MGTOW Financial Advice

[Anonymous 11]

Awakened wrote:

In some urban areas there are “decent” basic older homes that can be had at VERY attractive prices.

That’s what I did. Old wood is the best wood too.

Women hate my home as it’s not what the c~~~s desire no baubles, but she’s solid as a rock and in a great location. Also, always use a topographical map to choose a piece of property. You want to live on the high land. Women do not seem to get this practical point.

Women are the ones who make the home purchase decisions in most cases as blue pillers are weak willed. They will make one house poor in a jiffy.

[It’sallbsParticipant]

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-39360249.html

Camden isn’t even a particularly nice part of London.

fcukin sick joke.

We pay Stamp Duty (tax on hosu epurchase)

Council tax every month based on what band your home is in banded a to I think H

You pay inheritance tax if a relative leaves you money

Yu put £10 petrol (gas) in your car £8 of it is tax

the of curs we pay income tax and national insurance.

Thene tehre is VAT (value adde tax)

On car insurance we pay isnurance premium tax

….

Live in a fcukin tent mate

http://www.leavemeansleave.eu

[EyeswideopenParticipant 2930]

My $0.02

I think, as in everything in life, you want to be diversified. Having a home that you can afford, and meet your needs in terms of living space/land is important because it has utility. Money is fiat, with value assigned by the government.

You need to live somewhere. Their will always be property tax and maintenance. Worse case scenario, you take in a renter. The key is to keep things modest. You don’t need a 3000sq house for 1-2people.

Having a stock portfolio, that is also well diversified is also important. A house is a dead asset – it may or may not increase in value. Yet, a dividend aristocratic portfolio will continue to pay dividends now and 100 years from now. I don’t care if the stock goes up or down in value as when the stock is cheap, reinvesting those dividends gives you increased equity flow now and into the future. It’s known as cost value averaging. Your essentially owning a piece of a business.

Another cash sink is toys. Once the vehicle is mechanically sound, I could care less what I drive. It gets me from A—B. The more fuel efficient, the better.

Finally, allocate a portion to precious metals. If SHTF it gives you an edge on any future financial system that is enacted as humans assign inherent value to rare, bright and shiny things.

- Marriage is described as an institution. You would have to be crazy to be commited to it. -"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal. Not people or things" Albert Einstein

[BeerParticipant 11832]

PuniShredder wrote:

He’s absolutely right. Numbers have been worked out and home ownership other that a few times in history, is a bad deal after you pay a mortgage, taxes, upkeep. FAR better off renting cheap and investing in the market

When I bought my condo I didn’t have a large sum of cash to start with…I used about 25k that I had saved up while living at my parents house still as a down payment and for closing costs. When I moved out originally my mortgage, condo fees(which includes homeowners insurance), and taxes combined were about 750 a month, and renting about 750 a month, so in the start I spent my down payment money and the monthly payment was basically a wash. That was about 10 years ago. Since then, I refinanced when the rates were rock bottom and a shorter term loan with a rate less than 3% and a lower payment…so now my mortgage, condo fees, and taxes combined cost me about 630 a month. Renting a similar unit in the same building cost about 900 a month right now. Of that 630, 410 of it is the mortgage, 210 of it went right towards the principal last month.

Basically I could be paying 900 a month rent right now with 0 equity…but instead its like I’m paying 420 a month for this place, forcing myself to put 210 in the bank, and have built up 35k worth of equity. I also bought a year before the housing market meltdown…otherwise I’d have even more equity. Even after having bought right before the biggest drop in real estate value in American history…I’m still way ahead of where I’d have been if I had rented this whole time instead, and when I finally decide to just cut that last check to kill the balance on my mortgage…I’ll probably be looking at living here for 400 a month for condo fees/taxes compared to 1000+ for rent if I did it a few years down the road(although I plan on taking it the full length because the rate is so low).

For all the people who think renting is cheaper…just digest those numbers for a minute. I could move you into my condo and have you pay me the same rent dozens of other units in this building are being rented out for and you would literally be paying all my costs of ownership, putting about 270 a month profit in my pocket(even more if it was paid off), plus I’d be benefiting from various tax breaks and write offs while you’d get none. I just chuckle every time I hear how renting is cheaper when landlords that are renting properties out at a loss just to be nice guys wouldn’t be landlords very long unless they loved losing money, and if the guy is paying all the cost of owning the property and making a profit…how the hell is renting cheaper when you could just cut the middle man out who skims a profit off you each month.

Buying a property in cash if you have a lump sum may not be ideal…but realistically most people don’t do this. The real comparison is to look long term and think what will I be paying to live here in 10 years if I buy now vs if I’m still renting something similar in 10 years. Buying wins.

The big thing I notice a lot of people do is compare a little apartment to buying a house. At that point…no s~~~ renting the little apartment will always be cheaper. Compare it to buying a small condo though and long term the condo will win. If you compare buying a house to renting something similar…again…buying will win. I know when I was considering building a house, the thing that turned me off was property taxes here. The average house around here cost about 6k a year. I planned on getting a few acres, not the typical .5-.75 acre lot that is common around here, so I’d have been looking at 7-8k a year in property taxes. Doing that would have meant just my yearly taxes alone would have cost more than what I’m paying to live here now even with a small mortgage, and that doesn’t even include the additional time requirements and maintenance expenses of a house that my condo does not have, or is much cheaper.

[Chris1234Participant 353]

I agree Beer. I think buying a place to live in is well worth it. I belive my city is in a property bubble however if the s~~~ hits the fan it will be the dickheads who are mortgaged to the hilt who will feel the pain. Also I dont want to have to get permission off a landlord to hang a picture, repaint it etc. If you have a modest home or apartment which you can afford you cant go wrong. You can also build up your stock portfolio and buy an oz of gold now and again at the same time. Its all about diversifying.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

Chris1234 wrote:

I agree Beer. I think buying a place to live in is well worth it.

The trap people fall in is thinking of a home as an investment. Its not. Its an expense. When I bought my condo I never assumed that I would ever be able to sell it for enough to recover everything I put into it and make a profit off it…I bought it under the assumption that if I kept a spreadsheet comparing what it cost me to live here vs what renting would have cost me year over year, that even if owning turned out to be slightly more expensive short term, in the long term, it would save me a ton of money, and a little over a decade in it has clearly worked out that way and is leaning more heavily in favor of owning each passing year.

[PuniShredderParticipant 2268]

Apparently some of you did not watch the video. That hundred thousand dollar property that you bought if paid off for 30 years and up being hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars More after the magic of compound interest working AGAINST you. Add to that property taxes, inflation which in the United States starkly of the last four years has really been 7% regardless of the governments phone numbers. Then even if you pay the property off several times it’s asking price you still never really on it because the government can take it from you for $50 in unpaid taxes with your eminent domain. And you still have to pay property taxes on it after you pay the bank back three or $400,000 for your $100,000 house.

Yes I know you have to live somewhere but like I said living in the 30 foot sailboat if you live near the coast or in an RV or you can be mobile is very cheap and you could invest the difference in over 30 years very easy to calculate you would be in a much better position By any measure.

Now paying off the house had a cash price and for a good price is a different story altogether. Even though you would still owe taxes if you bought the right house in the right area they could be very minimal. There isn’t one way to skin a cat but paying off a house over 20-30 years, the associated taxes, upkeep and interest do not make home ownership a good investment for many people. This is FACT.

Be professional be polite but always have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

PuniShredder wrote:

Apparently some of you did not watch the video. That hundred thousand dollar property that you bought if paid off for 30 years and up being hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars

I watched the entire thing. My point was if you had rented that property that was 100k 30 years ago for 30 solid years you’d have spent a lot more money and have 0 equity in the house compared to if you just bought it.

PuniShredder wrote:

More after the magic of compound interest working AGAINST you.

Compound interest is when you get interest on an investment over a period of time, and over the next period of time you get more interest on your initial investment plus interest on past interest. Paying interest on a loan doesn’t do this. Every time you make a payment you pay less interest the next payment, not more.

PuniShredder wrote:

Add to that property taxes, inflation which in the United States starkly of the last four years has really been 7% regardless of the governments phone numbers.

You do realize your landlord is still paying these taxes if you rent, don’t you? When your taxes go up 50 dollars a month your landlord will just raise your rent 60. The “I rent so I don’t have to pay taxes” line is the dumbest argument imaginable.

PuniShredder wrote:

Then even if you pay the property off several times it’s asking price you still never really on it because the government can take it from you for $50 in unpaid taxes with your eminent domain.

Eminent domain laws have nothing to do with delinquent taxes.

PuniShredder wrote:

And you still have to pay property taxes on it after you pay the bank back three or $400,000 for your $100,000 house.

Take 2 minutes to play with a loan calculator. You aren’t going to pay back anywhere near 400k on a 30 year loan for 100k with today’s rates. You would have to get a loan at 13% to pay that much back, and today’s rates you’d get around 4%. You would pay back 171k over 30 years…nowhere near 400k.

Yeah you have property taxes…but again…why bother bringing them up if you rented or owned the same house either you’d pay them directly or your landlord would pay them after skimming a profit off your rent money.

PuniShredder wrote:

Yes I know you have to live somewhere but like I said living in the 30 foot sailboat if you live near the coast or in an RV or you can be mobile is very cheap and you could invest the difference in over 30 years very easy to calculate you would be in a much better position

So the big question…would you own that boat or RV or rent it?

PuniShredder wrote:

Now paying off the house had a cash price and for a good price is a different story altogether.

Not with today’ rates man. I’m paying 2.79% interest right now. If you think we are having 7% inflation why the hell would you not want to borrow money at 2.79%? It would basically mean the true value of your outstanding balance shrinks by 4.21% per year…that would be awesome for you.

I could pay the balance of my mortgage off several times over with cash I have in the market, but I don’t, because its easy to buy stock paying 3.5-5% dividends plus hopefully some appreciation on shares each year…why would I want to give that up just to avoid paying 2.79%?

PuniShredder wrote:

Even though you would still owe taxes if you bought the right house in the right area they could be very minimal.

Again taxes are a non factor when you stop being ignorant about it. If you had two of the right houses in the right area(basically similar properties of similar value)…what do you think would make more financial sense…buying it or renting it? If you wanted to live in an RV…what would make more sense financially buying or renting? That is the point I’m making. When you make this comparison for a long term residence buying wins.

At the very core of the issue renting is paying all the costs of home ownership plus your landlord skims a profit off you. The only time I’ll admit renting wins financially is if you are somewhere you only plan on being for a few years, then its simply not worth going through the process of buying something and dealing with the banks, lawyers, and realtors if you aren’t going to be there long enough to build up enough equity to make it worth it.

PuniShredder wrote:

There isn’t one way to skin a cat but paying off a house over 20-30 years, the associated taxes, upkeep and interest do not make home ownership a good investment for many people.

Ok…so go pay rent…and the guy collecting your rent will be paying all those expenses PLUS skimming a profit and getting tax breaks for doing it. Like I said…its not an investment I ever expected to actually make money on. There is a reason why people who own multiple properties rent them out and don’t just buy properties to let them sit empty so they can sell at a profit in 20 years, buying a place to live vs renting is about reducing long term expenses.

PuniShredder wrote:

This is FACT.

I’ve already given some of my personal numbers that show how buying vs renting was a good move for me(even though I bought right before the crash and my property still isn’t worth what I paid for it). Let’s look at some of those 270k homes in Solon Ohio that the guy in the video was talking about.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6977-Kingswood-Dr-Solon-OH-44139/33718004_zpid/
Zillow value estimate, 261k.
Zillow rent estimate, 2,250 a month. (27,000 a year)
(in 1985 for 17,500 dollars and now you’d be sitting on a property you could sell for a quarter million where as if you rented since 1985 you’d have nothing to show for it)

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5341-Harper-Rd-Solon-OH-44139/33717472_zpid/
Zillow value estimate, 270k.
Zillow rent estimate, 2,136 a month. (25,632 a year)
(sold in 1999 for 50k…again you’d have a nice chunk of equity if you mortgaged this 20 years ago compared to 20 years of rent)

I’m really not seeing where renting is winning here. Even if you bought that one house in 1999 for 50k and still had a bit to go on your mortgage…50k for 30 years at 7.5%(1999 rates if you never refinanced) means you’d be paying the bank 140 dollars a month for principal/interest + 500 a month in property taxes if your taxes were 6k a year. You’d be paying 640 dollars a month to live in that place vs 2,136 a month rent.

Sure the guy who owned probably also put money back into the place…but 20 years later he’d also be sitting on a quarter million worth of equity, saving 18k a year vs renting, and writing off his interest and property taxes to save a couple grand more.

I understand the merits of downsizing, and how buying a 270k house is pretty pointless for a single dude with no kids, and I’m all about living frugally, but again, comparing the cost of living in an RV to living in a 270k house really has nothing to do with the own vs rent debate.

[Anonymous 1]

For me I needed a place to work on stuff at. The reason I picked this single family home is mostly for the garage. I picked this location because taxes are cheaper than surrounding areas.

Plus I picked a house that I could easily pay for. Especially now that the ex is gone. Amazing I have money now that I don’t have a women in my life. I’m paying my mortgage every two weeks half plus $100 going right on principal.

And for my advice for money savings. Eat at home. Grocery store had t bones on sale $4.99 a pound I brought five. Freezing four of them.

[Chris1234Participant 353]

Agree again Beer, I think one of the biggest factors where buying wins is if your living in a city with a growing population. My city is growing at a ridiculous rate so prices have doubled on average every 10 years over the last 40 years (they have actually doubled since 2009).
I’m not saying this will happen again all I know is if your in a city like this and you buy something which you can comfortably afford and you pay it off early you will be well ahead as you also have the capital growth.
The other thing for me is if I hadn’t have purchased my place I wouldn’t have been disciplined enough to put all the money towards other investments, I’m sure a lot of it would have gone on booze and boys toys as I was in my 20’s, the mortgage was a good way to curb my spending.

It may be a completely different case where rent wins if you’re in a city where the population growth is low or declining so I’m not saying the guys video is wrong, I’m just saying there are certain situations where owning is better than renting.

[Author]

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