Anyone got any good books on "useful" morality

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

My offer is still open for the plane ticket to North Korea—any takers to Atheists paradise!

[ZarathustraParticipant 2246]

Also… a really good book on philosophy that is: simple, comprehensive and well written, is E.F Schumacher’s “A Guide to the Perplexed” It has a section on morality. Its also really short.

[X11Spectator 4520]

Religious people killed as many as they could with the resources they had.

Christian on christian wars are proof enough there is no god.

[RomulusParticipant 4667]

If you have an interest in philosophy, not morality based texts, a good dose of blue collar ethics can be found with Eric Hoffer. I found “Between the Devil and the Dragon” very good and engaging. It a collection of his writing. Eric Hoffer was an American born philosopher that didn’t have any fancy degrees. I’m not sure if he even went to college. He worked manual and blue collar jobs, but was very bright and interested in social issues. Self taught with respect to social philosophy. He is also the author of the True Believer.

How can a woman be expected to be happy with a man who insists on treating her as if she were a perfectly normal human being.

[Solo MAN’S WisdomParticipant]

X11 wrote:

The bible is a poor example of morality.

It’s not intended to be a exhaustive resource on morality. It’s an unvarnished look at God’s interventions to bring humanity back to it’s original pre-fallen nobility of character. It’s not a history book, but it has history in it. It’s not a book on mathematics, but has math in it. It’s not a book on architecture, but has building plans in it. It’s not a book on genealogy, but has genealogy in it. It’s not a book on poetry, but has poetry in it. It’s not a book on prophecy, but has accurate prophecy in it. Get the picture??

surfdude12 wrote:

Ok enough of the God/Athiest crap.

Thank You.

When women lead, destruction is the destination. -- Me.

[ZarathustraParticipant 2246]

Sorry but these people you speak of were not killed in the name of atheism. Stalin didn’t o around saying AHA I kill you in the name of atheism. That’s ridiculous. Also, are you saying Islamic fundamentalism is not a problem?

Honestly I don’t think Stalin cared a whit about atheism. Its was an idealology he used to break down common cultural ties in Russia at he time.

[Cú ChulainnParticipant 3910]

The works of Shakespeare are very much concerned with morality. Lots of good literature deals in morals too. Dostoyevsky is a great writer on morality,

Crime and Punishment is his greatest work on morality and covers such fundamental moral issues as the will to power, poverty, criminality and ultimately redemption. It’s bleak stuff, but I feel better for having read it.

[narwhalParticipant]

Sorry OP.

Autolite wrote:

No contradiction here. I want to know why Christians believe in something that has been shown to be man-made bulls~~~. It’s a legitimate and straight forward query.

Because I don’t see it as “man-made bulls~~~”. I’ve spent enough time looking into arguments about why God doesn’t exist and there is always flaws, the same as any proof that God does exist. They are always filled with assumptions, extrapolations, and pre-existing motivations tainting every statement made. The world is complex no matter how you choice to look at it, with plenty of room to get it wrong.

I have no interest in watching your video, nor explaining my beliefs to you. I’ve bothered all that before and it bores me to be honest.

I respect that you don’t believe, and I can see why you might believe the world would be a better place without religion.

In general, I would say that anyone that says that know is assuming that we actually have the capacity to understand it all, which can’t be proven anyway. As the saying goes….you don’t know what you don’t know.

As for morality, I’m not a fan. It’s usually used as a way of control behavior without providing any real reason or motivation to follow such behavior. Don’t ask questions, just do it. It is so easily twisted and used to shame and guilt you into submission.

The moral thing to do is to give some of your money to the poor. Why? Do they deserve it more than I? Will it improve their lives? Will it make me look better among my peers? Will it given a better psychological outlook on life.

I prefer to try and think of actions in terms of cause and effect. I choose to behave the way I do because of the probable consequences of my actions. Sometimes it’s selfish, sometimes it’s for delayed gratification, sometimes it’s because I get joy out of others pleasure, and sometimes it’s an even trade with my fellow man.

Ok. Then do it.

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

Zarathustra wrote:

Stalin didn’t o around saying AHA I kill you in the name of atheism.

NO but he DID go around killing people in the name of COMMUNISM and the central thesis of communism is atheism so you’re just playing with childish semantics to hide the truth.

Socialists and Communists exterminate those who challenge their political dogma–and that dogma is founded upon the primacy of the state; and by definition the abrogation of God. So yes they are one in the same. Your distinction is without merit.

And of course Islamic fundamentalism is a problem but I’m a Christian I can’t speak for the mooslums.

[Secret Agent MGTOWParticipant 22502]

Bible is good.

Golden Rule works pretty well if you are a normal person. Not going to qualify, you all know what I mean.

Women want everything, but want responsibility and accountability for nothing.

[ZarathustraParticipant 2246]

I just don’t get your reasoning: I mind as well offer you a ticket to the religious paradise of Iran or Saudia Arabia. Are you saying those religious countries are where you would like to live?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree and in friendship I will say that your love of great music allows me to understand how you could believe in God, though I do not, since the music you prefer is so “Divine”.

[X11Spectator 4520]

Solo MAN’S Wisdom wrote:

’s not intended to be a exhaustive resource on morality. It’s an unvarnished look at God’s interventions to bring humanity back to it’s original pre-fallen nobility of character. It’s not a history book, but it has history in it. It’s not a book on mathematics, but has math in it. It’s not a book on architecture, but has building plans in it. It’s not a book on genealogy, but has genealogy in it. It’s not a book on poetry, but has poetry in it. It’s not a book on prophecy, but has accurate prophecy in it. Get the picture??

Got it, it’s not really an authority on anything.

Just a loose incoherent set of texts copied from copies of copies of other texts with all the originals either non existent or of unsure authorship written by primitive goat herders and cobbled together by a committee of men and been fought about ever since.

Yep, got it.

[Cú ChulainnParticipant 3910]

Nuns were raped and murdered and priests tortured by the reds and anarchists in Spain during the civil war.

This was done in the name of communism, and the Stalinists were the worst offenders. “There is no God” was a battle cry.

A central tenet of communism is the destruction of faith, Marx himself called religion “the opium of the masses”. To say communism isn’t by its very nature atheistic is misrepresenting communists themselves.

[surfdude12Participant 4103]

Ayn Rand books are also great, discussing her Objectivist morality she derived.

-do not use physical force or fraud or intimidation to take another’s property (hmmm, MGTOW anyone???)
-man should be only motivated by his own rational self interest, i.e. only do that which fulfills his own self interest (don’t sacrifice yourself for others, don’t marry a c~~~ out of guilt, go MGTOW, etc)
-objective world is real and can be directly measured by man’s senses (contrary to some religions , e.g. Buddhism, that say nothing exists outside one’s mind and thus there is no such thing as objective reality)

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Autolite wrote:

Christianity (and the Christian Bible) are just man-made fabrications…

Are they?

Adam & Eve (as I illustrated) was written for a reason.
You see it play in divorce & family court every day.

“Woman destroys man’s paradise”.

… or at least, he ALLOWED her to.

You can actually draw from the Bible some amazing realities out of those fabrications. Whether you’re “religious” or not. It doesn’t have to happen “literally”. But even in this case, it happens for real every day.

Autolite wrote:

If there’s a rule that says counterpoints to posts about the Bible and religion are not permitted, I’ll comply…

This is why I avoid “religious” debates like a social disease. But absolute truth vs. relative truth is a basic requirement to understand. And it’s tangible.

For 40 years, I dismissed “god” and “the Bible” as religious hocus-jokus. But god means different things to different people. For me – a non-religious man – God represents the laws of nature. The way things ought to be. You can see it every day.

Do I “believe” in the Bible?

No.

….. but I have started to understand why it exists and was written in the first place. And why they call it “the good book”. It’s a good book!

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[X11Spectator 4520]

Cú Chulainn wrote:

There is no God” was a battle cry.

Evidence of atheists going into battle shouting this please.

Pistol do moustaches cause murder, Hitler and Stalin both had one.

The church threatened Stalin’s power, that’s why he killed everyone he killed because they threatened his power in his mind.

There is no law of atheism that demands communism.

Atheists can be capitalists, socialists, or whatever else. They just don’t hold a belief in god.

Trying to keep deflecting tough questions by yelling but Stalin was an atheist and he killed people does not make all the killing done by theists in the name if god justified as much as you wish it did.

[AutoliteParticipant]

PistolPete wrote:

My offer is still open for the plane ticket to North Korea—any takers to Atheists paradise!

Hey X11, maybe we should take PP up on his kind offer. It might be fun to go over there and f~~~ with North Korea’s Catholics… 😀

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Diocese_of_Pyongyang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changchung_Cathedral

[Cú ChulainnParticipant 3910]

My final word on this, but if you want the bible condensed into a simple morality then here it is.

Matthew 22

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Now if you lived your life like the second commandment you’d be a nice guy to have as a neighbour, no? And if that isn’t morality then I don’t know what is?

[surfdude12Participant 4103]

Keymaster wrote:

But god means different things to different people. For me – a non-religious man – God represents the laws of nature. The way things ought to be. You can see it every day.

That’s the whole point – there is a huge difference between:
1. a label (“God”) and
2. that to which the label points.

If I hate a label (the word “Chicago”), I may refuse to visit the actual city (that to which “Chicago” points). I’d tell you “hell no I ain’t going to Chicago, I hate that word!!!!” And you’d say “Bro, Chicago is just a word, just a label, the city is not the same as the word”. And I say “I don’t care!! I hate that word!!!” And yet when it comes to “God”, many people equate the thing with the word so dont even get past the word to define their own experience behind the word.

CS Lewis gave a genius example: If you hated the word “honey” and I offered it to you, you might say “I’m not tasting that, I hate the word honey!!!” Similarly, after you taste honey, the word “honey” would no longer be that important to you.

[X11Spectator 4520]

Love your neighbour etc predates Christianity and does not require a god.

Do you just pretend all the immoral s~~~ in the bible just doesn’t exist and pluck a nice verse out like cherry picking.

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