Value of College and Alternatives

[Foxtrot November GolfParticipant 28]

Hello gentlemen,

So ever since I was in high school, I’ve heard from elders that college is losing it’s value. So as a young, clueless freshman in college, I have to ask, how bad is it?

My major at the moment is double major of computer science and computer engineering that will take five years. However, if an alternative source of instruction would teach me more real life programming, coding, and computer skills, then I’d want to explore other majors. I want to travel with my work and I have to get a degree to become an officer in the Army National Guard, so getting skilled in computers through an alternative means of education and getting a degree like international business sounds appealing, but then of course the question becomes is that degree s~~~ as well.

What are your thoughts gentlemen?

And for those who don’t like reading:
-Is college losing value? Examples of now s~~~ degrees would be cool too, but eh.
-If yes, are computer science and computer engineering suffering as well?
-What are alternative (and better) ways to learn programming, coding, and general computer knowledge one would find in a computer science/engineering?
-Is my idea of learning computers from an alternative source and getting a degree in international business stupid?
-Any other knowledge or advice would be appreciated as well.

Have a nice day!

[HitmanParticipant]

federal,state or city civil service.
no wife or kids and you retire a MILLIONAIRE !
two year degree and test into your career .

[chirParticipant]

Foxtrot November Golf wrote:

Hello gentlemen,

So ever since I was in high school, I’ve heard from elders that college is losing it’s value. So as a young, clueless freshman in college, I have to ask, how bad is it?

My major at the moment is double major of computer science and computer engineering that will take five years. However, if an alternative source of instruction would teach me more real life programming, coding, and computer skills, then I’d want to explore other majors. I want to travel with my work and I have to get a degree to become an officer in the Army National Guard, so getting skilled in computers through an alternative means of education and getting a degree like international business sounds appealing, but then of course the question becomes is that degree s~~~ as well.

What are your thoughts gentlemen?

And for those who don’t like reading:
-Is college losing value? Examples of now s~~~ degrees would be cool too, but eh.
-If yes, are computer science and computer engineering suffering as well?
-What are alternative (and better) ways to learn programming, coding, and general computer knowledge one would find in a computer science/engineering?
-Is my idea of learning computers from an alternative source and getting a degree in international business stupid?
-Any other knowledge or advice would be appreciated as well.

Have a nice day!

Computer Science and engineering are not losing value. International Business is also a good idea.

You are in a good field but don’t fall into the “programming” trap. A better focus is as a Software Engineering Project manager. Look into learning a second language. Chinese or Russian. I would also focus on software security. That’s an industry that has great potential.

Also. See what internships are offered. Just being a gofer will help in giving you hard experience in seeing how s~~~ gets done.

Go to college but be f~~~ing sure you do not get hooked up with a goddamn special snowflake co-ed. Focus on your learning. This is your chance, don’t let pussy distract you.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

[Spank The MisandristsParticipant 2308]

Don’t focus on the degree! Focus on the skills.

[chirParticipant]

Spank The Misandrists wrote:

Don’t focus on the degree! Focus on the skills.

I agree.
However, despite the expense, a masters in CS opens doors. Internships gather contacts and let you network.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

[Foxtrot November GolfParticipant 28]

@hitman Thank you for your response. I certainly haven’t crossed government work off the list. Is there any additional insight you could offer on the two year degree and test into career idea?

@code Bunker (AKA “Stealthy MGTOW”) Thank you for your response. Drinking up knowledge is certainly the plan, especially since I have little to no social distractions these days. Do you have any recommendations for starting languages and books? As of today, I’m spending time this summer learning C through alison.com and codeblocks. I also have a version windows visual basic 2013 that college students can get for free through some microsoft site. I haven’t touched visual basic for a couple of years, though. I’ve heard demand for Ruby programmers is high, however I wouldn’t be shocked if that means it’s challenging enough that I’d need to learn a few different programming languages first.

@chir Thank you for your response. It’s good to hear computer science and engineering haven’t been losing value. Some stories of people with those degrees walking into their first job/interview and being useless really had me worried. It’s also nice to hear plan C, international business, isn’t a bad idea either. My friend is getting a degree in entrepreneurship; any idea if that has taken a dive in real world value? I think working with him would be cool, however, we don’t have a lot of ideas yet because the idea recently came up.

Could you describe more details about the programming “trap?” Do you have any more input on the path to becoming a Software Engineering Project manager?

And since you mentioned it, I definitely want to learn foreign languages. I’m pursuing a concentration at my school where I learn a good bit of one language (in this case German), and learn some of the two other languages offered by my college (French and Spanish). Another college nearby offers more languages, so I’m looking into taking summer language classes with them.

And problems with the local females hasn’t came up yet. I know one female friend liked me, but A) she’s catholic, B) she would always be sure to mention how she’s leading on two guys from home when I was around, and C) I have a rule: don’t date females in my local friend group, especially when I’m the newest addition… or in general; the females around here are REAL goddamn pretty, but a lot of them are boring as hell and/or mean.

One last question to anyone who might know: My school recently began offering software engineering as a degree. What are the differences between software engineering and computer science? I know it might be a stupid question to some, but I’m new to this and my only experience is a year of a highschool programming class. I also came back from training too late to get a computer class this most recent semester.

Thank you all for your time and have a nice day!

[chirParticipant]

Programming “trap”.
Most companies have bought into the “outsource actual coding”. They feel that programming is just drudgery work that can be outsourced to china or India. So where you need to focus is on being a Software engineer / Project manager. Basically you take in the s~~~ code from the outsourcing and polish the turd until it gleams. Having language and business skills can help you more efficiently communicate with the outsourcing companies.

However the cutting edge technology is in artificial intelligence. We are on the cusp of AI being able to write programming code which you can manage as a software engineer.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

[xlrsnbrgParticipant 1786]

With CS, similar to most engineering degrees, you need to learn the fundamentals of a lot of sub-fields and you need to study in depth one or two. The latter depends on what you like.

Programming is essential. There are a lot of languages in use these days, so it’s a bit hard to choose. IMHO you need the following:

* Be proficient in at least 2 languages. Be able to answer tough interview questions; see http://www.geeksforgeeks.org for what to expect in CS interviews. But be aware that that site focuses on programmers, not engineers.
* Focus on languages that are useful nowadays: Java, C++, C, Python, Ruby, JavaScript, SQL. Picky several, study them at least at beginner level.
* Get good at reading other people’s code.
* Learn about coding styles. Understand the “whys”, not just the “hows”, and apply them to your code religiously. Excellent guides: https://github.com/google/styleguide https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Developer_guide/Coding_Style https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/CodingStyle
* Get good at learning a new language quickly.

As the others have said, don’t focus on programming; programmers are replaceable, engineers who know how to design systems and/or manage projects are not. You should master programming nonetheless.

Aside from that, you should learn the fundamentals of a lot of fields, such as algorithms, databases, networks, operating systems, computer architecture. Some security, AI, embedded, middleware, scalability. The classes should take care of some of that. But be careful to:
1. Understand how computer systems work. Classes should cover it.
2. Understand why systems are designed to work like that. Some classes lack a bit here, you might have to do extra reading.
3. Learn how to verify/measure/evaluate systems and define objectively if/how well they work. Some classes lack a bit here too.
4. Learn how to troubleshoot/diagnose problems. You won’t learn much of this in class, but you might in homework/projects.
5. Be able to propose alternative designs and compare them from the point of view of performance, scalability, security, development effort, maintenance effort, user experience. Most classes don’t cover these in depth. Hit the books. This is an essential skill for an engineer.
6. Don’t expect to remember everything. But know the basics and where to find the details. That is not Google, it is, for example, the official language spec or documentation, or a specific technical book.
7. Have fun.

I recommend also looking into certain topics that might not be discussed at all in school, such as:
* Design patterns and anti-patterns. Objective criticism on software that sucks, and understanding why. The Unix philosophy. http://harmful.cat-v.org
* Time management. Many CS students become night owls, don’t do it or you will lose your health. I find this little book useful: “Slack: Getting Past Burnout, Busywork, and the Myth of Total Efficiency”.

Good luck.

A man shouldn't make his life's objective to be on the side of the majority, but to avoid finding himself in the ranks of the insane. (Marcus Aurelius)

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