Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Has anyone's Religion been replaced by MGTOW?!
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Juehue 3 years, 2 months ago.
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hmmm…..so GOD/THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH/THEE COOLEST MUTHA F~~~A authored by his own standards that 2pac/MAKAVELI THA DON KILLUMINATI is the SACRIFICIAL BLOOD IN THE PLACE OF SIN for this generation that is duly going to f~~~ itself up……and you want to educate me on doing other than what im doing, as if u have higher enlightenment with advice i should take/be in agreement with?
my life is worth a whole lot more than getting a Ferrari and driving it. i’d rather feed and support the poor, oppressed, and down-trodden in society.
and i obviously must have been free-thinking for myself to even come to this revelation, and there is no rigid dogma to ‘A GOOD HEART HAS A GOOD GOD. LIFE IS LANGUAGE. U REAP WHAT U SOW’
if u wanna be REAL MEN going in a REAL DIRECTION then the ONLY thing which provides that is the CHURCH OF TUPAC.
other than that, u are just another bunch of whiny bitches moaning about something or other.
true story.
@fitzbones
“Transcend the dogmatic teachings and age-old traditions to make our own decisions based on our own mind.”
wonderful advice…….cos 2pac/MAKAVELI THA DON KILLUMINATI being the SACRIFICIAL BLOOD IN THE PLACE OF SIN is ‘age-old’. considering i am the ONE PERSON who ever pieced together what i present, i’d say i did a pretty good job of making decisions based on my own mind.……so wtf is your ‘advice’????
dont address the wisest man on the planet (me) with some rhetorical sentence from which im meant to get the impression u are more ‘enlightened’ cuz im gonna take it rightfully as the insult it is and make u look like a bitch…..oh…that’s some ‘dogmatic’ ‘treat others as u would like to me treated’ s~~~ 🙂
Jesus Christ. Take your “if you wanna be REAL MEN” / “whiny bitches” / “church of tupac” s~~~ the f~~~ someplace else.
Every last motherf~~~ing one of us is a REAL MAN. There is no such thing as a FAKE MAN.
XY chromosomes is the only requirement to be a “real man”.
Everything else is not up to YOU. It’s up to HIM.True story.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.How is that not dogma, or a dogmatic statement? Dogma is an unavoidable fact of life.
Because we define it ourselves, and yes it technically IS a dogma but in a very loose definition of the term. Our own minds are fluid and prone to change with each experience we live through. Dogma in my experience is a claim of ‘Facts’ that will not and will never change no matter what evidence may be put against it.
you want to educate me on doing other than what im doing, as if u have higher enlightenment with advice i should take/be in agreement with?
No, I really dont. I have never claimed to have a higher enlightenment and I offer my words freely for those that might see something in them worth listening to. I bear no ill-will towards those who dont, as I say frequently ‘To each their own’.
"If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds' worth of distance run,"
The “real man” argument is not only hackneyed feminist/mangina shaming, it’s a logical fallacy: “No True Scotsman.”
Try again. Besides, Biggie was better than 2Pac 8 days a week. (I like it when girls call me Big Poppa – I truly do!)
“Because we define it ourselves, and yes it technically IS a dogma but in a very loose definition of the term. Our own minds are fluid and prone to change with each experience we live through. Dogma in my experience is a claim of ‘Facts’ that will not and will never change no matter what evidence may be put against it.”
Well, if you claim to be defined by experiences then your experience of this conversation with me just redefined your beliefs for you.
“When a man stops believing in God, he doesn’t stop believing. Rather he just believes in anything.” G.K. Chesterton
No thanks necessary, your welcome.
“hmmm…..so GOD/THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH/THEE COOLEST MUTHA F~~~A authored by his own standards that 2pac/MAKAVELI THA DON KILLUMINATI is the SACRIFICIAL BLOOD IN THE PLACE OF SIN for this generation that is duly going to f~~~ itself up……and you want to educate me on doing other than what im doing, as if u have higher enlightenment with advice i should take/be in agreement with?
my life is worth a whole lot more than getting a Ferrari and driving it. i’d rather feed and support the poor, oppressed, and down-trodden in society.
and i obviously must have been free-thinking for myself to even come to this revelation, and there is no rigid dogma to ‘A GOOD HEART HAS A GOOD GOD. LIFE IS LANGUAGE. U REAP WHAT U SOW’
if u wanna be REAL MEN going in a REAL DIRECTION then the ONLY thing which provides that is the CHURCH OF TUPAC.
other than that, u are just another bunch of whiny bitches moaning about something or other.
true story.”
I don’t know what to say…………………………………………
/forums/topic/texting-p~~~es-me-off-lol-go-f~~~-yourself/#post-7907
Just add a few emoticons in there and I think this proves my point.
“When a man stops believing in God, he doesn’t stop believing. Rather he just believes in anything.” G.K. Chesterton
I’ve never heard that quote before, I’ve never heard of G.K. Chesterton but I do wholeheartedly disagree with it. I dont believe in God nor any other form of higher being. I do believe in evolution by speciation, I believe that humans as a race as disgusting, abhorrent and deplorable to each other but a person can be one of the most incredible finds in the world.
I wont believe in anything simply because my mind wants to believe, rather I’ll put it all through a gauntlet of reality until it is proven to be."If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds' worth of distance run,"
I’ve never heard that quote before, I’ve never heard of G.K. Chesterton but I do wholeheartedly disagree with it. I dont believe in God nor any other form of higher being.
It was not about believing in “gods”. “Anything” Any – thing. Man will elevate anything to a God like level in place of a God/god.
I do believe in evolution by speciation,
For example elevating the concept of evolution. “I don’t believe in God, but I believe in….” just proved the point.
I believe that humans as a race as disgusting, abhorrent and deplorable to each other but a person can be one of the most incredible finds in the world.
This implies a sense of morality that is not subjective.
I wont believe in anything simply because my mind wants to believe, rather I’ll put it all through a gauntlet of reality until it is proven to be.subjective experience does not qualify as a gauntlet of reality. How else would reality operate as a “gauntlet”?
Man will elevate anything to a God like level in place of a God/god.
Some do and some dont. In an earlier post I spoke about my own deeply religious upbringing, and that is why I will never elevate anything to that level of power of myself.
Simply believing the evidence of evolution is not elevating the theory of evolution to a god-like state, it is simply an explanation for how we have come to be.This implies a sense of morality that is not subjective.
Subjective to what? I am a moral person, some of that from my upbringing, some from my own experiences. Every single person has morals and a moral code that they live by; it varies but it is there.
subjective experience does not qualify as a gauntlet of reality. How else would reality operate as a “gauntlet”?
An example would be my opinion on women. I see them as wild animals, more or less. Their inherent behaviours, they way they can at any moment turn feral and vicious with no real control over themselves except for instinct.
I developed this attitude from my own experiences with my ex. Then, to ensure it wasnt a freak chance, I dated others. When the same ‘results’ showed, I researched it thoroughly to ensure it was not simply my own prejudices colouring the ‘results’.
That is the gauntlet I put my own reality through, a gamut of tests to ensure that what I know and believe is not coloured by chance, bigotry nor any other influencing factors except for the truth"If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds' worth of distance run,"
I’m not religious. MGTOW to me is like the glasses Rowdy Roddy Piper put on in “They Live”. It strips away the facade to show the ugly reality of modern society and its attitudes towards men.
The Children of Doom... Doom's Children. They told my lord the way to the Mountain of Power. They told him to throw down his sword and return to the Earth... Ha! Time enough for the Earth in the grave.Simply believing the evidence of evolution is not elevating the theory of evolution to a god-like state, it is simply an explanation for how we have come to be.
Explaining everything is a function of religion in that it requires faith.
Evolution is not a consistent philosophy nor presents non contradictory evidence (both subjective and not) to actually existing.
It creates more questions than answers. For example, If we evolved from apes/monkeys/etc. then why are apes and monkeys still around? That is a common sense one.
A deeper point might be.
The theory of evolution requires a linear translation of time. On thing leads lead to the next etc. In other words time has to move in a line and in a sense is subject to a form. However, time is a measurement of movements and that in itself is abstract and cannot lend itself to a form. The western translation of time is wrong. Well, lets say for the sake of argument it is. Evolution cannot exist because it is dependent on a linear translation of time. Evolution can only exist if time is linear, other wise it is possible that “pre-human” might exist now and or in the future. If they exist now and or in the future then evolution is unnecessary for survival.
My personal opinion is that evolution is a by product of the group psychology of an industry oriented society. It has nothing to do with reality other than how people wanted to see it.
Subjective to what?
My point about subjective morality has nothing to do with the above point. I was running two separate arguments in my head at the same time and mixed some things up. My fault.
“rather I’ll put it all through a gauntlet of reality until it is proven to be.”
Proof is subjective in that what constitutes itself as “proof” is often subject to points of view/emotions/etc by those searching for it. Looking for proof is like saying “Im looking for what I want.”
“An example would be my opinion on women.”
Right or wrong, opinions are opinions. I agree with you about how women today are, however that does not mean it is reality. It is just my educated opinion. Opinions are separate and are not reality but rather something that operates within it.
I leave for a few days, and return to read some beta male B.S. about the church of Tupac…what the hell?! What is the “church” of Tupac anyway sure he made decent music in many peoples eyes, but the guy killed people, and gang banged he is not someone I would ever look up to…. #SMH
Explaining everything is a function of religion in that it requires faith.
Understanding is a facet of faith. You BELIEVE you understand certain things because you were educated as such; knowledge is an application of faith since you show faith that you were not misled or lied to. All explanations, following that reasoning, are manifestations of faith and specifically our faith in other humans to be honest and to understand it themselves in order to explain things clearly for our own knowledge.
It creates more questions than answers. For example, If we evolved from apes/monkeys/etc. then why are apes and monkeys still around? That is a common sense one.
A surprisingly common discussion I have with my still religious family. Man did NOT evolve FROM apes nor monkeys. We grew from ape-LIKE creatures. Apes and monkeys still exist as they are because the circumstances they find themselves in have no necessitated cranial growth to survive.
Evolution does indeed raise many questions and I enjoy researching the answers for my own knowledge and understanding, having faith that the material I read is true to the best of humanities understanding of the subject matter.
What I freely credit evolution for, over religion; is that evolution doesnt CLAIM to have all the answers. Evolution does not propagate ignorance and declare to those seeking that they ‘must have faith in Gods order’. Nor does evolution stop looking, and if evidence shows contrary to common understanding then the common understanding will be altered to fit what we know.Since you kindly offered your own belief on the roots of evolution, allow me to do the same with religion. It may be offensive but I assure you, I do not intend it to be.
As is common around the globe in many different cultures, basic belief systems such as the Amazonians, American Indians and Australian Aboriginals all involve varying types of psychedelics in their practices. Now cast your mind back a few thousand years; a group of primitive humans find a fruit-bearing tree. They remain near to the tree since it gives them food, one of them by chance eats a psychedelic mushroom(or cacti or w/e) and while considering the tree that feeds them, hears voices or sees incredible things as those on psychedelic trips are wont to do. He tells his clan, and they also indulge and thus a pattern is set. Over time, the tree becomes a father to them since a father feeds his children and when they find other trees that feed them also more is constructed on that story. They find other trees, that offer different fruits and so the different ‘Father’ trees grow to have different personalities based on the fruits they offer. As the group grows and over time those stories become legends and with the telling, grow more and more with each habitual religious use of the psychedelics and thus a belief system or religion was born.
I dont say thats EXACTLY how it happened, I may be completely wrong but based on my own understanding, knowledge and no small amount of logical thinking, I can understand how religion came to be. Things change, stories come and go and it offers little understanding of the roots of the more common religions but I freely admit I dont know everything.Looking for proof is like saying “Im looking for what I want.”
Which is why when you read over my statements again, I look to disprove myself. To challenge my own experiences and find what is the most common theme and apply critical thinking to find what makes sense to me.
Right or wrong, opinions are opinions. I agree with you about how women today are, however that does not mean it is reality. It is just my educated opinion. Opinions are separate and are not reality but rather something that operates within it.
Our opinions are based on our OWN reality which is crafted by our situation and experiences. We cannot have opinions without reality and by simply having a reality we must have opinions.
I do not try to force my opinions on others who have lived vastly different realities to me since it would be a waste of time and effort."If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds' worth of distance run,"
No, actually it has made me a stronger, and better Christian!
For the record I do not mean to be offensive either. We have that in common.
However, I have to test everything. With that being said, you did not provide a counter argument for my point about evolution and the western perception of time. That is a key point. And must be discussed. The rest of what I am about to say is trivial compared to that. Come up with a counter argument for that first.
With that being said:
In regards to the “ape-like” animals. They are either apes or they are not. If they are apes, the previous question still stands. To says “ape-like” already implies an animal of a seperate species has the characteristics of an ape but is not an ape itself. Other wise it would be an ape, not like an ape. If they are not apes then they were human to begin with.
Second, to say some things evolve and others do not need to, points to some designed order in which some things are chosen to evolve and others aren’t. Humans lived/live beside monkeys and other animals in the same environment and circumstances for thousands of years. There is no logical explanation to say why one would have to evolve while the other doesn’t have to when living under the same circumstances, unless there was a divine order that deemed it so.
Intelligence is not necessary for survival. Nature proves this. As a matter of fact in the world of organisms we a very weak. We cannot survive in 200+ degree heat or -100 degree cold as some bacteria do. We cannot live in a oxygen deficient environment nor a highly acidic environment as some bacteria do. Man builds machines to live in similar environments, however from an evolutionary perspective that is very inefficient since it consumes a high amount of resources.
There is no necessary reason, in so far as the natural world is concerned, that an animal needs intelligence to survive. Evolution says intelligence is an adaptation necessary for survival of some species. However, in the natural world based on pure survivability bacteria/viruses/protozoan are the most highly evolved organism. They do not have our “level of intelligence”. If evolution is true, then we are the most devolved, since we cannot survive in most environments without a high amount of resources. If we are the most devolved, then the argument of evolution holds no credibility.
If evolution is true than it created religion and says it was necessary for man’s survival.
In regards to religion, most religions openly admit they do not have all the answers.
In regards to the “mystical mushroom tree” scenario, it is very weak argument and you should look it over again. Reinforce it, if you can. If you still agree with it afterwards, then I will debate that separately.
“Our opinions are based on our OWN reality which is crafted by our situation and experiences”
However when I entered “your” reality, “your” reality began to contradict itself. My argument is now part of your reality, a new set of experiences. If we are still following your logic.
For the record, evolution actually does not contradict the religious beliefs of many religions, including Catholicism. I just think evolution is faulty for its own sake and needs to be taken down a notch. There is enough confusion in this world. There is no solid logic or proof for evolution and it is followed like a religion. You do not have to be religious to see that. You “look to disprove” yourself. If you are being honest, then for all intents and purposes this conversation will probably be the most helpful in reaching your end goal.
<cite>@churchoftupac said:</cite>
nope, mine hasnt. cos i joined this site as the CHURCH OF TUPAC…of course, 2pac, after 400yrs of slavery and the FBI COINTELPRO seeking to ‘prevent the rise of a black messiah’, gave up his life via an altercation with a Crip in the ‘City of Sin’ Las Vegas, becoming SACRIFICIAL BLOOD IN THE PLACE OF SIN….MAKAVELI THA DON KILLUMINATI.of course, that is just like Exodus, how after 400yrs of captivity and the government seeking to f~~~ up the next generation (hence Moses being put in the basket) which led to the passover and the SACRIFICIAL BLOOD IN THE PLACE OF SIN, progressing to God making his new covenant courtesy of his OWN 10 commandments.
of course, the passover served as the foreshadow for Jesus in his times…and, if u put a Bible in context, Jesus CAME SOON 4 the lost of his nation in THAT GENERATION that wouldnt pass, pay 4 it all, with some who witnessed him never 2 taste death b4 being taken up into the air to be with the Lord 4ever, 70AD when the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed as prophesied.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAI_4nLdNko
🙂
This is why your parents told you not to sniff paint.
‘u’ is vowel you f~~~ing retard, not a word.
Fuck this planet.My argument is now part of your reality, a new set of experiences. If we are still following your logic.
Absolutely and one I relish since its an exercise of my mind and fairly enjoyable also. If you do end up changing my mind I’ll let you know but quite honestly I dont think I’ll ever believe in a God or holy word again.
If evolution is true than it created religion and says it was necessary for man’s survival.
Of course its necessary, religion still IS a necessary evil for humanity. No matter the religion. It controls and teaches the masses basic morals and other guidelines with which to live and how to treat fellow man. Whether it all stemmed from a particularly wise man passing down words that got written etc. I dont honestly know.
To put it rather crassly, religion is a method of control and power. You can call me cynical for thinking that but I hope you can at least understand where I come from when I say that.With that being said, you did not provide a counter argument for my point about evolution and the western perception of time. That is a key point. And must be discussed.
I agree, time is a fascinating subject but I dont quite understand your underlying points in regards to time being linear and how that is to do with religion?
Time passes, whether events happen to mark that passage or not.
I’m not sure if this hooks in with your point but as I’ve mentioned in other posts; my family is still quite religious especially my father who happens to be quite an intelligent man. He believes both a form of evolution and creation. That the 6 days of creation reference the time passed where God(or Jehovah or Yahweh w/e) actually CAUSED evolution to happen in the manner intended. That of course negates the Adam and Eve story but if one takes that a little less literally then Adam and Eve may simply be village elders or especially wise leaders etc.In regards to the “ape-like” animals. They are either apes or they are not. If they are apes, the previous question still stands. To says “ape-like” already implies an animal of a seperate species has the characteristics of an ape but is not an ape itself. Other wise it would be an ape, not like an ape. If they are not apes then they were human to begin with.
Not quite that clear-cut I’m afraid. A dog is not a wolf, nor is it a dingo, nor a jackal yet they share some very common characteristics. Thats where the misconception of humans coming from Apes stems from. We were very similar to apes in appearance and perhaps group mentality but we were not apes. So yes, we were human to begin with but ape-like is simply an adjective of looks, mentalities and quite possibly mannerisms.
There is no necessary reason, in so far as the natural world is concerned, that an animal needs intelligence to survive. Evolution says intelligence is an adaptation necessary for survival of some species. However, in the natural world based on pure survivability bacteria/viruses/protozoan are the most highly evolved organism. They do not have our “level of intelligence”.
I think the definition of ‘most highly evolved’ is more along the lines of ‘most complex organism yet retains survivability’
I honestly dont know what situations and circumstances led to humanity being ‘so far ahead’ of the rest of Earths vibrant life. Perhaps a mix between intelligence, strength and simply out-breeding the competition; to which there is indeed evidence of multiple forms of humanity as found:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/2010/12/101222-new-human-species-dna-nature-science-evolution-fossil-finger/In regards to the “mystical mushroom tree” scenario, it is very weak argument and you should look it over again. Reinforce it, if you can.
My apologies, it was not meant as an argument. It was me offering a hypothetical situation in order to show where the roots of religion stem from in my mind. We all know that stories grow over time and tellings, one primitive human hopped up on psychedelics and thinking about a tree that feeds them may well have a ‘religious experience’ and thus the story begins and grows over thousands of years.
There is no solid logic or proof for evolution
I honestly see less solid logic or proof in regards to creation.
You “look to disprove” yourself. If you are being honest, then for all intents and purposes this conversation will probably be the most helpful in reaching your end goal.
I am honest and it is quite a fascinating discourse. Religion is one of the few things I happen to know extremely well and can discuss it indefinitely and I admit I’m not as well versed in evolution; I know the basic guidelines and make extrapolations based on my logic. If and when I’m wrong, I alter my view and carry on knowing that as each day goes by, I’m a bit smarter from what I have learned and not stuck in a dogma of beliefs and practices.
"If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds' worth of distance run,"
Whoa Cap you’re brutal man I wanted to say that, but held back xD !
I do not recall pushing religion on you. I simply stated, at least hopefully, that it is a part of human existence and is not an evil. I’ll again state that I do not agree with evolution simply because it does not make sense. There are religions that accept it as possible. Me disagreeing with evolution does not imply I am pushing any form of religion on you.
I think you misunderstood the whole “My argument is now part of your reality, a new set of experiences. If we are still following your logic” point. I am simply saying you viewpoint is contradictory. It literally has nothing to do with religion.
“To put it rather crassly, religion is a method of control and power. You can call me cynical for thinking that but I hope you can at least understand where I come from when I say that”
Actually I do understand where you are coming from. It is not cynical at all. But you have to understand that almost every religion and philosophy is about control and power. MGTOW is about control and power. What separates one religion/philosophy from another is how that power is delegated. Your point is absolutely correct, I have no disagreement with it what so ever. However as I said, that concept applies to all religions and philosophies. Hell, it applies to everyday life. And because it applies to all religions and philosophies it must also be applied to evolution.
This is why evolution falls short. All the theory of evolution attempts to do is explain the diversity of life not the cause of it. That is all. It is a theory about diversity. It has nothing to do about explaining life itself or any deep metaphysical. It has nothing to do with religion or the lack of it. However, modern culture seeks to place it on a pedestal to explain anything. It is a theory about diversity. Nothing more, nothing less.
The reason I believe it was raised to a “be all end all” type of faith is because of the culture it began and stayed in. It started at a strong point in the industrial revolution, when man was changing how he interacted with the environment and his fellow man. This change to industrializing everything is why evolution was a go to philosophy/religion for people who supported the modern world. It acted as a reasoning mechanism and justification to create a society that devalued some human lives over others. Machines took the place of what use to be workers, and those who survived this industrialization rationed that evolution was to blame.
The cult like fascination with evolution is more about the culture that promotes it and less about the natural world.
“dog is not a wolf, nor is it a dingo, nor a jackal”
A wolf, dingo, and a jackal are all forms of dogs though. They can interbreed and the offspring survive. Humans and monkeys/apes cannot interbreed with surviving offspring.
“I agree, time is a fascinating subject but I dont quite understand your underlying points in regards to time being linear and how that is to do with religion?”
It has nothing to do with religion in my argument. I will repeat it again:
The theory of evolution requires a linear translation of time. On thing leads to the next etc. In other words time has to move in a line and in a sense is subject to a form [such as a line]. However, time is a measurement of movements and that in itself is abstract and cannot lend itself to a form. The western translation of time is wrong. Well, lets say for the sake of argument it is. Evolution cannot exist because it is dependent on a linear translation of time. Evolution can only exist if time is linear, other wise it is possible that “pre-human” might exist now and/or in the future again. If they exist now and or in the future then evolution is unnecessary for survival.
This is a crucial point that one cannot get past when it comes to evolution. If you decide to respond please respond to this point first and foremost. It has nothing to do at all with religion.
“I think the definition of ‘most highly evolved’ is more along the lines of ‘most complex organism yet retains survivability’”
Then why are “complex” organisms always seeking efficiency? If complexity does not promote survivability what is the point of being complex? Adapting to survive is different than adapting to be complex. This argument is now diverging in some other direction than evolution. Evolution is about adapting to survive, not adapting to be complex.
“I honestly see less solid logic or proof in regards to creation.”
For the record I am sensing some hostility towards religious people. I do not like most religious people I meet either. I think most are narcissistic/mentally-ill/ and stupid to say the least. I think we can share the same view point on how we feel towards religious people. We have common ground there, I believe. With that being said my dislike for a people or set of beliefs does not mean their is not a creator or not a right religion/etc. It simply means I do not like that people or their belief system. That is all. I think we can agree there at least.
In regards to creation theory it is a theory just like evolution. Although I agree with what I heard about it I do not know it. Creationism, if I understand correctly is not about proving whether a God/gods exist but rather how the know world was created. There is no logical argument proving or disproving God or a God/gods. Anyone who says he can prove God’s existence is full of himself. Anyone who says that he can prove God does not exist is full of himself. Logic, by its very nature, does not have the capacity to do either. It is limited by its own nature in this regard. Belief in God is more a matter of the heart. Not in the sense of some transient feeling or being “enlightened” but rather something beyond any of those. It is something almost beyond belief itself.
“I’m a bit smarter from what I have learned and not stuck in a dogma of beliefs and practices.”
Dogma is a set of beliefs and/or practices. Even atheist and agnostics cannot avoid them. Their is nothing wrong with possessing a dogma/dogmas. It is natural to the human existence. It is more open minded to say something is possible rather than impossible.
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