Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › My thoughts on the so-called "sex wars" and the future.
This topic contains 16 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by 
Varun 3 years, 10 months ago.
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I wish to share some personal thoughts about the so-called “sex wars”, the possible (and very likely) future developments and some about the strategies we should use to deal with such developments.
Firstly, my premise is that MGTOW is simply recognising that the so-called “sex-war” had been totally lost by men when it comes at domestic relationships and even, at a lesser extent, sexual relationships. That’s basically, the true and deeper meaning of our usual wording “there’s nothing good for men within marriage (and within cohabitation)”.
MARRIAGE:
We are all aware what happens to a man who goes through a marriage: through time the woman takes more and more control over the man, especially through withholding sex and through a well established and well-known (check Esther Vilar’s “The Manipulated Man”) system of sex-based rewards and punishments. All men who had been married are, in example, perfectly aware how quickly blowjobs tend to become rare and rarer and even to totally disappear if we don’t behave exactly according her desires, and how much her desires tend to grow through years. The same can be said even for sexual intercourses and even for normal behaviors showing affection (in example during my marriage I reached the point that my wife refused a kiss when I returned home, and things like a massage on the back when I requested it – it was a systematic behavior, meant as punishment/reward, absolutely not random: it showed a precise pattern).
About 55-60% marriages end in divorces.
71% divorces are officially requested by women, about 8% by men, 21% are “consensual” but the truth is that about an half of the “consensual” divorces are in fact enforced by the wife using a blackmail: “you will never see your kids anymore if you don’t follow my conditions”. So we have 81%-82% divorces that are actually totally decided by women.
40%-45% marriages do not end in divorces. How many times have you heard a married man saying “I prefer staying married because it’s cheaper / I’m afraid by the consequences of a divorce”??? I guess it’s at least half of those “happy” marriages.
Divorce: no need to say so much about what happens – she takes the family house, the kids, half your stuff on average (for lucky men it’s just only a third, for unlucky men it’s two thirds, sometimes even more). We all know such things.
COHABITATION:
In Italy we have a law that is passing: it’ll grant alimonies for cohabitation, for a limited time (proportionated to how much the cohabitation lasted – it doesn’t mean it have to be a 1:1 proportion, it could even be two or three months of alimonies for each month the cohabitation lasted) and also the use of the “family” house for up to TWO YEARS (yes, it’s true, I’m not kidding).
No need to say who will benefits of such law, since 97% total alimonies are actually paid by men to women…
In other countries, like Australia and Canada, it’s in some ways better and in some ways worse: she earn the rights after 6 months or an year (in Italy she’ll have it since the very first day of cohabitation), but those rights are almost IDENTICAL to marriage – that means that she could take alimonies and the house FOREVER.
The same in Portugal, but she earn the rights after three years – that’s much better and even workable, but I guess most of us doesn’t live in Portugal.
Sweden is a feminist hellhole, combining the worst aspects of Italian law and Canadian/Australian laws: she earn all the rights like in a marriage since the very first day she move in.
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE:
A woman can always accuse her partner of DV, and getting her way: Duluth Model in USA, Convention of Istanbul in 19 European countries, the new UK law about psychological coercion, the Brazilian law about “femicide” – all tthose laws and policies are heavily gendered, and define the man as the perpetrator and the woman as the victim. The opposite doesn’t exist for the laws/policies. Men who are victims of domestic violence are more likely to being arrested than the female perpetrators of DV. There are plenty of women’s shelters everywhere – and the overwhelmingly majority (almost all) of those women’s shelters reject men who are victims. Men’s shelters are almost unherad of: there was one in Canada, but it was closed, now there’s just only one in ALL the world, in Sweden. In Italy the law grants three months of paid leave to women who are victims of domestic violence but NOT to men who are victims of domestic violence – some collective contracts extends such period to even six months of paid leave, for women-only, of course.At such point I have to take a little break, I’m quite busy now, but I wish to continue such discussion with all brothers here.
A little anticipation:
My idea is that we have lost on such front, and we are rightly retiring in a much more comfortable position, but that’s not the end of the battle, because the next and much more important front will be the combo education system and job market.
Men will be more and more excluded from the school (actually women are earning 60% of degrees, 1.5 times more than men, and the gap is still growing) and from the job market (in 2015 for the very first time in Italy more women than men have been hired, and almost everywhere women under 30 are outearning men under 30. Women make up 94% of degrees in teaching, something like 90% in journalism, 84% degrees in psychology, 72% of human resources managers, 50.3% of Italian judges and 60% of French judges, and in Italy the last generation of judges is 66% women – in Scotland even among solicitors, that was used to be a male job, women have surpassed men). With more and more anti-heterosexual policies and anti-harassment policies (like yes-means-yes within American campuses, consent classes in UK universities, anti-harassment policies in all the workplaces) even that gap will grow, more and more.
My idea is that, in a similar environment, avoiding contacts of sexual nature (including verbally referring to human bodies or gender or a person’s look) with women both in a campus or in a workplace it’s just the barely minimum requested to a man if he wish to have and keep a job, but we should plan and do something more.
The problem is that I’m not sure about what we should/can do, and I have no time now.
I wait for further discussion and fresh ideas.SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG-UN'S FASHION STYLIST - if you want a new look or if you're a very beautiful trans you can call me, phone number +85079255312 / mobile 01921421211. The worth of a man isn't the usefulness that women get from him. Avoiding living with a woman, a man isn't rejecting a lot of sex: he's rejecting sexual starvation. MGTOW IS TACKLING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONVENTION OF ISTANBUL: http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/rms/090000168008482e --- Article 4, Section 4 "Special measures that are necessary to prevent and protect women from gender-based violence shall not be considered discrimination under the terms of this Convention". WHAT I LEARNT FROM A GENDER STUDIES CLASS IN LUND, SWEDEN: every time feminists accuses men of doing something, odds are likely either them or persons associated with them are doing the exact same thing but a lot worse. WHO I'M RIGHT NOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1okpAj7Fhw Basically my former life have been a conflict between this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_RQVkvke4 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFIMeyTK-sU That's, more or less, all about me.
Anonymous42The law has given women the extra edge, and they use that edge to slice men to s~~~! In the past “men” had that edge, they used it to thrust the family and society ever forward, a very few abused that edge, and those numbers were rare!
Women have minds like children but equipped with the tyranny of law. That’s why I stay away, far far away!
I want nothing to do with them, I have found none worthy of any kind of partnership that could possibly last, they will rule over the man by force of law. <period.>
They disrespect us, they use us when they can, and when you’re not pushing her cart fast enough, she’ll use the law to make you run even faster for years to come spent all alone, a slave to her summonsing the law.
F~~~ women! BANG BANG BANG <gavel>, CASE CLOSED!
I’m not being s~~~ty here and agree with everything you’ve written.
However, why bother? Why try and find a solution?
I say let them carry on. The sooner it fks up the sooner they will shut the fk up, slink back in their hole …. and men can resume doing men stuff.
And NEVER give them the vote again.
While they can vote … we are all fkd … even them …. but they’re so stupid they can’t see what’s coming.
You can’t fight a tidal wave but you can grab hold of something that floats and hang on … ride it out.
It simply is beyond fixing while they rip it down around us.
Let them fk it.
Not sure that it will matter. There will be bigger problems than that in the future.
The problem is that I’m not sure about what we should/can do, and I have no time now.
All this gynocentric ends bulls~~~ when men stop feeding it, men and boys with the an education in relevant law are a step forward. But the solution is to stop marrying,cohabiting and caring about what women think or feel and advocate for men. Men enforce all the laws and pay the lion share of taxes and invent almost everything. If we can do all that then we could abolish gynocentrism.
A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!
You can’t fight a tidal wave but you can grab hold of something that floats and hang on … ride it out.
Well said. I think this is more or less where we are now, basically beyond the point of no return. I don’t know what the end will look like, but i hope to have a front row seat, and to ride out the wave more or less in one piece.
But the solution is to stop marrying,cohabiting and caring about what women think or feel and advocate for men. Men enforce all the laws and pay the lion share of taxes and invent almost everything. If we can do all that then we could abolish gynocentrism.
Does this mean “solving the problem” by essentially turning away from it, and going MGTOW? I’m trying to distinguish between the MRM (advocating to “save the system”) versus MGTOW (let it burn, then rebuild it from the ashes). Is that what you’re getting at?
Posts like this are a healthy dose of red pills for me.
As long as I have the ability to not involve myself and keep my sovereignty then I will be okay. I don’t want any part of the sex wars.
I’m currently the most successful that I’ve ever been and I’m starting to reach the age where I’m less and less influenced by my “one eyed soldier”. Most of my thoughts and desires are focused around my personal goals and I know that I don’t need anyone else in order to achieve them.
I’m not playing the game anymore. If we as men have enough solidarity just to do this, we will win. Don’t play their rigged game. Let them have their war. Let them fight it out. Let them waste their time. After they declare victory they can come home to their empty bombed out buildings and rebuild by themselves, alone. Meanwhile, I’ll be fishing with my son and kayaking down the river.
#MANOUT
The problem is that I have a son, 12 yo, and I think that some brothers here have missed a very important point:
Women make up 94% of degrees in teaching, something like 90% in journalism, 84% degrees in psychology, 72% of human resources managers, 50.3% of Italian judges and 60% of French judges, and in Italy the last generation of judges is 66% women
Teaching = education.
Journalism = information.
Psychology = the capacity of reshaping (partially) human thinking.
Human resources = hiring people and establishing advancemnts in careers.
Those fields are NOT something like 48%-49% men and 51%-52% women, I wouldn’t bother about a similar difference: a similar difference would be equality.
Those differences are 94% vs 6%, 90% vs 10%, 84% vs 16% and 72% vs 28% – in all those fields the gap is still growing.
Those fields are very likely to reshape the entire vision of our society within the next 20 years, in an even more gynocentrical way.
I have a feminist education and I’ve no problems admitting that we men, we are, generally, in some ways assholes viewing women as sexual objects.
But we have a tendency to view women as precious sexual objects.
“Women and children first!” when a ship was sinking, keep in mind that.
A gynocentric vision is way worse: men aren’t precious, no way, men are absolutely disposable.The problem I’m highlighting is that I think that I suspect that avoiding marriage and cohabitation – or even totally avoiding sex with women – will not be enough in the future.
I think that in the future they’ll be going to push men out of the workplaces, more and more.
We need economical independence to be MGTOWThat’s not a problem for me, I’m almost 43 yo. But that could be a problem for my son and his generation.
For them avoiding relationships with women could not be enough.
Take in example a gay: he doesn’t have relationships with women, no marriage, no cohabitation, no sex. He even face societal shame and discrimination.
Theoretically, a gay man should be safe, just like a MGHOW in monk’s mode, right?
WRONG.
He’s still a man, disposable in women’s eyes.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/03/22/nus-tells-lgbt-societies-to-abolish-gay-mens-reps-because-they-dont-face-oppression/The National Union of Students’ LGBT Campaign has passed a motion calling for the abolition of representatives for gay men – because they “don’t face oppression” in the LGBT community.
The NUS LGBT+ Campaign discussed the issue at its annual conference, which took place in Sheffield this week.
At the event, delegates passed a motion that blames “cis gay men” for “misogyny, transphobia, racism and biphobia”.
It says: “Misogyny, transphobia, racism and biphobia are often present in LGBT+ societies. This is unfortunately more likely to occur when the society is dominated by white cis gay men.”
The motion continues to call on LGBT societies at universities – many of whom have dedicated reps for lesbians, trans people, bi people and gay men – to abolish the role for gay men.
This is the attitude of female students towards gay boys, could you imagine what could be their attitude towards straight “cis” white men? Even worse, of course. NUS is, in UK, the National Union of Students, 66% of the members are females, and those female students will make up AT LEAST (those are the actual percentages, but it’s AT LEAST because the gap is still growing) 94% teachers, 90% journalists, 84% psychologists, 72% HR managers and 66% judges.
My idea is NOT an “MRA approach” to such future issue, that it cannot work, because it would be pandering to a f~~~ed up gynocentrical system, begging for some minor concessions.
My idea is about an individualistic solution, “MGTOW approach”, the only way that could work.
I’m generally disgusted by MRAs, at least by their Italian version – I consider most them feminists.
In my country, Italy, the situation is so f~~~ed up that we have a law that is passing, about three things: alimonies for cohabitation, same-sex civil unions and stepchild adoption for same-sex couples (with a subtle link to surrogacy). Men with at least a barely minimum level of brain would focus on criticizing alimonies for cohabitation, ignoring same-sex civil unions (who cares if gays and lesbians marry?), and praising surrogacy (because it’s the only way for single men to have children without being enslaved by a woman).
NO.
http://www.questionemaschile.org/?p=1598
They’re currently focused on attacking two gay MEN who used surrogacy, they’re focused on protecting the golden uterus.
If you use a translator you’ll be shocked hearing the very same feminist arguments against surrogacy, about protecting the “dignity of the woman”, an horrible mix of feminism and catholic tradcons.So, please, don’t confuse me with Italian so-called “men’s rights” groups, because I think that most times even sex-positive feminists are less harmful than them. At least sex-positive feminists are in favor of surrogacy, sex work and pornography, and all those three things are good for an MGHOW.
SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG-UN'S FASHION STYLIST - if you want a new look or if you're a very beautiful trans you can call me, phone number +85079255312 / mobile 01921421211. The worth of a man isn't the usefulness that women get from him. Avoiding living with a woman, a man isn't rejecting a lot of sex: he's rejecting sexual starvation. MGTOW IS TACKLING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONVENTION OF ISTANBUL: http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/rms/090000168008482e --- Article 4, Section 4 "Special measures that are necessary to prevent and protect women from gender-based violence shall not be considered discrimination under the terms of this Convention". WHAT I LEARNT FROM A GENDER STUDIES CLASS IN LUND, SWEDEN: every time feminists accuses men of doing something, odds are likely either them or persons associated with them are doing the exact same thing but a lot worse. WHO I'M RIGHT NOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1okpAj7Fhw Basically my former life have been a conflict between this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_RQVkvke4 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFIMeyTK-sU That's, more or less, all about me.
Does this mean “solving the problem” by essentially turning away from it, and going MGTOW?
In a sense yes however the problem disappears the moment we look away. Alimony, Divorce and false rape claims don’t mean anything if there isn’t men who are willing to enforce them.
I’m trying to distinguish between the MRM (advocating to “save the system”) versus MGTOW (let it burn, then rebuild it from the ashes). Is that what you’re getting at?
There is going to be a new MRM that stands for the rights of men in the future.
A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!
It doesn’t matter how many men drop out and refuse to feed the fire while we have turncoats and blue pills in control of laws.
Eric, by my source http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SG.GEN.PARL.ZS 31 percent of the Italian Parliament seats are held women. That is not enough to get the cohabitation law that you referenced passed.
Get your distance. Get economically, food source, and energy independent. The end of society will not be pretty,and you may have to defend what you have.
When the end comes it won’t just be because of women. Every pussy beggar and politician who has ever voted for this turn of events is also on the hook. Allowing women the vote didn’t cause the last 100 years and the corruption of the courts. Women burning bras didn’t create work environments that favor them. “Men” co-conspired to destroy the greatest civilizations ever created.
I can’t play fiddle and the internet will go down pretty quickly, so I’ll just have to sit on top of my house and watch the horizon for raiders.
I failed to realize in my youth that I was the prize. I was going to work. I was going to earn. Little did I realize that due to feminism, that no longer meant I had to share. Road soon, Desert after.
The gender with the most reproductive rights shape society thats why I think the male birth control”vasalgel” coming down the tubes will help.Women have the reproductive rights meaning they shape the society so no laws,professions,or movements will change this unless reproductive rights are leveraged.Its like this in almost all mammal societies.Just my opinion…
Never lose sight of what brought you here.
The only way I see MGTOW and MRA (yes, we could work on this one together) make a sizeable blow in this sex war – is to somehow educate young boys on red pill knowledge. But I don’t see this ever happening, because if it gets any traction – it will be labelled as misogynistic hate speech and banned. Maybe the way to do this is do this through fathers. But with this epidemic of single motherhood – we’re doomed
proud carrier of the 'why?' chromosome
Women make up 94% of degrees in teaching, something like 90% in journalism, 84% degrees in psychology, 72% of human resources managers, 50.3% of Italian judges and 60% of French judges, and in Italy the last generation of judges is 66% women – in Scotland even among solicitors, that was used to be a male job, women have surpassed men).
Notice, however, that none of those are wealth creating fields. They’re just window dressing. Women are not doing the jobs which create the resources upon which civilization depends. Men still do all the jobs that matter.
But men are walking away.
For now women have managed to carry on like usual on credit. But what happens when they run out of other people’s money to spend and there’s no more food to spend it on anyways because men have walked away from the plow?
The “sex wars” are not something women can ultimately win. At best they might manage a pyrrhic victory, but only at the cost of civilization’s collapse.
But that is not our problem.
Anonymous7Do what I do: Meditate, practice non-attachment, be peaceful inside:
And let it all die wihtout care, worry, or regret.
Unplugging from things that I allowed to define me to allow discovery of who I really am.
Also (and in suggesting such probably making me the craziest one here. Yeah. It’s ok.), I say summon a succubus.
Hell, summon two.
Anonymous3There isn’t a thing we can do. This war was lost before any of us were born.
I think it was probably mass media that did it. As soon as the oligarchs figured out how powerful it was, they took it over and used it themselves. The last time the world was truly free was when the Railroad industry was busted up by journalists. That is precisely where the oligarchs learned, prior to that they just really didn’t think the people could fight back at all.
Since then they’ve rigged everything and then just controlled the media to get the people to do whatever it is they wanted. And they certainly decided elevating women above men in every sphere of life was something that is to their benefit. Although out of one side of their mouths they claim they need continued population growth, on the other side they promote feminism which destroys birth rates. As well as massive wealth inequality which they’ve used feminism to achieve as well.
Ultimately it doesn’t even matter. What can any of us even do? I think it’s a sign of maturity to understand how little impact any of us really has. I remember when I was in my 20s, and even through my 30s, I had always wanted to push through and always had hope etc. But older adults would never seem interested and would instead conserve their energy and be smart. Then when I finally got older too I realized the wisdom.
A lot of you are young. I know that. Right now you’re part MGTOW but also a part of you still thinks you can “change the world” and you haven’t really truly moved on yet. But I think you will. There will be a time where you just truly, completely don’t care and that is when you are completely free. The world is not your problem. A woman’s problem isn’t your problem. The government’s problem is not your problem. In point of fact you’ll probably realize you…don’t really have any problems anymore if you stop taking on other people’s problems.
It doesn’t matter how many men drop out and refuse to feed the fire while we have turncoats and blue pills in control of laws.
Eric, by my source http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SG.GEN.PARL.ZS 31 percent of the Italian Parliament seats are held women. That is not enough to get the cohabitation law that you referenced passed.
Get your distance. Get economically, food source, and energy independent. The end of society will not be pretty,and you may have to defend what you have.
When the end comes it won’t just be because of women. Every pussy beggar and politician who has ever voted for this turn of events is also on the hook. Allowing women the vote didn’t cause the last 100 years and the corruption of the courts. Women burning bras didn’t create work environments that favor them. “Men” co-conspired to destroy the greatest civilizations ever created.
I can’t play fiddle and the internet will go down pretty quickly, so I’ll just have to sit on top of my house and watch the horizon for raiders.
I know those things.
In Italy the law about alimonies within cohabitation has been obscured by the “wider” issue of same-sex civil unions: “wider” is with quotation marks because in fact, same-sex civil unions is about less than 5% population while alimonies within cohabitation pertains 100% population (because even gays and lesbians will have such problem!): typical female deceptive tactic.
I agree with you: I even showed with the link that even the so-called “men’s rights” totally missed the main point, focusing against same-sex civil unions (that personally I approve though don’t bothering so much) and even against surrogacy (that is GOOD for men!).@phoenix:
It’s not about being MRA, I don’t think human nature can be changed so nor even gynocentrism can be erased – MRAs are fools.
It’s about an individual solution. For my son.@russky: sadly, I have to fully agree with you.
SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG-UN'S FASHION STYLIST - if you want a new look or if you're a very beautiful trans you can call me, phone number +85079255312 / mobile 01921421211. The worth of a man isn't the usefulness that women get from him. Avoiding living with a woman, a man isn't rejecting a lot of sex: he's rejecting sexual starvation. MGTOW IS TACKLING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONVENTION OF ISTANBUL: http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/rms/090000168008482e --- Article 4, Section 4 "Special measures that are necessary to prevent and protect women from gender-based violence shall not be considered discrimination under the terms of this Convention". WHAT I LEARNT FROM A GENDER STUDIES CLASS IN LUND, SWEDEN: every time feminists accuses men of doing something, odds are likely either them or persons associated with them are doing the exact same thing but a lot worse. WHO I'M RIGHT NOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1okpAj7Fhw Basically my former life have been a conflict between this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_RQVkvke4 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFIMeyTK-sU That's, more or less, all about me.
The purpose that the sex war was waged was long fulfilled…. but the war continues. You don’t fight a war with no purpose.
Whatever ‘deprived’ women masses remain, be in in the west or the east, will be ’empowered’ in the future…. they will get what they want .. their freedom and right to power. But they might just pay a huge price for it. ANd losing the support of men isn’t a quarter of that price.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
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