Everything We Think We Know About Addiction Is Wrong

[OhnoParticipant 668]

oh, thats Interesting!

[bobphiloParticipant 1772]

A great video. This is why traditional rehab and 12 step programs often fail. The drinking and drug abuse are only a symptom and an attempt to self-medicate the internal pain of living in this society, which is the real culprit. I know people who would have committed suicide had they not had alcohol to get them through some unbearable times.

[bobphiloParticipant 1772]

As a wise man once said. What do you get when you sober up a drunken horse thief? A horse thief.

[HitmanParticipant]

excellent video ! how do i get to “rat park” ? ..count me in .

[NioZenParticipant 856]

Good find GT, thanks for sharing. I love the internet for this kind of information sharing, a little 5 min video that p~~~es all over your paradigm. It makes a lot of sense, I’ll check out Dr Alexander’s work I think. Lol’d at the ‘doing heroin is a great way to spend your time’ in Vietnam part.

I’m not a drug user in any great way, but the thought of having your freedom taken away because you wanted to experiment with your own consciousness is really quite disturbing to me. If you don’t have sovereignty over your own consciousness, then do you have any real freedom at all, or are you entirely owned by the state?

We only dream this bondage. Wake up and let it go. - Vivekananda

[RoyDalParticipant]

The “war on drugs” is nothing but a taxpayer funded employment program for otherwise useless men and women who are making careers out of being civil servants.

Most, if not all, government programs are the same. They provide cradle to grave incomes to people who would not be able to make it without being propped up by artificial means.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[Cheeky BastardParticipant 323]

Unfortunately this is an incredibly irresponsible video. I don’t know which old theory of addiction they’re talking about. There are three theories of addiction what were woefully wrong but we’ve known for the last 19 years (r1) that addiction is a biological and psychological. Also where is your references (old 1) (new 2) how are people meant to check your conclusions.

Different addictions behave in different ways so is there really a universal theory of addiction? The answer is no absolutely and unequivocally no.

The most common type of understood addiction is biological one they’re talking about now. Opiates like Morphine mimic the chemicals in our brain that rewards us (r2) like having sex this is a biological addiction it is compounded by psychological trauma or psychologically unsuitable conditions (r3).

Other addictions fall into the category of psychological only like computer gaming, social media and phone addiction. This one is completely based on the psychological reward system you see in poker machines (4). Which is a self-imposed addiction and can happen even when an individual is in a good psychological environment. So this completely debunks this video completely (5).

1 Altman, J., Everitt, B. J., Robbins, T. W., Glautier, S., Markou, A., Nutt, D., … & Phillips, G. D. (1996). The biological, social and clinical bases of drug addiction: commentary and debate. Psychopharmacology, 125(4), 285-345.

2 Koob, G. F., & Bloom, F. E. (1988). Cellular and molecular mechanisms of drug dependence. Science, 242(4879), 715-723.

3 Nestler EJ (December 2013). “Cellular basis of memory for addiction”. Dialogues Clin. Neurosci. 15 (4): 431–443.

4 Malenka RC, Nestler EJ, Hyman SE (2009). “Chapter 15: Reinforcement and Addictive Disorders”. In Sydor A, Brown RY. Molecular Neuropharmacology: A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience (2nd ed.). New York: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. 364–375.

5 Olsen CM (December 2011). “Natural rewards, neuroplasticity, and non-drug addictions”. Neuropharmacology 61 (7): 1109–1122.

Sincerely
Cheeky Bastard
Neuroscience and technology

CEO Cheeky Industries Technology Fabricator

ABN 71 247 061 775

and
23 year gaming icon Cheeky Bastard

www.cheekyindustries.biz

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[OhnoParticipant 668]

Cheeky Bastard wrote:

Also where is your references (old 1) (new 2) how are people meant to check your conclusions.

the rats are the reference. they are used in experiments for that reason… if they werent then forget about scientific experiments with animals alltogether. Rats are being used for a reason, because of brain structure somewhat similar to ones of humans.

Cheeky Bastard wrote:

Different addictions behave in different ways so is there really a universal theory of addiction? The answer is no absolutely and unequivocally no.

Umm, so far you arent an authority on this subject and wheres your proof? Do i just have to believe your words?

Cheeky Bastard wrote:

The most common type of understood addiction is biological one they’re talking about now.

???

Cheeky Bastard wrote:

Other addictions fall into the category of psychological only like computer gaming, social media and phone addiction. This one is completely based on the psychological reward system you see in poker machines (4). Which is a self-imposed addiction and can happen even when an individual is in a good psychological environment. So this completely debunks this video completely (5).

hmm….dunno what you are talking about, but no 😉

thx for watching it anyways.

[bobphiloParticipant 1772]

I’m with you, German. All forms of behavior, including addiction, are a combination of genetic predisposition and environment. There must first be a biological potential followed by life situation that brings it out. The later is crucial In addiction, as Alexander proved in rats, and if anything even more important in humans who are so affected by environment. Alexander’s excellent book on global addiction shows how the increase in all types of addictions is the result of increased isolation and loneliness, We are all becoming more and more like the poor lonely rat in his cage with little real-time social contacts. Like rats we are a social species. We need more face time and less Facebook time

[Anonymous 5]

bobphilo wrote:

All forms of behavior, including addiction, are a combination of genetic predisposition and environment. There must first be a biological potential followed by life experience that brings it out.

This is why some people get addicted with the same environmental factors and others don’t.
It has nothing to do with character flaws.

This video is spot on in observation. This new mindset on addiction has been around for a number of years but still hasn’t caught on mainstream in a big way yet.
However I believe they’ve drawn the wrong conclusion. It’s not based on isolation, it’s based on pain.

Look at the current example of patients in hospitals getting mega-doses of heroin. These patients would have about the same degree of isolation as the general population. Their families and friends don’t desert them. At no stage are they isolated. The only factor is the time they’re in pain.
When the pain ends, their need for the drug ends.
The Vietnam war was one of the most hated in US history. These guys were doing and subject to all the usual mindless murder of any war but they weren’t heroes, they were villains in the eyes of the public. They had no emotional rewards like other soldiers in wars.
Yes, they were isolated, but they were in emotional pain.
Rats are social animals. All rats do is be bred and then breed. There’s no “single” stage.
Rats don’t mature and go off and play the single life, then progress to a stage where they’re ready for breeding.
They’re always in a family situation. Isolating them immediately causes distress, pain.
Human males are different. We’re like many other male mammals, being alone is perfectly normal. In many male mammals only an alpha male has to live with the females and offspring.
In past Australian indigenous culture, the older a man got, the more likely he’d peel off from the tribe and live alone, only returning for law and ceremonial purposes.
For many men in our culture, isolation is a blessing.

Cheeky bastard is right too. There’s other reasons for addiction based on brain/dopamine dynamics. This applies to food addiction, nicotine, alcohol, cocaine, gambling and many other behavioral and substance addictions.

All individuals vary in their susceptibility.
To give an example, they’ve identified the genetic markers for nicotine addiction and you can now get a test that tells you you’re percentile chance of being a smoker. It’s remarkably accurate.

The vast bulk of serious addictions are based on pain. A past or present experience or affliction which in most cases leads to emotional isolation which causes pain.

EDIT: I know I’m drawing a thin line here between isolation and pain but I think it’s valid.

[OhnoParticipant 668]

Anonymous wrote:

However I believe they’ve drawn the wrong conclusion. It’s not based on isolation, it’s based on pain.

At 5:00 in the video it says “the opposite of addiction is connection” and before it says we always connect with something because thats in human nature.

In the rat park there were 2 things given to the rats….other ratfriends to hang out with or have sex with and toys to play with.

If you take out the other rats from the rat park and only leave them with toys they were also provided with in that experiment, the rats could still make a connection with the toys, but would be isolated from other rats. They would still have something to connect with even though being isolated.

so i guess the rat experiment “MGTOW- Style” would be to only give toys ( activites ) to the rats and no fellow rats and see if thats enough connection in order to not drink the drug-laced “deathwater”. I guess it wouldnt because us humans have way more interesting toys and acitivites to connect with then you could ever implement into a ratpark. So i figure us humans can make enough connection without social contacts and sex, that our life is still worth living. To have both would be surely better, but its not possible to keep it interesting for the rats with only some toys in a cage without other ratfriends.

i hope you can follow my thoughts here.

[bobphiloParticipant 1772]

Isolation and loneliness can generate intense emotional pain, especially in social species. In a broader sense, addicts are trying to self medicate their pain, either physical or emotional The brain processes both physical and emotional pain the same. That is why opiate pain killers can also reduce emotional pain. People with Depression and Anxiety are especially prone to addiction as alcohol and opiate drugs are potent short term anti-depressants and anxiolytics. However, continued long term use will increase the problem. A substance or behavior can be addictive in relation to how much it relieves pain.
As Homer Simpson said when he was suffering from Depression, “Duff Beer, there’s a good short term solution”

[Anonymous 5]

Ohno wrote:

i hope you can follow my thoughts here.

Absolutely. I assumed isolation and lack of connection were the same thing, they’re not, thank you
Pain is also the common thread in all the observations. as well.

Again, Cheeky Bastard is also correct in saying that many addictions are based on other factors, mainly brain/dopamine dynamics.
Addiction to sugar is one of these and is the by far the biggest problem the world population has today. It’s the main cause of Metabolic Syndrome and destroying male/female relationship dynamics, personal esteem problems and financial Armageddon for our health systems.
This particular addiction leads to emotional isolation and pain, like many other addictions so in many cases it leads to the OP’s “lack of connection” premise which either exasperates or adds another form of addiction.
The initial cause however, is a dopamine based addiction which can happen to anyone depending on your genetic susceptibility combined with your environment

Discipline, deprivation and common sense never work long term for a dopamine based addiction.
Once someone can understand how their particular or personal “binge-ing” works, they can very easily deal with it. It’s self fixing.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

I’ve had this discussion with a drug and alcohol addicted former friend recently. She went to AA for a while trying to clean her s~~~ up but she didn’t last very long and slid back into the scene. I told her that drugs and alcohol aren’t the problem (it’s possible to indulge in both from time to time without becoming addicted) but that it was her own internal issues that were driving her to seek escape in them.

It was her internal truth that she could not face. I told her that she would never amount to anything and nobody would ever care about her until she could face that truth, whatever it is. She can’t and she won’t and she’ll almost certainly end up dead as a result… and it appears that’s exactly where she wants to be.

She excused herself from my presence after that, with the exception of calling me once for a late night rescue extraction, and I let her go from my life soon after that. I don’t know where she is now but she’s probably drunk, coked up and rolling and surrounded by dudes just waiting for the chance to exploit her.

Self esteem.., make some or die.

[Cheeky BastardParticipant 323]

german truther: Maybe my post was written in haste and spell check displayed the wrong word, but every single statement I made there was a reference for it. So I don’t know what the following statement is meant to mean

“so far you arent an authority on this subject and wheres your proof? Do i just have to believe your words?”

So I’m meant to not know what I’m talking about even though I noted five references of the top of my head as I was running out the door WTF. That is five times more than what you did or the video did. Five times more than what anybody does.

And for note sheep brains are closer to human brains than rats or primates you can look up that one yourself and maybe next time you’re actually have something cogent to say.

Sincerely
Cheeky Bastard
Neuroscience and technology

CEO Cheeky Industries Technology Fabricator

ABN 71 247 061 775

and
23 year gaming icon Cheeky Bastard

www.cheekyindustries.biz

cheeky.bastard@hotmail.com

https://www.facebook.com/CheekyIndustries

[OhnoParticipant 668]

neuro-science isnt taken out of the equation by this 5 mins video. It still works fine with all your references, because its not in opposition to them. Even when some people are more predestined to use drugs than others by their biological setting, the solution to the drug-problem would still be to have a better option than taking them.

Cheeky Bastard wrote:

Unfortunately this is an incredibly irresponsible video.

Cheeky Bastard wrote:

is there really a universal theory of addiction? The answer is no absolutely and unequivocally no.

well, is that not acting up as an authority?

[Cheeky BastardParticipant 323]

german truther: I suppose my degree in neuroscience, science in psychology and med science disqualifies me.

This information is available in my profile.

I would like you to note that environment comes under psychological presses and triggers. This also would include external stimulus like a social life that include people that use drugs especially ones that you’re addicted to 1.

1 Marlatt, G. A., & Donovan, D. M. (Eds.). (2005). Relapse prevention: Maintenance strategies in the treatment of addictive behaviors. Guilford Press.

Sincerely
Cheeky Bastard
Neuroscience and technology

CEO Cheeky Industries Technology Fabricator

ABN 71 247 061 775

and
23 year gaming icon Cheeky Bastard

www.cheekyindustries.biz

cheeky.bastard@hotmail.com

https://www.facebook.com/CheekyIndustries

[OhnoParticipant 668]

Cheeky Bastard wrote:

I suppose my degree in neuroscience, science in psychology and med science disqualifies me.

maybe, to me your degree isnt worth s~~~.

[Cheeky BastardParticipant 323]

german truther: Obviously you know nothing and you’re talking out of your ass.

You obviously need professional help with dealing with being wrong and the possibility of a type a personality disorder.

Sincerely
Cheeky Bastard
Neuroscience and technology

CEO Cheeky Industries Technology Fabricator

ABN 71 247 061 775

and
23 year gaming icon Cheeky Bastard

www.cheekyindustries.biz

cheeky.bastard@hotmail.com

https://www.facebook.com/CheekyIndustries

[OhnoParticipant 668]

dude save your crappy insights. you werent even capable of understanding the video.

[Author]

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