Got sound investing advice, when graduating from my CCW course.

[LurchParticipant 3866]

Just completed my CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) course, to get my licence. At the end of the day, the instructor gave some invaluable investment advice, which really made sense.

He said…

“Do you want to make an investment with Zero risk and a guaranteed return? Go buy yourself a crate of 9mm or 5.56x45mm/223 ammo!”

We were all puzzled, but he went on to explain…

“Ammo prices are always rising over time. The cartridges will last for decades and when social order collapses and we are wiping our arses with 20 dollar bills, do you think people will want to trade for little bits of gold?

Of course not, what the f~~~ are you going to do with a speck of gold to stay alive. Now a box of ammo, THAT’S something people are always going to need! When we are all bartering for food, water, clothing, you offer a box of 9mm or 223/5.56 ammo and they will give you ANYTHING for it!”

Which when you think of how common AR15 rilfes and 9mm pistols are these days, that makes a hell of a lot of sense.

I would also extend this advise to .22LR ammo as well, since most people will keep a .22 rifle somewhere in the house. The .22LR cartage is also cheap to buy, which explains why it’s typically the first ammo to go out of stock in your local gun store. So if you are just starting out building your ammo trading stockpile and want to keep the cost low, you can buy this first and move up to the 9mm and 5.56/223 ammo later.

Taking this advise further he also went onto explain if you are going to purchase a firearm, consider something that uses 9mm or 5.56×45/223 rounds. Again because how common these weapons are, there is a LOT of ammo on the market so finding reloads is far easier for these calibers.

I wish I knew this before I got my CCW pistol, which fires .40 S&W rounds. 🙁 Oh well, maybe on my next purchase.

To recap, when selecting firearms consider how easy it is to get the ammo for it. Firearm with no ammo = no BLAMO!

From most to least common:

1. 5.56×45/223
2. 9mm
3. .22LR
4. .45 ACP
5. .40 S&W

Please Note: I am not sure where the .38, .380 ACP and the many other types may sit on this list, so if anybody has ideas on the top 10 most common types of ammo available, please post here and we can build an “best investment” list of ammo we can use, to build our trading stockpiles for the collapse that I keep hearing is coming.

Blue-Pill Virgin: Women hate me! That's what it is.
MGTOW Man: Hate them back; it works for me.

[Anonymous 42]

Agreed, when you’re the only guy with ammo just point it at anyone and they’ll do exactly what you say!

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

.22 LR is solely for sport shooting.

When is comes for power versus ammo, the debate is between the .45 ACP and the 9mm. The 45 ACP has more stopping power, but the 9mm holds more ammo and is a little weaker on its stopping power. By stopping power, I mean, if the bullet do not go through, it will not a full grown man down. That is what the .45 ACP is designed to do.

Now, for pistols. I highly suggest a semi-automatic. A .45 pistol can hold around 8 rounds in a magazine. A 9mm can hold between 14 to 16 rounds in a magazine, depending on the type of pistol.

Get a pistol a little weight, but is small enough to concealable. The lighter the pistol, the more recoil it will have.

I suggest any .45 based on the M1911 model style. That design is considered one of the best designs for a semi-automatic pistol. But, I would suggest a more newer .45 model with a dec~~~er function on the safety.

When you pick a pistol, practice with it. But, be careful. Keep shooting it over the course of weeks to months. 50 to 200 hundred rounds per time at the shooting range. Until you are comfortable shooting it.

And learn about your pistol. Take care of your pistol. Learn to take it apart. REMOVE ALL AMMUNITION AND DISARM THE PISTOL BEFORE TRYING TO TAKE IT APART! Youtube has some good videos on this. And you need some cleaning tools and gun oil, or gun spray can. This stuff is flammable. Make sure to wipe down all the oil and wait until the next day to fire the gun. And you clean the gun between 150 rounds fired to 250 rounds.

Now, good luck.

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

Discretion is the better part of valor.

There is no shame in running. In fact a duty to retreat is part of my ccw.

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Jan Sobieski wrote:

There is no shame in running. In fact a duty to retreat is part of my ccw.

That means you might be shot in the back by those you are running from.

You need to learn if your state has “stand your ground” laws. And what those laws entail.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Faust For Science wrote:

By stopping power, I mean, if the bullet do not go through, it will not a full grown man down. That is what the .45 ACP is designed to do.

The stopping power debate lives on.

They say if you’ve reverted to defending yourself with a handgun, you’re already dead. What most people really want is a 12ga shotgun. With loads ranging from bird shot to slugs, you get a wide variety of response profiles on a single, reliable and naturally intimidating platform.

When it comes to handguns, I’d say 9mm for the win for most people. Ammo capacity is the key here… although a .45 is probably going to be more accurate due to its weight, most people just aren’t going to be that good a shot in a stressful situation and will probably need the higher capacity of a double stacked 9mm.

Also the 9mm cartridge is designed to penetrate and so will be more effective against lightly armored targets, almost certainly dumping all of its energy into a target after passing through several layers of clothing just the same as a slower .45 round would do to an unarmored target.

When you do the mass x speed calculation, both rounds pack pretty much the same amount of force, so unless you’re shooting at a naked block of ballistic gel, the higher velocity and greater ammo capacity of the 9mm is going to be your best bet… assuming the shotgun doesn’t do the job for you first.

[hellraiderParticipant 2837]

Yup, but unfortunately in europe gun ownership is getting more and more difficult every day.

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Stargazer wrote:

They say if you’ve reverted to defending yourself with a handgun, you’re already dead.

Those that say that likely never held a gun in this life. I hear about one article after another, in local and state news about how a person have a gun was able to use that gun to protect their self.

Stargazer wrote:

Also the 9mm cartridge is designed to penetrate and so will be more effective against lightly armored targets, almost certainly dumping all of its energy into a target after passing through several layers of clothing just the same as a slower .45 round would do to an unarmored target.

And that is the catch on penetration. When you fire a gun you not only have to think about what you are firing at, but what it behind your target when firing. Especially, in a home environment.

Also, I think you are confusing ammunition. 9mm is just a step down version of the .45 ACP. The 9mm bullet does not have a bottle-neck design, and it does not travel much faster, nor further, than a .45 ACP.

You might be thinking of bottleneck bullets such as the 7.62×25mm that such pistols as the T-33 Tokarev semi-automatic pistol fires. Bullets with a bottleneck are designed for armor penetration. This goes all the way up to the bottleneck .50 caliber round.

I have fired all three types of pistol ammunition listed above. Several times. The 9mm has the weakest recoil and flash. The .45 is the middle, and is not much more powerful in recoil and flash than the 9mm. But, the 7.62x25mm bullet has a much more powerful recoil and a much brighter flash of light than the 9mm and .45 ACP.

[BubParticipant 1403]

Faust For Science wrote:

Doc Fenderson wrote:

They say if you’ve reverted to defending yourself with a handgun, you’re already dead.

Those that say that likely never held a gun in this life. I hear about one article after another, in local and state news about how a person have a gun was able to use that gun to protect their self.

Handguns are only good to get you back to your long gun, which you shouldn’t have left behind to start with..

When selecting a caliber for a pistol, or long gun, I suggest you go to your closest Walmart and see what ammo they carry on their shelf. These are the most popular, hence most available ammo.

Also… 40 S$W is a popular caliber developed for the FBI in the 80’s if I remember correctly. It is a hybrid of the 9mm and 45 ACP. 40SW is a “snappy” round and takes practice (as all calibers do) to gain proficiency.

The 40SW was/is a popular law enforcement caliber although I have read that many local forces are switching to 9mm currently, which makes some sense since the 38 was always a very popular LEO gun.

Just rolling down the road

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Faust For Science wrote:

Those that say that likely never held a gun in this life. I hear about one article after another, in local and state news about how a person have a gun was able to use that gun to protect their self.

I was making a point about relying on a handgun versus a long gun in a home defense situation. Given a shotgun with your choice of load or a handgun chambered in either 9mm or .45, which would you choose?

Regarding being “already dead” by the time you revert to a handgun, I meant that from a military perspective. Here’s an article that makes that point in long form.

https://www.quora.com/Does-the-military-use-handguns-in-combat-If-so-why

Re: 9mm vs .45 it is my understanding that the velocity of the 9mm Luger round can be 300fps or more higher than the typical .45acp round. It’s not just a smaller bullet, it’s a faster one, though with roughly equal energy on impact. Of course I’m wildly generalizing here, if you have documentation to the contrary, please cite it.

As for penetration power, how much of it you want depends on what you’re shooting at. You may be firing at unarmored thugs from close up in a thin walled building or crowded space so for you the .45acp may be the ideal choice whereas I expect if I find myself in a situation where I’m going to have to fire at a person that they’re going to be further away and wearing some sort of center mass armor so I may want a lighter, higher velocity round with more penetrating ability and less drop over distance.

Obviously no single round is ideal for every situation, which is why there are so many of them.

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Stargazer wrote:

I was making a point about relying on a handgun versus a long gun in a home defense situation. Given a shotgun with your choice of load or a handgun chambered in either 9mm or .45, which would you choose?

I prefer .45 ACP. But, that is just my personal preference. Fine a pistol of either of those calibers that suits and practice with that.

Stargazer wrote:

Regarding being “already dead” by the time you revert to a handgun, I meant that from a military perspective. Here’s an article that makes that point in long form.

Only in the conventional form of combat.

Pistols are wonderful in guerrilla warfare.

Look up the history of the FP-45 Liberator pistol. The pistol itself was a piece of crap. But, during WW II the U.S. produced tens of thousands of these pistols and dropped them all over occupied Europe, while the pistols were loaded.

The logic was to use the pistol to kill an unsuspecting German soldier, and steal that soldiers rifle and ammunition. That tactic actually worked, on occasion.

[Big BossParticipant 4496]

Lurch wrote:

“Ammo prices are always rising over time. The cartridges will last for decades and when social order collapses and we are wiping our arses with 20 dollar bills, do you think people will want to trade for little bits of gold?

First, I love his advice, but he’s just a tad off on precious metals part. First, what if you need oranges or livestock from a farmer that already has plenty of ammo because his farm produces food and people are all trading him 5.56 for his AR? Then the value of your ammo may collapse.

Ammo is an awesome barter good, but it isn’t money. Silver tends to be the most important coin because it is transferable to everyday types of buying. Gold however is for serious purchases like land, a whole tractor, or home. So you won’t see it traded often.

Silver and gold however aren’t investments. They are money. So you are ensuring the value of your currency by buying it like insurance in a way.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

Faust For Science wrote:

The logic was to use the pistol to kill an unsuspecting German soldier, and steal that soldiers rifle and ammunition. That tactic actually worked, on occasion.

Bit of a reach, isn’t it? Fine, I’ll take the shotgun with buck shot for my home defense and you can use a crap pistol to try to steal the guns and ammo away from your home invaders.

See, theres a firearm and tactic for everybody! Some may be more effective than others but we’ll leave it up to reality to be the final arbiter.

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