Anyone got any good books on "useful" morality

[IRuleMeParticipant]

Ever5 wrote:

@Surfdude – Thanks. Yeah I’ve got Ayn Rand’s book, Atlas Shrugged. I plan to read it as well.

This whole thread turned into a S~~~ Show.

Every religious thread turns into a s~~~ show. That’s why many of us stay away from it.

[Ever5Participant 1008]

It was not supposed to be on religion. I was asking for morality, like atlas shurgged, slave morality vs master morality. I did get several ideas on books to looks at and will go through and write those all down, so that was good, but 75% of is now on aetheism vs religion.

Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.

[Cú ChulainnParticipant 3910]

Ok books on morals, Animal Farm and The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. The first is his well known allegory on the greatest disaster of the 20th Century, the Bolshevik Revolution and the subsequent logical end game of communism – totalitarianism, state tyranny and genocide. The latter was Orwell’s investigation of the lumpenproletariat of the British industrial north, and how socialism in theory could have been a good thing. He wasn’t disillusioned about socialism then, so maybe start with that book first.

Another author who championed a typically British Isles take on the immorality of exploitation and the good socialism could’ve done if communism hadn’t raised its demonic head, is Robert Tressell. His Ragged Trousered Philanthropists is his semi autobiographical story of poverty stricken decorators in the English town of Hastings in the early 20th Century. I challenge the most ardent libertarian to read it and not feel for the desperate characters in it. It shook me up, and still does. Tressell, whose real name was Noonan, was an Irish itinerant decorator who wrote the book and then died a pauper in Liverpool. His daughter found his manuscript and it was published. Many Labour Party members, when Labour was the party of the white working class, read it and joined the party. Labour today is mangina central dosed with feminism. But I still can’t fault the basic morality in it, and the call to brotherhood. But they were different times with real discrimination, and legitimate grievances. Not like the pampered and imaginary ‘oppressed’ today.

Below are some more of the books from arguably the greatest writer of the last century. Orwell had a real passion for understanding what was good and evil in the human psyche.

He lived with his morality, and was fascinated with the morality of others, spending a lot of time with the wretched and then with those on the front lines of that great battle for the morality of a whole nation in Spain. This is reportage as much as a dissection of the human condition.

So see also Down and out in Paris and London and Homage to Catalonia. Orwell touched on the nature of morality and lack off it in very recent history. He concluded that although socialism was a great ideal in theory, human nature was the fallible part of putting it into practice, Nineteen Eighty Four did as much as anythimg to put a final nail in the coffin of the most malevolent doctrine yet thought up by man.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Ever5 wrote:

It was not supposed to be on religion. I was asking for morality,

You claim to be a “student of religions”. I would think that you must have known that many Theists feel morality is directly linked to religion…

[surfdude12Participant 4103]

X11 wrote:

Confused;

Events in the bible actually literally happened or they are metaphors/allegories???

I’m no expert but think for majority of biblical history, it was mostly interpreted allegorically/metaphorically and recent trend of interpreting every verse literally is modern invention. That’s just based on my limited research. I don’t have silver bullet. But that interpretation style works for me since then verses are practical in every day life right now

[NerdTunnelerParticipant]

I read this story when I was a kid…I couldnt find it anywhere on the net so bear with me…

An atheist and a pastor/priest were eating at a fancy restaurant. The atheist was questioning the pastor/priest about the flaws of God and the Bible…Given that the questions were deep and profound, the pastor/priest could not answer all the questions. This was taken as a sign by the atheist that he “won” the argument and heckled the pastor/priest about it…

The pastor/priest continued eating his T-bone steak and calmly set aside the bone. He replied…Reading the bible is like eating a T-bone steak…You eat what you can understand and set aside the bone or the ideas that you cant understand. The atheists are so focused on disproving a God they dont believe in to know that they are choking on the bone…

Its a no win situation to discuss religion if only to prove that the other is wrong. Read and learn…Live and let live…

I stand with feet apart and let my balls hang free...Manginas dont have balls...See how they stand and sit at the whim of their masters...

[surfdude12Participant 4103]

Ever5 wrote:

@Surfdude – Thanks. Yeah I’ve got Ayn Rand’s book, Atlas Shrugged. I plan to read it as well.

This whole thread turned into a S~~~ Show.

Haha pardon the pun but you’re like a deer in the headlights in the derailed thread LOL

Yes dude I love Atlas Shrugged, reading it now (listening audiobook). It’s a monster but really good. I see MGTOW morality all over place. Just read about guy working his ass off, comes home and wife and in laws bitching at him why he works so hard etc etc = no gratitude for his efforts meanwhile dude is making $$$$$$$$$$ wife and in laws should be thanking him , plus everywhere we see theme of (a) acting in my self interest to do what is best for ME = MGTOW vs (b) sacrificing myself and doing what OTHERS want me to do. Love it

[Ever5Participant 1008]

@autolite – well I may study religion but I don’t really talk about with others.

Ok So I looked through. This is the list so if anyone wants to save some time going through the whole thread, here’s the list of books recommended

————————————————————————-

‘the God Delusion’ – Richard Dawkins
The God Shaped Brain and The God Shaped Heart by Dr. Timothy Jennings.

Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics
Read up on the three different schools of thought: virtue ethics, de-ontology, and consequentialism

Virtue ethics begins with the above Aristotle text as a starting point. I prefer Iris Murdoch, a modern british virtue ethics scholar, The Sovereignty of Good. Murdoch contrasts Kant vs Aristotle. Alisdair MacIntyre in After Virtue contrasts Nietzsche vs Aristotle.

Immanuel Kant’s Metaphysics of Morals

St. Augustine of Hippo. In particular his “On the Morales of the Manichaeans”.
Beyond Good and Evil I would recommend On the Genealogy of Morals by Nietzche

Freud’s “The Future of an Illusion”

The Unfettered Mind- writting of the Zen Master to the Sword Master

Epistemology, which is the study of knowledge

American Pragmatism (see William James)

Eric Hoffer. I found “Between the Devil and the Dragon” very good and engaging. He is also the author of the True Believer.

Shakespeare are very much concerned with morality. Lots of good literature deals in morals too.

Dostoyevsky is a great writer on morality,

Crime and Punishment is his greatest work on morality and covers such fundamental moral issues as the will to power, poverty, criminality and ultimately redemption. It’s bleak stuff, but I feel better for having read it.

Ayn Rand books are also great

Animal Farm and The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell. Orwell had a real passion for understanding what was good and evil in the human psyche.

He lived with his morality, and was fascinated with the morality of others, spending a lot of time with the wretched and then with those on the front lines of that great battle for the morality of a whole nation in Spain. This is reportage as much as a dissection of the human condition.
Down and out in Paris and London and Homage to Catalonia

Nineteen Eighty Four – Orweel

Robert Tressell. His Ragged Trousered Philanthropists

Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.

[X11Spectator 4520]

Atheism is not a claim there is no God.

Atheists lack a belief in god.

You are confusing knowledge and belief or lack of belief.

It was the OP that erroneously called atheism a religion and then said he doesn’t want to talk about religion.

Brb – genociding the earth because God morals.

Brb – making place of infinity torture for non belief in imaginary being because god morals.

Brb – sending plagues, misery, death, killing babies etc because god morals.

Brb – eating shrimp is sin.

Brb – mixed cloth is a sin

Etc

How the actual f~~~ do you get morals from the bible.

[Ever5Participant 1008]

Atheism is a religion. I’m not saying that to be mean or be “smart” but it is a religion. And it’s my view that over the millions of incarnations we take in the human form, Atheism is merely an aspect of development and is as temporary as any other religion. It is a religion though, it’s a belief. You can’t disprove god, by making the “claim” that there is no god, that’s religion.

Sorry bud, you got a religion, it’s call Atheism.

Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.

[surfdude12Participant 4103]

@ever5 correct. Anyone can Google federal courts recently ruled that. Athirst prison Inmates wanted to be able to get the same privileges that Christian inmates do , so sued and won

[X11Spectator 4520]

Are you just trolling, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Lacking a belief is not the same thing as “making the “claim” that there is no god, ”

Get a basic understanding of logic.

If lacking a belief is a religion then I demand the government stops making me pay tax because of my religion. See how stupid your logic is, everything is a religion according to you.

You would also have to assert not collecting stamps is a hobby and not playing football is a sport.

My sport is not playing sport. I feel I am dealing with low IQ or brainwashed people.

[Ever5Participant 1008]

You are obviously emotionally invested in the idea that your religion is not a religion. If someone claimed that I had purple poka dotted skin, I wouldn’t be emotionally invested in saying, no, I don’t. If anything, I would question their sanity, are they on drugs? etc.

If you didn’t believe in anything related to god, then how can you believe that god does not in fact exist?

You’d be neutral on the subject entirely, and make no claims towards aethiesm. Then that would be considered Agnostic. Which is still a religion. That be not knowing whether there is a god or not. That would be a little more reasonable. Completely Neutral.

See what I mean. Like why are you so pro that God does not in fact exist? That to me is a religion, it’s something based on blind faith and emotional investment in those beliefs.

and what you said about taxes, you could very well make an argument that government is in fact a religion in itself.

Actually Agnostic would be the closest thing to a non-religion, but it’s still classified as a religion. What religion are you… “I’m agnostic”. But, simply saying I don’t know, I guess that could be a claim that one has no religion. And I can’t see a way to rebut that.

Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.

[X11Spectator 4520]

Oh my f~~~ing not god.

It must be either fear or getting mind f~~~ed as a child you can be this thick.

Which part of lacking a belief in god is not the same as claiming there is no god.

I can only try help you so much.

[Ever5Participant 1008]

That would be agnostic from my understanding. Not aetheism.

So ok, you’re right. If you aren’t claiming that God does not exist, then I guess that would be agnostic. But if you don’t claim that god does not exist, why does it bother you if people claim that there is a god?

And I might be confusing what you have said with other’s on this thread who have talking about there being no god and morality and all that. So Maybe I’m completely mixing up what you have said with others.

Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.

[X11Spectator 4520]

Atheism is about belief.

Agnosticism is about knowledge.

You can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist or gnostic or you can be an antitheist or a or a deist or a pantheist or a an atheist that believes in the supernatural or a whole bunch of other logical posititions.

I personally am an agnostic atheist. I don’t hold a belief in god but I don’t claim that a god does not exist. I also think arguments for deism to an extent are very plausible.

Why do I care? Because theists (not deists) impact on the every day happenings of how people live their lives. Separation of church and state not theocracy.

Believe whatever the f~~~ you want, just don’t try make laws etc that impact me also stop leaching my tax dollars to fund your bulls~~~.

[Anonymous 1]

Wow, this thread took the usual turn for the worst. Keymaster’s comments are pure GOLD. Read them and consider “Genealogy of Morals” too. Nietzsche was my first big red pill and I was Christian up until reading those books. I changed my belief based on evidence, logic and reasoning. It was incredibly difficult for me because I was terrified I would burn in hell forever. After asking the hard questions and risking my immortal soul to do so, I no longer have a belief.

If you are looking for Morality lessons, consider reading Mythology, Fairy Tales, and Fables from various different cultures. You will start to see that some Morality is relative and varies from culture to culture. Some Morality is absolute and is universally held from tribal cultures to advanced civilizations. You can see a universal concept of what is good and evil.

[Ever5Participant 1008]

I agree with you X11, unfortunately religions(referring to mainstream organized religion) are manufactured in order to govern people.

Religion ===> Government ===> Banking/Money, that’s how people are managed and controlled. What King George III would refer to as the Holy Trinity.

The only way to escape that would be to live on an island. In order to operate in commerce though, trade, you’d have to deal with people. Same with society/civilization. And that means having some understanding of their beliefs, their assumptions/presumptions, which is a religion. We all have assumptions/presumptions, we use them to exist, to get by. I honestly can’t suggest that a human can exist among other humans without a religion of some sort, some form of blind faith.

You can’t have a civilization/society without some form of “group think” or a consensus reality. Religion is the top tier of a consensus reality, that being, what does the “majority” believe. So separation of Church and State, though it’s an interesting idea, keeping a big organized religion out of the state, when you really get down to it, it’s impossible. Government could be argued as a religion in of itself.

Even at the banks. FDIC, “by full faith and credit of the United States” in reference to the US Dollar. Even money itself is a religion, it requires faith, and the faith of the majority, the consensus for it to work. Blind Faith. That’s what runs our world.

Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.

[X11Spectator 4520]

I still irrationally believe in people solving problems and creating a decent enough place to live in to reach your individual potential without, fear, slavery, brutality or tyranny. I believe in the one life we know we have and I know I will soon die. That makes me value this life and makes my morality authentic. I believe in caring for nature and all the plants and animals.

If there is a god and it is a caring and just god then my beliefs and actions on this planet should please it.

I believe all that in spite of all the evidence that points in the opposite direction.

[Ever5Participant 1008]

Exaclty X11, and that was my original motivation for creating this thread. On books relating to “morality”, more importantly, useful morality. IDEAS.

I realize that my morality holds me back. I don’t care about changing other people’s religions. I’m merely looking for ideas that I can adapt to make the most of what “is”. How can I walk amongst the people that are, with their perspective and all that, and make the most of my own individual life.

For example, believing that it’s good to be a man, and being man means doing things for women, being nice to women, putting up with their BS. Well, according to the consensus, that is “good”. Yet in my experience, it hurts me, so therefore it must be bad.

We can take ideas from anywhere and everywhere. For example, the Bible. If I am made in God’s image, then God must want what is best for me. So what hurts me is Bad, what helps me is Good. That’s a little simplistic, but I think it expresses what it is that I am looking for. Beliefs, perceptions, ways of seeing the world and the people around me in order to make the best out of my own individual life.

And looking at it, I would suggest it’s about cycles and adaptation. What is a beneficial belief today may be a detrimental belief tomorrow.

For example. the Housing bubble and the stock market bubbles, etc. At one point it is good to invest in these securities, and then the next, it’s a very bad idea. Staying on the cutting edge is what interest me. And I see morality now as not black and white as I did before, but as tools. Which tool works the best in this moment, the point in space and time.

Truth has no place to live in the mind of a woman.

[Author]

Posts