Herbivore men in the west

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

Beer wrote:

until the system collapses.

I’ve got $19 trillion arguments that we’re already there. Never mind the $102 trillion in unfunded (and unfundable) liabilities. The whole country and everything in it is only worth $116 trillion.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

sidecar wrote:

I’ve got $19 trillion arguments that we’re already there. Never mind the $102 trillion in unfunded (and unfundable) liabilities. The whole country and everything in it is only worth $116 trillion.

A lot of those “unfunded liabilities” are from pension funds that were never properly funded, social security that the previous generation spent on other s~~~ rather than leave it alone for what it was intended for and now want to cry its underfunded, and medicare. They don’t really have to pay the promised amounts…and personally I hope they slash all these programs. If the people who want to collect on them in retirement couldn’t fund them fully while they were working I don’t see why my generation should have to pay more to support someone else’s retirement while we will receive less…either by reduced benefits or not being able to collect them until a more advanced age.

But…that’s also why my long term planning strategies consist of an exit plan. Whatever “fixes” the government comes up with for supporting single mommies and other unfunded liabilities obviously isn’t going to be friendly to single, childless, high earning males of working age. When the inevitable of higher taxes and f~~~ing people like myself over begins, I simply quit my job and pick out my spot near the beach in South America I want to retire to while in my late 30s/early 40s. If you can earn 30k a year in investment income without touching your principal you have quite an extensive list of countries you can live an upper middle class lifestyle in without ever having to work another day in your life…why would I want to stay here and be a slave to the system when I’d have the resources to just do that instead?

No thanks to paying for unfunded liabilities for retirees who get to collect earlier and will probably have much more generous benefits than I will in retirement thanks to me paying more for less, and no thanks to supporting “strong and independent” single moms. The day I have enough money to go live my days out abroad, this countries problems simply stop being my problems and become an amusing side show for me to laugh at.

[bigboy83Participant 11312]

I heard that California is turning into the Japan of the United States.

Rumor but if anything it will happen, in California or Texas, then it will spread. Maybe even New York. Things happen quicker, with bigger populations.

Shit Tested, Cunt Approved.

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

Beer wrote:

If the people who want to collect on them in retirement couldn’t fund them fully while they were working I don’t see why my generation should have to pay more to support someone else’s retirement while we will receive less…either by reduced benefits or not being able to collect them until a more advanced age.

But that’s just it. There are millions of irresponsible people who are foolishly relying on those unfunded liabilities to take care of them instead of sensibly managing their own affairs. Those people are counting on something that simply is not there.

The unfunded liabilities (especially the social security shortfall) isn’t really an indicator of debts to be paid. It’s an indicator of seed corn already eaten.

The system is already collapsing.

[Anonymous 11]

@sidecar:

The US is currently at a net present value of $205,000,000,000,000 in unfunded mandates. That would be $205 trillion for those who got lost in the zeros.

That’s present value of the FRNs needed to fully fund all of the promises made by our piece of s~~~ politicians. Future value is anyone’s guess. Mine is $1 Trillion for a loaf of GMO pesticide ridden moldy bread.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Anything herbivore related outside of Japan, is likely going to be under the MGTOW label. Unless there is a duplicate social trend as what is seen around MGTOW circles, the label is “MGTOW”. There was/is TFL, but it didn’t go anywhere.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

sidecar wrote:

But that’s just it. There are millions of irresponsible people who are foolishly relying on those unfunded liabilities to take care of them instead of sensibly managing their own affairs. Those people are counting on something that simply is not there.

Oh I get that…my point is simply these unfunded liabilities won’t be my problem when I’m not working in this country, don’t own any property in this country to pay taxes on, and spend most of my time abroad where the cost of living is much cheaper.

Of course I doubt I’d ever give up my citizenship because I hope to recoup some of the money I’ve paid into social security some day, and if 10 or 20 years down the road from now we have universal healthcare I’d love to take advantage of that as well while I’m just an early retired non-contributor riding on the backs of the working class.

Anonymous wrote:

That’s present value of the FRNs needed to fully fund all of the promises made by our piece of s~~~ politicians.

Its not the piece of s~~~ politicians, its the idiots who continuously vote for the same piece of s~~~ politicians who promise them more “free” s~~~ and more services without taxing them enough to support it. Too many people want a lot more out of the government than they want to put into the government, and what we are seeing today with our massive debt and unfunded liabilities is the result of something that has been several decades in the making.

Social security is just one example…the very baby boomers bitching that its underfunded and not solvent are the same ones who elected the politicians who spent social security money on other things. They could have not spent money on those other things, trimmed spending and reallocated money from elsewhere in the government, or raised taxes…but nah…it was easier to just kick the can down the road and now they want to whine when money they promised themselves isn’t there to collect on because they didn’t put it there.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

While they don’t share the same roots exactly, there is much overlap and both involve men giving up on marriage and women. There are economic factors involved with both. MGTOW has its roots in the manosphere, while the Herbivores don’t. In the past, throughout history, you have men who also did much like MGTOW, for numerous reasons. In all of it, there is a large degree at discontent over social norms, and a rejection of them, which will involve avoiding women and not marrying.

I say there is overlap, because the trend of MGTOW and Herbivores, complete with the postponing of marriage, all are found in western societies.

Stargazer wrote:

I’ve said this before but I believe it bears repeating. I do not believe that the Japanese herbivore men movement and MGTOW are branches of the same tree.

While the outcome may be similar… men dropping out of marriage and family and pursuing their own interests… I believe the motivator in Japan is a combination of a generation of economic stagnation coupled with the feminizing effects of the Japanese reliance on soy.

MGTOW, on the other hand, has a lot more to do with burgeoning awareness of female nature and a conscious rejection of societal expectations of male utility and disposability.

We are rejecting marriage, the family and traditional institutions and going our own way because we’ve come to realize that the game is rigged against us and the more we produce, the more we are used, abused and discarded. They, on the other hand, simply see no point in working hard to gain success to find a mate and build a family because previous generations used up everything and there’s no point in trying to improve one’s situation.

Put simply, the soushokukei movement is passive. They’ve just sat down and given up whereas MGTOW is an active rejection of the old and re-alignment to a new male identity.

As for the soy feminization thing… if you don’t believe me then go spend a week in Shibuya and then tell me that their young men aren’t “prettier” than our women.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

sidecar wrote:

Yeah, but that’s just Tokyo being Tokyo. You can’t use it as a yardstick for the rest of Japan any more than you can use a San Francisco gay pride parade to represent the United States.

By the definition of the words, Japanese herbivores are definitely Men Going Their Own Way. Because they are men who are not going the traditional Japanese wife supplicating salaryman until you work yourself to death way. They are not marrying. They are not cohabiting. They are not procreating. That makes them MGTOW in my book. They might not look like western MGTOW, but would you expect a Honda civic to look like a Ford F150? For all that they don’t look the same or do the same, they’re both vehicles.

Obviously I never said they weren’t going their own way. I said exactly what you just said… that they’re experiencing the same results but are driven by different root causes. Did you even read my post?

And no, it’s not just Tokyo. I didn’t intend to write a dissertation about the cumulative year I lived in Japan and the differences and similarities between the Japanese youth I saw in Tokyo, Chiba, Osaka, Gunma, Shimoda, Nagano, Yamanashi, Nagoya and Ishikawa but I could… and while there are variations in the level of feminization of young Japanese men, I could make a strong case that it is common and widespread in Japanese culture and maybe a less strong but still potentially compelling one that it has a lot more to do with their decades long recession and traditional diet than a conscious awakening to the issues surrounding male utility and disposability.

Are we clear now?

[sidecarParticipant 35862]

Stargazer wrote:

that they’re experiencing the same results but are driven by different root causes.

But I do not believe that they actually are different root causes. Not really. Not at the root. Gynocentrism, female solipsism, female greed, and the inevitable economic and social implosion when they are not kept in check are pretty damn universal. The expression of these identical root causes differ culturally, but that’s only to be expected. Even though the paths diverge, they start and end at the same points.

Stargazer wrote:

while there are variations in the level of feminization of young Japanese men, I could make a strong case that it is common and widespread in Japanese culture

But I see the same general feminization of men in Europe and America, too. Not superficially in the same way as Japan, true, but the underlying trend is still the same. And there’s a case for it being chemically influenced over here, too. Where Japan has soy pseudo-estrogens, the west has parabens f~~~ing EVERYWHERE in EVERYTHING. Then there are all the prescribed behavior altering chemicals like ritalin etc. shoved into young boys simply for being boys instead of little girls.

We are far more alike than we are different.

Stargazer wrote:

than a conscious awakening to the issues surrounding male utility and disposability.

But again it’s the same in the west. There are far far more Men Going Their Own Way than have ever heard of MGTOW. They may not know what to call it. They may not be able to articulate the whys and wherefores. But they do know that women and the marriage rat race aren’t worth it and so act accordingly.

I’d be interested to see what a Herbivore’s take is on MGTOW. I don’t know if there is such a thing, at least on the internet, but I suspect they’d see far more similarity than differences as well.

[Puffin StuffParticipant 24990]

I have to agree with Sidecar here, Doc. Many men in the world are subject to the same pressures that we at MGTOW.com are but have never heard or even envisioned such a thing as “MGTOW”. Both groups are dealing with the problem in a similar fashion. They’re as MGTOW as we are.

So, the herbivore men are MGTOW expressing it in a different fashion than Western MGTOW’s who tend to rely on individualistic solutions like ghosting to deal with MGTOW problems.

We don’t care about labels, one thing all us men have is common is that we are tired of being on the plantation and are not going back.

#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Puffin Stuff wrote:

Many men in the world are subject to the same pressures that we at MGTOW.com are but have never heard or even envisioned such a thing as “MGTOW”. Both groups are dealing with the problem in a similar fashion. They’re as MGTOW as we are.

Dude, read my lips: I never said they are not going their own way. I said they are going their own way because they have been crowded out of their own society and economy and their food is turning them into girls.

Now if you want to disagree with me, disagree with that, but don’t tell me I’m wrong about them not being MGTOW or gynocentrism not being an issue in Japan because I never said nor implied that either of these things are the case.

The Herbivore movement has a lot less to do with gynocentrism and a lot more to do with overcrowding and lack of life purpose. You know the Mouse Utopia experiments (if not, look it up, plenty of really good videos about it in the usual MGTOW channels). Japanese herbivore men are “the beautiful ones”… literally. They’ve withdrawn from social and economic life because there is simply no place in it for them so they spend their time sleeping, eating and preening, completely disengaged from struggle and reproduction while their society literally collapses around them.

Yeah, it’s going their own way, but it’s a vastly different situation from the intellectual awakening we’re experiencing here.

[Author]

Posts