Search Results for 'chivalry'

I’ve noticed a lot of generalization and hatred towards women within the MGTOW community (all for good reason) and an almost unanimous agreement that chivalry is something to be avoided. I was raised to be gentlemanly, and chivalrous. A concept that until very recently enslaved me to the wills and whims of the women in my life. Having found MGTOW and actively applying it to my life, I have come to find a very different meaning of what it is to be “chivalrous”  The definition I have found for Chivalry is a code of conduct that promotes loyalty, courtesy, generosity, valor, respect, and honor. However, Merriam-Webster defines it as an honorable and polite way of behaving, especially towards women.

Needless to say, we can all take issue with the last definition. The obvious sexism that puts women on a pedestal simply because they wield the “almighty vagina”. However, the first definition, is not sexist in the least. Men and women alike are able to be chivalrous. The only issue being that only men are expected to be chivalrous. I want to go through this code and explain why I believe one can be MGTOW, but not let chivalry die.

Loyalty: The act of allegiance. Im sure at one point or another we have all felt the sharp pain of betrayal. Be it a broken promise; a friend speaking ill of you behind your back; your lover sleeping with another man. Whatever the disloyalty may be, chivalry defies that. Chivalry states that your word is your bond. In a relationship, it states that you will be monogamous. In a friendship, it means that you stand by them through thick and thin.

Courtesy: The showing of politeness to others in ones attitude and behavior. This is simply how we all wish to be treated. This does not mean to give women special treatment, however to simply be polite to everyone. “Polite”, does not always mean to treat someone well. For example, a simple “You are making me very angry right now. So I am going to leave.” Is polite, but it gets the point across.

Generosity: Showing a readiness to give more of something, as money or time, than is strictly necessary or expected. This could be taking time out of the day to be with a friend in need. Or a willingness to foot the bill at dinner with friends. Note, this does not mean you are required to do this at all times. Simply being willing to do so, so long as it does not compromise other parts of the chivalry code, such as loyalty or respect. Which leads to the next part of the code.

Respect: A feeling of admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements. Respect comes in two forms. Respect for others. And respect for yourself. To respect others depends largely on what the individual defines as respectful. However, a generalization of this is to keep in mind and consider the other persons wishes and beliefs. This does not mean to conform to them, but to understand how your actions will effect them. And then, respecting yourself. To know where you stand, and to stand firmly by that. Respect for yourself ties into loyalty in the sense that you deserve happiness and fulfillment. To treat yourself well and take care of yourself. Do what makes you happy, and present yourself with pride. An example would be, you want a guys night out. Your girlfriend or wife is p~~~ed that you would dare chose to spend time with the boys rather than her. You worked overtime all month and finally have a day off after spending every other day doing things with her. So you simply say “I understand that you want to spend time with me. But time with my friends is important to me, so that is what I will do. We can schedule another time to have dinner and watch ‘The Notebook.'” You have shown consideration for her wants, but also for yourself as well, unapologetically.

Valor: Showing great courage in the face of danger. Danger comes in many forms, be it as obvious as a man trying to mug you, or as subtle as a woman claiming false rape. We should not be afraid to take a stand and defend ourselves and those people and things we care about.

Honor: To be of high esteem, or respect. Honor does not come from oneself, but from those who see and respect the chivalrous person for displaying the qualities of the code of chivalry.

These things are not gender specific. And they do not promote a single gender above another. That is why I believe that chivalry and MGTOW can survive side by side.

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[Gone SurfingParticipant]

Women Going Their Own Way WGTOW.net is for women who have no interest in male chivalry, and no interest in being damselled or pedestalized.

Or in other words.

We are the NAWALT’s

 

When even the unattractive bottom of the barrel females can be swarmed with attention from beta males and manginas it becomes apparent that somewhere down the line, something went horribly wrong.

When it comes to online dating, the one thing that has drastically f~~~ed us over is preconceived notions of chivalry. More specifically! the idea men must chase and initiate the first move, this is the foundations of an unbalanced “game” that has been exploited to its fullest at our expense.

The reason in which we first created these unwritten rules is now obsolete due to the shift in power that now favours the female as the dominant species. Now I know what your thinking…….but try and explain what power we actually have over women in this day and age? And Lettuce be cereal, if a man hits a woman in public he is demonised and punished, but if the tables are turned he is laughed at and ridiculed.

Our power is meaningless and holds no true value beyond pure aesthetics and in most cases…not even once.

We now find ourselves submissive to the decisions of a female and the outcome of our actions will rest entirely in her decision, whether it be casual sex or a cup of coffee.

To further complicate matters and create even more unbalance is the sheer amount of competition you are up against.

The layers upon layers of makeup that these females wear has significantly affected the playing field and made the game almost unplayable for the less attractive males who would otherwise stand a fair chance at meeting someone they could be happy with.

This has led to men being willing to offer financial security for a piece of the action, which In turn has created a domino effect causing many of the more desirable females to pursue this as well.

For many of us, We are playing a game we can’t win, Many will fall and some may even give up all together and join the other team.

We need to take action and stop putting these girls on a pedestal because as much as they would hate to admit it, they need us.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

I get that. Probably more than I can explain.
But you may not have a complete understanding of MGTOW.

I was originally raised and even TRAINED that way. To extend everyone courtesies – even the unearned kind. But I also learned the REAL side of women at young age and quite frankly, they don’t deserve it.

Isn’t being chivalrous the act of treating women like the are superior? Kneeling and all of that. Being her white knight. This would imply she needs some kind of “protection”, but from what exactly? Women are perfectly capable (or at least they have the “equal opportunity” ) of standing on their own two feet to treat them like THEY need protection from anything more than you do. What does she need protection from? An Atom bomb? A bullet? Even “rape” is more likely to happen to a man than a woman. That’s a fact. Are women there to protect YOU from that?

When you think about it, the MOST “chivalrous” / Prince Charming examples you may ever find in modern culture are those stupid Vampires in Twilight. And justin Bieber. He will say and sing anything women want to hear. And their fan base is HUGE. So it’s a mistake to think women don’t like it. They LOVE it. All foreplay and no sex.

From what you’ve said, you’re the nice / Prince Charming type…. but then you say you “won’t settle for less”. You have a slightly skewed idea of what LESS is. By being prepared to lay down, kneel down, and be Prince Charming you are LOWERING your status for female affections and attention. This willingness is good for HER but bad for YOU.

I will be direct, but please don’t interpret it as shot at you….

sadly, women can not stand men who are the literal version of Prince Charming.

Neither can MGTOW. MGTOW is not a haven for discontent White Knights. In fact, MGTOW despise white Knights because of the atmosphere they create and force other men to navigate. For every guy who puts a woman on a pedestal, another man is having deal with her over-inflated view of herself. For every Twilight Vampire and Justin Bieber who sings songs about “dying in her arms”…. and “i wanna be your boyfriend” (is there any more pathetic song lyric?)…. another normal guy who says “hey you wanna go for an ice-cream” doesn’t have a shot in hell.

White Knights, Chivalry, and Prince Charmings are a cancer that must be carved out of the culture.
They are the men that say “yes” whenever a woman desires it.

MGTOW are the men who say NO. F~~~ING. WAY.

•••••

I understand you much better than you might think. Perfectly, in fact. The social, legal and dating climate IS f~~~ed up. Once may even say it’s beyond repair. Rhianna gets beaten and goes back for more. Women divorce their husbands for being “too nice”. But having witnessed it all first hand in every direction you look … how can you EVER be willing to hold a door open (or offer up Prince Charming) for a creature like that? If she were an ANGEL… then MAYBE. But, they ain’t no angles. And thanks to feminism, now everybody knows it.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[virginmd30Participant]

Being a gentlemen and displaying chivalry is not accepted or desired in these times. I still holds doors open for others and compliment others. I like to cheer others up and be an all around good guy. I make jokes and am very humorous. What I am stating is that the time of the 50s is gone and sadly, women can not stand men who are the literal version of Prince Charming. The bad boy is what they want and I can not act bad to save my life. I am just too good of a person so going my own way seems like the only viable option to this messed up dating world is go one’s own way and not settle for less imho.

[IggyThundersParticipant]

<cite>@soldano said:</cite>
What i’m about to say here is observation from working and managing a team of salespeople, in one of the biggest departement stores in the world.
I’ve discussed this over and over with female and gay colleagues every fashion week or when american clients or celebrities visit.
Remember, we have to deal with THOUSANDS of customers everyday, 70% of which are foreign and come from litterally every possible country.
So believe me when i say we know ho we’re dealing with.

American women are seen as: Not feminine, vulgar, braggy, lack of manners, not knowing when to shut up and thinking the world revolves around them, lack of taste and culture, heavy on make- up, botox and fake boobs. A sense of entitlement that defies logic even to other women, total lack of empathy, and a terrible fashion sense (at Paris fashion week they always come up with the most ridiculous attires to try to attract attention, but always end up the the fashion faux pas category while almost everyone else manages to make a good impression).
But hey, everyone kisses their ass because these women react well to flattery and have a lot of power.

To their credit they have good social skills and they are smiling a lot, and look good before 25.

To our sales teams, we recommand not to spend too much time with american women because they have the habit of being spoiled in the US and think the store people are here just for them , trying every piece of clothing in the store while talking with friends and not buying anything. The Real housewives type. They think shopping is some kind of social activity and that stores employees actually give a f~~~ and have time to talk about their poodle or that little hotel in Italy.

Does that ring any bells ?

By contrast, american guys are pretty much seen as the whole package.
Nice, make good money, hard working, rather good looking, not too demanding,sense of chivalry, strong honesty and family values.
The only negative thing about american guys is that everyone seems to thinks they’re boring.

As a result, american women often think they’re the s~~~ and that their husband is stupid, and put on a huge show in the stores,
but when they leave the girls often think the exact opposite, that the guy seemed patient and polite while she was being annoying.

Remember. These are perceptions and i’m not making this stuff up.
I’m not judging anyone.

Makes perfect sense to me. I would suggest that most of the men are “Boring” because they have allowed themselves to be cowed into silence and routine by their American women and our feminized society. Their whole raison d’etre is making money to please her and keep her happy. Especially with the upscale clientele that you seem to have to deal with.

[SoldanoParticipant]

What i’m about to say here is observation from working and managing a team of salespeople, in one of the biggest departement stores in the world.
I’ve discussed this over and over with female and gay colleagues every fashion week or when american clients or celebrities visit.
Remember, we have to deal with THOUSANDS of customers everyday, 70% of which are foreign and come from litterally every possible country.
So believe me when i say we know ho we’re dealing with.

American women are seen as: Not feminine, vulgar, braggy, lack of manners, not knowing when to shut up and thinking the world revolves around them, lack of taste and culture, heavy on make- up, botox and fake boobs. A sense of entitlement that defies logic even to other women, total lack of empathy, and a terrible fashion sense (at Paris fashion week they always come up with the most ridiculous attires to try to attract attention, but always end up the the fashion faux pas category while almost everyone else manages to make a good impression).
But hey, everyone kisses their ass because these women react well to flattery and have a lot of power.

To their credit they have good social skills and they are smiling a lot, and look good before 25.

To our sales teams, we recommand not to spend too much time with american women because they have the habit of being spoiled in the US and think the store people are here just for them , trying every piece of clothing in the store while talking with friends and not buying anything. The Real housewives type. They think shopping is some kind of social activity and that stores employees actually give a f~~~ and have time to talk about their poodle or that little hotel in Italy.

Does that ring any bells ?

By contrast, american guys are pretty much seen as the whole package.
Nice, make good money, hard working, rather good looking, not too demanding,sense of chivalry, strong honesty and family values.
The only negative thing about american guys is that everyone seems to thinks they’re boring.

As a result, american women often think they’re the s~~~ and that their husband is stupid, and put on a huge show in the stores,
but when they leave the girls often think the exact opposite, that the guy seemed patient and polite while she was being annoying.

Remember. These are perceptions and i’m not making this stuff up.
I’m not judging anyone.

[Cap285Participant]

POF deleted account.

Guess they couldn’t stand the truth. Here it is:

Let’s play a game I call ‘Reverse the Genders’. I’m going to write a profile similar to those of women in my dating range (late 30’s to late 40’s). Since you all have this Santa Clause long checklist where every box needs to get ticked, let me treat you in a similar fashion. I can’t speak for all men, but many, more than you know, agree with me. Don’t worry, plenty of thirsty of simps out there. Wondering what you’re doing wrong? Wondering why you can’t find the ‘perfect’ guy after being on multiple dating sites for 5 stinking years? Don’t act like you haven’t been. Imagine if every male profile you read was like this:

Hello. My money is my own and you will get none of it. Not for some time at least as trust and respect have to be earned. I have a kid and you will never be more important than her. Not. Ever. I prefer petite, women who aren’t land whales with at least shoulder length hair, and so if you’re amazon like tall, have a short ditzy-bob haircut or can’t control your eating, you need not apply. My exercise and hockey league take up much of my time but I’ll squeeze you in if I can. They also take up money…and that’s not going to stop even if we dated on a regular basis. You need to have job. You’re all equal now. If you’re not liar and are truly interested in real companionship, why does what I do for living or where I live matter? Pick equality or chivalry, you can’t have both. At our age, let’s face it, marriage is out of the question as most of us have been dragged through the divorce ringer. Why is just having a long term relationship a problem? Marriage is bulls~~~. Disagree? Probably means you’d like the law involved to get your hands on my cash. Move on.

You will never be my best friend as those are the guys I’ve known since the age of 17, military buddies I’ve bled with, kindergarten and birth. They like me for who I am. You never will. Sex is a very important part of a relationship. Yes, it takes more than sexual attraction and looks but let’s not kid ourselves. You know within the first 45-60 seconds of meeting us if you want to get horizontal (more on this in the date section). So none of this ‘friends first’ bulls~~~ as that means I’ll be shelling out lots of cash for God knows how long. We’re all adults here. No sex by the third date? Move on. Nor did I just fall off the turnip truck. You think I don’t you’re texting the guy you’re probably going to f~~~ later while we’re sitting at dinner? I’m on to you and tired of competing with your 24/7/365 connection to the hive mind. For the love of God, stay of your phone for 10 minutes, it that’s even possible.

You like to talk about how relationships take work while you won’t do it yourselves. I know your inboxes are over flowing so why work you can sit back and get your ego stroked? Same goes for first dates and as the relationship goes on. I work for the ‘pleasure’ of your company while you do nothing. I won’t put on a clown suit? The next sucker will, on to him. You want to work for a relationship about as much I like the Lifetime channel. It’s all empty rhetoric.

In no particular order, don’t message me if:
1.You have high angle pictures or other deceptive ways of hiding your body. We’ll have to meet in real life eventually so why lie? You want an honest man? Be honest yourself.
2.You think overweight means ‘average’ body type.
3.Have pictures of you with men in them. Who are they? Old boyfriends? FWB;s?
4.Pictures of you with your girlfriends. Which one are you? I’ll wager not the attractive one.
5.Pictures of you with duck lips. Are you 15?
6.Text talk. See 5.
7.Pictures of pets, flowers, motivational quotes, etc. Who the f~~~ cares?
8.Talk exercise and your body doesn’t reflect it. See 1.
9.Pictures of you in Chicago. I’ll just assume you’re pretentious.
10.Pictures of you with wine, going on about wine ad nauseum. Giant red flag of pretentiousness.
11.What I should be doing on the first date. Anything else mom?
12.You plan on giving me a job interview on the first date. Instant walk out.
13.On your phone? Instant walk out.
14.You have a motorcycle. Cool, but no thank you.
15.You have stupid statements in your profile. “I like to have fun!” No s~~~?
16.You are a ‘career’ woman. Pass.
17.You can’t cook.
18.We live in the same town and you want to drive all the way to the city to go to bars. F~~~ing really?
19.You get your life lessons/ideas from Sex in the City.
20.I like super heroes and science fiction. Deal with it.
21.Hockey season is coming. Hope you like watching the Blackhawks.
22.If you started liking the Hawks in 2010, Do. Not. Contact. Me.
23.If you can’t explain icing or off sides don’t even talk to me about hockey.
24.I’m a straight male. I don’t dance.
25.I own guns. I carry one. Get used to it.
26.If you’re “Waiting for Superman, Mr. Right, Prince Charming or the Perfect Guy”. Don’t hold your breath. Remember what I said about being on here for 5 years?
27.“If you can’t handle me at my worst, you don’t deserve me at my best.” I just threw up in my mouth.
28.“Tired of games, liars, players”. Heard it before. Prove it.
29.You’re ‘just looking’. This is a dating site professor.
30.I mostly watch animated shows. Deal with it.
31.I will not go to 50 Shades of Grey. Have fun.
32.If you like the beach. I hate sand.
33.You can’t pull off a bikini. A real one.
34.You have cats.
35.You have anything in your profile stating how crazy you are or how you’ll stab somebody because of your ethnicity. No thank you. Don’t want to be killed in my sleep.
36.You live in Chicago. Too far. Don’t like crowds, waiting or $8 beers.
37.If you think I’m meeting your friends anytime soon.
38.You’re looking for ‘casual dating/no commitment’. Translation – free s~~~ and no sex.
39.You list travel as an interest. It means I’ll be paying for trips. Plus, who the hell would want to go to an airport if they didn’t have to?
40.You think I care what your sign is.
41.You think you’re a queen or princess.
42.You’re pushing 40 and looking for someone to marry. For what exactly?
43.Your tongue is out. Put it back in your damn mouth.
44.“I’m done with the bar scene.” No, it’s done with you.
45.You do anything in mud. Are you a pig? Just another stupid fad you latched on to.
46.You have pictures of girls’ night out with stupid sideways peace signs. You’re always telling us to grow up, why don’t you do the same?
47.Contact me if we dated/talked before. I have a mind like a steel track and I will burn you.
48.Go on about your ‘career’. This does not turn me on, nor do I care.
49.Get surprised when I tell you to go f~~~ yourself if you flake on the first date. No, I won’t’ reschedule.
50.All your friends are guys.
51.You use the following words when describing a man: Career oriented. Secure in his career. Stable. Has a good job and so on. Translation-“I want $$$$$$$$$$$”
52.You have a motor mouth. That is why men play video games. Our consoles have an ‘OFF’ button.
53.You think communication means running your mouth 240 MPH while saying nothing. See 52.
54.I don’t want to hear about your ex. By all means, go back to the guy who spent his paycheck on cocaine or physically abused you as you can’t stop talking about him.
55.You’ve gone through a ‘cougar’ stage. Not paying for sloppy seconds, thirds or fourths you gave away for free to guys young enough to be your sons.
56.You think I’m going to communicate here for days.

A bar I will pick where we will watch professional hockey and you can pay for your own overpriced drink. Or, for once, you come up with something. Do I look like a jester that’s supposed to entertain you? You’ve gone on and on about how educated and intelligent you are but can’t figure out a date idea? It won’t be dinner. Whatever it is, you’ll be paying for your own s~~~. We’re adults, so if you think we won’t be horizontal after the third date, just move on because you want free dinners or lack the will to act which is probably worse.

Whoops. I just disqualified every woman in America. How does it feel? There are reasons you’ve been on dating sites for half a decade. Keep searching for that unicorn.

Friendly advice: Peruse the interwebz for multiple articles and videos of women lamenting about “Where have all the good men gone” and the like. You may control sex, but we control LTR’s and marriage. A little self-reflection wouldn’t hurt either.

Fuck this planet.

[Tbowden1Participant]

@ivaldir – I see where you are coming from and I should probably clarify my use of the word “Gentleman.” This post was directed toward the female version of a gentleman, not the type of gentleman you describe. A Gentleman, by definition is “chivalrous” which I absolutely refuse to be in a society where chivalry is another word for being taken advantage of by women.

If you are referring to the word gentleman as a way to describe a refined man, then I absolutely agree with you.

Let’s begin with some statistics.. For the first time since the U.S. Census was created in 1790, there are more people who are unmarried than married. The divorce rate is over 50% and in some places is closer to 70%.

Is this really a surprise to anyone? What’s the point..?
As of right now, anyone I mention the fact that I don’t believe in marriage to gives me a shocked look, a look that implies I may have just set a box of kittens on fire.. (that’s terrible). All jokes aside, it’s true. I don’t understand the shock in not believing in something that is old fashioned and presents absolutely NO benefits for a man.

This argument is always easily won with one simple question:
“What would be the benefit for ME to get married?”
Oddly enough.. the most typical first answer I get is “Tax benefits.” SERIOUSLY?! You’re saying you want to spend the rest of your life with someone for a simple tax credit at the end of the year? This logic is clearly flawed, especially when you consider all of the expenses that come with being tethered to a woman. Double the amount on food, Gotta have a bigger bed, they need their manicures and pedicures, purses, Christmas presents, flowers, do I need to go on..? The expenses FAR outweigh any small tax credit you would receive at the end of the year..

What’s next? Well then they all turn to the “love” factor saying that marriage provides companionship. First of all, why can’t you have a companion without a piece of paper signed by the government? Why is it necessary for me to bet half of my s~~~ to have “companionship” when I can get that from a girlfriend with absolutely no financial commitment. Second of all, marriage doesn’t guarantee companionship. Let’s not act like nearly 50% of failed marriages don’t end because of some form of infidelity.. That pretty marriage certificate doesn’t do s~~~ when she decides to cheat. You are NOT secure. “Why give a bitch your heart, when she’d rather have a purse?”

Marriage laws have been setup to only benefit women.. How often do you hear about a man leaving a woman where he ends up with half of her s~~~? The answer is RARELY (yes, there are exceptions to every rule).

I think it’s pretty clear to see why marriage is so flawed and continues to be a financial death sentence. There is no need for a man in a woman’s life any longer. With feminism taking over, the government provides everything: food stamps, welfare, section 8, etc. These are all things the man used to provide.. Couples had a mutual agreement, men went to work and provided resources, women stayed home and took care of kids, prepared meals, and took care of the home. How many women even know how to cook nowadays? How many women ACTUALLY clean..? Check the selfies out on Instagram of all these girls who look absolutely amazing, yet have a f~~~ing room full of clothes all over the floor. THESE are the women who you will be looking at marriage prospects. Women who have no desire to cook or clean and would rather stay at home and catch up on the latest “Keeping up with the Kardashian’s” episode. But that’s a whole other post…….

“Chivalry is dead..? No ladies, men in prior generations had women who stayed home and cooked 5 meals a day along with cleaning the house.. They also weren’t obsessed with Facebook selfies showing their t~~~ begging for attention from their 800 friends on Facebook. Remember this the next time you brag that you “made a home cooked meal,” one night of the week.”
– ME