Mgtow is about… back to traditionalism?

[Anonymous 1]

Hello everybody.

So I would like to share a few things that are happening in the Mgtow community on the youtube (although I am guessing most of you are already aware of it) and my thoughts on it.

Apparently there is a split between MRAs and Mgtows, with the majority of the drama happening between Bar Bar, RBK2, DoctorRandomCam, Diana and now more recently Karen and John the Other. Now, as for the drama between these people, I couldn’t care less. In my opinion, RBK2 had pretty solid arguments, and his idea that going back to traditionalism and the old gender roles is not the solution aligns pretty much with what I think. In fact, these old ideas of gender roles is, in my opinion, what put us on this mess in the first place.

However, as I scrolled down the comments, I saw a LOT of self-proclaimed Mgtow actually defending the return of the old gender roles. The argument that p~~~ed me off the most was that women will not be willing to fill the tougher jobs (you know, those that man always did and died for) even if the technology allowed them to do said jobs, and since someone has to do this, MAN SHOULD STEP UP. This is a pretty similar argument tht I hear Sandman using later, this idea that we need to somehow conserve a few blue pill man in order for them to do these jobs in order to keep society running. In a nutshell, use man as cannon fodder (and man should “man up”).

Now, I would love to hear what you guys have to say, but before that let me express my thoughts on the subject.

*aham*

ARE YOU F~~~ING KIDDING ME?!?! ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW? F~~~ TRADITIONALISM.

 

This idea that we should sacrifice men, and ONLY MEN in order to keep society running is beyond stupid! If men don’t want to sacrifice their lives in order to preserve society, the very same society that deems then disposable,  then they shouldn’t have to. If sacrifice have to be made, and technology allows women to relief the burden of man in running society, let them take their share! If they are not willing to, then they should woman up! If we are going to demand from men certain responsibilities, WOMEN SHOULD TAKE EQUAL OR EQUIVALENT RESPONSIBILITIES. Staying at home doing chores that anyone can do and that, nowadays, can be taken care of after 2 or 3 hours of work, if that much, will not cut it!

Geez, are really Mgtows out there willing to go back? To throw other men under bus, and preserve the women? Really?!?

I swear, if Mgtow becomes this “back to traditionalism, where man slaves and women do nothing” thing I will drop the label in a heartbeat. Traditionalism MAY have worked in the past, maybe on medieval times, where walking outside was really dangerous, and women didn’t had the means (body structure) to anything but to get hurt. And when housework was actually hard work. But to defend this kind of s~~~ with today’s advancements? S~~~, I would even go as far as to say that since the Industrial Revolution women should have started to step the f~~~ up. I don’t want women to be useless, neither bossy. I want them to carry their own f~~~ing weight! You know, like MEN DID ALL THIS TIME.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, but these people that defend the return of traditionalism as the default p~~~es me off. Women should be treated like adults, with all the responsibilities and duties that come with it. If couples want to go back to traditional gender roles, with contracts that both agree on, that’s their business, but the law should be impartial and just with BOTH SEXES. If women don’t want to make the sacrifices, then nobody can demand any sacrifice from the men as well. No more free meals, no more pussy pass, NO MORE F~~~ING TRADITIONALISM BY DEFAULT.

Those are my thoughts anyway. Looking forward to hear from you guys. 🙂

Cheers.

 

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

The problem isn’t traditionalism, or even marriage. The problem is gynocentrism. Traditionalism, including marriage, male disposability, and so on all exist to service gynocentrism.  As does feminism.

To my thinking, MGTOW aren’t so much going their own way away from marriage and traditionalism as they are going away from gynocentrism entirely, in all its many headed forms.  Obviously you have to abandon marriage and traditionalism and disposability and feminism and all that crap to abandon gynocentrism, but they are just part of the way not the end goal.

Marriage is a gynocentric institution.  As such one of the very few things a Man Going His Own Way cannot do is get married if he wishes to continue Going His Own Way.  The phrase “Married MGTOW” makes as much sense as “Fundamentalist Christian Atheist”.  That’s not to say married men cannot Go Their Own Way.  They can.  The way they do that is called DIVORCE.  And it’s very, very expensive.  It’s best to avoid that altogether.

Anonymous wrote:

I saw a LOT of self-proclaimed Mgtow

I see a lot of self proclaimed “strong independent women” too, but they are neither.  People can self proclaim anything they want, but that doesn’t make it so.  It just makes them dishonest and deluded.

since someone has to do this, MAN SHOULD STEP UP.

F~~~ that.  If these jobs are sooooo necessary then they should go to whoever is willing to do them for the pay offered.  If you can’t find someone to do them, then you need to offer more pay.  It’s really that simple.  This is the source of the so-called “wage gap”.  Women don’t want to do these difficult dangerous jobs at any price, so the wages offered for them have to be raised to the point where men are willing to do them.

What we should NOT be doing is trying to have things both ways where men are paid more to do the jobs that are worth more “because somebody has to do them”, and then tax it all away from them (or take it through court orders or marriage contracts or whatever other ways gynocentrism takes men’s resources).  The reason why men are abandoning these jobs is because they have no real incentive to do them.  They are finding that the promised rewards are not sufficient compensation for the imposed costs.  But pay them enough and stop stealing the fruits of their labor so that it’s worthwhile again and men will go back to these “necessary” jobs.

I like to call this system of incentivization PAYtriarchy.

Traditional society worked back then because everyone had different (not not equal but also not unequal – just different) and synergistic rights and responsibilities.  It wasn’t really fair, but it did work.  Modern society pretends to want to be fair and make everyone equal while pretty much doing the exact opposite by shattering the necessary balance of rights and responsibilities in the traditionalist system.  Any system, be it traditionalist or whatever, must balance rights and responsibilities or it will fail, but the modern system goes completely out of whack by giving women extra rights (well, privileges) while eliminating their responsibilities while men lose their rights and have even more responsibilities thrust upon them.  I don’t advocate returning to gynocentric traditionalism, but it did function for thousands of years.  Feminist gynocentrism looks to be collapsing in on itself in just a meager century or so.

If we honestly want to have a true egalitarian society, instead of just lying about it while trying to force more gynocentric bulls~~~, then everyone needs to have the exact same rights AND responsibilities.  A necessary part of this is everyone in a truly egalitarian society needs to pull their own weight.  If someone can’t pull her own weight, well then she needs to pay someone else to pull it for her.  If she needs someone to perform some “necessary task”, well she needs to make it worth his while.  Or she can just go without.

[Anonymous 11]

sidecar wrote:

The problem is gynocentrism.

Identify the problem. Implement the solution. I recently spent 10 billable hours troubleshooting an arcane distributed database issue after a migration. Once I found the smoking gun, we had it fixed w/in 15 minutes.

Gynocentrism is the smoking gun. We can never go back to traditionalism as that time has long since passed, but there were positive aspects to it that we’ve lost. Women were more loyal. No fault divorce did not exist. The divorce and illegitimacy rates were MUCH lower. Men were much more likely to be real men. The women were way more feminine. Children were generally raised in much more functional environments. Was it perfect? Of course not, but traditional women had secured their fundamental rights and still functioned as an asset to our culture.

Contrast that to today’s tattooed and body pierced sluts who have 5 kids by 4 baby daddies. The children are a bunch of hooligans. Blue pillers and manginas make a make mockery of being a man too. All of this is portrayed as desirable and normal by the controlled media.

The problem is that gynocentrism is in the process of destroying society. It will if it is not stopped. The women from the traditionalist era were much, much stronger than today’s spoiled narcissistic fragile cupcakes too.

[Smitty the Great OneParticipant 1535]

Traditionalism, one the one hand women still get a free ride for the most part, but men get respect back. Also as a bonus, society in general runs more smoothly, you know s~~~ that worked in the past and all. Downside, women still get a free ride for the most part, and never grow up. Don’t kid yourself guy, the gender roles are there for a reason. I’m not saying everyman needs to get married and have the little woman back in the kitchen…. even though the kitchen IS where she belongs. I’m saying that we can be so stiff necked in making women grow up that we throw away something that works for a notion of what might never be. Just because the traditional game was rigged doesn’t mean it can’t work for some people.

It’s all about options men, as long as we have options we rule.

Life is too long to play by someone elses rules....

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

Anonymous wrote:

The problem is that gynocentrism is in the process of destroying society.

I would say that feminist gynocentrism is what’s destroying society.  Traditionalist gynocentrism was still, well, gynocentrism, but at least it wasn’t society destroying.  It kept society running, but only by destroying individual men.  It destroyed them in daily drudgery and largely pointless wars and civil conscription and innumerable other ways, but at least there was some small compensation to those men in respect and deference for their sacrifices.  Of course feminist gynocentrism still tries to benefit by destroying individual men in all those same traditionalist ways (and adds in a few more to boot) but has eliminated the respect and deference.  Moreover feminist gynocentrism tries to give women everything they want while removing any responsibility or accountability from them.

In other words, feminist gynocentrism is just regular traditionalist gynocentrism, but with all the restrictions on female greed and irresponsibility removed.

[Anonymous 11]

You’re damn right Sidecar and good point. To me general gynocentrism consists of feminist subservient manginas and feminist manipulated white knights.

Feminist gynocentrism sits at the top of the pyramid. Politicians bow to it, because feminists, manginas and white knights provide a plurality of the vote. I consider white knights to be a 5th column w/in our ranks. Manginas are just a lost cause.

I just don’t like gynocentrism, period. Thanks for elucidating the split between the two forms. I just don’t think women are capable of running society due to most of them living just for the present moment . Just like children, they are generally incapable foreseeing the future consequences of their actions. Hell, when you can summon hordes of white knights at will consequences really don’t matter.

[MrMeParticipant 651]

You guys are well versed in this subject. Frankly, I personally haven’t put too many thoughts on this , so it is quite interesting to read your ideas.

In my opinion, traditionalism is passed due. It is dead and we can never go back because of the well propagated feminism in our culture who would just bitch and whine to no end. Also, MGTOW embracing traditionalism sounds kinda stupid to me because it means to accept the use of men as ”cannon fodder” like I have read above. A very good analogy by the way.

I suck at politics, I know nothing of it and I never watch tv/read newspapers so I am not knowledgeable on this but I have an hypothesis I am willing to share: I believe we should aim for perfect equality by law, by status , by salary and by sexuality. Everyone should be considered as an asexual entity by society and by companies. Our salary and worth should be determined only by our productivity without looking at the gender. Female should lose their sexual advantages so it balances out between men and women. The value of a human being should be the same for both sexes. (please Hollywood stop making men dying a funny occurrence in your movies. Also , my b~~~~ being kicked isn’t funny. It f~~~ing hurts)

It seems like women have more value then men and I call bulls~~~ on that. Thats a big issue that feminism wouldn’t dare to touch because it is advantage to the female. Since I bought my fleshlight sex toy, girls lost alot of value to me so maybe we should start with this. Every guy should own one so that we end up balancing sexual power that is HEAVILY dominated by women. I ask for equality to every f~~~ing sphere including law, sexuality and reproduction, ffs! In their quest to equality, women should realise they have the upper hand in many different aspect of society already. We should remove this power to them and MGTOW seems like its doing a good job at balancing things out.

[BlessingsParticipant 12]

In no way we should go back to old gender rolls, it would put even more pressure on us to provide for others. The only way is forward! Men should not in anyway or form be expected to pay for another adult, men should have the same privileges when it comes to children, men should not have to bare the emotional abuse that to often comes with a relationship or have to man up and endure passive aggressive behavior etc.

Until that happens we should all just stay away from relationship.

[Puffin StuffParticipant 24979]

@ MrMe

If sex is their only currency, there are half the population competing to get that same money. It’s bitch bite bitch out there. That’s why women are always so insecure. There’s always the younger generation of girls willing to give a better blow job to get the goods.

#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.

[– Deleted on Request –Spectator 936]

Gender rolls….. is that the same as a woman having buns of steel?

 

[Cipher HighwindParticipant 1144]

That is precisely why women’s suffrage preceded the welfare state. Gold digging knows no age limitation.

Puffin Stuff wrote:

If sex is their only currency, there are half the population competing to get that same money. It’s bitch bite bitch out there. That’s why women are always so insecure. There’s always the younger generation of girls willing to give a better blow job to get the goods.

[J.D SilvernailParticipant 383]

I don’t like this traditional bullying any more than you do. That is one of the three main reasons I joined MGTOW. I’m in the 21st century and I know that Medievil times are over. I live in the present. Which is a good survival tactic by the way.

I'm married to the game,but she broke her vows.

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