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Deadly Raver 3 years, 10 months ago.
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Hello, gentlemen! ‘Tis the first day of spring, love is carried on the pollen of amorous bees, or some s~~~ like that.
Back when I was 18-19 (i.e., 3-4 years ago), finding female company was quite an important issue to me, along with languages, video games, writing, school, and whatever hobbies I happened to occupy myself with. It is my wont that whenever I feel something is super important to me, I half-ass nothing, I go for it till I have it, whether it is forcing myself to study my verb tables, try that hard level over again, write and write and write, study till I get it, etc. For the vast majority of things, this attitude has served me quite well; and I can with confidence say that, with this attitude, there is, truly, no important part of my life that is insufficient and with which I’m unsatisfied . . .
Videlicet, no part, save that for women. When I was 18-19 (even 20-21), since finding a woman was so important to me, I took every effort to make relationships with women. If there was a pretty girl in my vicinity, I’d feel it incumbent upon myself to go and talk to her, and hope that something happened. But, always at best, they were just conversations; and, at worst, I would be treated like absolute crap just when I thought things were going well.
All of my efforts were in vain. ALL. And not only that, but they worked only to make me unhappy. Thus passed four years of college, sexless and alone, save for a really brief fling, which, ironically enough, required almost no effort on my part (a story, perhaps, for later), a wondrous time that, being, as it were, a fluke of serendipity, I reckon will maybe happen once every twenty years if I’m lucky.
Now, four years later, having just gotten my iron ring (woo), I still consider having a woman just as important, but now I can no longer summon up the will to make an effort with them; it all seems just seems so fruitless, supplicating, and humiliating.
“Then don’t make the effort,” some of you will say. Yes, this is a possibility, I could do that; but we, as men, are, naturally, the initiators, the doers, the ones that make the effort. You all know that if men don’t make the effort, stuff does not get done. Thus, if I, as a man, never make the effort, then the only thing I can count on are flukes like the one I mentioned, a less than appealing prospect.
Nowadays, when I see a pretty girl, I think “yeah, it’d be cool if she were into me, I guess,” but rarely can I make the effort anymore. But now my body screams at me “Rock, look at everything you’ve accomplished with the effort you’ve made with other things; if you don’t make the effort here, what do you expect to happen?” In short, I’ve acquired a sort of guilt toward myself.
Is anyone else exhausted? How do you cope? The usual remedies, I take it (e.g. porn, video games, etc)?
TL;DR: Used to make an effort with women, got fed up, don’t make an effort anymore, feel that that will only exacerbate the problem
". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée
Love it.
Also, you were an awesome MAN of the day.
Thanks for being here!
Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.
Anonymous0Hey. This is a thoughtful thread and I like your writing style, brother. Any chance you entertain yourself a writer? I sure do. (Mind you, in German. My English vernacular is not on par with my German.)
Anyway – you laid out some real problem, and I felt compelled to answer, not just because it was a concise expression of your thoughts, but also because I feel the same.
Given that you are here on MGTOW, talking to other MGTOW, constantly checking your reality that way, I am sure that you must by now have understood that entering a relationship is kind of like a sane man’s relationship with any drug. Nice to be drunk sometimes, but ultimately you should not fall for it.
Women are like that: Nice to have, but ultimately poisonous as long you cannot hold your frame.
An example. A while ago I was talking up this mexican chick who was going to study in a town in Germany near me. I started out as the master of my frame, constantly teasing her and keeping her on her toes. This is what keeps your woman in check, forget all about mutual respect – she will respect you and you can entertain the idea of respect for whatever good qualities she has if you can hold your frame.
Anyway, I slipped. I must admit I am weak and reading too many novels formed up some romantic ideal in my head – Call it Bovarism. She lost interest shortly after that even though just a few days before that she had told me in detail all the ways she would let (and yes, the key word is “let”, eughhh) me defile her.
To earn a woman’s respect and adoration you have to be the sovereign master of your fate as well as hers to an extent. I take that this is understood, but I had to reiterate because it leads to my point.
As of a few days ago, I am a 26 year old man. I do not have time for the childish hoops that women hold up to me and call “dating” – on the contrary. I will act on my need when given. I would advise you to evaluate your place in society as well as your needs and act accordingly. If you want a girlfriend, you need to be sure she will never be more than that and by Jove, never let her move in. Find a compromise in having a relationship without handing her your b~~~~ on a silver platter.
Anyway. What you want is up to you to decide, not society or anyone else. We all have human needs, and they can be met, but in the current climate we as men have to be very careful about how we still these urges.
Me personally? I don’t date anymore at the moment. This is a scheduled downtime of my dick except for porn. I am bipolar, and in my manic phases holding frame is easy as cake, but when I am depressive, it becomes an unbearable chore.
Overall, I want you to understand that it is you who is the master of your fate, and as such I can only offer you my view – which is: If you feel the need to meet women, then do so. Keep your reality checked, have fun, but never date because someone expects it of you. Nothing good can come from that.
Fin
In short, I’ve acquired a sort of guilt toward myself.
I think this guilt is misplaced. You are not at fault for the way women are. You were thrown into this situation without a choice. I think you have enough dignity and self respect not to put yourself in a meat grinder. That is something to take pride in.
I still consider having a woman just as important, but now I can no longer summon up the will to make an effort with them; it all seems just seems so fruitless, supplicating, and humiliating.
That’s because it is. Once a man realizes the nature of women, I don’t think things are ever the same. It’s not an easy thing to grapple with, but the truth will set you free.
I’m still trying to cope with this, somehow, myself. Unfortunately, I don’t have a quick remedy to offer. I think it takes soul searching and work to arrive at any kind of resolution. Just don’t give up your self respect.
If anyone knew a direct answer they’d give it to KM so that he could put it on the first page here.
“You can love women or you can understand women.”
It’s reasonable to understand someone before loving them.Then comes the shift:
You are “successfully” negotiating a maze, turning the last corner, the goal’s in sight.
While you’re running the maze, unbeknownst to you it was being lifted ever higher into the air.Then the whole maze is flipped by a woman pulling a tripwire.
You fall.
For many Aussies and Brits, the lifting of the maze was to lethal heights, they’re dead. (children stolen by female)
For the newer among us, they got mangled and will live with a permanent disease, a ruined reputation, 18 yrs servitude.If you choose to participate in the maze, you’ve got to be aware of how high and fast it’s being lifted. Your shoes are rigged to only move forward or left right but never backward out of it.
Focus too much on getting through the maze, and it’ll have been lifted higher or faster, without you realizing it.
Women control it’s ascent speed and height and the tripwire to flip it.For many, maybe, it won’t be flipped.
For many, it will, too late. They sensed upward acceleration or the air getting thinner.You have some input, not all input.
You’re told the odds perhaps, but not all the stakes.Men love to achieve goals.
Men love to negotiate anything successfully.
However this is not ‘anything’
It is choices left and right to negotiate, but also choices regarding looking at
the whole set up;
upward acceleration and height must be considered as well as who has been permanently given control of the tripwire(s) and whether You want to try it.http://www.uplifting-love.com/2013/08/80-percent-of-divorces-are-filed-by.html
http://budgeting.thenest.com/spouses-debt-marriage-22209.html
http://www.tmz.com/2016/03/17/ralphie-may-divorce-wife-ketubah/
"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."
Anonymous0Bunker Mode, not everyone wants to go your way, even though I greatly respect your decision to abdict women under any circumstances. Yet, you admitted: You were once a young stag, and so are we. What is a stag that cannot shake his horns off once in a while? 😉
But this shaking of the horns takes the dedication of delving into enemy territory, so to say. Women are not per se evil, not all of them. They are hypergamous by nature, opportunistic by evolution, and tiring to the male mind on all accounts.
As an addendum for Rockmaninoff, in the most disgusting feminist tongue: “YAS! YOU DO YOU!” – But really, do whatever makes YOU grow as a human. For me, that is literature, memes and information. Women are more of a carnal desire (intimacy, companionship, adoration) and as such they need to be enjoyed in small doses. This is what I think, at least. Don’t fall for the NAWALT meme and you’ll be golden. Keep your reality checked. Remember the struggle that other men have shared on this site, and enjoy women cautiously if you want to shake off these horns. AWALT, definitely.
Now go and do as you please, but don’t be a chump.
It all seems just seems so fruitless, supplicating, and humiliating.
ONLY if you let women write the terms and conditions.
When YOU set the terms, it can actually be FUN.
But be prepared because MOST women won’t last – or like it.They think the terms are theirs, but you will not cave. An interaction with women (of any kind) will go exactly the way you want it to, or it will not happen at all. This is not being “controlling” or “dictatorial”, because she can do whatever she wants, but you are setting the terms and boundaries of your life.
When it seems fruitless, supplicating, and humiliating….you are f~~~ing history. You don’t need to accept that s~~~. Ever. It’s just not a good basis for any kind of relationship – including professional.
“Then don’t make the effort,” some of you will say.
You don’t have to make an effort. All you have to do is work on being the guy you always wanted to be. Not “the man she wants”. “Fruitless, supplicating, and humiliating” is tossing the guy you wanted to be away to be the man she wants.
Remember: It’s Rock-man-in-off.
Rock-“man-enough?” is fruitless, supplicating, and humiliating.
“Rock, look at everything you’ve accomplished with the effort you’ve made with other things; if you don’t make the effort here, what do you expect to happen?”
That’s exactly right.
Except Don’t think of women or female attention/affection as a “reward” for any effort.
Women are not like investing time in your car or your music – where you will get out what you put in. The car will always turn on and start reliably if you maintain it properly and “love” it. Can’t say the same about a woman. She’s an unfinished symphony that will blow away with a random breeze. A temporary pleasure at best.
Is anyone else exhausted?
A solid commitment to going your own way (at 22) is not expected. My first thoughts of “going my own way” and seriously not bothering (with women) anymore came around 32. And wouldn’t you know, that’s EXACTLY when women started coming after me – with seemingly no effort.
“Fed up” and exhausted at 22 is culturally a new thing.
Truly, no important part of my life that is insufficient and with which I’m unsatisfied… Videlicet, no part, save that for women.
OK now I jest….
WHAT?! Women don’t exist to satisfy YOU!! Are you high? You exist to satisfy and serve HER!! In fact, with a woman in your life, when you wake up in the morning, you can just look yourself in the mirror and say:
“FFFUUUUCCCCCK YOU!!! F~~~ YOUR HOPES!! F~~~ YOUR DREAMS!! F~~~ YOUR PLANS!!! F~~~ EVERYTHING YOU THOUGHT THIS LIFE WAS EVER GONNA BRING YOU!!! NOW LET’S GO OUT THERE AND TRY TO MAKE THIS BITCH HAPPY!!.
An entire HBO audience of millions – male and female – understands this as a universal expectation. So if you think you’re “unsatisfied” in the realm of women now, get comfortable.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.Thank you for responding! I’ll do my best to reply.
Any chance you entertain yourself a writer? I sure do. (Mind you, in German. My English vernacular is not on par with my German.)
Yes! I try to craft my sentences with care.
You write well enough that you could, if you really made the effort, become a composer of English prose, which is truly the most amazing breed of writer. It’s one thing to be a Herman Melville, growing up speaking a language and then becoming a great writer; it’s another thing entirely to be an Ayn Rand or Joseph Conrad, whose writing in a second or even third language is better than most people’s first.
Women are like that: Nice to have, but ultimately poisonous as long you cannot hold your frame.
I don’t disagree, but I suspect that a lot of people, including you, are conflating my desire for female company with “a woman whom I can start a family with and love till death.” Even if women weren’t so incredibly toxic and dangerous, I wouldn’t want kids anyway.
DUDE…YOU CAN HAVE MY WIFE!!!
No thanks. Not looking to get married. Just a little bit of temporary companionship would suffice.
When YOU set the terms, it can actually be FUN.
But be prepared because MOST women won’t last – or like it.That would kind of defeat the purpose a little bit, wouldn’t it? The goal is for me to have fun in addition to someone else’s having my kind of fun with me.
Except Don’t think of women or female attention/affection as a “reward” for any effort.
Women are not like investing time in your car or your music – where you will get out what you put in.
This is a very good point. Never thought it about it this way before.
It’s kind of a tragedy that a man’s natural desire for female attention/affection is the one desire of his life that he cannot satisfy by applying his accustomed, merciless will and drive to it.
". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée
It’s the spring boiling your blood. Up the dosage of red pills.
proud carrier of the 'why?' chromosome
Hey Rock,
I want you to know that it is totally normal to find it hard to get pussy in your late teens to mid 20s. It is frustrating as hell too! The weirdest part of it is the seemingly total lack of a logical reason for the pussy drought.
You seem to be well educated. You’re probably well mannered and have a decent sense of humour too. You’ve got good skills and cool hobbies. Yet, the pussy eludes you. Makes no sense, right?
Well my advice is to accept that it is a normal part of being a young man in this society. If you can accept it is normal then you can work toward letting go. Then you will be on your path to freedom from frustration.
In the meantime, focus on your fitness, money earning, hobbies, and fun things. As you get closer to 30 you will naturally become more attractive to women. This is the advice from all the post-30 men on this forum. After 30 the pussy generally starts falling into their laps.
I know it’s a long time to wait. When you’re young time goes so slow.
The other thing people here are saying is that you currently have the mindset that sex is something you have to earn. Women can pick up on that mindset. It is not attractive to them.
A lot of guys can get laid in their early 20s. But unless they are a hunk of man candy, look at the women they are hooking up with… Most young guys hook up with someone who’s crazy, ugly, a lot younger than them, a slut, fat, low self-esteem, etc. In other words, they end up with a low quality woman who trades her pussy for the man’s attention.
I’ve been there done that. I wish I could just say some magic words to stop you from doing it. But I do know that the testosterone runs strong in you. So, it’s likely that you will go down a similar path. But ultimately, that’s not a bad thing if you play it safe using the safety measures described by the forum members.
You seem intelligent so bear in mind operant conditioning. You can condition yourself. If you do a set of behaviours and get pussy you have reinforced those behaviours. So, if you act like a mangina to get a taste of pussy, then you are reinforcing the inner mangina. We all have a mangina inside of us and MGTOW is the path to keeping that creature under control.
It’s kind of a tragedy that a man’s natural desire for female attention/affection is the one desire of his life that he cannot satisfy by applying his accustomed, merciless will and drive to it.
Our desire for female attention/affection it’s due we have been raised by women, and we still confuse, on a subconscious level, the figure of the female partner with the figure of the mother.
A partner is not your mother, she’ll never be, not even closer. The best thing she can be is the mother of your children, but the children will be HER children, much more than your children.
She’ll expect you support both her and the children: children are biologically 50% yours, but legally 10% yours, or something like that.There’s just only a way to change this state of things: single fathers having a child using an artificial womb. Then a new generation of men, totally different, will be raised by them.
SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG-UN'S FASHION STYLIST - if you want a new look or if you're a very beautiful trans you can call me, phone number +85079255312 / mobile 01921421211. The worth of a man isn't the usefulness that women get from him. Avoiding living with a woman, a man isn't rejecting a lot of sex: he's rejecting sexual starvation. MGTOW IS TACKLING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONVENTION OF ISTANBUL: http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/rms/090000168008482e --- Article 4, Section 4 "Special measures that are necessary to prevent and protect women from gender-based violence shall not be considered discrimination under the terms of this Convention". WHAT I LEARNT FROM A GENDER STUDIES CLASS IN LUND, SWEDEN: every time feminists accuses men of doing something, odds are likely either them or persons associated with them are doing the exact same thing but a lot worse. WHO I'M RIGHT NOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1okpAj7Fhw Basically my former life have been a conflict between this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_RQVkvke4 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFIMeyTK-sU That's, more or less, all about me.
Just a little bit of temporary companionship would suffice.
Hey @rockmaninoff, can you give me a sense of what this means to you? I ask because some guys just want to f~~~ a girl for 30m or an hour or whatever, then want her to leave.
Typically guys that are a bit older (like me for example, i’m 36) want something a bit more than strictly f~~~ing. The last date i was on was fun because we flirted & made out in some bar. Then i took her back to my place. Other dates included dancing before i took her back to my place. Point is, there’s some connection beyond f~~~ing involved.
Point is – if you’re looking just to get laid, to “put another notch on your belt”, then i’d recommend escorts. If you want something in addition to the sex, what would that be?
Used to make an effort with women, got fed up, don’t make an effort anymore, feel that that will only exacerbate the problem
Hi Rockmaninoff-
Good post. I think you are on to something. I don’t make an effort with women either. In my blue pill days I would “bust a gut” to please ladies. Wasted energy. Now I don’t give a damn. If a lady is with me, it’s on my terms. Thanks
let them exhaust themselves.
relax, live your life and enjoy !
always on your terms.As you get closer to 30 you will naturally become more attractive to women. This is the advice from all the post-30 men on this forum. After 30 the pussy generally starts falling into their laps.
I’ve heard this from older men I actually know, and not just from the internet, so I’m still hopeful. Then again, these older men are the same ones who tell me that college is the best years of your life and that they’ve give anything to be my age.
Our desire for female attention/affection it’s due we have been raised by women, and we still confuse, on a subconscious level, the figure of the female partner with the figure of the mother.
I disagree. Have you heard of the wire monkey experiment? Monkeys would often go to a “soft” mother that provided no food than a wire-rim one that dispensed food.
Women have a natural desire to bond with a man, just as men have a natural desire to bond with women.
Hey @rockmaninoff, can you give me a sense of what this means to you? I ask because some guys just want to f~~~ a girl for 30m or an hour or whatever, then want her to leave.
Someone I could spend a few hours with sometimes on the weekends, who’s a pleasure to be around even outside of the bedroom.
always on your terms.
I don’t disagree. But the point of my introspection is to see where “my terms” have room for improvement to get the most out of life.
". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée
After 30 the pussy generally starts falling into their laps.
eventually resembling a split squirrel between two basketb~~~~.
And yes, you chase it till you’re in your early thirties, then it chases you.
They are subtle at the chase.
They aggressively move to make their presence known to you without appearing to do so."It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."
TL;DR: Used to make an effort with women, got fed up, don’t make an effort anymore, feel that that will only exacerbate the problem
Nowadays, when I see a pretty girl, I think “yeah, it’d be cool if she were into me, I guess,” but rarely can I make the effort anymore. But now my body screams at me “Rock, look at everything you’ve accomplished with the effort you’ve made with other things; if you don’t make the effort here, what do you expect to happen?” In short, I’ve acquired a sort of guilt toward myself.
I suffered from low self esteem most of my life. Like most men, I based alot of my personal value in how women saw me. After going my own way, I had this incredible sense of pride and confidence knowing that I no longer needed validation to feel good about myself. I can walk out with head held high knowing I am what I am and I live only for myself.
I myself suffer occasionally from this “guilt” that others also impose on me. People would often call it copping out for not pursuing what is supposed to be natural especially after my health and financial status has improved considerably over the years.
Playing the game, chasing skirts and just working towards a relationship feels like such a chore, that I can’t even imagine putting myself through the same misery I had once brought myself to just for the affection of a woman.
Alot of what I feel today is a combination of my own experiences and seeing men all around me drop like flies. Can anyone truly blame a man for not wanting to step forward when the field is littered with broken men on leashes.
Anonymous12Totally relate as you know from my own post. It just feels like trying to build a house on a swamp, a lot of hard work and you know that sooner or later it will sink.
So it is best to focus on other things.
Totally relate as you know from my own post. It just feels like trying to build a house on a swamp, a lot of hard work and you know that sooner or later it will sink.
So it is best to focus on other things.
Heh. I might have to use that.
Learn from the past, Control the present, and you will know the Future.
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