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Wally 4 years ago.
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Ancientwisdom, you do realise that you are arguing science with mythology?
You are fallaciously framing the debate in a juxtaposition of – ‘ science OR a belief in God’: which is itself a false dichotomy. Actually its worse than that: you just ASSERT the concept of creation is “mythology”.
A more accurate description comes from the Pew Research Center, which reported in 2009 that 51 percent of scientists believe that God or some higher power exists“..
Over half of the population of the sample you refer to believes in a Creator.
I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details. – Albert Einstein
The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.” – Albert Einstein
Einstein himself didnt believe in a big bang. He believed in a creation; although he did not believe in a personal God. Nevertheless one of the most brilliant minds in science believed in creation.
Resident cynic.
More fun FACTS: revolutionary scientist’s who believed in God
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds.William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics.Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called “Mendelianism”.51% of scientists polled in 2009 believed in creation. Einstein, the greatest mind in science and who single handedly made the most contributions to science, believed in creation. Some of the most revolutionary scienticsts believe in creation. Science is still on the creationist side.
Resident cynic.
You are fallaciously framing the debate in a juxtaposition of – ‘ science OR a belief in God’: which is itself a false dichotomy. Actually its worse than that: you just ASSERT the concept of creation is “mythology”.
You’re sounding like William Lane Craig who uses a lot of word soup to make the illogical seem somewhat logical.
The concept of creation IS mythology, is it something else other than that? And why was the description of creation in the OT not more detailed and CORRECT?
.A more accurate description comes from the Pew Research Center, which reported in 2009 that 51 percent of scientists believe that God or some higher power exists“..
Over half of the population of the sample you refer to believes in a Creator..
51 percent of those people could be wrong, years ago most everyone thought disease was caused by sin, does that make it so?
.I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details. – Albert Einstein.
Somehow I think you misquoted Albert, he was more of an agnostic than anything, besides, even if he did believe, without proof, that doesn’t make it so.
You can't reason with unreasonable, there; women, figured out, there is nothing to reason.
You’re sounding like William Lane Craig who uses a lot of word soup to make the illogical seem somewhat logical.
Apparently you are unfamiliar with Philosophy. False dichotomies are a fallacy. But you even went a step further and asserted that creationism was a “mythology”.
Lovely.
51 percent of those people could be wrong,
These are precisely the same people that you chose to contrast “fact and mythology” with. These are YOUR chosen sample of wisdom, yet they side with creation.
Changing your argument?
Somehow I think you misquoted Albert, he was more of an agnosticthan anything,
The question at hand is: Creation by Design by an Intelligent Being OR some random accident, which ATHIESTS subscribe to. Einstein was NOT an athiest.
It is NOT: Whether we can personally know a creator.
Nice attempt to try and re-frame the discussion. Now back to the facts on hand.
Sorry to bust your bubble:
Einstein was not an atheist, explaining at one point: “I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal god is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”[1] According to Prince Hubertus, Einstein said, “In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.”
Resident cynic.
Do any of these people have proof?
Have any of them seen god?Yes? or No?
You can't reason with unreasonable, there; women, figured out, there is nothing to reason.
Do any of these people have proof?Have any of them seen god?
Yes? or No?This question exemplifies the simplicity with which you approach understanding of complex concepts.
Have you ever studied Philosphy or Science?
You DO realize that “science”, restricts itself to empirical data: that which is OBSERVABLE and logically deduces consequences via induction rather than deduction; or do you not?
Heres a synopsis:
Inductive reasoning is the opposite of deductive reasoning. Inductive reasoning makes broad generalizations from specific observations. “In inductive inference, we go from the specific to the general. We make many observations, discern a pattern, make a generalization, and infer an explanation or a theory,” Wassertheil-Smoller told Live Science. “In science there is a constant interplay between inductive inference (based on observations) and deductive inference (based on theory), until we get closer and closer to the ‘truth,’ which we can only approach but not ascertain with complete certainty.”
Inductive reasoning makes ASSUMPTIONS based on previous patterns. It is not some all inclusive “Fact” finding program. Furthermore, the vast majority of scientists believe in Creation by design, NOT some big bang theory.
The very evidence you are presenting for your argument is proving my conclusion.
Anything else?
Resident cynic.
Most scientists believe in climate change too and we know that’s a crock. Religion has proven to be a pox on humanity.
I agree with both of your statements. I dont believe in ‘religion’ which is a set of rules. I do believe in intelligent design by a creator, and that a relationship with said creator is not only possible, but the fundamentally driving force and purpose of our existence.
Resident cynic.
OK, I give up, there is an assumed god, sensible logic has failed and faith and mythology has won the day.
Your big word soup, circular logic, and shaming tactics and blind faith have steered me back onto the holy path.Santa is next on my re-belief list.
I am done, thank you for correcting my path.
(Note; wrote pre-coffee)
You can't reason with unreasonable, there; women, figured out, there is nothing to reason.
Most scientists believe in climate change too and we know that’s a crock. Religion has proven to be a pox on humanity.
I suppose you are going to suggest we’d be to Mars by now, as a re-believer I laugh and spit in your face, Ptooo.
And that we’d have advanced propulsion systems to make it cheaper and faster. (loud guffaws and lol’s x 1000)And we’d do what our dear father chillin’ out in space hadn’t figured out yet or even just got around to doing,…. how to re-grow lost limbs and give sight to the blind, and cure multitudes of debilitating and/or disgusting diseases and ailments!
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! ha!
You non-beliebers make me wet my pants and s~~~ me drawers with voluminous laughter!
lol!You can't reason with unreasonable, there; women, figured out, there is nothing to reason.
‘Peace be Upon Him’, abbreviated PBUH, is often stated upon any mention of the Prophet Muhammad, the founder and profit-making prophet, of Islam, by devout Muslims
I thought it stood for “P~~~ Be Upon Him?” That’s what I always say anyway after I say Mohammed(P~~~ Be Upon Him).
/Freedom of speech biatches
"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,
Either way, whatever you believe in or whether you are atheist/agnostic etc, if you are MGTOW and don’t respect another MGHOWs views (i.e take the p~~~ out of their religious views) then perhaps you have more in common with the bitches who love to divide and conquer than being a ‘brother’ to your fellow MGHOW.
I don't need pussy
The bible says ‘the son shall not bear the inequity (sin) of the father’ which is irreconcilable with the belief of ‘a sin’ passed down to subsequent generations.
What is the context of this verse – book and verse for reference? I believe this is taken out of context and equivocation is being used.
“Sin”, in theology, is not an ACT; it is a nature. Thats why the message is “we are all BORN sinners”. And the law wasnt given to a man as a standard he could attain, but rather a mirror to show him he never could. Hence why God sent His son to attain it for us, and be a sacrificial lamb for mankind. Because although God is loving He is also just, and requires justice.For e.g. http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/18-20.htm (depending on which of the 21+ different translations you want to go by the wording may differ).
Ezekiel 18:20.To each his own but my take on that whole notion of ‘Jesus’ died for our sins in opposition to what was taught to me wayyy back in the days when I used to go to Bible classes is as follows:
1) Adam and Eve made the mistake = They alone are responsible for it
2) No future generations can inherit the curse/punishment for the actions of someone who came before them. That would be unjust. God is ‘just’ according to Christianity and other religions.
3) If you believe God is all powerful, He could have lifted that curse/punishment without need to have his own ‘begotten son’ sacrificed to remove the curse/punishment that shouldn’t have been transferred to the sons/future generations anyway.As I say though to each his own way, not trying to be disrespectful.
I don't need pussy
Please understand I WANT to be able to respect the Muslim faith, but we continually see incidents of its members coming to the west and violently attacking people for expressing the very free speech and freedom to criticize, lampoon, and expose that our entire way of life is essentially based on.
Thus it is my firm belief that it is the duty of all who cherish our freedom of speech to insult Islam and the prophet mohammed(p~~~ be upon him).
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
I constantly see Muslim representatives on TV and elsewhere condemning violent acts, but I don’t see them actually DOING anything to prevent them. All talk and no action.
When I start seeing the community actually DO something en masse to protect free speech, even free speech that they hate, then I may change my views. Until then they are guilty of complicity by gross inaction or even subtle encouragement in my book.
I think pretty much all organized religion is bad, but No One Died Because of This Image.
"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,
Anonymous42I have nothing against Islam or any other so called faith. I also have no problem with a free speech ambush where ill doers are slaughtered in a hail of bullets. I like guns, and I think they like me.
Please understand I WANT to be able to respect the Muslim faith, but we continually see incidents of its members coming to the west and violently attacking people for expressing the very free speech and freedom to criticize, lampoon, and expose that our entire way of life is essentially based on.
Thus it is my firm belief that it is the duty of all who cherish our freedom of speech to insult Islam and the prophet mohammed(p~~~ be upon him).
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
I constantly see Muslim representatives on TV and elsewhere condemning violent acts, but I don’t see them actually DOING anything to prevent them. All talk and no action.
When I start seeing the community actually DO something en masse to protect free speech, even free speech that they hate, then I may change my views. Until then they are guilty of complicity by gross inaction or even subtle encouragement in my book.
I think pretty much all organized religion is bad, but No One Died Because of This Image.I get a lot of your points, I worked in the Middle East and got exposure to an ‘Islam’ that was very different to the b.s that we often see on the news so I see it differently. I guess its a lot like the KKK and I.R.A with their bombings back in the 80’s in UK not being representative of Christianity. Likewise, a lot of the bs we see is actually against Islamic teaching, a lot of people seem to speak against it in London (even wanting to go and fight against ISIS) yet the media (surprise, surprise don’t put those types on the TV but only want nut jobs like Dr Hook in the limelight).
That being said, I think a big part of MGTOW is moving away from institutes/organized religion (in the sense of Churches/Mosques etc) and thinking for yourself rather than having to be seen/wearing the tshirt/being part of a group/following a priest/rabbi/Imam’s interpretation when they are often ignorant themselves. I have no problem with religion practiced in a personal sense but its pretty divisive in its other forms and against what their own scriptures teach in many cases.
I don't need pussy
Very well put.
I feel the same way in not wanting to wear the t-shirt etc, but when it comes to freedom of speech / expression I am a confirmed zealot. Therefore when I see any of the groups attacking it, I feel the instinctive need to confront the attacker directly.
Nothing personal against Mohammed(p~~~ be upon him), although that whole part about marrying Aisha when she was 6 years old is pretty shady too, I don’t care how they rationalize it.
"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,
Ancientwisdom: There are plenty of revolutionary scientists who were religious. No argument there. I’d rank Isaac Newton most influential, not Einstein, but that’s my opinion. Newton was an anti-Trinitarian and had some rather unorthodox beliefs, but was a nominal Christian. As for scientists, the most highly ranked, ESPECIALLY in the physical sciences, are overwhelmingly irreligious. National Academy of Sciences: https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/sci_relig.htm — but what does that ‘prove’? Nothing. It’s just an argument from authority — a fallacy form as you probably realize. What would one expect? Most rocket scientists aren’t mystics (okay, Jack Parsons aside!). Similarly, if I go to a Bible College and take a survey of the seminarians, I’d expect a rather small number to be atheists or agnostics! As for Einstein, he didn’t believe in a personal God, immortality, or heaven or hell; he believed in Spinoza’s God. Read Einstein’s ‘What I believe’ from 1930 if the topics interests you.
Biggvs_Dickvs: Pizza be upon him, sez Mohahappy. I’ve learned to open my mind by following Mohahappy, and you can too! He’s a kinder, gentler prophet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enLrcpthdrk&list=RD2zQSalAB2fo to get started. And don’t be disparaging the prophet. He was VERY patient, he waited till Aisha was 9 to consummate the marriage entered to into 6 years of age, he was not some creepy pedophile! And the fine tradition continues today; in countries such as Yemen men can legally marry little girls. Most Westerners don’t understand what jihad means.
Seriously, A lot of persecutions occurred under Christendom before the Reformation (witches, Jews, heretics); Islam has not yet had a Reformation. Let’s hope it has one soon.
As for myself, I prefer ‘Pieces of shrapnel be upon him’.
Rebalanced: YES, I agree about organized religion, and would add I think it’s unhealthy to freedom when one religion utterly dominates. You can say Christianity dominates in the US, but at least there are many different denominations. And so, tolerance of other beliefs. There are also secular ‘religions’ or at least, cults of personality — for example, modern North Korea, the former Soviet Union, or Nazi Germany. When one religion and one political party dominates it often spells an unholy alliance between Church and State, and corruption.
I neglected to include a link to Einstein’s beliefs, ‘What I believe‘, an article from 1930, by Einstein, is interesting: http://www.unz.org/Pub/Forum-1930oct-00193
Megatoad69: The difference between religion and mythology is simple. Mythology is a religion no longer followed by anyone. Religion(s) are the ones they do follow. Thor’s followers are dead; monotheistic God’s followers are alive. That is why one is a religion and one is a myth. If you are a Muslim, the Koran is a Holy Book; to an infidel such as myself, it is a myth. The Book of the Dead was deemed Truth thousands of years ago; now, it is studied academically by Egyptologists. That’s my cynical answer. Modern religions also often provide systems of beliefs, organized hierarchical structures, etc, beyond just stories. Once a religion dies, has no temples and believers, the systems and traditions and rituals die with it.
Rebalanced: Yes, a significant minority of Muslims approved of 9/11 — 7% in this large Gallup poll: http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/02/27/poll-majority-muslims-worldwide-condemn-9-11/ — even this is a facsinating study in headline writing. I might have written the headline as ‘significant minority of muslims support suicide bombers’, but instead it is written ‘Majority condemn 9/11’. In contrast, I’d expect a minority of Irish Catholics supporting the IRA violence (probably 10% or less, based on Sinn Fein support), and I’d expect worldwide, almost no IRA support amongst Christians outside of Irish ex pats, but I’ve never seen a poll on that. The story on Muslim support for 9/11 is also interesting in that our existence is not central to the reason for attacking us. Al Qaeda could have attacked Canada, or any number of democracies. They attacked us because we meddled in the foreign affairs of other countries, such as providing vast sums of aid to Israel, invading Iraq in the First Gulf War, etc. It does cause one to ponder whether we should entangle ourselves in foreign aid beyond defense of our country. One in 14 Muslims supporting 9/11 is not a politically correct fact, so it’s ignored in mainstream media discussions.
Women in general are more hormonal, emotional, and less stable than men..to think that God will make you stay with the same woman for your entire life speaks volumes to me. It surely isn’t about your happiness in that doctrine!
In my opinion (the expression of which is protected by the US Constitution, or it is supposed to be), God is having a laugh on us. It is His little way of sticking a needle in us for falling for that “eat this apple” gag.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?
Frank one,
Im well aware that Einstein didnt believe in a personal God, I explicitly stated so in my post. My point was that scientists, and the GREATEST scientist in history, believed in creation by design. I also stated that in my posts.
Im well aware that none of us are going to change one anothers: deep, personal convictions on such matters. Were not teenagers in our formidable years. I respect anyones opinion in this thread; but I replied with my comments because some (not you) treat anyone who believes in a God as an idiot. Thats ridiculous.
I also dont believe in formalized “religion”. That is a man made construct. I do believe in God, and a personal God.
Im leaving this thread with this post, because this is a very personal topic that stirs emotion; myself included.
Thanks for your input.
Resident cynic.
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