Great video, Mgtows must see! (IMO)

[Anonymous 1]

So, this video was posted at the some PUA critique thread, but I think this is a fundamental video for all MGTOW to see, so I made a thread for it

Here is the video:

It raises the question “What is an alpha?” from a philosophical point of view, and I have to admit, after seeing this video, I am sooo THANKFUL I’m not an alpha.

That’s my take on it.

Enjoy.

[Ned TrentParticipant 4894]

Wow BadKan, thank you very much for posting that video. I mean seriously, most of the lines of thoughts presented in there I can very well comprehend. Furthermore some of them I even molded in my mind before, hence they actually turned out to almost be subconsciously known to me, despite the fact that I never considered myself an alpha male at all ever, looking back upon my life this far. Then again by now I consider myself in a way wise and/or intelligent and/or intellectual enough, that I could become some form of an “alpha male” kind of person, but only in part as I would deem enough for myself and not too much (as in over the top so to speak, since I almost intuitively would not regard it as being necessary). And the very aspects that the creator of this video pointed out speak for themselves, too (quote): “the problem of being an alpha male is being an alpha male” or in other words: he who could rise up high can equally drop down again from equivalent height eventually. Now that very notion gives me enough strength to go like: “Ah well, even if I happened to develop into an alpha male, what’s the point…?” Also in part, because I don’t consider myself ever having children or putting them into this (crazy) world respectively. Equally, meanwhile I find myself strong enough to no longer be scared of death itself (although having respect of it as it were), should it ever occur to me as an accident, a stroke a heart attack or whatever like any fairly natural cause of death as opposed to a committed suicide which I would never (actively) do. The reason for that being that my father did that almost almost two and a half decades ago, after he basically and ultimately had succumb to his quite harmony loving blue pill mangina mentality, which I may have had, too some decades ago but by now have totally abandoned. Oh no, ever since my father did that, I tend to tell myself: “Well, life is or at least can be a bit of a struggle at any given time but at the end of the day it’s what you make it and in all of its occasional harshness is still worth a fight until the very end for me. And yes, sure enough you could say that life itself has hardened me and I shall hopefully have learned quite enough from all of the different aspects of possible alpha male options from all the three sections, mentioned in that video such as the intelligent the executive and the physical aristocracy and ideally trying to balance them all out in myself in a sensible overall dosage, as I said earlier not too much of it…    … now, that will altogether be my aspired goal and keep all my senses peeled towards society and all of its partly obvious lunacy observed along the way. In a nutshell that would be how I would measure my own level of success as a MGHOW.

 

Ned T.

I'd rather die a natual death with a clear MGTOW conscience somewhere off the grid than one within "modern" civilisation with a big stress mark on my forehead and a couple of dozen tubes plugged into my body. Back to the plantation..? Me..? Hey, literally: I won't ever fucking kid myself...YZERLMNTSIC

[narwhalParticipant]

To me, there are way too many assumptions and extrapolations in this and reads way too much like a horoscope.  By that I mean that the statements are believable because the audience wants it to be true (that being alpha isn’t that great and he will lose in the end), and doesn’t really provide any real basis in reality. An alpha is a hedonist?  Really?  Not saying that it isn’t possible or common, but just because you’re the high school football captain doesn’t mean you are all about your pleasure only.   As well, hedonism is not a trait exclusive to the alpha male, not by a long shot.

The alpha has no capacity for dealing with shame, but the beta has learned to deal with shame from experience?  No, I don’t see the connection at all.    When faced with failure, you have the choice to persevere or to quit and find an arena where failure is less likely.   I’m not saying either choice is better, since the game is often rigged,  but I don’t see how you could predict the outcome knowing whether the man has been labeled alpha or beta.

You are your own man capable of facing all the challenges you may face.  You are not predisposition-ed to fail or succeed based on what category others place you in.  You are capable of seeing the truth, and that will set you free.

 

Ok. Then do it.

[Anonymous 1]

Dammit!

I had such a freaking good response to @scubasteve. I think you missed a lot of points on the video.

Freaking 15 minutes typing and lost everything.

Going to try type everything again later, but not now.

I will be back…

[Anonymous 27]

Ya of course BadKan, you’ll clear it right up for him eh? Forcing your opinion on people again..sounds like what you tried to do to me with your misconstrune, highly questionable, and fabricated arguement, and I’ve seen you do in other threads..maybe that’s scubasteve’s opinion, and that’s fine, guess what it’s different than yours, and that’s fine too…and talking s~~~ again “I think you missed a lot of points in the video”..maybe you missed the f~~~in point, not everyone sees things your way..period.

[Anonymous 1]

@Dolla_D

Are we going to have a problem here? Look, if you don’t like to debate, fine, it’s your freaking problem. I happen to like exposing my point of view towards some opposing views, its called constructive criticism. You want drama go somewhere else. You want to conform to the group instead of reach truth through debate, go talk to women. I have debates to sharp my mind, and I expose my arguments to test my theories. If you don’t like that you are welcome to walk away.

In a nutshell: F~~~ Off.

[ExsliventxsParticipant 1067]

@Dolla_D

There is no reason to project your frustrations onto scubasteve, I’m sure he’s a big boy and he can defend himself. Also, since BadKan started this thread he holds sufficient authority to steer the discussion. (Anyone really has this right, but the OP holds it a bit moreso.)

If you know someone you have a problem with starts a thread, and you feel a problem will develop, just avoid his threads.

There is NO reason to feel PERSONALLY attacked on the internet, this is mainly because no one knows who you are… personally.. on this site. (Or at least they shouldn’t if you followed the guidelines.)

Everyone just reeeelaaax…..

 

[Anonymous 1]

@scubasteve

So I re-wrote my pseudo response to you. This was more of an exercise for me to write down my perceptions of the video, so if you think it is too long to read, or if you are too sensitive to others opinion, feel free to skip this. I will not be offended if you don’t feel like answering/reading this.

 

If anyone else have any input on the arguments I put forward, feel free to comment or correct me on any fallacy I may have committed.

 

Anyway, to the critique, if I may:

narwhal wrote:

To me, there are way too many assumptions and extrapolations in this and reads way too much like a horoscope.

Well, I think that is the nature of philosophy, wouldn’t you agree? Philosophy, as far my understanding goes, deals with abstract subjects, so assumptions and extrapolations are part of the deal. As far as there is no intellectual falacy, which I don’t think there were any on the author’s part on this video, we can learn a lot from them.

narwhal wrote:

By that I mean that the statements are believable because the audience wants it to be true (that being alpha isn’t that great and he will lose in the end), and doesn’t really provide any real basis in reality

Here is how I see this. In order to get their shin’s stronger, a muay thai fighter will do some shin conditioning, where he will cause micri-fissures in the bone. The body will then form a calcium layer on top of that, stronger than before. Bodybuilders do a similar thing regarding muscle growth. By training pulling weights, their body produce acid lactic which burns away a layer of muscle. When resting, the body rebuilds that layer, except thicker and stronger. If the human body reacts this way regarding adversities, would it be too far fetched to assume that the same thing happens with the human mind? Therefore, I think there IS a ground on reality to what the author is relying upon (although if this was his way of thinking I cannot say).

narwhal wrote:

An alpha is a hedonist? Really? Not saying that it isn’t possible or common, but just because you’re the high school football captain doesn’t mean you are all about your pleasure only. As well, hedonism is not a trait exclusive to the alpha male, not by a long shot.

Here is where I believe your misconceptions (or what I think are your misconceptions) are coming from. You are focusing too much on football captain and, what I assume, YOUR definition of ALPHA. Remember, in the video, this statement was not just thrown out there from nowhere. There were a line of logic defining what an alpha, for the sake of the argument of the video, was. And from there why an alpha, as defined by the line of logic proposed, would be a  hedonism. First, the definition of alpha as described here, took in consideration that, in life, there are winners and losers. Alphas being the ones that win more than lose. Furthermore, by this definition alone, there would several types of alphas. The ones mentioned on the video would be the alpha regarding physique (example: the football captain), the alpha regarding money/status (example: the businessman) and the alpha regarding knowledge (example: the scholar). Despite all these definitions, not all of these are considered alpha by women. On their primal instincts, the physique alpha (a.k.a: football captain), since his “assets” are more evident and the benefits are more readily available. So THIS is the alpha that this assumption is taking in consideration. The video even goes to say that it is not to say that a football captain is dumb, but what he is known and required for are not his brains, but his physique. Besides, as far as I can say, the example of a football captain if more likely to be easier for people to visualize an example of what someone in their peak of physical strength would look like.

From there then you can assume that, since the physique alpha’s rewards are derived from his physical prowess, those rewards would also be in the physical form, a.k.a,: physical pleasure. Specially if you consider that this is the type of alpha with more access to women, since those are the traits that women instinctively look for. If we assume that, then it is natural that the abstract world will be of no use/interest for the alpha (as described here) and therefore he would become a  hedonism. So it is not that it came out of nowhere, there was a line of thoght that was actually, in my opinion, well constructed.

If I may, I would guess that you took it personally because you are either one of those: a football player, someone with a good physique, someone that somehow fits on the alpha category as a leader. I wouldn’t take it that way though. What you may consider an alpha (and therefore, I assume, yourself) is not what the video is considering an apha. I will come back to this later.

narwhal wrote:

The alpha has no capacity for dealing with shame, but the beta has learned to deal with shame from experience? No, I don’t see the connection at all. When faced with failure, you have the choice to persevere or to quit and find an arena where failure is less likely. I’m not saying either choice is better, since the game is often rigged, but I don’t see how you could predict the outcome knowing whether the man has been labeled alpha or beta.

This was actually covered in the video. The author actually mentioned, at one point that having many options and having no options but being desperate means that one will necessarily fail while the other will succeed. In fact he stated that both are capable of poor choices, just for different reasons. Lets look at the the alpha, the one with lots of choices regarding women.

A alpha, as stated previously, would have received praise all his life. Taking in consideration what I mentioned on the beginning of the post, about the body adapting to adverse conditions, wouldn’t you agree that the mind is the same? By receiving praise and little to no shame, don’t you think that the alpha would not have developed a resistance to such tactic. And as such, as life goes on, the alpha would realize that he cannot win forever, and so he decides to quit, by marrying. And doing that he seals his fate. Since the physical pleasures are to known to him, you could assume that, at certain point, he would want something more, something abstract: love. However, remember, in this hypothetical scenario, our alpha’s assets are not abstracts concepts, like status and/or intelligence, are physical ones. Hence, her partner probably choose him for these qualities, and since he has little to no experience on the abstract, he probably choose her for the same thing, since the physical come naturally to him, making him shallow. You want a real life example? Women. Why do you think they are so sensitive to critique? Women are pandered all their lives. They are praised for their physical attributes, because those come naturally to them, so is it surprising that their mind are so shallow to only consider what they see? Only the physical world? Is it wonder that THEY are so sensitive to shame? Ban BOSSY anyone?

The desperate beta has another type of problem. The lack of choices might forced him to look for more than the physical beauty, so his choice might be a better one then the alpha’s, since he might have picked up aspects that the alpha missed. (Again, MEN that are lower in status then WOMEN, are invisible to them. Ring any bell?). However, this also makes him settle with the first suitable choice is presented to him. Shame might not be his weakness, since he is used to it, but JEALOUSY is. Since he never had many choices to begin with, the ones the are presented to him will make him extremely vulnerable to jealousy.

So there you have it. That’s why our hypothetical alpha would be ill equipped to deal with shame and the beta wouldn’t. In fact, I think that in the end, the ones that the video refer to as better dealing with shame are not even betas, but MGTOWs. He doesn’t mention the acronym, but the only time he compares alpha to beta, is when describing the situation I did on the last paragraph, and even than is to say that the beta has as bad decision making as the alpha, it’s just his motivation that is different.

Also, you missed the third option. You can persevere (keep playing the “Game”), get married (quit) or not play at all (Mgtow).

narwhal wrote:

You are your own man capable of facing all the challenges you may face. You are not predisposition-ed to fail or succeed based on what category others place you in. You are capable of seeing the truth, and that will set you free.

I agree. but that’s not what the video is about. We are discussing how outside FORCES (not LABELS) can influence your way thinking and acting. And we are discussing how real is the “LUCK” of the ALPHA as DETERMINED BY THE FEMALE.

And this is the final point I want to make. Remember when I said not to take the alpha thing seriously? Yeah, its because this alpha and beta labels are determined by women. And in order to be considered alpha by them, it’s not about just being physically fit, but mentally dull. How many guys here, had sex with a bunch of women, and they still went MGTOW? They wouldn’t be considered alpha’s by the video definition, because although they might have the body, their mind were craving for more then the shallow appearances of women, and their will were strong enough not to bend to shame. And if you are like that, sorry to break it to you, you are not alpha, you are MGTOW. 🙂

Cheers

[Anonymous 1]

Exsliventxs wrote:

I’m sure he’s a big boy and he can defend himself

Dude, I was not even calling out @scubasteve. I posted as somewhat sarcasm. I did spent 15 minutes (well, maybe not that much, but still) writing a response, and it was actually pretty good. So when it got lost I was frustrated and I posted the “Daamit!” post as a joke/venting. I will be really surprised (and disappointed) if @scubasteve actually got offended by it!

I re-wrote the response I did as polite and as “caring” as I could, as to not hurt anyone’s feelings. Because apparently some people cannot handle criticism. But hey, if it is too much, they are welcome to ignore my posts.

If this becomes a freaking echo-chamber though, I am leaving.

Not threatening anything, I am just stating what my standards are.

Respect doesn’t mean conformity.

Besides, Dolla_D got butt hurt from a criticism I made from one of his videos. I was actually looking forward for is rebuttal, but in the end it was just crying.

Anyway, trying to minimize the drama.

Cheers

[Cipher HighwindParticipant 1144]

I view it from a risk-reward standpoint:

Without conceding the validity of categorising people via Greek letters, those considered “alpha” are taking greater and more severe risks.  They’re the ones waltzing in to the minefield of relations~~~s and getting their legs blown off when the cheerleader or whoever gets pregnant. As was the case with the Duke lacrosse team, one t~~~ cried rape and a whole team of putative alpha men got in legal trouble.

The rewards are fleeting as the benefits that accrue to them, most notably their sexual marketplace value, fade with their youth.

Frankly, I pity the fools.

[ExsliventxsParticipant 1067]

Anonymous wrote:

Dude, I was not even calling out @scubasteve

Oh I’m well aware you weren’t calling him out. I was merely stating the obvious; he can defend himself if need be. =)

This wasn’t so much directed at you, as others, which is why it had an @ sign.

[Anonymous 1]

@Cipher Highwind

I agree. What I though it was interesting though was the idea that, by being “praised” as an alpha, these men are actually getting hurt on the long run. And I saw this happen on other areas, but it never occurred to me it could happen when it came to women. The more “talented” were the people around me, the weaker was their willpower, when it came to adversities. I never had it easy, so I tried to develop one thing: willpower. At least regarding to what I want for me. And I only did that BECAUSE I never had it EASY. So I think it would be totally possible if the same thing happened with the “alphas”, the ones that are popular and get all the chicks, and receive all the praise. They might as well be so unaccustomed to criticism, that became  “weaker” when it comes to shame. It is not impossible for them to break free, but from what I read here, and from my personal experience, it is really hard to change when you have it good.

[Author]

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