Starting to feel the 'win'…despite a bit of outrage.

[MarathonManParticipant 77]

Years of dysfunction, months of genuine separation, lots of patiently waiting for amicable settlement ideas to avoid the lawyer based ass-raping of us both and our children and there *may* have been a slight breakthrough:

A friend of mine has new puppies – super-cute sheepadoodles (Old English Sheepdog/Poodle cross), and she was happy to let my kids help out a bit with some puppy training. It seemed like a good enough reason to introduce kids to this woman (who so far is a good non-financially parasitic f~~~-buddy and decent intellectual companion). Kids have enjoyed catching up with dogs and seem completely non-plussed about dads current friend.

Ex (ok – “soon-to-be-ex”) wife however FREAKED at hearing that kids had met a friend of mine. Clearly the terror of being replaced (not that anyone is looking at replacing her as a mother) was a major deal. After some discussion ex pulled kids in early this weekend… I didnt really mind, I’d had them for a while and to be honest I couldn’t be bothered to maintain the rage – it was so clear that her rage had no rational direction whatsoever and would soon blow over and its time for her to learn – she does not control the kids lives when they are with me!

Following day I got a call from ex’s work saying she’d just collapsed and been rushed to hospital…. I have no sense of glee over anyone’s illness or misfortune, but I was called upon to provide basic support. I called the kids and it turns out my 10 yr old had been left at home ALONE for the entire day while ex went to work. She was more prepared to leave my child at home alone than let her meet a friend of mine!

I picked up daughter, played a cool and responsible adult, fed pets and gave ex some basic supplies to keep her going in hospital. (Fortunately health situation although serious is quick and easy to resolve with no long term ramifications).

In picking up daughter from the house I got a chance to look around for the first time in months. It was TERRIBLE! Mess everywhere, piles of unopened mail, mountains of unattended laundry, stacks of stuff that just needs tidying up. It was almost like a discovery channel documentary on ‘hoarders’ or ‘toxic tenants’. After a few questions its clear that she has left my kids alone at home on a number of occasions over the last year while she’s worked night shifts etc etc.

I now have photographic evidence and calendar dates documented of her parental neglect. When she’s better and out of hospital again we can commence our settlement discussion but with me in a position where I know if it all breaks down she will NOT have any kind of case to suggest she should get majority custody.

I’m not keen to call in social services – but its a nice weapon to have in the back pocket if it all goes ballistic!

[MeshakParticipant 280]

Let me share my divorce negotiation and settlement adventure.

Once we decided, I stated that there really wasn’t a whole lot that I wanted. I told her to leave me a bed, my dresser and my old chair, which she had been trying to throw away for years. I also told her that I had no interest in spending “our” money on lawyers. I planted the seed and asked if she would like for both of us to use our family lawyer (female, but very wise). She contacted her. We drew up our agreement in writing (who got what) and submitted it. The lawyer said that while her husband does divorce, she had never heard of a couple coming in and presenting a completed agreement. Cost: 1500.00 in 2013. We split the cost.

After we agreed, we were having a conversation in our home (I bought her half of the home), she asked how finances would be split up according to law. I explained using the example of one bucket for assets, one for liabilities. And she asked about our 403b’s. I told her that they go in the bucket. She began to cry. I asked her why? Her response; “It doesn’t seem fair. I have twice as much in my account.” I asked her; “How do you think you were able to build it up?” Yep, you got it, because my salary covered expenses. As she’s crying, she reveals her plan. “I thought I could do this and hang on until we retired. Then we could each go our own way. GAME OVER BUZZER goes off. It just doesn’t work that way.

So it’s the end of January, the lawyer has had everything since December and I’m not hearing anything. I call the lawyer and ask what the delay is. The plan was to complete this by the end of the month. They said my wife had not returned several calls.

I call the wife and ask WTF the delay is and she plays stupid. Told her to call the lawyer and that she hasn’t returned their calls. She says she can’t understand what my hurry is and is hurt. I told her to get her ass down there and sign the papers, I want to get on with my life.

Saw her a year later. She called and told me that the title to her car was mailed to me and could I meet her at DMV and sign it over. I did. She hugs me when it’s over, makes small talk.
I see that you’ve been cooking, going out and going places. Would you like to come over to my apartment for dinner sometime or go out to dinner. I like to go out too. (Looking at her, yes you are quite good at eating too.) I gave her the “not really” look and said goodbye.
Never……and I mean never……would I ever get closed to someone like her. My kids are in their 30’s and I don’t bash her, but I acknowledge her inappropriate behavior when they complain about it. 5 years and I haven’t spent more than 30 minutes in her presence. I love it.

Meshak

[OldschoolParticipant 2481]

As hard as it is at first, no contact seems to be the way to go. Ive been divorced for only one month now and I know my mood changes when she texts me. I cant wait for the day my daughter is 18 and I know longer need to communicate with my ex again.

Get a vasectomy.

[FrostByteParticipant 19005]

It’s really hard swapping kids back and forth and having to see her over and over. That was years a go for me but I got through it. Good job taking pictures and keeping logs. That’s how you beat a system rigged against you.

If you rescue a damsel in distress, all you will get is a distressed damsel.

[OldBillParticipant]

MarathonMan wrote:

I now have photographic evidence and calendar dates documented of her parental neglect. When she’s better and out of hospital again we can commence our settlement discussion but with me in a position where I know if it all breaks down she will NOT have any kind of case to suggest she should get majority custody.

You actually believe she won’t get majority custody? Think again.

The fact that she has a c~~~ will trump any evidence you present 93% of the time. For you to receive and, just as importantly, retain majority custody your ex would have to be in prison, be under arrest, overdose in front of the judge, or renounce her own claims.

You need to accept the fact that your children will be living with your ex-wife and that you will be able to do nothing about it. Accept that fact and begin planning accordingly.

Going forward, you need to set and enforce strict ground rules for when and why your ex can contact you. The most successful and least stressed divorced men I know follow variations on the same theme: You only contact me when the health and welfare of the children is directly involved. All other contact is to be made through my lawyer.

You then screen all calls, voice mails, emails, texts, and posted letters. The ones directly involving the children are answered or otherwise dealt with. The ones which aren’t about the children or which try to use the children as an excuse to contact you are handed over to your lawyer where they trigger a written reminder to your ex about the conditions under which she may contact you.

You need to remember that once the divorce is final the relationship is over and you need to remind the c~~~ of that fact too. You aren’t “friends”, you don’t “help out”, there are no “favors”, all of that s~~~ is over.

She chose to file for divorce or chose to drive you into filing. She chose to remove you from her life. It’s now incumbent on you to impose the consequences of that decision.

This divorce is not going as smoothly you want to believe and it will not go as smoothly as you want to believe. Be prepared because several figurative ass rapes are in your future.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[narwhalParticipant]

I agree with OldBill, as I don’t think a messy house and 10 year olds left alone is going to win you custody. It will take more than that. I wouldn’t even consider threatening her with that information as could very well encourage her to start ‘playing dirty’. She could very well feel justified in claiming domestic violence and trying to ruin you just to retain her kids…because she knows that’s where they belong.

If you feel like your kids are suffering, then continue collecting evidence, but don’t expect to be able to use it till the divorce is over and she has very little to fight you with.

Also, drop the f~~~ buddy or any kind of relations why you are still married. And do not bring the kids around other women like that. I’m not saying you are in the wrong, but it will cause the reaction you’ve witnessed and give her fuel to punish you. Wait till the divorce.

Ok. Then do it.

[OldBillParticipant]

narwhal wrote:

Also, drop the f~~~ buddy or any kind of relations why you are still married. And do not bring the kids around other women like that. I’m not saying you are in the wrong, but it will cause the reaction you’ve witnessed and give her fuel to punish you. Wait till the divorce.

Very sage advice and advice you should follow, MarathonMan.

I winced when you described the woman with the puppies as someone who “…so far is a good non-financially parasitic f~~~-buddy and decent intellectual companion.”

You’re not even divorced yet and you’re already f~~~ing another woman? Are you daft? You two were preparing for a knife fight and you just handed her an Uzi.

Do you seriously believe your wife won’t find out? Or doesn’t know already? She flipped when she heard the kids met this woman and then almost immediately had a “medical emergency”. Don’t you think the two events are linked? Do you seriously believe she won’t use it in court? Do you seriously believe a messy house and her leaving the kids unattended will trump your actual adultery? Do you seriously believe she isn’t going to claim the news of your adultery didn’t cause her medical issues?

Your penis got you into a disastrous marriage and now your penis is going to lose your divorce for you. Congratulations.

While I’m not a celibate MGTOW and don’t believe celibacy should automatically be anyone’s goal in MGTOW, you should seriously think about keeping it zipped until the ink in her signature on the final decree is dry.

This is the fight of your life. It’s time to get serious.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Anonymous 43]

omfg get rid of the girlfriend today! Yesterday, last month, never met is best

do not f~~~ up your divorce procedings that way.

Women can have 20 f~~~ buddies and be a cum dribbling whore and still end up with kids. Men having a friend with t~~~….criminal.

Get rid of one woman completely before taking up with another. Woman can show up to court with three dicks stuffed in her and still beat your ass easily, because the system is so f~~~ing rigged against men.

This was not a medical emergency, but rather exhibit A for the c~~~ to show emotional abuse and distress, shock and dismay at your infidelity while she produces reams of fake emails showing how she is trying to put the marriage back together.

Printed email, fake or not is evidence that will rape you. YOu broke into her house and deliberately made a mess. Jebus on the cross, you have proof that you were in the house, doesn’t matter what you were doing there.

I went to the old house because my kids were home alone and scared, I was parked in the driveway and shot video of the entire time I was there. The judge smacked me for being there at all without notifying the c~~~ and this was proof that I was trying to abduct the kids, and was smacked with a 1000 yard order of bulls~~~ against going near the old house. It didn’t matter that we were out side it didn’t matter that the kids said they were scared being there by them selves at age 12 and 8 below the age limits for being alone., what mattered was I was there and I was the criminal.

any photographic evidence you think you are clever to posess shows that you are stalking her. No pictures, no internet searches stay the f~~~ away. Be surprised if she has a car, YOU want no knowledge of how she lives until kids start complaining have injuries. anything less than a kid in the er with a sucking chest wound you need to stay the f~~~ away or it will be turned against you.

you are thinkning rationally, and in the real world, rational thought mostly works. This is the legal world, totally upside down and backwards and you the man are always the criminal. This is the major reason why I am over 1000 miles from the c~~~. So I don’t do anything rational and stupid, and she cant do any thing stupid.

here is what you need to do. This is what I do.

Stay the f~~~ away from women.
keep a journal and receipts
use a po box in another town
move to the other side of the time zone
stay away from the c~~~
special email address for her only
less than 10 words in any communication with her, preferably one word. NO
get off the emergency notification list except for kids school. YOU want to be 3 0r 4 on the list.
do not visit the c~~~ in the hospitql ever!!!!!!!!!! ever ever ever!
never be alone with the c~~~, public places with cameras, like mcd.
you are going to war for your very survival…lol you handed the c~~~ an Uzi…yeah…ya did. an uzi attached to a f~~~ing Patton tank she is gonna ram a 105 mm APCR right up yer bungus for this. and if she doesn’t, be happy that she or her lawyer are too stupid to notice an obvious f~~~ up. YOu will never be that lucky again.

This is war, treat this as such.

[MarathonManParticipant 77]

Interesting perspectives there. I guess I’m far more optimistic than most of you guys!

A couple of things that I can address:

You actually believe she won’t get majority custody? Think again

Yes I do – having spoken with a lawyer a while back I was told in that in this juristiction [Qld Australia], kids custody is almost always given 50/50 unless there is a very compelling reason otherwise. Since there is (and will be) no evidence of criminal activity, drug or physical abuse from either parent, unless one of us decides to concede ground, 50/50 is the way the court will fall. (I’d be really curious to hear where all you guys are. Clearly court decisions vary from place to place, it’d be nice to get a sense of what kind of decisions happen in various different places wouldnt it?)

Furthermore, back when things started to fall apart the first time (a few years ago), I covertly infiltrated a discussion forum to and was party to a conversation where my wife confirmed this was the case and despite trying to find a way with a lawyer, discussions of any repartnering on either side were not considered relevant to the issue of child custody. She was resigned to the fact that 50/50 is absolutely the way it would (and probably should) go. The only reason she was intrigued about getting more than 50/50 custody was following the discussion from the gaggle of feminazi witches in the group they knew greater custody = greater claim in asset division. She knows she couldnt cope with majority custody – her shift work patterns make that an utter impossibility. It give me great encouragement to know that not only has the legal advice she received aligned very closely to the legal advice I received, but also that I know she has zero available funds for any protracted legal battle.

It seems obvious that some of you guys have had a really rough trot, but I’m still hoping that we can get reach mutual agreement over property settlement and keep our legal costs to <$5k instead of paying tens of thousands for lawyers to argue it all out when we know more or less what conclusions they’d reach anyway.

This was not a medical emergency

Wow – that is cynical. Actually in this case the medical details are legit. I’m not going to overshare the finer points and how I know they are genuine, but it was a relatively common but serious condition that needed dealing with. She was lucky she was very close to an emergency ward at the time. (And there’s no way any level of stress, shock or emotional state would be any kid of contributing factor in this case)

I do think that once we get everything settled it will be possible to seriously pull back on contact with ex, but for now I’m playing a long game. My kids are witnessing everything that goes on. I am getting good at being the decent, calm, responsible parent. They see that, its not unnoticed. Karma will serve me well.

[FrostByteParticipant 19005]

OldBill wrote:

ou actually believe she won’t get majority custody? Think again.

Don’t give up hope.
It depends on the State or Country.
I got 100% custody and child support from my ex wife for 11 years.
Do your do your homework, and fight like a pitbull.

narwhal wrote:

Also, drop the f~~~ buddy or any kind of relations why you are still married. And do not bring the kids around other women like that. I’m not saying you are in the wrong, but it will cause the reaction you’ve witnessed and give her fuel to punish you. Wait till the divorce.

Agreed tread carefully you are in field of landmines

If you rescue a damsel in distress, all you will get is a distressed damsel.

[OldBillParticipant]

MarathonMan wrote:

Yes I do – having spoken with a lawyer a while back I was told in that in this juristiction [Qld Australia], kids custody is almost always given 50/50…

50/50 is not majority custody, it’s shared custody. You specified majority custody.

FrostByte got majority custody. He’s one of the seven percent.

(I’d be really curious to hear where all you guys are. Clearly court decisions vary from place to place, it’d be nice to get a sense of what kind of decisions happen in various different places wouldnt it?)

Go to realworlddivorce DOT com It covers divorce in the US, Canada, most of the Anglosphere, and elsewhere.

… I covertly infiltrated a discussion forum…

Been spying on her for that long, huh? What makes you so sure she hasn’t been spying on you for that long too?

Wow – that is cynical.

Not cynical, realistic. Stay here long enough and you’ll read accounts of the rivers of s~~~ other men are forced to wade through during their divorces.

Whether the medical emergency was real or not, you better be prepared when she uses it as a weapon in court because she will use it.

I do think that once we get everything settled it will be possible to seriously pull back on contact with ex, but for now I’m playing a long game.

If you were playing the long game, you wouldn’t be f~~~ing one woman while still married to another. That isn’t a “moral” issue. It’s a “sabotaging your own divorce” issue instead. Keep your penis under lock and key until you’re free and clear, otherwise you’re handing your wife more ammo to shoot at you.

When the professionals weigh into this, that is, when the lawyers enter the picture, you’re going to find out you’re not as prepared as you think you are and you’re not in as good a position as you think you are.

Don’t be surprised when a s~~~ tsunami comes ashore.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[MarathonManParticipant 77]

50/50 is not majority custody, it’s shared custody. You specified majority custody.

Agreed – I actually stated that SHE would not get majority custody. I dont think we’re disagreeing here?

Been spying on her for that long, huh?

Actually – no, That was a very brief episode where things were particularly ugly. Since then we’ve gotten closer to an operating truce (kind of Korean DMZ style ‘understanding’ where hostilities are *just* about hidden and mostly nobody gets hurt). She can spy on me all she wants, I have nothing to hide. Part of the freedom of my situation is I dont feel the need to keep anything secret any more ‘cos I’m not doing anything wrong morally, ethically or legally.

Anyway – all viewpoints are welcome. Its good to have a the cautionary warnings to keep me on my toes.

Edited to add: Just checked realworlddivorce and it doesnt cover Australia…. pity. I’d be really intrigued to hear some anecdotal stories to add to my understanding of the law and the small amount of professional advice I’ve received.

[OldBillParticipant]

MarathonMan wrote:

She can spy on me all she wants, I have nothing to hide.

Nothing to hide except the other woman you’re f~~~ing while you’re still married to her.

Keep whistling past the graveyard…

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[AttonParticipant]

S~~~ you might actually win this one.

A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!

[MarathonManParticipant 77]

Nothing to hide except the other woman you’re f~~~ing while you’re still married to her.

I ain’t hiding that. I’ve never made any attempt to conceal the fact that I’ve moved on and wont be dragged back to the plantation. Our separation has been long enough and its been made perfectly clear from both of us that we both know its dead and over. There’s debate over how to divide up the assets and liabilities to cause least damage to the kids, but the reasons our marriage still exists on paper are simply that logistical ones only.

Adultery (in Australia at least) has no legal ramifications and is irrelevant in divorce law.

[Anonymous 1]

Marathonman — I think you’re doing the right thing.

The US sounds seriously more f’d up than here, and many on this site have been seriously burnt. Default in Oz is 50:50 — but be wary of the wife going to court and making s~~~ up, as they’ll side with her. You’re the best judge of how she’s going to handle it (though it sounds like she’s losing the plot a little).

It doesn’t seem like you’re in an adversarial situation — in fact, it sounds much like mine.

(NSW); we’ve agreed amicably on a split down the middle for assets and custody. We’ve employed seperate lawyers, to make sure it is legally water-tight.

You can get an agreement signed off by the family court (consent order) to minimise any chance of blowback or legal arguments post-seperation. You can also do a binding financial agreement (I think without the family court stamp). I was advised the binding agreement can still be challenged, while the family-court stamped consent order was solid.

I’m expecting less than $7k fees in total, and that’s definitely worth it given the assets (house, super, etc) in play. Think of it as a percentage of what you’re negotiating, and its in the noise.

Almost at the end of the tunnel, waiting on sign-off of the agreement and financial settlement. Expect that in the next month or so.

You are correct that split of post-seperation income (alimony/child-support) is based on % of care. Depending on your two incomes, you may be up for some child support payments, too. These are usually seperate to the financial agreement; though I guess you could negotiate one against the other if you wanted.

[Anonymous 43]

Good luck Marathon Man. Sorry if it felt like I was jumping on you. My divorce was a life and death struggle. You seemed a little too at ease with your impending fight for my taste. This will be a life changing event. nothing will properly prepare you for what is coming, unless some who have gone thru it tell you.

I started out my divorce thinking it would go easy. Nope. Not even close.

God bless you Brother.

[Author]

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