How will Western Muslims change once war ends?

[UintatheriumParticipant 1861]

Hi guys. I just have a question for you.

What if we successfully ended the neocon war machine? How would Western Muslims change in terms of behavior?

My Prediction: They would gradually calm down and eventually start voting Republican … since the artificial conflict between Western conservatives and Middle Eastern conservatives is gone.

MGTOW: because you can (and should) say anything about a woman as long as she isn't within earshot

[NerevarParticipant 8040]

They won’t change. Islam demands that Muslims must always try to take over the unbeliever countries.

You might say “the peaceful ones won’t! I never had any problems with them!”, but it’s happened more times than I dare count where young, peaceful guys were brainwashed, recruited, and sent off to (suicide)bomb cities/train stations/nightclubs around the world or fight in the Middle-East in the name of Allah.

"One of the best things internet exposed is just how insane women are." - Freeman_K

[Big BossParticipant 4496]

Ending the neocon menace is important because they are helping Al-Queda achieve their plan of bankrupting the US among other destructive anti-American traits. But them using the US bases over seas as an excuse and etc…. frankly, we were sold a lie that Islam is a religion of peace. It isn’t. Its modus operandi is a war footing. That’s why muslims are constantly at war with one another such as Sunni and Shia dating thousands of years for some f~~~ed up reason that could have been parodied on South Park’s Athiest League vs Athiest aliance.

We need to pull the bases out because it is not American’s business to police the world and engage ourselves in entangling alliances.

To pretend that Muslims will taper down is a silly idea in some respects. The religion needs a reformation on par with Martin Luther. And it won’t because Martin Luther had Jesus’ teachings to back his fight against the church. Muslims don’t have that in Islam. As Sam Harris explained once that Bin Laden was pretty much teaching the core tenets of Islam. It doesn’t matter that there are peaceful westernized and civilized muslims. No one has a problem with them in the west to begin with. We are talking about pretty much everyone else.

[KillmandrillParticipant 497]

Uintatherium wrote:

What if we successfully ended the neocon war machine?

Not only an end to the war machine would be needed, also and end to capitalism or a change to the state it´s in right now.
I don´t see that happen,….though maybe when at least all natural resources are gone or a way is found to be independent of those resources..,.

Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent. Friedrich Nietzsche

[Anonymous 24]

What evidence do you have that there is intention to end any of these wars in the Mid East?

I say there is more evidence that the intention is to wage never-ending war.

[Big BossParticipant 4496]

Killmandrill wrote:

also and end to capitalism or a change to the state it´s in right now.

[KillmandrillParticipant 497]

Ron Paul is a smart guy, both Hillary and Trump lack his class and wits. Paul could´ve been a true representative for the USA. I don´t see that in the current candidates.

Don´t get me wrong I don´t say:”.. please, please capitalism end!” Rather that the one condition “capitalism” will sooner or later lead to a war with losses of some kind, be it on the stock market or in the real world, growth is the goal, you can´t grow without expansion….

Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent. Friedrich Nietzsche

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

Ron Paul is wonderful.

Actually, there is significant impetus to NOT end the wars. ISIS benefits from them (easier to get new recruits). Countries receiving foreign aid benefit from them. Remember the ‘peace’ settlement between Egypt and Israel (Camp David Accords)? It came with the agreement to pay foreign aid money in perpetuity to Egypt.

If Western Muslims comprised a political majority, the outcome would depend if they were ‘moderates’ like in Turkey, or extremists like Wahabbists — Islam is not completely monolithic — remember Ataturk and the founding of the Republic of Turkey. If they were extremists and in the majority, they likely would live the credo of one man, one vote, one time (i.e. vote in a theocracy)

Many younger Muslims will become decadent Westerners, though, and stop going to Mosque every Friday, and instead go drinking and clubbing against ‘Allah’s will’. So who knows, the children of today’s Muslims may grow up to vote for Chelsea Clinton for president, haha.

The issue is not just Islam; if ANY one religion becomes a dominant majority, it OFTEN spells persecution. Think about the pogroms against the Jews in Europe by the Catholics OR the *Catholic* Inquisition. History is often whitewashed. It is not proper to refer to as a *Catholic* Inquisition just like it is politically incorrect to refer to *Islamic* terrorism. There is certainly other terrorism, but most faced by the West, is Islamic. The history of terrorism is facsinating and merits study.

That said, where I live, many of the immigrants are NOT assimilating well, with many collecting government bennies. So it’s a mix here in the rustbelt. If we would stop giving out the benefits, it would weed out the freeloaders. The ones collecting bennies (SURPRISE) comprise most of the radicals we DON’T want that don’t assimilate well. This aspect is NEVER discussed in the mass media.

Big Boss: Islam is a religion of Peace once it takes over all the other religions. Seriously, it’s no more a religion of peace than Christianity; in both, the punishment for apostasy is death. The 30 years war and all the European ‘wars of religion’ between denominations, were fought over whether the protestants would prevail or Europeans would bow down to a Pope. Maybe the religions that DON’T punish apostasy with death and DON’T mandate spreading the religion, are the true religions of peace? There are several of them.

Many religions are spread by violence. Was the settlement of the American continent about bringing religion to the natives or Europeans getting rich? Or both?

[Big BossParticipant 4496]

Killmandrill wrote:

Ron Paul is a smart guy, both Hillary and Trump lack his class and wits. Paul could´ve been a true representative for the USA. I don´t see that in the current candidates.

Don´t get me wrong I don´t say:”.. please, please capitalism end!” Rather that the one condition “capitalism” will sooner or later lead to a war with losses of some kind, be it on the stock market or in the real world, growth is the goal, you can´t grow without expansion….

There are many reasons for war. The growth of captialism and production has actually been the biggest reason why wars have become more unpopular than it was under feudalism, socialism/communism, and theocracy.

Capitalism’s creation of a middle class breaks down desires to steal and violent theft.

[KillmandrillParticipant 497]

Capitalism and its connection to the industrial military complex and as the beneficiary of mining of natural resources for me is whats behind all current wars, if you produce weapons you want to use/sell them.
Of course there´s still territorial conflicts (Ukraine), but the backgrounds of that is, as I think, the Russians need to have ports to access the mediterranian to have more trade (money) and military power.
The former socialist countries were/are still bound to the global system of capitalism, they just did/do not have a choice, if they wanted to trade their goods or acquire goods they can´t produce themselves.
The nations/people around the areas with the most valuable natural resources like crude oil (Middle East/Africa) are kept in a unstable state so anyone can go and grab some, just like Isis does and what will follow. If so they´re ever defeated and there´ll be no new organisation funded to terrorize there, the nations will be in need to be built up again with help of foreign corporations and they can´t pay with money. I think the only one who really benefits from a war nowadays is capitalism or the banks.
Most wars will take place in nations that are weakened anyway somehow, or have nothing to offer besides natural resources, that´s how I see it.
Markets get destroyed like in Africa where farmers are giving up on raising life stock because meat waste (i.e chicken carcasses) that is unwanted in the EU is getting sold there, it just does not pay out for the African farmers anymore.
In exchange the EU trawler fleets clear the West African coasts from all the fish and companies pump African water out of the ground to bottle it and the farmers can´t water their fields anymore (Nestlé).

Of course earlier in history there´s been way more wars going on, under whatever system, there´s been wars that lasted 100 years (territorial/religous), capitalism or globalism have changed the game a little, trade has grown a lot, alliances have been forged and treaties have been signed or are in the works (TTIP), let´s see what´s the outcome.
Also the attitude towards war has changed a lot in the common mind.
Currently there´s no alternative to capitalism, yet a little change to it wouldn´t do no harm.

Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent. Friedrich Nietzsche

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

What war ending? I go with Fallout and say… War Never Changes:

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[Joey AlfioParticipant]

Muslims change? You must be out of your mind.

Even their ‘holy’ and ‘peaceful’ prophet had countless sex slaves, was a known raider and bandit and massacred many in the name of his god. He was no different than ISIS.

Δεν υπάρχει τίποτε αδύνατο γι’ αυτόν που θα προσπαθήσει. - Μέγας Αλέξανδρος

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Joey Alfio wrote:

Muslims change? You must be out of your mind.

Even their ‘holy’ and ‘peaceful’ prophet had countless sex slaves, was a known raider and bandit and massacred many in the name of his god. He was no different than ISIS.

There are numerous westernized Muslims who end up doing an inward Islam that doesn’t demand they impose a theocracy on the society they live in. The fundamentalist types who need theocracy won’t change at all. As a backlash against globalization, you see this fundamentalist version spreading to place where discontented individuals need something. They end up rallying to ISIS and so on, believing if they can just get some form of governance in the past, all will just be swell.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

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