High education/skills is not the skills needed tomorrow

[RulesParticipant 55]

Automation is about to replace great number of jobs. Many people claim that the answer is higher education and more college degrees. However, a great number of so called higher skilled jobs are repetitive too and can be automated. High education may be a very bad investment.

If you want a higher educatio you:1) get a lot of debt,2) may lose a lot of friends because higher education takes a lot of time, 3)lose a lot of free time

Since the robots can also do the high skilled jobs, the skills needed in labor market will be interpersonal skills and social skills. These skills are conversely correlated to the amount you spend reading books. Young person doesnt develop these skills reading maths. Ironically, the so called “bad boys” who have done everything opposed what school told them may have chosen the right pathwayö.

College and high education are a bad investment. Skills needed in the future are interpersonal skills and physical attractiveness which affects your social skills very much.

[The_YoungParticipant 1073]

mfw I’m a union electrician with benefits and paid pension

if only kids these days weren’t afraid to get their hands dirty

Brother, we need to stick together.

[EyeswideopenParticipant 2930]

The_Young wrote:

I’m a union electrician with benefits and paid pension

if only kids these days weren’t afraid to get their hands dirty

– Agreed.

I think smart people separate a job from their identity. A job is simply exchanging time for money. Work is not suppose to be fun – it is called work for a reason.

You have to find an employment field that is in demand that others, relative to yourself, don’t want to do. Also, you need to be a life long learner in the context that if your current stream of employment goes dry you have marketable skills to find alternative employment.

Trades are great for now – but are hard on the body as one gets older. Plan ahead.

Building a revenue stream, when your young, is important. Be it property, a well balanced portfolio; better yet a combination of both. Money truly is worthless in the context that inflation and fiscal policies can wipe out it’s value over night. I buy things with utility.

Getting a degree in ancient history demonstrates intellectual aptitude but is meaningless towards putting food on the table and a roof over your head. The debt alone from said degree will take decades to pay off at a minimum wage job.

Like marriage, upper education that does not lead to a direct job (professional designation) (dentist, lawyer, doctor, accountant etc) is a waste of time.

- Marriage is described as an institution. You would have to be crazy to be commited to it. -"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal. Not people or things" Albert Einstein

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22568]

Do you know how use a gun and rifle? Do you know how to hunt, kill, and field-dress an animal? Do you know how create fire-pit, with a grill, to start a fire, and properly cook that animal?

Those are the skills you are going to need after a collapse of civilization.

[Silverstone the SecondParticipant]

Right now there’s plenty of work in the skilled trades like welding and so on. There are plenty of jobs in those fields, and no one to fill those jobs. Mike Rowe did a story about this, link posted below.

The current answer is that school and education will fix everything. Can’t find a job? You need school! He talks about how you should work smart NOT hard. But you always need to work hard. If someone does blue collar work, they’re viewed as if they’ve failed in life. Like only s~~~ty stupid people do blue collar work. It’s not desired work. And so you have a bunch of broke college kids now because they’re getting degrees for jobs that no longer exist or very soon won’t exist. I do blue collar work and make decent money. People don’t want to work hard, and automatically discount 50% of the work out there because it’s beneath them.

Feminism is a movement where opinions are presented as facts and emotions are presented as evidence.

[Anonymous 11]

It takes a balance between the two to have a properly balanced society. I think as the OP mentioned people skills are going to have a premium placed on them in the future. However, not everyone has them. The stupidest guy I know both intellectually and critical thinking wise is a prodigy in all things electrical and mechanical. He has zero people skills too.

I think the sweet spot is a trade that must be performed locally with enough barriers to entry that some random third world illegal immigrant can’t replace you.

You do have to be careful with formal college degrees. When I got my degrees back in the paleo era, my return on investment was very good. A good STEM education teaches one critical thinking skills that can be applied to many situations. They can also get you in trouble politically too. College degrees will also open a whole class of decent jobs that would otherwise not be available to you so don’t dump on them too hard.

Whatever your situation, do what is best for you and your natural talents. Just do not get degrees in Fine Arts, Gender Studies, or their ilk.

[Anonymous 42]

Eyeswideopen wrote:

I think smart people separate a job from their identity. A job is simply exchanging time for money. Work is not suppose to be fun – it is called work for a reason.

Hey Eyeswideopen, you’re in an underachieving dead stale s~~~ job if you think like that!

I’ve always made sure I enjoyed my work, my time spent in s~~~ jobs throughout my entire life adds up to less than 8 months! Not learning anything? No new skills? Repetition? F~~~ that, I was GONE!

I have skills and know-how from working with some of the finest metal craftsmen in the world! I also do/did all phases of construction from the chimney to the leach field, pluming, electrical, you name it! I did it!
All the oak woodwork in my house I trimmed, planed, and shaped from rough cut lumber. I have shaper bits for making everything from door stiles to raised panel doors and window frames. I do tig, mig, and arch welding too, lots of skill fabricating diamond plate and working with T1 steel. Rebuilt engines, transmissions, rearends, and quite a few restorations too.

You’re wrong about higher education, it all hinges on what you learn and how you apply it. I wish I stayed in school and studied chemistry, perhaps on a different timeline where feminists didn’t rule the school.

I can’t believe there’s full grown men 30 years old that can’t do s~~~! That’s a f~~~ing disgrace! When I was 30 I was salvaging cars purchased at auction, often these wrecks were two cars spliced into one, running and rolling straight out the door with fresh paint finished in less than two weeks! And doing roofing on the side!

[Buller100Participant 2189]

The_Young wrote:

mfw I’m a union electrician with benefits and paid pension

if only kids these days weren’t afraid to get their hands dirty

The great thing about those type of trades is you can do weekend private jobs, a van and a few $ for tools and you are self employed,,in uk a sparks work can’t even be done in your own house unless you are qualified.. So lots of options, like an investment you have several ways to earn a dollar.

[AnthonyParticipant 2281]

Anonymous wrote:

I can’t believe there’s full grown men 30 years old that can’t do s~~~!

I can’t believe it either. I may not know a whole about cars, but I know a lot of basics in carpentry and plumbing. When me, my sister, and my parents lived in the country, we built our house for $10,000 dollars by doing all of the construction by ourselves.

I was about 10 years old back then and they had me doing some basic apprenticeship type work which I loved. Most 10 year olds today wouldn’t even know how to build a f~~~ing fence. It’s insane.

Once you have a Fleshlight real vaginas become worthless.

[The_YoungParticipant 1073]

The great thing about those type of trades is you can do weekend private jobs, a van and a few $ for tools and you are self employed,,in uk a sparks work can’t even be done in your own house unless you are qualified.. So lots of options, like an investment you have several ways to earn a dollar.

I’ve already done a few basic things on the side! My only regret is not charging my ex 100$ so I could pull the ground pin out of her plug.

Brother, we need to stick together.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Rules wrote:

Automation is about to replace great number of jobs. Many people claim that the answer is higher education and more college degrees. However, a great number of so called higher skilled jobs are repetitive too and can be automated. High education may be a very bad investment.

The inescapable logic of technological innovation is that manual labor, both physical and mental, is gradually replaced by machine labor. This ostensibly frees human hands and minds to do higher value work… instead of turning a crank to cuts a sheet of metal, you program a water jet machine to cut it, and so forth.

The problem is that as efficiency increases faster than consumption, you end up with an overhang of semi-skilled workers who are faced with having to either 1) step up their skills to compete for a shrinking pool of jobs that can produce higher value under the current paradigm, 2) drop out of the meaningful labor force and become under or unemployed or 3) figure out new ways to make themselves valuable that is outside of the current paradigm.

The last one is the most ideal but the hardest one to accomplish. The irony is that, in this case, getting a college degree is essentially useless. Once you’ve completed the first two years of general education and exposure to new ideas and assuming you’re not involved in advanced research, the best a university can hope to accomplish is teach you how to do something that someone else has already done.

When you’re trying to cut a new trail you don’t need map reading skills, you need pioneering skills… and universities simply don’t teach that sort of thing.

[FrankOneParticipant 1435]

Eyeswide open writes: Trades are great for now – but are hard on the body as one gets older. Plan ahead.

In many ways, I feel the trades are BETTER on the body. I’m an engineer. Most of the ‘office workers’ are overweight and will die of cancer or heart disease. The lead mechanic where I work, is in kick-ass shape, and he’s 60 years old! He is in better shape than ‘professional’ office workers two decades his junior. Sometimes his back is a little stiff in the morning. He has a few scars and cuts. He’s older than I am. The only way I keep in shape, is going to the gym every other day. Otherwise, I’d be another office fatso. I have seen trade workers out of shape, but only if their diets are total junk food. And many trade workers tend to drink too much. But, most office or ‘sedentary’ workers over 40, are obese! That said, working in, say, the Texas sun all day, is not good on your skin. And some work environments involve exposure to toxins.

I disagree with technology being ‘about’ to replace a great number of jobs. ‘about’ = when artificial general intelligence is achieved, and an accompanying technological singularity. It’s hard to put a timetable on innovation — that’s futurism.

College may or may not be a good investment — depends on the job market in the field you study and how much debt and opportunity cost & also whether you graduate in a recession like I did a little over 20 years ago when jobs are scarce. But, back when I went, it was 1/3 the cost. Many fields are saturated with new graduates, making it challenging to find work for new graduates.

[Zuberi TauParticipant 10606]

What’s wrong with obtaining IT certifications?

[EyeswideopenParticipant 2930]

Anonymous wrote:

underachieving dead stale s~~~ job if you think like that

Not so my friend.

I am a physician. I studied STEM as an undergrad. I do enjoy my work – but it is not my identity. I derive most of my identity from family, my interests, beliefs and hobbies. Regardless, work is still an exchange of time for money/goods at the heart of the matter – you want to maximize that ratio to free-up time to pursue your true passions (fun). If the two happen to coincide all the better.

I do agree that STEM cultivates critical thinking skills over gross memorization and this served me very, very well during residency. Yet, you still need to have an end job/field in mind. Intellectual curiosity needs to be separated, in part, from material needs. Once material needs are met to your level of comfort, then curiosity/fulfillment can be pursued. The world is full of starving genius’. (And I don’t mean this statement to be challenging or flippant.)

Anonymous wrote:

You’re wrong about higher education, it all hinges on what you learn and how you apply it

I was referring to upper education that does not provide direct, transferable skills as I stated. In my view, a degree in history, women’s studies, fine arts etc is severely limiting your gainful employment options; in general in this economy. That’s why I like trades – very pragmatic. Cause and effect. Nothing is stopping you from researching some super interesting factoid in your spare time.

- Marriage is described as an institution. You would have to be crazy to be commited to it. -"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal. Not people or things" Albert Einstein

[Deadly RaverParticipant]

Meh. Learning Investing as we speak. I’m too old and injured to be running around, but you’re never too old learn how to make your cash work for you.

Learn from the past, Control the present, and you will know the Future.

[coolthingy450Participant 1223]

There are guys in my workplace that do hate their jobs because they make it their identity.

This pothead/druggie broken person want’s to go firefight because he want’s to gain the respect of people, and be a hero. To me a job is just a job. Rather or not I like it or not is irrelevent.

I didn’t know that you guys thought of a job the same thing. My god the people here in Canada are entitled for high wages but are not willing to put in the work.

Actions have consequences and consequences have prices. Cause and effect at work.

[coolthingy450Participant 1223]

Stargazer wrote:

Rules wrote:

Automation is about to replace great number of jobs. Many people claim that the answer is higher education and more college degrees. However, a great number of so called higher skilled jobs are repetitive too and can be automated. High education may be a very bad investment.

The inescapable logic of technological innovation is that manual labor, both physical and mental, is gradually replaced by machine labor. This ostensibly frees human hands and minds to do higher value work… instead of turning a crank to cuts a sheet of metal, you program a water jet machine to cut it, and so forth.

The problem is that as efficiency increases faster than consumption, you end up with an overhang of semi-skilled workers who are faced with having to either 1) step up their skills to compete for a shrinking pool of jobs that can produce higher value under the current paradigm, 2) drop out of the meaningful labor force and become under or unemployed or 3) figure out new ways to make themselves valuable that is outside of the current paradigm.

The last one is the most ideal but the hardest one to accomplish. The irony is that, in this case, getting a college degree is essentially useless. Once you’ve completed the first two years of general education and exposure to new ideas and assuming you’re not involved in advanced research, the best a university can hope to accomplish is teach you how to do something that someone else has already done.

When you’re trying to cut a new trail you don’t need map reading skills, you need pioneering skills… and universities simply don’t teach that sort of thing.

And that’s why I don’t think college is the answer. Trades is the thing I will be going for, but anything else, no.

Actions have consequences and consequences have prices. Cause and effect at work.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

coolthingy450 wrote:

There are guys in my workplace that do hate their jobs because they make it their identity.

Ive heard people talk about making their jobs fun or turning their hobbies into work… sounds great, but there’s a huge potential for having the business aspect suck the joy out of the hobby aspect (imagine trying to make a living playing jazz) or having the fun part cause you to take your eyes off the business side (think heavy drinker owning a bar).

For me, I always tell people “Do what you can so you can do what you want.” Start with the law of competitive advantage and figure out what youre really good at then do that thing for money. With the money you earn, take up the hobbies that you like and if one of them presents an opportunity for making money that doesnt threaten your base income, go for it.

Then when the hobby job is making the same as the work job, switch over but be sure to keep your channels open to go back to the work postition if need be.

That always seemed like a good balance.

[Anonymous 11]

Eyeswideopen wrote:

The world is full of starving genius’

Tesla at his death is the penultimate example.

I couldn’t handle the ick factor of Biology as I’m squeamish so I never considered med school. What I do is analogous to what a physician does. I diagnose and implement remedies for complex issues that effect enterprise IT systems. That STEM degree is so valuable to me as it taught me how to explore the unknown due to my research experience.

[narwhalParticipant]

Anonymous wrote:

Tesla at his death is the penultimate example.

I couldn’t handle the ick factor of Biology as I’m squeamish so I never considered med school. What I do is analogous to what a physician does. I diagnose and implement remedies for complex issues that effect enterprise IT systems. That STEM degree is so valuable to me as it taught me how to explore the unknown due to my research experience.

Agreed. I have an engineering degree, yet I work in IT. I forgot most of what I learned in engineering, except how to solve problems. I really barely even code anymore, I mostly just problem solve, whether it be a bug in the system or a business problem that isn’t working as efficiently as it should.

Getting good skills is important, but learning how to think is going to be your most valuable asset.

Ok. Then do it.

[Author]

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