have screwed over a ton of people. They also probably don’t have any real friends because no one trusts them. But now they are old and only have their money to keep them company. That and a bunch of people that are willing to pretend to be their friend for access to the cash. Did that work out for them in the long run?
Fair points all around. I suppose some degree of honesty is required, if not for others’ sake, then your own. Honesty is just so difficult to come by in a society that was built upon lies and deception. It makes it somewhat difficult to remain honest yourself at times.
I’m afraid the answer may be complicated. To women though, you shouldn’t be keeping a woman past her expiration date (about 1 week).
Oh, that much is certain.
I’ll go with honesty and take my lumps.
Fair enough, brother.
I’ll second that. There are occasions where I will lie for strategic reasons if I’m dealing with an adversary.
As far as women go, I will always say as little as possible. One effect of red pill has been a decrease in my need to lie to women. I don’t really care what they
thinkfeel anymore.My default is to be honest. I’m always honest in my business dealings. Chronic lying will ruin your reputation.
When it comes to business, yes, I agree that it’s better to just be honest if you want to be a successful busisnessman. As for other aspects of life, I believe a certain balance is needed. Knowing when to lie and when to be honest is important.
"To live is to suffer; to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Anonymous11Knowing when to lie and when to be honest is important.
I don’t consider white lies to be lies as you are not being malicious. I prefer to be honest whenever possible though just to keep things simple.
Would you really tell your Aunt Bessie that her Tuna Surprise sucked? Or do you discreetly dispose of it in the trash or feed it to her dog?
I’d never tell people who give me food that my chickens really enjoyed their gift to me.
Knowing when to lie and when to be honest is important.
I don’t consider white lies to be lies as you are not being malicious. I prefer to be honest whenever possible though just to keep things simple.
Would you really tell your Aunt Bessie that her Tuna Surprise sucked? Or do you discreetly dispose of it in the trash or feed it to her dog?
I’d never tell people who give me food that my chickens really enjoyed their gift to me.
Agreed. Lies do not always carry malicious intent, as you say. Sometimes, lies are a good thing. Obviously, I encourage everyone to be as honest as humanly possible with their family members and friends, but a white lie here and there won’t harm anybody.
"To live is to suffer; to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering." - Friedrich Nietzsche
How far does being honest get you in, say, a job interview? Or on a date? Personally, I think it’s complete bulls~~~.
And I would agree with you! I think this is a great topic.
I was actually ENCOURAGED to lie about certain aspects of my life in job interviews to make them hire me. Even THEY think honesty is bulls~~~, and will get you nowhere. What do you think? Am I wrong in my assessment?
Same here. But Im just not built that way.
An office manager / friend once told me I “really need to learn to lie more”. To me that was the most screwed up bit of advice I ever heard – at the time. But I now understand why he said it.
Especially in the workplace (or job interviews).
This has two sides:
1. You can get fired (or not hired) for it.
2. You can also get promoted and a raise for it.The last company I worked for (on a full-time basis) LOVED brutal honesty and rewarded it – and I always do. But in a recent recruitment / interview process, it was SUCH bulls~~~ they wanted. I almost found it SCARY instead of comical.
They wanted me to write a “critical thinking test”. Yes really.
( Asking a MGHOW to do critical thinking? LOL! Bring it on! Are you ready?? )So I asked her “oh is this the kind of company that rewards, promotes, respects and encourages critical thinking? Excellent. I think I’m going to like it here.”
She didn’t like my response. ONE BIT.
I looked at the test, and it was just “tell us exactly what we want to hear”.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE:
During an initial phone screening, a woman HR rep asked me:
“so what kind of projects do you LIKE to work on?”.
“I don’t understand the question. That’s like asking a professional fireman what kind of fires he LIKES to put out. I approach every project like a fireman approaches a fire. That’s his job. He’s not supposed to LIKE it. He’s just supposed to do it.”
She actually laughed, but I was completely serious. She was expecting some other bulls~~~, and I knew it. But she called again, and I got hired.
••••
In dating and relationships…
Women (dates) love to say they want “honesty” but THAT is the biggest lie in itself. When you tell a woman the truth – the real truth and nothing but the truth directly – she doesn’t “reward” (or respect) you more for it. SHE WANTS YOU TO LIE!
Women actually PREFER when you tell them exactly what they want to hear. They don’t want to hear the truth or even a man’s opinion. I noticed they just want their own opinions repeated back to them in a deeper voice.
Every “relationship” I have ever seen was not based on “honesty” women pretend to want. Honesty actually killed it. It only “worked” as long as it was based on lies and mutually-accepted delusion.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.I agree that it’s highly situational. As an example, I recently had to have my gas metered upgraded. I had heard that the gas company can be difficult to deal with, and will only come out under certain conditions. When I was on the phone and the rep asked me questions about my meter, I gave the answers that would get me a service appointment, even though I wasn’t sure of the answer. I did not want to deal with the delays and figured I’d address a wrong answer later. Turns out I did answer correctly, and I avoided a hassle.
I’ll also lie to avoid a useless confrontation. Not saying avoid confrontations, just that there is often the wrong time and time to confront someone, and nothing positive could come from it.
I’ve heard it said though they you can who the liars are because they expect everyone else to be liars like them. They don’t trust anyone. While a would agree that excessive lying not only makes you an untrusting person, An untrusting person is not necessarily a liar themselves, they are just experienced.
Ok. Then do it.
Anonymous11Honesty actually killed it. It only “worked” as long as it was based on lies and mutually-accepted delusion.
Women just can’t handle the truth. Another reason to avoid them. I used to lie like a rug when I used to do relations~~~s. You f~~~ing have to just to have a modicum of peace. It’s not like I was even doing anything evil.
@Women: The path of least resistance with you always involves lying. That’s why your man always lies to you.
My friend almost got killed yesterday after a drunk crossed the center line. Luckily, he made the right choice and lived to tell the tale. His girlfriend cut into him like a buzzsaw when she learned the news.
And I would agree with you! I think this is a great topic.
Oh, my! The one-and-only KeyMaster graces my topic with his great presence? I am humbled, good sir.
All joking aside..An office manager / friend once told me I “really need to learn to lie more”. To me that was the most screwed up bit of advice I ever heard – at the time. But I now understand why he said it.
Especially in the workplace (or job interviews).
This has two sides:
1. You can get fired (or not hired) for it.
2. You can also get promoted and a raise for it.The last company I worked for (on a full-time basis) LOVED brutal honesty and rewarded it – and I always do. But in a recent recruitment / interview process, it was SUCH bulls~~~ they wanted. I almost found it SCARY instead of comical.
They wanted me to write a “critical thinking test”. Yes really.
( Asking a MGHOW to do critical thinking? LOL! Bring it on! Are you ready?? )So I asked her “oh is this the kind of company that rewards, promotes, respects and encourages critical thinking? Excellent. I think I’m going to like it here.”
She didn’t like my response. ONE BIT.
I looked at the test, and it was just “tell us exactly what we want to hear”.
And that’s EXACTLY why I hate job interviews and the like these days! They couldn’t give a rat’s behind about who you are or what merits you have: they just want you to tell them whatever the hell it is they want to hear. It makes me f~~~ing sick to my stomach! And my parents keep pushing me to participate in this nonsense. Can you believe it?
ANOTHER EXAMPLE:
During an initial phone screening, a woman HR rep asked me:
“so what kind of projects do you LIKE to work on?”.
“I don’t understand the question. That’s like asking a professional fireman what kind of fires he LIKES to put out. I approach every project like a fireman approaches a fire. That’s his job. He’s not supposed to LIKE it. He’s just supposed to do it.”
She actually laughed, but I was completely serious. She was expecting some other bulls~~~, and I knew it. But she called again, and I got hired.
That’s another thing which I find so incredibly frustrating: they keep asking these weirdly specific questions which there really is no concrete answer for. My manager at the guidance program kept asking me these BS questions, such as “What do you plan on doing next?”, or “Where do you see yourself in the distant future?”. I just sat there, completely silent. I was about ready to just dart out of the f~~~ing door.
In dating and relationships…
Women (dates) love to say they want “honesty” but THAT is the biggest lie in itself. When you tell a woman the truth – the real truth and nothing but the truth directly – she doesn’t “reward” (or respect) you more for it. SHE WANTS YOU TO LIE!
Women actually PREFER when you tell them exactly what they want to hear. They don’t want to hear the truth or even a man’s opinion. I noticed they just want their own opinions repeated back to them in a deeper voice.
Every “relationship” I have ever seen was not based on “honesty” women pretend to want. Honesty actually killed it. It only “worked” as long as it was based on lies and mutually-accepted delusion.
Women wanting honesty? Pfft! What a joke. Women in my (limited) experience NEVER wanted honesty. They just wanted me to tell them what they wanted to hear, as you said. Honesty matters to them as little as a speck of dust in the wind.
"To live is to suffer; to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering." - Friedrich Nietzsche
When I see a question like this on MGTOW, I immediately think of women’s s~~~ tests.
All women will tell you, “I want an honest man.” Or “I don’t want to play games.” Or the most egregious, “You can be honest with me, tell me anything. I won’t get offended.”
But even with women saying that, most of us know how the s~~~ test questions go. For example, the question, “Do these jeans make me look fat?” has put many a man in the dog house because there is no right answer.
Do they want the truth? (“No, your big ass makes you look fat.”) Nope. They want the lie of how great they look and then they smile and tell us we are lying.
Questions like “Do you think she is pretty?” “Are my boobs too small?” “Do you look at porn?” “What’s wrong?” “Don’t you think it’s nice when a man holds a women’s purse?” “What is your wildest sexual fantasy?” all require you to lie if you don’t want to rock the boat in a relationship.
So at least being an MGTOW can free you from having tell those lies.
"You don't know a woman till you have met her in divorce court."Women actually PREFER when you tell them exactly what they want to hear. They don’t want to hear the truth or even a man’s opinion. I noticed they just want their own opinions repeated back to them in a deeper voice.
KM is absolutely correct here, except sometimes they don’t want you to exactly echo their opinions, they want you to talk them out of whatever stupid thing they are thinking of doing. Good luck figuring out which answer your suppose to give.
This reminds me of an incident when I was married. I came home from work and my ex had bought this ugly looking gold wrought-iron wall hanging, and asked me if I liked it. I honestly told her I didn’t. She got upset with me, because I had told her the truth. She actually thought that I should have lied to her and told her I liked it, and let her hanging it up on the living room wall so I could look at that piece of crap every day. She told me that other husbands let their wives do it.
My ex preferred I lie to her, refrain from telling her the truth on a daily basis, just so she could have her ugly crap. She didn’t even like when I offered to go pick out something together that we both liked.
Ok. Then do it.
And that’s EXACTLY why I hate job interviews and the like these days! They couldn’t give a rat’s behind about who you are or what merits you have: they just want you to tell them whatever the hell it is they want to hear. It makes me f~~~ing sick to my stomach!
I’m telling you, we are kindred spirits on this.
I have wanted to strangle many an HR for their f~~~ing stupid line of questioning.But you know what I do? I dumb it down and play stupid… to make THEM look stupid.
“What kind of salary are you looking for?”
“A smart person would never answer that question. Would you like me to explain why?”
“um… well we need to know…..”
“No you don’t. My job is to present myself in the best way possible and give you 101 excellent reasons to want to work with me. Your role is to give me at last ONE reason why I should want to work for you – like a salary. Would it be appropriate if I asked HOW MUCH DO YOU PAY? Of course it wouldn’t. You placed the ad. I did not. Therefore it is up to YOU to make me an attractive offer.”
They are NEVER prepared for that. Because it’s the TRUTH.
Where do you see yourself in the distant future?
That’s one of my FAVORITE bulls~~~ questions and when a recruiter asks it, I realize It’s coming from an idiot who isn’t in a position hire anyone.
“where do you see yourself in 5 years”.
This is how I respond to that one:
/forums/topic/where-do-you-see-yourself-in-5-years/
Do these jeans make me look fat?
(lol!) was going to use EXACTLY that example earlier.
And I finally figured out the best answer for it.“Do these jeans make me look fat?”
“YES. Yes they do. Now get that fat ass over here before it hits the floor.”
Even if she’s model thin: LIE. Tell her she has a GREAT BIG FAT ASS and you can’t wait to put your handprint on it. Gets a laugh every time.
No woman will ever have sex with you for telling her the truth.
Make her laugh and she will do anything.If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.Honesty works if you want to build alliances.
But it doesn’t work too well when you’re dealing with trollops.
You have to lie to them to spare their feeling and avoid the emotional bowel movements.I have to say there are two standards, and they might be the opposite of what initially seems intuitive.
At a job interview they want to hear why they should hire you. A little embellishment concerning your level of involvement or results obtained might be the difference between you and some t~~~ who just graduated college getting the job. If you were to say that your results of an effort were better than they were you are lying. If you say that you were led a team for a certain venture then it would behoove them to check that you weren’t just the janitor at a place while company X did the next big thing. Overall, since they are taking the risk in hiring you then the verification falls to them.
With a woman, you should absolutely be honest. I expect you to pay for your half of all meals, vacations, and someday maybe if you pass muster cohabitation. I expect a sandwich and hummer/anal when I want it. If you cheat it will require a podiatrist and a proctologist to separate us. Put it on your dating profile for f~~~’s sake or talk about it on the first date. Any woman who responds that doesn’t want to live up to the commitment for actually contacting you after that is the liar, and an outright manipulative whore because she thinks she can get you to change. Those were your standards, they aren’t the only ones who get to have them.
When a woman writes her profile about her expectations, those are her actual expectations. Why shouldn’t yours be just as true for what you expect.
I failed to realize in my youth that I was the prize. I was going to work. I was going to earn. Little did I realize that due to feminism, that no longer meant I had to share. Road soon, Desert after.
When I see a question like this on MGTOW, I immediately think of women’s s~~~ tests.
All women will tell you, “I want an honest man.” Or “I don’t want to play games.” Or the most egregious, “You can be honest with me, tell me anything. I won’t get offended.”
But even with women saying that, most of us know how the s~~~ test questions go. For example, the question, “Do these jeans make me look fat?” has put many a man in the dog house because there is no right answer.
Do they want the truth? (“No, your big ass makes you look fat.”) Nope. They want the lie of how great they look and then they smile and tell us we are lying.
Questions like “Do you think she is pretty?” “Are my boobs too small?” “Do you look at porn?” “What’s wrong?” “Don’t you think it’s nice when a man holds a women’s purse?” “What is your wildest sexual fantasy?” all require you to lie if you don’t want to rock the boat in a relationship.
So at least being an MGTOW can free you from having tell those lies.
Absolutely agreed. +1 to you. Truth is, I don’t actually WANT to lie for the most part. I want to be as honest as possible with everyone, but given the current social situation, sometimes there’s just no choice but to throw out a lie every now and then to avoid certain unneccessary confrontations.
By putting someone on the spot with a difficult question, you force them to respond defensively. Some people just don’t realize that. I’ve made that mistake, and it almost cost me one of my closest friendships.
"To live is to suffer; to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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