What would it take?

[narwhalParticipant]

I like to think hypothetically sometimes of what would need to happen for me to consider marriage again. For me, it’s good to keep track of this as backup evidence of why it can’t happen. Keep in mind, I’m 43, so my considerations will be different then a 20 year old.

There needs to be very little risk of negative financial impact. This would mean the following.
– She has no existing debt
– She has enough income to support her lifestyle and has no expectation that I will fund her lifestyle.
– If she has kids, their financial needs are taken care of.
– The law needs to be changed so that upon divorce, you cannot take more then what you financially contributed.
– She has a proper retirement plan
– She has medical insurance. The law’s need to be changed so that I cannot be held financially responsible for her medical bills.
– The laws need to be changed so that I cannot held responsible for any debt she incurs.
– We will need to agree to maintain separate bank accounts and a joint account. Money will not be spent from the joint account without agreement from both of us. We will both contribute to the joint account.

Other:
– She will agree to accept me and my current behavior and hobbies.
– She will agree not to change her current behavior and hobbies.
– She will not expect me to attend any family events that I do not wish to attend.
– She will not expect me to attend anything that I do not wish to attend.
– She will not expect me to be a father figure for her children.
– She will not expect me to move from my current residence.
– She will respect my wants and desires for her within the relationship and will not use that as bargaining tool to get whatever she wants.
– She will make a conscience effort to maintain her looks.
– She will not ask me to have a child with her.
– She will understand that it will not be a fairy tale vacation.
– She will communicate her thoughts and feelings without extra drama and will be willing to discuss those and other topics in a rational, logical manner.
– She will not attempt to redecorate the home.

That’s enough for now.

Yep. I’m never getting married. And all that goes above and beyond me actually being attracted and wanting to spend time with her.

Ok. Then do it.

[RoyDalParticipant]

This sounds like a carefully programmed robot to me. I don’t think there is a human female that remotely qualifies.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[MattNYCParticipant 2329]

narwhal wrote:

She has medical insurance. The law’s need to be changed so that I cannot be held financially responsible for her medical bills.

Great point. I didn’t even think what would happen if she’s on my insurance, racks up a bunch of medical bills, then punches the divorce cash/prizes lottery. I’m stuck with her worthless student debt, and medical debt too!? F~~~ that s~~~.

Yet another reason to avoid marriage.

[Soldier-MedicParticipant 2566]

I hate to say it but I sounds like you are describing a woman that is more like a man.

All of the things that you have described are qualities that are rooted in having a realistic self perception, self determination, personal responsibility, and a healthy respect for your boundaries.

"I asked you a question. I didn't ask you to repeat what the voices in you head are telling you" ~ Me. ........Yes I'm still angry.

[TiredofbsParticipant 485]

Man, that is quite a list. Nothing wrong with dreaming, huh? I don’t want to sound like a pessimistic old fart but finding a woman like that on planet earth is as likely as literally finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. Today’s women, regardless of age, prefer men who will, in their words, “take care of them (hand over all of your financial resources), obey them, lavish them with undivided attention, pursue them constantly, tell them they look like Jennifer Lawrence (even if they are overweight, pimple faced and lazy as s~~~), clean the damn house, clean up their s~~~ty messes they leave behind them, feed the dogs, fix any and everything that breaks, pay all the bills to keep up a household, run kids everywhere they want to go, never say no to anything, put up with their constant mood swings and drama, beg for sex, constantly stroke their self esteem, and I’m tired of writing this s~~~…you get the message.

On the other hand, if you find a lady that meets that criteria, you’ve accomplished something.

I was thinking as I was reading your list, which is very well done by the way, that maybe you could pen this in some format under an alias and go mass market with it. I would love to see the look on most women’s faces when a new book comes out titled “What Men really seek in a Woman”…that would be priceless.

[narwhalParticipant]

I agree that it is highly unlikely to find someone who fits and agrees to this. It’s highly unlikely laws will change as needed. That is part of the point of the exercise, to reinforce what I already know.

And some of those I can compromise a bit, but not much. I could accept visiting inlaws to a certain level. It isn’t a matter of whether the expectation is realistic or not. It’s a matter of whether having to fund her retirement (for example) is worth having her as a wife vs staying single?

Looking at the list though, most of these things are what women ask for in a man and then some. For example, she not only will want him to have retirement plans, but be able to pay her as well.

Ok. Then do it.

[OgreParticipant 5863]

I’m still currently married, and she only gets tingles every now and then because I have learned to never tip my hand, but I will never even consider marriage again.

She’s actually a decent person and the best wife you could expect given the environment, but f~~~ all if I wouldn’t prefer to just be alone.

I’m your age, and I don’t care what she brings with her. She better take it with her when she leaves. I guess it’s my natural hermit nature coming out in my “old” age.

I failed to realize in my youth that I was the prize. I was going to work. I was going to earn. Little did I realize that due to feminism, that no longer meant I had to share. Road soon, Desert after.

[ILiveAgainParticipant]

I’m exhausted just reading it. Imagine having to go find it ?

[hmskl’dParticipant 6406]

It would take absolute proof that it’s a better alternative to what I’ve got going right now. So, unless some portal mysteriously opens into an alternate parallel universe .. it just ain’t going to happen.

[Silverstone the SecondParticipant]

I don’t know, man. This assumes more things change like
1.
Women being worth marrying at all.

Granted, your examples are good, but women really aren’t worth marrying. Even if the laws were changed tomorrow, I wouldn’t marry them at all.

Feminism is a movement where opinions are presented as facts and emotions are presented as evidence.

[GrumpyParticipant]

narwhal wrote:

like to think hypothetically sometimes of what would need to happen for me to consider marriage again

Considering something is one thing, committing or executing it is another.

IMHO, regardless of what changes (legally) it would take for me to actually get married again. I would not take the chance again, EVER, as it would most likely revert to exactly what it is today.
Marriage just isn’t worth it for me.

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[experiencedParticipant]

Their cash flow and net worth having to both be greater than the guy’s usually blows them out of the water. It assists in revealing their motives as well.

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[OldBillParticipant]

Interesting list, Narwhal. Extensive too. I’d be hard pressed to come up with such a detailed set of requirements like debt, insurance coverage, and the like. Instead, I’d focus on behavioral attributes like trustworthiness, loyalty, and reciprocity. Not that I’ve met many women, let alone people, who exhibit those attributes.

I’ve never seriously considered marriage. That is, I’ve never been involved with a woman of whom I’ve seriously considered marrying. I’ve thought seriously about marriage during different points of my life.

During my 20s while on active duty, I examined the question, noted all the failed marriages among my shipmates, and came to the correct decision to put off marrying.

During my 30s while traveling extensively worldwide for work, I was perhaps as open to the idea of marriage as I’ve ever been. I dated during those years as much as I’ve ever done, had the longest relationships I’ve ever had, and dealt with women on a personal level as much as I ever have.

During my 30s, however, the few women I might have thought about getting serious with also hated the fact that I traveled as much as I did. I believe this is when I started to consciously become a MGHOW as I could not help but notice how women loved the money and perks I earned from travel while also hating the job which required that travel.

By my 40s, the “devolution” of women and the pernicious effects of their mindless “race to the bottom” was becoming more apparent to thoughtful observers. This meant that just about the time my SMV peaked there was no way in hell I was going to become a 40-ish groom walking his 20-something trophy wife down the aisle because I knew just what horrific risks that little 20-something bitch posed.

Since then, my decision to avoid marriage has only grown stronger as women have become increasingly wretched. If a unicorn trotted out of the woods exhibiting my trustworthiness, loyalty, and reciprocity requirements I still wouldn’t be tempted.

It’s too late in the game for me to take any risk of any kind.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Author]

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