When is it appropriate to start discussing compensation?

[RockmaninoffParticipant 1641]

I always hate it when people call me up out of the blue and ask my my salary requirements (you already know what you’re prepared to pay me, you dumb bitch!). I usually answer “a competitive salary for someone with my experience and education.” If they’re honest, they say “Oh well we’re looking to pay X, and we just want to make sure we’re not wasting your time.”

But there has to come a point where salary should be discussed. When is it appropriate? Second interview? Third? First time you’re face-to-face? Only upon getting an offer? What do you think?

". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée

[Freeman_KParticipant 3524]

Research what your skillset is worth and aim for high end.

Good read on negotiations:

The Art of Negotiation

The choices we make, not the chances we take, determine our destiny

[DorkShitParticipant 4353]

First. Start off as you intend to go.

Be bold. Seize the day. All that s~~~.

Seriously, everyone knows compensation is important. Always ask about it first.

What is my salary requirement? As much as possible, sir!

Peace brothers

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Rockmaninoff wrote:

salary requirements (you already know what you’re prepared to pay me, you dumb bitch!).

This is one of my BIG pet peeves and you nailed it. The “salary requirement” s~~~ test is now one of my favorites and this is how I last handled it:

“What are your salary requirements?”.

“I don’t …. understand the question.”.

“What kind of salary are you looking for.?”.

“I still don’t understand the question. Do your employees name their own salary? That sounds interesting.”.

(uncomfortable gina tingle) “We want to get an idea of where you need to be so we don’t waste each others timezez [sic]”.

(if you mention a number here, you are the loser. )

“It should already be assumed that as an employee, contractor or business owner…. if I/anyone provides a service, I/they can expect to be compensated to a degree that is commensurate with the value of that service.”.

If she has a single brain cell in her head, she will end the line of questioning right here. If she continues……

“You’re not the only one interviewing here. I am also interviewing YOU and and making a decision about whether or not I would like to work for you. Would it be appropriate for me to ask HOW MUCH DO YOU PAY? I wouldn’t dream of it.”.

“Well….”.

“Your role is to find the best person for the role that you’re looking to fill. So either you’re looking for the cheapest person, or you’re looking for the BEST person. Which is it?”.

“Well…. of course we’re looking for the best person. “.

“Then perhaps we should determine that first. Are there any other questions you wish to ask? Because I wouldn’t discuss the size of an engagement ring before a first date, either. Why don’t we have at least one in-person meeting so that we can establish a mutual interest in working together. That would be professional”.

(be creative with that last part as you see fit.)

One thing is certain: DO. NOT. GIVE. HER. A. NUMBER until YOU have decided you want to work for them. The topic is off limits until that time. I f~~~ing hate this line of questioning and I couldn’t be more passionate about it.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[narwhalParticipant]

I would never bring up salary. I’d prefer they just make me an offer and I accept or reject it from there.

Only one time have I ever been asked what kind of salary I wanted, and the fact that I answered almost cost me the job. This was around 1998 in the middle of the “dot com boom”, where companies where looking for anyone who could spell IT. I was working as an engineer in training, but not liking my career direction at all. I had taken on some projects where I did some Oracle coding. When a head hunter called looking for someone who knew Oracle to be a contractor/consultant, I interviewed.

At the time, I was making $40k working for the government. The head of my department was making $60k. I knew from a little market research that Oracle consultants made a bit above $60k. So when I was asked, I didn’t know how to answer. I didn’t want to come across as greedy, going for nearly twice my current salary. I also didn’t want to appear that I wasn’t up for the job by asking too little. So I ask for $60k. This was as much as anyone else I was currently working with, 50% above my current salary.

I got the job, and 6 months later I was told that they almost didn’t take me because I asked for so little, but took a chance on me. Then gave me a $12k raise to put me in the right ballpark and keep me from making an easy jump elsewhere for more money.

I would have taken $40k. They would have over around $75k.

It’s their job to tell me how much they want to pay for my work. It’s my job to let them know if the offer is worth doing the work. We can negotiate from there if need be…but I’ve never really needed to.

Kind of related, but years ago, a manager tried to convince me that their employee evaluation program was perfect. If I was rated low, that was my incentive to work harder. If I was rated high, that was my reward and incentive to work harder. He was shocked when I told him that if I wasn’t rated where I thought I should be rated (and paid), that was my incentive to go look for another job. The employee evaluation was really just a seniority scale in disguise…I was gone 6 months later.

Ok. Then do it.

[Ned TrentParticipant 4894]

At work on our pin board we happen to have this thing called the “magic triangle”. On each of its corners there is one certain job quality written down such as “cheap”, “well done” and “fast” and on top of the triangle it simply says “choose two out of three”…

So if you want to choose for instance cheap plus fast then the end result obviously won’t turn out to be a job well done or if you choose fast plus well done then the whole process simply will never be accomplished in any cheap way and so on and so forth. Now that mindset also works very well, I guess…

I'd rather die a natual death with a clear MGTOW conscience somewhere off the grid than one within "modern" civilisation with a big stress mark on my forehead and a couple of dozen tubes plugged into my body. Back to the plantation..? Me..? Hey, literally: I won't ever fucking kid myself...YZERLMNTSIC

[GeraldParticipant 3623]

Ton of experience in this one in the last three months.

If the employer is asking, avoid answering by saying something like what you have already, at least through the first two interviews. By then you will know their interest level and know if the job is a fit. Once you do, you should know their range and your value if you have done the research.

If a recruiter…if they are going to be paid by you, tell them, and what you are willing to take, so they know how to present you and won’t waste your time with underpaid jobs.

If they are being paid by the employer…they should be able to get the range from the employer and tell you, then you can decide where you want to aim for.

No longer can we walk away, we must run. Remove the motive power.

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

The general rule is that whoever gives a number first if the loser.

Don’t forget non salary things. Ask for an extra week of vacation, etc.

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[MattNYCParticipant 2329]

I get the most mileage out of the following:

“I don’t have a particular salary # in mind. I’m looking at the compensation packages overall, of all the companies I’m talking to. So I wouldn’t discount a lower salary # if, say there was more flexibility in terms of work from home or bonus potential.”

This tells them
1) I’m not a slave. I don’t actually need a job
2) Their company is not the only horse in the race

Then turn it on them, straight up ask
“What is the approved budget range for this position?”. This has always worked for me.

One caveat: if you’re talking to a recruiter, they’ll turn in to a total asshole once an offer is on the table. But use that against them – tell the recruiter you want the max the company’s willing to pay, +5%. If the recruiter wants to close the deal they’ll sometimes pay it out of their own commission. Cha-ching

[GrumpyParticipant]

Since I retired from my former career, I have only experienced 1 interview (in the last 10 years), where some dumbass asked me about a wage requirement.
I answered with
“I see” and began to gather my jacket and started to leave. When I was asked what I was doing, I answered with ” if you dont know what the pay requirements for the position is, it leads me to believe that you may not have all the information I require to accept your offer, and obviously YOU didn’t do your homework when you head hunted me”.
I have been fortunate that I normally get hired during the first interview (3 different fields) and leave on my own terms.
So I have no experience with the “haggling” for wages thing.

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[RockmaninoffParticipant 1641]

Keymaster wrote:

One thing is certain: DO. NOT. GIVE. HER. A. NUMBER until YOU have decided you want to work for them. The topic is off limits until that time. I f~~~ing hate this line of questioning and I couldn’t be more passionate about it.

Okay Key, like most of your posts, I’m with you 100% on a righteous, just ground. Always do I want to say your exact line of questioning during these calls.

However, it doesn’t matter if you’re “right.” You can be “right” all you want but not get the job. The negotiation table between an employer and a prospective employee is not an even one. As proof, an employer can ask for p~~~ samples for drug testing, references from past employers, etc. An employee can’t ask that of an employer.

Because it’s not an equal ground. If they don’t hire you, they operate at 99% capacity for a while longer, but you, without that job, may, at best, if you multiple jobs, be operating at 50% capacity.

All that hr c~~~ has to do is think she doesn’t like your attitude and write you off. Great. Where have I gotten? I’m still jobless.

When you call a gardner, is it reasonable to ask him how much he pays to cut your garden? Not really.

FACT: There are more workers than there are jobs. Supply, demand. They hold all the power.

It’s a big f~~~ing game, and you have to play it. That’s why I have no compunctions about lying my ass off on my CV.

Grumpy wrote:

“I see” and began to gather my jacket and started to leave. When I was asked what I was doing, I answered with ” if you dont know what the pay requirements for the position is, it leads me to believe that you may not have all the information I require to accept your offer, and obviously YOU didn’t do your homework when you head hunted me”.

i do believe im having a mangasm from this

". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée

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