Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › To fool the fools? Religion 2.0.
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Ohno 3 years, 9 months ago.
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And here, gentlemen, we have a wonderful example of someone speaking nonsense in a religious discussion. Anonymousyam, either an omnipotent God exists or He doesn’t. Even if there is a higher power other than God, you still have to deal with it. Either way, better to be on the safe side. That is the point of Pascal’s wager. The Pastafarianism is a “religion” made by people to mock religion. They can mock it all they want, but they still face the same odds as everyone else. Honestly, I doubt that atheists will be slapping themselves on the back saying, “oh, goodie! We were right about there being no God, and now we simply exist in nothingness eternally!” or something along those lines. I honestly will be rather disappointed, but it is certainly worth the possibility of my God existing, as I believe He does. Once you’ve dealt with Pascal’s wager, then you can begin seeking God. If anyone reaches that point, feel free to message me, and I’ll be happy to discuss seriously.
Just because believing in god is safer because the punishment for not believing in god is worse still is not a logical argument. Pastafarianism is just using the claims of the religious against them. Since it is impossible to prove any of the claims. I am not gonna believe in this god just because the punishment for not believing is worse. Especially when a all powerful and loving god lets most of his creation burn in hell for eternity.
Just an east coast asshole who likes to curse, If you get offended by words like fuck, cunt, shit, piss, bitch or any racial slurs then you just scroll down.
I’ve had a few experiences that made me go, “oh, wow. That was totally a God thing”, but like I said before, often, you have to be seeking God for something to happen.
I once got upwards of $1,300 that I really needed two minutes after my mom and I prayed about it.
I’ve heard the testimonies of people who should be dead or in prison now, but because of God, they have completely new lives. I know God exists because I’ve seen Him working in my life and the lives of people around me.
Just a misogynist virgin hiding away in his mother's basement. Nothing to see here...
Also how am i speaking nonsense in the conversation when religion is already nonsense? i am just adding a religious claim saying you cannot disprove the flying spaghetti monster existing because he exists outside of time and space.
Just an east coast asshole who likes to curse, If you get offended by words like fuck, cunt, shit, piss, bitch or any racial slurs then you just scroll down.
Ah, but you can no more objectively prove God fake than I can prove Him true.
It is impossible to prove a null hypothesis or universal negative, however if God does exist where is the evidence?
Pascal’s wager certainly doesn’t measure which side is right. It only measures which side is smartest and most capable of reasoning out the most beneficial decision. Two out of two options, I win. One out of two options, you win. I have a 100% chance of coming out on top in this bet. You have only a 50% chance.
Check your odds carefully.
Let’s delve a little deeper into the probabilities of this Pascal’s wager. Is it truly a 50 / 50 split between either God existing or not?
Because if there is a God, and the ONE true religion IS correct, then according to most religions, GOD will be pretty p~~~ed off if you chose the wrong one.
So now your ODDS are more like:
50% Atheism
10% Buddhism
10% Christian
10% Islam
10% Jewish
10% Other (Morman / Scientology whatever)The question is, do you have the reasoning to see that according to Pascal’s wager, atheism is the most self-destructive choice a human being can make?
Really? Circumcision / blowing yourself up for 72 virgins / refusing blood transfusions in order to survive / denying your darker side natural justice, all for the promise of a questionable future benefit.
So now even a religious person only has a 10% chance of getting it right and being “rewarded”. The cost of having to forego your true innate nature will have been fully spent, for there is and must be a cost otherwise there would be no issue.
I want to live well, be free, I will obey God and will do what he tells me, but until he reveals himself I am left to survive on my own, and I plan to do what is needed.
When the war cemeteries are half full of the corpses of dead conscripted women, only then will women have earned the right to speak of equality. Sidecar “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.” - Bob Dylan
Just because believing in god is safer because the punishment for not believing in god is worse still is not a logical argument. Pastafarianism is just using the claims of the religious against them. Since it is impossible to prove any of the claims. I am not gonna believe in this god just because the punishment for not believing is worse. Especially when a all powerful and loving god lets most of his creation burn in hell for eternity.
That’s like saying, “Just because I might go to jail if I don’t fill out my tax forms doesn’t mean that I should fill them out.” Sure, it might not be right to be forced to pay that much money to the government, but you can’t stop it from happening. The only problem is, once you’re dead, there’s no paying that debt.
An all powerful and loving God created creatures with intelligence and free will, because He wanted to. They, by their own choice, screwed up His creation. What else do they deserve? He has given humans the opportunity to be saved. If they want to turn their backs on Him after He sent His Son to die for them, what else should He do but follow through with the set punishment for their crimes?
Just a misogynist virgin hiding away in his mother's basement. Nothing to see here...
Anonymous3This discussion of religion is missing a few points. The first is that a “religious” behavior is not exclusive of religions, in fact I think most people today have a religious understanding of science. And every time I say this I get furious comments like I committed some kind of sin…
But really, most people beleive in scientific things they have no good reason to beleive, because mostly its beyond their understanding.Just because believing in god is safer because the punishment for not believing in god is worse still is not a logical argument. Pastafarianism is just using the claims of the religious against them. Since it is impossible to prove any of the claims. I am not gonna believe in this god just because the punishment for not believing is worse. Especially when a all powerful and loving god lets most of his creation burn in hell for eternity.
That’s like saying, “Just because I might go to jail if I don’t fill out my tax forms doesn’t mean that I should fill them out.” Sure, it might not be right to be forced to pay that much money to the government, but you can’t stop it from happening. The only problem is, once you’re dead, there’s no paying that debt.
An all powerful and loving God created creatures with intelligence and free will, because He wanted to. They, by their own choice, screwed up His creation. What else do they deserve? He has given humans the opportunity to be saved. If they want to turn their backs on Him after He sent His Son to die for them, what else should He do but follow through with the set punishment for their crimes?
A invisible god who is supposedly perfect creates imperfection by letting his humans get tempted by a talking snake that tells them to eat some magical fruit. After eating the fruit god lets his humanity get so evil he regrets it and floods the earth even thou he claims to be all knowing. Then century’s later he sends his son to be tortured on a piece of wood then rises him up 3 days later even thou he could have found another way to forgive mankind if he was all powerful. And if he was all loving he would not send most of his creation to eternal punishment be logical here man.
Just an east coast asshole who likes to curse, If you get offended by words like fuck, cunt, shit, piss, bitch or any racial slurs then you just scroll down.
Is it ethically wrong to deceive if reasoning fails?
Yes, deceit is always wrong; no matter how important the cause.
That said, deceiving the sheeple is all too easy, and it is no wonder that so many politicians get elected by doing it.Abe Lincoln had a famous quote about fooling the people… Pay attention, he knew all about human nature. Pay attention.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?
A invisible god who is supposedly perfect creates imperfection by letting his humans get tempted by a talking snake that tells them to eat some magical fruit. After eating the fruit god lets his humanity get so evil he regrets it and floods the earth even thou he claims to be all knowing. Then century’s later he sends his son to be tortured on a piece of wood then rises him up 3 days later even thou he could have found another way to forgive mankind if he was all powerful. And if he was all loving he would not send most of his creation to eternal punishment be logical here man.
Let’s address your points one at a time, shall we?
A invisible god who is supposedly perfect creates imperfection by letting his humans get tempted by a talking snake that tells them to eat some magical fruit.
God did not create imperfection, but He did create free will, which He knew could be used for evil. One would assume that, being all-knowing, He felt that the results would be worth it. Either way, arguing that God shouldn’t have created freewill seems rather lame to me.
After eating the fruit god lets his humanity get so evil he regrets it and floods the earth even thou he claims to be all knowing.
Trying to use an obvious anthropomorphism doesn’t really work in this case. The Bible consistently describes a supernatural God who is beyond our understanding in terms we can comprehend.
Then century’s later he sends his son to be tortured on a piece of wood then rises him up 3 days later even thou he could have found another way to forgive mankind if he was all powerful.
I’m sure He could have found another way, but God does everything for a reason. He could have overridden our free will and removed all evil from every human, but He obviously chose not to, or we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. He obviously values human free will. God loves humanity because He created us in His image. An artist loves his masterpiece because of its beauty and complexity. A father loves his son because his son looks like him. These are anthropomorphisms of how God loves humanity.
And if he was all loving he would not send most of his creation to eternal punishment be logical here man.
God is loving, but He is also just, and He designed consequences for evil people. When people choose to be evil, they get what they deserve in the end.
God cannot allow evil in Heaven because if He did, it wouldn’t be heaven anymore. Each person must choose to turn to God to eventually be cleansed of his sin of his own accord.
Just a misogynist virgin hiding away in his mother's basement. Nothing to see here...
A invisible god who is supposedly perfect creates imperfection by letting his humans get tempted by a talking snake that tells them to eat some magical fruit. After eating the fruit god lets his humanity get so evil he regrets it and floods the earth even thou he claims to be all knowing. Then century’s later he sends his son to be tortured on a piece of wood then rises him up 3 days later even thou he could have found another way to forgive mankind if he was all powerful. And if he was all loving he would not send most of his creation to eternal punishment be logical here man.
Let’s address your points one at a time, shall we?
A invisible god who is supposedly perfect creates imperfection by letting his humans get tempted by a talking snake that tells them to eat some magical fruit.
God did not create imperfection, but He did create free will, which He knew could be used for evil. One would assume that, being all-knowing, He felt that the results would be worth it. Either way, arguing that God shouldn’t have created freewill seems rather lame to me.
After eating the fruit god lets his humanity get so evil he regrets it and floods the earth even thou he claims to be all knowing.
Trying to use an obvious anthropomorphism doesn’t really work in this case. The Bible consistently describes a supernatural God who is beyond our understanding in terms we can comprehend.
Then century’s later he sends his son to be tortured on a piece of wood then rises him up 3 days later even thou he could have found another way to forgive mankind if he was all powerful.
I’m sure He could have found another way, but God does everything for a reason. He could have overridden our free will and removed all evil from every human, but He obviously chose not to, or we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. He obviously values human free will. God loves humanity because He created us in His image. An artist loves his masterpiece because of its beauty and complexity. A father loves his son because his son looks like him. These are anthropomorphisms of how God loves humanity.
And if he was all loving he would not send most of his creation to eternal punishment be logical here man.
God is loving, but He is also just, and He designed consequences for evil people. When people choose to be evil, they get what they deserve in the end.
God cannot allow evil in Heaven because if He did, it wouldn’t be heaven anymore. Each person must choose to turn to God to eventually be cleansed of his sin of his own accord.
God could have found a way to prevent evil but not taking away our free will if he is powerful. And he could have created a world were satan does not exist but he created it anyway.
The only reason you can justify eternal torment for the finite crimes people commit is to use the term free will. Since it makes god look less evil since it is the humans choice but it appears that your god does not even give free will especially the verses he takes it away like in the case of pharaoh where god hardens his heart.
http://www.askanatheist.org/articles/freewillandlackofevidenceforgod.htmlWhen really thought about your world view makes no sense. You cannot just say that god works in mysterious ways when he institutes a illogical system to fulfill the story book.
Just an east coast asshole who likes to curse, If you get offended by words like fuck, cunt, shit, piss, bitch or any racial slurs then you just scroll down.
I have read a lot on the topic. And heard out a lot of people on each side best I could. And the answer is simple to me.
They don’t agree on what God is.
They don’t agree on what God wants.
They don’t agree on what God’s name even is.Hard core antitheists can’t prove a negative because logic doesn’t work that way. Period.
So my opinion on if God exists or not is simple. It doesn’t matter because you all know what part of the body options are like.
Do I know if God exists or not ? That’s easy.
I don’t know.
But as to MGTOW, it really doesn’t matter.
It doesn’t change the fact that marriage today fails the most basic Risk/Benefit Analysis.
It doesn’t change the fact that divorce laws put men at a horrible economic risk.
It doesn’t change the fact that it puts fathers at risk of ruin, jail and separation from their children.
It doesn’t chance the fact that our laws condone or reward paternity fraud.
Since no reasonable person expects God to work some miracle and deal with all these problems for us, we have to deal with it ourselves.
But I am not going to fall for being pitted against Atheists or Christians or anyone else. I don’t play with race cards or religion cards because I don’t play that game.
Frank V.
It doesn’t change the fact that divorce laws put men at a horrible economic risk.
It doesn’t change the fact that it puts fathers at risk of ruin, jail and separation from their children.
It doesn’t chance the fact that our laws condone or reward paternity fraud.
That is true that it does change the fact. But atheism justifies woman’s behavior. if there is no God, then the brutality that women and the government force on men is justified based on survival of the fittest i.e. godless evolution. It is science!!!
Also, if one is agnostic about God, then one is forced by reason to be agnostic about ethics and morality. Of course you are in good company i.e. Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Imperial Japan. All that is left of agnosticism is pure force.
If there is no God in Heaven, then you can do whatever the hell you want on earth because you were born that way!!!
Consequently, successful psychopaths and sociopaths are the highest form of humanity….I definitely avoid talking about my personal beliefs regarding atheism and religion. Not because I don’t like hearing about the subject or learning about the subject, but because very personal topics such as this end up being total flame wars in the end if they’re not already.
To me, trying to convince another person of your view regarding religion/atheism is like trying to convince a blue piller to come over to our side, take the red pill, and be ok the next day.
Sometimes you’ll get a hit, but more than 99% of the time, it’ll be like you’re talking to a wall endlessly.
This is why I rarely end up talking about this subject. Even outside of the internet.
Men age like fine wine. Women age like milk. "One hundred women are not worth a single testicle." -Confucius
It doesn’t change the fact that divorce laws put men at a horrible economic risk.
It doesn’t change the fact that it puts fathers at risk of ruin, jail and separation from their children.
It doesn’t chance the fact that our laws condone or reward paternity fraud.
That is true that it does change the fact. But atheism justifies woman’s behavior. if there is no God, then the brutality that women and the government force on men is justified based on survival of the fittest i.e. godless evolution. It is science!!!
Also, if one is agnostic about God, then one is forced by reason to be agnostic about ethics and morality. Of course you are in good company i.e. Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Imperial Japan. All that is left of agnosticism is pure force.
If there is no God in Heaven, then you can do whatever the hell you want on earth because you were born that way!!!
Consequently, successful psychopaths and sociopaths are the highest form of humanity….Atheism doesn’t “justify” anything. It is just asserting God doesn’t exist or is the rejection of claims about God’s existence in general.
Agnosticism doesn’t “justify” anything. It is admitting one doesn’t know if God exists.
Hitler and the Nazis where not Atheists. In fact, Atheists where banned from joining the SS. Agnostics where seen as being almost the same as atheists. Imperial Japan was not atheistic but had Shinto and Buddhism.
Bringing up those names is an attempt at smearing others.
If you want to play a game of smearing me with Pol Pot then I can just as easily smear you back with your religion’s own tyrants. But that game is called “collective guilt”, something Pol Pot and the others you named embraced.
Smearing and Collective Guilt.
Playing these kind of games does nothing to deal with the problems at hand. It is crude, inflammatory and divisive.
Or, is that the point ?
It would not be the first time such a tactic was used.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule
I’m too old to fall for this cheap trick being used to divide us against each other, to pit me against my Believer and Atheist MGTOW brothers.
Don’t you guys fall for it too.
Frank V.
Of course you are in good company i.e. Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Imperial Japan. All that is left of agnosticism is pure force.
There is so much wrong with that single sentence that it would take several posts to explain them all.
There are opinions and then there are facts, Goodkid. You’re allowed your own opinions. You’re not allowed your own facts.
Please don’t discuss religion, agnosticism, or atheism here until you’ve further educated yourself. This isn’t YouTube, 4chan, Reddit, or some other internet fora where people can show off their s~~~ tier educations without being called on it. You’re completely wrong and, sadly, you don’t even know it yet.
Before you post something about your “feelings” being hurt, you need to remember something. We’re all men here, we all speak the truth to each other, and you’ve just been given a nice chunk of it. Take advantage of that gift.
And, before someone asks, I don’t see myself as religious, agnostic, or atheistic. However, I will not allow anyone to insult or belittle any brother here for being religious, agnostic, or atheistic. At the very least we can grant each other freedom of conscience.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
Gentlemen, you will agree that truelly intelligent individuals will always (before genetic manipulations) be a minority. Thats just how the human race is. There are the dumb, the mediocre and the smart minority (which would ofcourse be us!).
As has been pointed out by modern atheism, morality doesnt require religion and can be tought and explained and even proven by enlightened philosophy.
“Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people.”
― SocratesYou pretty much only wrote about people…over 90% of your text talks about people of how dumb they are, except for the small minorty including you.
You think you are of the smart minority?
Well, thats what most people think too.Yeah. Hey pvtmgtow, have you ever had any miraculous or mystical experiences that convinced you? Maybe if I saw a real miracle I would feel differently.
pvtmgtow is just doing the work of an evangelist as he is supposed to. I can tell you out of my own experience that this is an uncomfortable task and unpaid work. And you get treated as if you were an idiot by many. Dont you know what time it is?
So you say if someone came and performs miracles like causing fire to come down from heaven you would start believing?
Revelation 13:
The Beast out of the Earth
11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e] That number is 666.
I’m pretty sure I could tell an antichrist miracle from a legitimate miracle. I’m not an idiot.
This has nothing to do with intelligence…and no, you arent able to tell just like that even if you are very intelligent. Dont think so?
Then how about these miracles?
…If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
How does that sound to you?
How does that sound to you?
Like bulls~~~.
However, if the belief give you comfort somehow, go on believing.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
Like bulls~~~.
However, if the belief give you comfort somehow, go on believing.
I keep on believing with or without your permission, but when the bible begins to not fulfill anymore I will quit believing in it.
So far everything fulfilled and there is no reason for me to have doubts.- AuthorPosts
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