MGTOW and collective wisdom.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

In another thread, the concept of “Collective Wisdom” came up. I figured it might be worth discussing it in its own thread, and if the MGTOWosphere can end up developing collective wisdom to it, that would help resolve possible conflicts by having some issues put to rest, but also help prevent men from falling into traps. I believe there is a bunch out there now, usually around understanding the nature of women and some with how society works. I am wondering where it will head in the future, and figured I might as well start a thread on it here. I will see if I can get the discussion in the other thread moved here.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[Anonymous 25]

I prefer the term systemic wisdom as systems theory and cybernetics applies to a lot of what we are seeing and it even explains what has been labelled as patriarchy. I’m not precious about it though and it being a collective effort is important. Maybe systems theory and cybernetics can be a part of collective wisdom somehow. Drawing on the collective wisdom and expertise from various mghow from various fields makes a lot of sense.

I have developed a Theory of Patriarchy (patriarchy is just a label and there is no such thing, it’s just a process) recently which explains the process of how men end up in power and explains the growth of mgtow.

I am conscious of 2 points:

1) space is a little limited here for a full detailed article on certain issues; and
2) do we want lurkers seeing this information or do we want some of it classified to mgtow?

My view is that a systemically wise approach for collective wisdom would be to have mgtow cells that have knowledge and expertise in certain areas i.e. those with marketing knowledge and rhetoric that can produce you tube videos. Those with legal skills. The stealthy mgtows that can recruit and carry out certain tasks. Those with skills of research. Those with skills for finding and spreading information. Those with IT and other skills that can be useful. Those with knowledge of cybernetics and systems theory. And maybe even some that can carry out lawful acts of civil disobedience if and when numbers get large enough. Those with skills of PR that can carry out charity work and help other men i.e. Mayor of Mgtown’s work on helping the homeless. These cells would all be linked in some way to work together with a common aim. At that moment they are, although kind of loosely. The aim would be to have this all working together i.e. the other elements would feed into the content of you tube videos.

No one has power, we are all going our own way and doing our own thing but in a way that works.

I’ve researched this and the advice is that this is the best way to grow something and prevent disruption.

[John Woods 13Participant 2855]

I think this is being over analyzed.
There is no need for coordination, activism or PR. These are more dangerous that helpful, as they create cults of personality and concentration of information into sources that are seen as “references” but which can easily be corrupted.
MGTOW is not a movement, as most of us have nothing to prove and nothing to gain from sharing our experiences and “wisdom”.
We, however, as individuals might feel the need to warn others of the risks associated with women on the one hand, and on the other support others who identify themselves as MGTOW or just socialize (as we do here) within a like minded group.

That’s it as far as I’m concerned. Just like any other type of wisdom, people will learn by example or from their own mistakes.
Just keep interacting here, or make videos or whatever other form of expression you choose. Do all this things YOUR WAY, and others will learn from you and go their own way too.
Anyone who would try and “centralize” MGTOW as a movement and start drawing “rules” is just in need of attention.

There are no f~~~ing rules. The wisdom will come from people seeing the same thing being said and repeated by MGTOW that don’t know each other, are from different countries, different ages, different incomes, religions, races, etc, and they are not following any set of rules.

The answer is NO. “I could but I won’t”. Memini murum!

[John Woods 13Participant 2855]

All I can think of is this example:

You are a young man sitting on a bench waiting for the bus. Then this old gentleman sits down next to you and starts telling you some of the realities of life. You just ignore him, but a small light bulb turn on in your young brain.
Now, think of thousands of “old” gentlemen telling you virtually the same thing, but from their own perspective. Eventually enough light bulbs will turn on that you will see the light, and will become one of the “old gentlemen”…

hope that makes sense…

The answer is NO. “I could but I won’t”. Memini murum!

[Anonymous 25]

John Woods 13 wrote:

There is no need for coordination, activism or PR

Why would you not want to help men find mgtow by carrying out charitable work like helping the homeless like the Mayor of Mgtown?

I’m confused, why do you have a problem with the Mayor of Mgtown doing that?

Also, who talked about imposing rules? That’s the opposite of the law of requisite variety that I’m referring to.

Who said anything about it being a ‘movement’?

Hope that makes sense…

(refer back to my previous posts that Richard is referring to if not. The links are there and I see no point to keep reposting them)

There was a Starduck video (think it was him) where he makes this point i.e. rather than attacking each other like Sandman and someone else. Anyone still have the link?

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

I am thinking of doing a video on the “tyranny of facts” where I see there is a push to try to objectify and rationalize that which is subjective and personal. I see this with MGTOW happening. “Facts” get used as weapons to end up trying to get compliance to certain standards and behavior, rather than end up being tools of value. My hope is any collective wisdom in the MGTOWosphere (my word for the MGTOW part of the Manosphere, that involves all MGTOW related activity and actors), ends up being tools.

For myself, I see MGTOW as an escape from the system for personal liberation for each man on a personal level. There isn’t going to be any sort of mass anything, but the wisdom is going to have to be for personal empowerment so a man wins in his own life, and is able to overcome the challenges Blue Pill won’t want to face in life, for fear of loneliness, rejection, and the denial of base biological urges that MGTOW need to do because it comes with the territory. In this, anything said “collective” has to be voluntary in participation and meet the needs of men involved on a personal level. I know that some in the MGTOWosphere want there to be some sort of mass uprising, but that isn’t going to happen in all probability, or at least not during the lifetime of MGTOW now. And when it happens, it very likely can end up being like the Arab Spring which ends up producing an ISIS to bring order and implement a utopia by force they see meets their ideals..

At best, I see MGTOW building a support network that is free flowing, and not anything else. It has to be this to allow maximum liberty and also be able to sustain any sort of attack. The mayor’s work is good, and would fit, but each part of the network is going to have to be driven by smaller action.

And with all this, the wisdom I see is a how to and structures that help, to enable individual men to navigate towards better lives… that don’t need women.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[RoyDalParticipant]

The Tribal Lore of the Middle Class. What we should have learned from our forefathers and did not.

These days there are YouTube videos and How-To websites for what I’m going to lay out below. In my day, I had to get it from mom and dad or learn it on my own. It was a bit of both in my case.

1. Handle money responsibly. Spend less than you earn. Build up a cash reserve, and invest it wisely for your future. For example — and it’s a top-drawer great example — StealthyMGTOW’s income property purchases. Spend less than you earn, means pay cash or do without. Only borrow for something with a foundation under it. Preferably something that will rent for more than the loan payments and thus support itself. Everything else, cars, clothes, vacations, pay cash or do without.

2. Do your own automobile maintenance, as much as you can. Oil changes, tire pressure, are far cheaper if you do them. Cultivate a good mechanic for the hard stuff. There are too many poor ones out there.

3. Learn to cook for yourself. If you are picky about the ingrediants of your food (I am) then cooking is the way to go. Cooking saves time (no kidding) and money over going to cheap restaurants, and it’s cheaper than takeout of course.

4. Learn to do your own housework and home repair.

5. Learn to do your own laundry, if circumstances permit.

6. Learn to sew buttons on shirts, and even patch small tears.

7. Hobbies and exercise are necessary parts of a healthy life. Get some.

8. Always be in learning mode. You might learn more from fools and failures (what not to do) than from wise men and sages (good things to do). There is no one on earth you can’t learn something from.

That’s all that leaps to mind at this moment.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[Soldier-MedicParticipant 2566]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

My view is that a systemically wise approach for collective wisdom would be to have mgtow cells that have knowledge and expertise in certain areas i.e. those with marketing knowledge and rhetoric that can produce you tube videos.

I’m not an mathematical, IT type. However, it’s been my experience that allocating personnel to fulfill specific tasks creates a type of despotism if not elitism. Individuals and small collectives within large groups tend to develop a mindset that they are apart and/or above the rest. Over time, there is fragmentation of the overall group and culture. However, a loose affiliation in which people volunteer for a specific project, then fall back in the ranks tends to last longer. Creating a repository of lessons learned for the individuals within the group allows others to learn at the own pace and in their own way. So in my own way, I agree with John Woods 13. I can’t help but remember that many of our relationships failed despite the application of logic.

John Woods 13 wrote:

There is no need for coordination, activism or PR. These are more dangerous that helpful, as they create cults of personality and concentration of information into sources that are seen as “references” but which can easily be corrupted.

"I asked you a question. I didn't ask you to repeat what the voices in you head are telling you" ~ Me. ........Yes I'm still angry.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Soldier-Medic wrote:

richardhutnik wrote:

My view is that a systemically wise approach for collective wisdom would be to have mgtow cells that have knowledge and expertise in certain areas i.e. those with marketing knowledge and rhetoric that can produce you tube videos.

I’m not an mathematical, IT type. However, it’s been my experience that allocating personnel to fulfill specific tasks creates a type of despotism if not elitism. Individuals and small collectives within large groups tend to develop a mindset that they are apart and/or above the rest. Over time, there is fragmentation of the overall group and culture. However, a loose affiliation in which people volunteer for a specific project, then fall back in the ranks tends to last longer. Creating a repository of lessons learned for the individuals within the group allows others to learn at the own pace and in their own way. So in my own way, I agree with John Woods 13. I can’t help but remember that many of our relationships failed despite the application of logic.

I don’t think I wrote that above. It was written, but I think Mac did, not I. I am just pondering things myself, and my ideas, and posting to end up saying things that can go into a collective wisdom. I am not sure what will stick though.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

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