Evolution of Society/ies

[Anonymous 0]

I’m new here and, judging by the crowd, way too young. But maybe this gives me a unique perspective of looking towards the future.

For this reason I propose a discussion you might find interesting. Namely the fact that feminism led to the plummeting of birth rate because young women prioritize education over family. Long term this means that people of western values are at a catastrophic disadvantage against people of more traditional values, i.e. tradition wins over freedom simply because of evolution (they are more successful at producing offspring).

My question is, even though we are MGTOW and we want to fight for our rights, should we willingly choose to doom our society? Or do we rely on technology to save us (surrogate mothers or some form of artificial womb)?

I can already hear the feminist shouting how I’m against education of women. But in fact it is entirely the opposite of that. If women continue neglecting they biological inheritance, they are going to find themselves in traditional societies where their education actually is taboo. Am I insane to think that a woman giving birth to three children is contributing more to society than liberal arts major serving beverages?

[Anonymous 4]

The ship is lost grab a life ring and swim away there’s nothing to save, unless of course you want to rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic.
Welcome.

[bstoffParticipant 4884]

Interesting topic, but I think I’d like to hear more about you in the form of an introduction before commenting on something like this.

There are a lot of people who could use responses from this as a source of “bad attitudes” to discredit the MGTOW world.

I will say that, as MGTOW, we aren’t interested in “fighting for our rights”, as you put it. We are actually only concerned with going our own way. Nothing more.
You might be thinking of the MRA movement.
They’re down the hall. Last door on the left.

[AutoliteParticipant]

bstoff wrote:

I will say that, as MGTOW, we aren’t interested in “fighting for our rights”, as you put it.

MRAs are all about that ^^^. MGTOW is just about the survival of the individual man in a dysfunctional, broken society that’s already well beyond ever getting ‘fixed’…

[AutoliteParticipant]

bstoff wrote:

You might be thinking of the MRA movement.
They’re down the hall. Last door on the left.

I hear that they have ‘punch and pie’ too…

[Anonymous 0]

To any who might see this as racist or hateful: I really tried to avoid labeling any particular group of people. I just wanted to comment on different social structures, in different regions of the planet.

And to all who, rightfully, pointed out that “fighting for our rights” is not part of the platform: I apologize. I did not put my idea forward clear enough. Passive-aggressive approach (declining to do something) is still “fighting for our rights” in my book, but I understand how people might easily misunderstand me.

To bstoffers: What kind of introduction? I am happy to provide it, but naturally without any specific personal info. This is the internet after all.

And finally, to all who said that we should just abandon the boat: I might have misunderstood the MGTOW platform. I thought we are simply men who decided to stop conforming to society. I agree with that wholeheartedly. But I still think that there are some good parts about our way of life, like freedom of expression, how we value education, and look towards progress etc… I think this is worth saving and the best way to do this, in my opinion, is with good parenting, rather than importing people.
Is that racist? Seriously, I don’t know if it is… I didn’t know it had anything to do with race. It might be conservative, but since when is that an invalid way of thinking?

[OldBillParticipant]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m new here and, judging by the crowd, way too young. But maybe this gives me a unique perspective of looking towards the future.

Not unique as much as naive.

Young men are primarily romanticists. They still believe in causes, movements, and righteousness. They still believe people are rational. They still believe that a logic can change people’s opinions. Much like how your belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy faded away, these other beliefs of yours will fade in time too.

For this reason I propose a discussion you might find interesting.

That’s a remarkably odd sentence for several reasons. Is English your native language?

Namely the fact that feminism led to the plummeting of birth rate because young women prioritize education over family.

Suggesting that single specific causes are solely responsible for complex social changes is a hallmark of youth, naivete, and romanticism too.

Long term this means that people of western values are at a catastrophic disadvantage against people of more traditional values, i.e. tradition wins over freedom simply because of evolution (they are more successful at producing offspring).

You need to dial back your social Darwinism.

My question is, even though we are MGTOW and we want to fight for our rights…

As the others have already explained, you need to join a MRA forum.

… should we willingly choose to doom our society?

MGTOW and the men following it’s philosophies haven’t “doomed” anything. MGTOW is merely a response to a “doom” which has already occurred.

Or do we rely on technology to save us (surrogate mothers or some form of artificial womb)?

Save us? Technology will spur changes, true. As for saving us, that presumes a return to an earlier state. Technology is going to create a new equilibrium, not restore an old one.

I can already hear the feminist shouting how I’m against education of women. But in fact it is entirely the opposite of that. If women continue neglecting they biological inheritance, they are going to find themselves in traditional societies where their education actually is taboo.

So in your view it’s a case of “Muzzies gonna drown us”? You can take that s~~~ right back to Stormfront where you found it. If anything, Western values are infecting traditional societies faster than traditional immigrants are effecting Western societies.

Am I insane to think that a woman giving birth to three children is contributing more to society than liberal arts major serving beverages?

Insane? No. Wholly ignorant of the facts? Yes. Lacking the experience and perspective to objectively examine the past and present so as to make rational predictions for the future? Yes again.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[GregB0Participant]

Anonymous wrote:

What kind of introduction? I am happy to provide it, but naturally without any specific personal info. This is the internet after all.

Typical introductions provide current members with generic background facts as to:

why you sought out / found MGTOW.com,
why you requested an account and
why you are posting.

Examples of specifics life circumstances that may have influenced these decisions and an idea of what your expectations are of members would be considered a bonus.

The Introduction forum threads have examples from everyone who has responded to this thread, as well as those members who have not.

Welcome and enjoy getting to know the site.

​"​My father didn't tell me how to live; he lived, and let me watch him do it.​" - Clarence Buddinton Kelland

[Anonymous 0]

OldBill: Thank you for you brutal honesty. I do feel that you went out of your way a bit to condescend, but I don’t mind. And no, English is not my native language, I hope you at least understood me, even if my writing is stale to you.
You make a compelling argument about my use of language, but I think there are a little people whose argument can stand after such an examination.
The most important reason that I asked this question is that as a student of molecular biology with a major in development, I am very interested in what people think about artificial organs and I wanted to give a back story to it (that didn’t work out so well). I hope to work on synthesis of artificial organs one day and I was interested if use of technology to procreate was something that this community welcomed. I now realise that phrasing and form is as important as the argument here. I’ll try to be more careful in the future. I hope you’ll find some understanding for us youngsters…

OldBill wrote:

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Long term this means that people of western values are at a catastrophic disadvantage against people of more traditional values, i.e. tradition wins over freedom simply because of evolution (they are more successful at producing offspring).

You need to dial back your social Darwinism.

.

That is not an argument, but a criticism. I still think it’s a reasonable concern and if you have something reassuring, I would welcome it.

My story:
I didn’t thought anyone would be interested in my background to be honest. I am a 22-year old student who doesn’t have any particularly bitter experiences with women (and after reading some of the experiences here, I am thankful for that). I’ve stop dating about 5 years ago as I realized that what I expect of a relationship is very different from what most girls I dated expected from one. So I decided to become a loner and sever most of my social connections.
Another reason I didn’t write an introduction sooner is because I thought a question that bugged me for a while was more constructive.
I know I’m gonna get s~~~ for this, but I’ll be honest. I found this website after watching “The Red Pill” movie (several times). It resonated with me and I decided to dig a little further.
As for why I joined…. I don’t really have a good answer. I was curious more than anything else and I thought I might learn something here.
Do I need to make a new post in the Introduction section, or is this enough?

[OldBillParticipant]

Anonymous wrote:

OldBill: Thank you for you brutal honesty. I do feel that you went out of your way a bit to condescend, but I don’t mind.

No condescension. Just honesty.

And no, English is not my native language, I hope you at least understood me, even if my writing is stale to you.

There is nothing wrong with your English. Nothing. Understand? Your writing is clear and your points come across just as clearly.

It was how the sentence was constructed that was odd, not the meaning it carried. While the phrasing was slightly “off”, that didn’t effect what the sentence was “saying”.

Your English is fine. I wish some native speakers here wrote as well as you do.

You make a compelling argument about my use of language,

I made no argument about your use of language because your use is perfectly fine. I simply commented on an “oddity” in written composition. Nothing more.

With regards to artificial organs, they’re already using “exo-wombs” in the lab to gestate mammals like sheep. Human trials cannot be too far behind.

Please do make an introduction as Greg suggested. It will be both interesting and informative to read what drew you to MGTOW and why you chose to come here.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Anonymous 0]

OldBill wrote:

Dagadee wrote:

OldBill: Thank you for you brutal honesty. I do feel that you went out of your way a bit to condescend, but I don’t mind.

No condescension. Just honesty.

And no, English is not my native language, I hope you at least understood me, even if my writing is stale to you.

There is nothing wrong with your English. Nothing. Understand? Your writing is clear and your points come across just as clearly.

It was how the sentence was constructed that was odd, not the meaning it carried. While the phrasing was slightly “off”, that didn’t effect what the sentence was “saying”.

Your English is fine. I wish some native speakers here wrote as well as you do.

You make a compelling argument about my use of language,

I made no argument about your use of language because your use is perfectly fine. I simply commented on an “oddity” in written composition. Nothing more.

With regards to artificial organs, they’re already using “exo-wombs” in the lab to gestate mammals like sheep. Human trials cannot be too far behind.

Please do make an introduction as Greg suggested. It will be both interesting and informative to read what drew you to MGTOW and why you chose to come here.

I am familiar with the work of Bulletti C et al. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21401640) I honestly thought it was an interesting point of discussion.

And thank you for your compliments on my English. I have video games to thank for it.

I will make an Introduction then.

[OldBillParticipant]

Anonymous wrote:

I honestly thought it was an interesting point of discussion.

It is an interesting point of discussion because it would do away with the only thing women are truly useful for: child birth.

“Exo-wombs” would set men free as nothing else have ever done.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[Anonymous 0]

OldBill wrote:

Dagadee wrote:

I honestly thought it was an interesting point of discussion.

It is an interesting point of discussion because it would do away with the only thing women are truly useful for: child birth.

“Exo-wombs” would set men free as nothing else have ever done.

Precisely. When you put it like that I wonder why I ever expected people to fight me on that. But on the other hand, there are people opposed to things like cloning and abortion.

[GregB0Participant]

Anonymous wrote:

English is not my native language, I hope you at least understood me, even if my writing is stale to you.

Dagadee,

One of the only “suggested rules” associated with MGTOW.com is that members post an introduction prior to using the forum.

This allows new users to set expectations regarding their subsequent posts and threads. Simple issues like a learning disability or ESL or working late are easily communicated and then do not detract from the intent of the message.

MGTOW.com members do not care where fellow members come from, only that they are Men who are sincere about their reason for being on the site.

FYI, OldBill is a highly respected, long term member of MGTOW.com. Many many members follow him and carefully consider the posts and threads that he posts. I consider myself fortunate to have this ability on a routine basis and would suggest that you also look carefully at his posts and responses to you. Just a thought to consider.

​"​My father didn't tell me how to live; he lived, and let me watch him do it.​" - Clarence Buddinton Kelland

[Anonymous 0]

GregB0 wrote:

Dagadee wrote:

English is not my native language, I hope you at least understood me, even if my writing is stale to you.

Dagadee,

One of the only “suggested rules” associated with MGTOW.com is that members post an introduction prior to using the forum.

FYI, OldBill is a highly respected, long term member of MGTOW.com. Many many members follow him and carefully consider the posts and threads that he posts. I consider myself fortunate to have this ability on a routine basis and would suggest that you also look carefully at his posts and responses to you. Just a thought to consider.

Understood. It’s done.

I noticed his experience with discussions like this right away. I accept his criticism and advice, and I will do my best to understand and apply them.

I thank you for your advice and the welcoming as well. I look forward to listening what people here have to say.

[Secret Agent MGTOWParticipant 22559]

You make rash assumptions.

Who says mgtow is going to doom society? Define what that means.

Who says in todays world a woman needs to have 2-3 kids? We are not heavy labor farm families with very little medical treatment options.

This post gets my radar up a bit.

Women want everything, but want responsibility and accountability for nothing.

[Anonymous 4]

Remember Dagadee the bank of trust is a harsh creditor if you’re a fake the close the account. No second chances.

[Anonymous 0]

Secret Agent MGTOW wrote:

Who says mgtow is going to doom society? Define what that means.

Who says in todays world a woman needs to have 2-3 kids? We are not heavy labor farm families with very little medical treatment options.

I didn’t say MGTOW was going to doom society, but rather that the low birth rate is going to destroy liberal and freedom based societies as they are at a disadvantage compared to traditional ones.
I invite you to imagine what it means to “import” people who don’t agree with your society for. There is no problem if they assimilate and accept ideas of the host county. But if they reject them, long term, they are going to outnumber their opposition.

[Anonymous 0]

Anonymous wrote:

Remember Dagadee the bank of trust is a harsh creditor if you’re a fake the close the account. No second chances.

I think I understand where you’re coming from.

I don’t imagine there is much I can say to you now to reassure you. But if I ever step out of line, I feel you are and should be obliged to ban me.

I’m just one voice and I doesn’t seem fair for me to ruin your thing.

[Author]

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