This topic contains 17 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by 
Evilcpu 1 year, 10 months ago.
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Today I´ve seen a cryptoexchange site, Nova Exchange, that now requires to accept the new GDPR to complete to log in the profile. I believe this sounds as a bad piece of news for crypto enthusiasts and traders, since this means compulsory identification. Luckily, I have about just fifty cents on that site, so I´m not going to log in ever again. The Nannypean Union has apparently set in motion its privacy obliterating machine. In my point of view, cryptocurrency trading should be anonymous (as much as possible, of course), otherwise the true essence of cryptocurrency loses its meaning.
I´d like to know what you think about this ensuing situation.
Out of your prime, out of my sight.
Anonymous42I´d like to know what you think about this ensuing situation
Silver, Gold, or beans and rice if you can’t afford it! Right now I have both along with my iodide pills…
P.S. don’t think for a moment the central banking system is gonna allow a form of currency they can’t water down with printing more and charging interest.
Cripto is DOA…
I´d like to know what you think about this ensuing situation
Silver, Gold, or beans and rice if you can’t afford it! Right now I have both along with my iodide pills…
P.S. don’t think for a moment the central banking system is gonna allow a form of currency they can’t water down with printing more and charging interest.
Cripto is DOA…
I know right. I have iosat tablets and a gas mask. I’ve started stockpiling food on a regular basis to build it up quickly, and I am going to also get water purification soon. (a small sized one and a medium sized one that will attach to the Nalgene bottle)
I have relatively tiny amounts of silver and gold, but I have a metric f~~~ ton of lead. The largest amount of wealth is in my land — much of it is perennial fruit and vegetables, but much of it is not visually identifiable as such. (example, how many people know what the f~~~ perennial “climbing spinach” looks like? not even most master gardeners)
I do have a weird plan to try and utilize squirrels as a labor force. I am going to put a rainspout on an oak tree, to see if squirrels will do here what they’ve done in other places — dump tremendous amounts of acorns down it. At one apartment complex near an oak forest, workers removed something like 300 garbage bags full of acorns from the gutters and rainspouts deposited there by squirrels.
I will have it go into a barrel or container that has a side access point for both me and the squirrels — so they benefit from a reserve food supply stored essentially in a granary. I’ll benefit because squirrels tend to harvest vast quantities of acorns beyond what they will eat.
All my life I've had doubts about who I am, where I belonged. Now I'm like the arrow that springs from the bow. No hesitation, no doubts. The path is clear. And what are you? Alive. Everything else is negotiable. Women have rights; men have responsibilities; MGTOW have freedom. Marriage is for chumps. If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart-R'as al Ghul.
utilize squirrels as a labor force
LMAO, I know you’re being serious but that is hilarious to me.
P.S. don’t think for a moment the central banking system is gonna allow a form of currency they can’t water down with printing more and charging interest.
You got a point, that´s true. Somehow they have to squander it in undeserved welfare for the various Chads´ spawn and pull their ponzi schemes.
I do have a weird plan to try and utilize squirrels as a labor force. I am going to put a rainspout on an oak tree, to see if squirrels will do here what they’ve done in other places — dump tremendous amounts of acorns down it. At one apartment complex near an oak forest, workers removed something like 300 garbage bags full of acorns from the gutters and rainspouts deposited there by squirrels.
I will have it go into a barrel or container that has a side access point for both me and the squirrels — so they benefit from a reserve food supply stored essentially in a granary. I’ll benefit because squirrels tend to harvest vast quantities of acorns beyond what they will eat.
I love this plan, it´s very effective LOL! And also, I love squirrels. Nowadays, stockpiling food is a good idea. In a supermarket in which I frequently go, I´ve seen a sign at the cash desk saying that “it is not allowed to buy more than of the family necessities in order to prevent people from stockpiling food”. That got me thinking of an imminent crisis.
These developments mean I´ll have to change my modus operandi soon. Instead of currency (crypto or fiat), I´ll have to start to harvesting solar energy, growing my food, storing water and such resources as soon as possible…
Out of your prime, out of my sight.
Regulation and professional traders are going to drive the price of most cryptos DOWN. Might get a bump up in a few years once the dust settles. For now I HODL. / hold on for dear life / Ha!!
It amazes me so many people thought governments would let crypto crap go unchecked. Its like I’ve been saying since the beginning…they’ll let it stick around for a while as long as they can make some tax revenue off it and nobody is really using it for anything other than gambling, but if it ever interferes with government backed currencies and their money printing abilities, they’ll kill it.
It amazes me so many people thought governments would let crypto crap go unchecked. Its like I’ve been saying since the beginning…they’ll let it stick around for a while as long as they can make some tax revenue off it and nobody is really using it for anything other than gambling, but if it ever interferes with government backed currencies and their money printing abilities, they’ll kill it.
I don’t think it’s that simple. I’m trying to see the whole thing as objectively as I can. I was a skeptic and naysayer of crypto for years and now I own some.
As far as taxes go, the powers that be are going to be facing a brick wall.
Two points on this: 1. People disregarded filing taxes on crypto already, all together as one said ‘aint doing it.’ Now ofcourse some do and did, especially paranoid people or those cashing out bookoo dollars the year before last but there was a major number of people who didn’t bother. That creates a mess of paperwork for the IRS who will spend more money chasing tiny capital than it’s worth.
2. In December alone, MILLIONS of people joined crypto exchanges and threw anywhere from $100 in, to a few grand. These random Americans ended the tax year by tossing a negligible amount of money into crypto. Do you really believe, Joe the brick layer and Suzy the waitress are going to claim crypto purchases on their 2017 tax return? There are millions of these people. My intuition says hell no. Not that they’ve made any money anyway…but even if they did. They wont be claiming tax write off or gain, it’s beyond their comprehension to do anything but file an EZ form.
My final point about crypto is this. It may be sudden, it may drawn out and painful but banking is about to get it’s ass kicked. The government is not a bank. We’re also dealing with individuals who can hack things like that Snowden guy. Crypto is, and has been, notoriously difficult to define, track and tax and that is not going to change. My bet is that the IRS are up to their ass in trying to figure it all out and they’re depending on the fear of small people to claim any gains they had. The majority of them are going to say screw the IRS.
Unless you’re withdrawing 10’s of thousands of USD from Coinbase into your Bank of America account, I don’t see the IRS being able to find you and go after you and honestly I’m skeptical if they can or will go after those people. Let’s face it, how many 20 year old nerds became millionaires and took out bookoo USD in December and January, probably so many that the IRS is understaffed to be able to deal with it.
The people are going to tell the IRS to shove it, by sheer numbers of people alone they can get away with it. You can’t enforce rules on a mob who refuses to submit.
All this regulation and tax FUD is fear mongering. They are trying to let it be known that the whales may be in for some tax penalties, fine; those big buyers have millions invested on a corporate level so they need to be regulated. They are also trying to scare little people into giving themselves up. Screw that. I’m not reporting s~~~ to them, I’ve got like $2000 in there and it was wiped out almost completely by the sell-offs because I bought at All Time Highs.
These hackers and crypto coins are going to f~~~ up the banks and the FED and I will be laughing.
The IRS can try to intimidate people and try to get records and bank statements. Oh well, they can’t enforce it on millions of Americans. I think we’re in for some serious rough times ahead. I don’t think the IRS can win this one, people will fight them, ghost them, stop reporting taxes… The IRS knows its bluffing, like I said, its all rhetoric that is wildly unenforceable on such a massive amount of people, for such little gains. They are after the big money.
As far as taxes go, the powers that be are going to be facing a brick wall.
Two points on this: 1. People disregarded filing taxes on crypto already, all together as one said ‘aint doing it.’ Now ofcourse some do and did, especially paranoid people or those cashing out bookoo dollars the year before last but there was a major number of people who didn’t bother. That creates a mess of paperwork for the IRS who will spend more money chasing tiny capital than it’s worth.
2. In December alone, MILLIONS of people joined crypto exchanges and threw anywhere from $100 in, to a few grand. These random Americans ended the tax year by tossing a negligible amount of money into crypto. Do you really believe, Joe the brick layer and Suzy the waitress are going to claim crypto purchases on their 2017 tax return? There are millions of these people. My intuition says hell no. Not that they’ve made any money anyway…but even if they did. They wont be claiming tax write off or gain, it’s beyond their comprehension to do anything but file an EZ form.
The point 1) is absolutely correct, from my personal experience I can say that I even asked legal advice to a lawyer in this sector, in Italy. It was incredible that I almost knew more than him on the topic, apparently…at the end of the day, the answer was something like “You didn´t have to pay taxes provided that the gain is small, let´s say under a couple or three thousand euros a month or in this ballpark”, obviously without mentioning a clear cut off or limit. Long story short nanny state took hands away from muh cryptoh.
Concerning the point 2), a sensible taxation on crypto is very difficult to enforce, since it would create paradoxical situations due to the intrinsic volatility of said currencies. Anyway, there are hundreds of methods to stay in the clear and avoid taxation, trying to preventing them all is not going to cut it. However, the issue of the (incoming?) compulsory identification on exchanges is present and it´s still an issue, in my opinion. It´s a scare tactic with a moderately discouraging effect, but it can throw a monkey wrench on the little people plans who want earn something to get meal or two at the restaurant or beer once in a while.
Out of your prime, out of my sight.
Two points on this: 1. People disregarded filing taxes on crypto already, all together as one said ‘aint doing it.’ Now ofcourse some do and did, especially paranoid people or those cashing out bookoo dollars the year before last but there was a major number of people who didn’t bother. That creates a mess of paperwork for the IRS who will spend more money chasing tiny capital than it’s worth.
So in other words while cryptos are still relatively new and the rules loose…the government is still cashing in on the high dollar targets with very little effort….
2. In December alone, MILLIONS of people joined crypto exchanges and threw anywhere from $100 in, to a few grand. These random Americans ended the tax year by tossing a negligible amount of money into crypto. Do you really believe, Joe the brick layer and Suzy the waitress are going to claim crypto purchases on their 2017 tax return? There are millions of these people. My intuition says hell no. Not that they’ve made any money anyway…but even if they did. They wont be claiming tax write off or gain, it’s beyond their comprehension to do anything but file an EZ form.
Of course they’re never going to end all tax fraud…its no different than Joe the brick layer doing a side job for cash or Suzy the waitress not claiming all her tips.
The difference is though the ledger all the crypto fans brag about is keeping a convenient record of all the transactions made in a digital format the IRS will easily be able to access if cryptos have staying power. The whole point of OP’s comment was that authorities are already legislating ways to make it less anonymous. Its not just about your 2017 taxes…try connecting the dots and thinking ahead a little.
We’re also dealing with individuals who can hack things like that Snowden guy.
Which is one of the reasons why I stay out of crypto lol. What happens when someone hacks and steals crypto, which seems to happen to the toon of millions weekly? That money is just gone. You have no way to recover it. What happens if someone hacks my bank account or credit card? I report fraudulent activity and get refunded. Yeah…I’ll stick with the options that aren’t going to leave me high and dry.
Crypto is, and has been, notoriously difficult to define, track and tax and that is not going to change.
Define? Its already been clearly defined for tax purposes.
Track? Isn’t there a ledger that tracks all transactions? I mean seriously…crypto fans can’t brag about that and then turn around and say its hard to track. I think at some point exchanges will end up like brokers…if you want an account you gotta pony up your tax info when you register. Additionally, the IRS could probably do it right now if they wanted…but if you move money from a bank account to crypto…its leaving a trail on your bank statement. Or let’s pretend in the future cryptos are a legit currency. If you ever pay a bill for any account tied to your name with crypto…you pretty much just killed off any anonymity that account had. The IRS is going to have a field day going forward if they desire…people are leaving all kinds of digital trails for them and they haven’t even really begun to crack down on it yet.
Tax? Yup…right now…because its new…but again…taking a snapshot of right now isn’t what the field is going to look like in the future. Again…like OP pointed out…governments are already taking steps to make it less anonymous. Why do you think they’re doing that?
Unless you’re withdrawing 10’s of thousands of USD from Coinbase into your Bank of America account, I don’t see the IRS being able to find you and go after you and honestly I’m skeptical if they can or will go after those people. Let’s face it, how many 20 year old nerds became millionaires and took out bookoo USD in December and January, probably so many that the IRS is understaffed to be able to deal with it.
Yup…considering <1% of the population ever gets audited, a lot of the little guys can and will get away with tax fraud…but you seem to agree the IRS could track money from crypto accounts to banks if they wanted to. What would stop them from passing a law that banks must notify them of accounts that moved money from crypto to cash. They already have your bank account linked to your tax info, and they have, you know, computers. Its not rocket science to run comparisons to see if all the people the banks claimed cashed out crypto filed crypto gains on their tax returns, then just start handing out the fines for everyone who failed to report. The money someone failed to report this year they think they are getting away with scott free might come back to bite them in the ass in a few years. If I can think that up in 2 minutes sitting at my desk, I really doubt its beyond the thought power of people who make a career out of catching tax fraud.
Screw that. I’m not reporting s~~~ to them, I’ve got like $2000 in there and it was wiped out almost completely by the sell-offs because I bought at All Time Highs.
And they’re laughing at you, because you’d be entitled to a tax write off for your losses. Besides, if you haven’t actually sold the crypto yet, as far as they are concerned its not a gain or a loss at this point.
The IRS knows its bluffing, like I said, its all rhetoric that is wildly unenforceable on such a massive amount of people, for such little gains. They are after the big money.
Lot’s of little money = big money, and you guys are all leaving digital records behind…that is where the problem lies. Its going to be easier in the future for a single IRS agent to catch more people the more things are digitized. They’ll change and adapt going forward. Taking your money is what the government does best…I’m not expecting that to change anytime soon. Thinking you are pulling one over on them for the next few years may in fact just turn out to be you placing the noose around your neck for them to kick the stool out at will…good luck with that.
I hear you man, some of this is unrealistic though.
The difference is though the ledger all the crypto fans brag about is keeping a convenient record of all the transactions made in a digital format the IRS will easily be able to access
That record, is unintelligible. A needle in a haystack is a vast understatement. They’d need intimate cooperation from the exchanges and even that would be a futile endeavor, even with the exchanges full support. We’re talking about numbers that stretch around the world every second. It’s nearly impossible to presume they could do this for more than one or two individual accounts, forget about millions of users. And foreign exchanges are going to have no obligation to help the IRS, feed them s~~~ and keep them in the dark.
someone hacks and steals crypto
No one is actually stealing crypto. They devise different scams but crypto can’t be had, only the keys to them. Almost all of what you read about so called theft is FUD. For instance, they stole computer power or mining equipment. Unless you give out your wallet password and 2FA device, it’s impossible. Mt. Gox was an unfunded BTC scam, not a theft of actual BTC. Mt. Gox claimed to have BTC it didn’t have, so people were thought they owned stuff they didn’t. Don’t leave your money on exchanges, it’s very easy to have an offline wallet. The only theft of crypto I see is when people sell it at a loss.
Define? Its already been clearly defined for tax purposes.
It hasn’t because there are different kinds of crypto. Some of them are currency, others are utility tokens for new types of internet. Its incredibly obscure to non-tech people like me (and regulators in Washington). None of them know what to call it or how to regulate it. BTC goes back and forth between a property, a currency, or whatever. Defining something like Neo or IOTA is even worse. Its actually funny, they desperately want to scare people out of it, or to get a piece of the pie, but they don’t even know what the hell it is.
its leaving a trail on your bank statement.
For solo whale investors, cashing out into private USD bank account is going to be very obvious but I don’t think the people tossing multi-millions around are private citizens, they are corporations. All this tax regulatory s~~~ is aimed at them, the easy target to collect big taxes. Joe and Suzy aint worth it because they don’t own enough and there are too many of them.
you seem to agree the IRS could track money from crypto accounts to banks if they wanted to.
They have no idea what is going on in the actual exchanges, especially exchanges out of their jurisdiction. This is why Coinbase is going to go bankrupt (they’re in America), they seem to be playing nice with the IRS after putting up a fight in court. I think they will continue to play cat and mouse and only give up the big cheese. This is why it’s a good idea to have multiple exchange accounts.
Lot’s of little money = big money,
Collecting lots of little money, requires extensive man power. The thing is, trying to compute umpteen million transactions a week, during a volatile market, and trying to tax a few million tiny people who have less than a few grand in/out of an exchanges from US bank account…its a ridiculously daunting task, ludicrous to think the IRS is coming after these tiny people. And forget about those exchanges that trade the Alt coins, we’re talking trillions of transactions a week made by robots. Even if Coinbase jewed every single person and gave the IRS a perfect rundown on how much everyone is worth (doubt that will happen because it would be too difficult to do) but now the IRS has the data, all 10,000 filing cabinets full. There is no way a government employee gets paid enough to tax every last person, they be taxing people at a loss.
Its sort of like enforcing the speed limit at rush hour, blind folded with no radar gun. They will not likely ever be able to tax everyone. And the ones they’re gonna tax are these bankers who are tossing millions of dollars around.
I’d say that even people who withdraw more than $20,000 off of Coinbase this year, flat out cash into a mainstream American bank. They will probably not warrant an effort on the part of the IRS who is understaffed, hated, and up to their eyeb~~~~ in trying to go after real tax evasion by the mega whales. Suzy and Joe, who might dollar cost average in all year for a maximum input of maybe $9000, in or out, they wont even be on the radar. Anyway, f~~~ Coinbase anyway. They should either refuse the IRS or shut down their website.
Anyway, I’m not worried at all and I don’t think there is reason to be. Buy and HODL, worry about withdrawal later. Even if I had a million dollars in there, I’d only withdraw less than $10,000 a year unless I was really old and just didn’t give a s~~~ anymore. And if I had a mega gain, Id honestly consider just paying some tax, maybe just fudge the numbers and give the government a nice 10% cut to keep them at bay. Or outweigh those gains with expenses like home improvement….
It amazes me so many people thought governments would let crypto crap go unchecked.
Because people are fcuking stupid and don’t learn and won’t accept that we are run by a criminal class because the truth isn’t nice.
http://www.leavemeansleave.eu
I don’t think it’s that simple.
It’s 100% that simple.
Forget the small detail and the technology of how block chain works etc, etc, etc and look at the bigger picture.
http://www.leavemeansleave.eu
Most people agree, people with big money and real investments; that you wont have to pay tax until you pull out. That is where it’s real easy cut and dry.
You show a gain of $5000, well it’s taxable income so buy a new lawn mower or renovate the bathroom to off set those gains…
With as s~~~ty as the market has been, corporate manipulation and shorting, robot trading and fake news sell off hysteria, I don’t suspect crypto as a whole will be doing much for several months so it doesn’t matter.
Still, there is, and will continue to be long term holders who wont sell. That base grows at a snails pace but it’s going for years. There were months and years where BTC traded back and forth between a few hundred bucks. When it finally gained support over $1000 it went parabolic. We’re looking at the aftermath of that. Many are still bullish with good reason.
No matter what happens, there is a MAJOR support level at $3000-$5000 for BTC, a level where bankers and institutions weren’t in yet. They only have so much rope to shake. And the Alt coins were basically murdered, down 80% from their all time highs in January.
With this in mind, it’s actually a great time to buy crypto, after a 60-80% correction from the ‘Fear Of Missing Out’ (FOMO) buying in Dec.
With respect to It’sAllBulls~~~, dude, you think everything is bulls~~~. You’re perpetually negative and pessimistic lol. Not everything is a scam. The Federal Reserve isn’t King of Earth. It’s power is based on what the people give it. Seeing as fiat is printed debt, sooner or later it has down periods. The whole invention of crypto began after 2008. Sooner or later another 2008 will happen and people will become even more annoyed with banking and the FED.
Like that bitch said in Bladerunner, “you can’t hold the tide with a broom.” I’m not a crypto cultist or conspiracist, or anti-capitalism. I’m actually more of a patriot than most people on this site. But I keep my eyes on everything because anything is possible. Crypto isn’t going anywhere, and currently its in a dip so investors take advantage of that. I don’t have anything to lose by putting a few grand in crypto and researching what it was.
Stranger things have happened than crypto going mainstream. And popular opinions and legislation change like the wind so I wouldn’t rule out anything
Most people agree, people with big money and real investments; that you wont have to pay tax until you pull out. That is where it’s real easy cut and dry.
You show a gain of $5000, well it’s taxable income so buy a new lawn mower or renovate the bathroom to off set those gains…
With as s~~~ty as the market has been, corporate manipulation and shorting, robot trading and fake news sell off hysteria, I don’t suspect crypto as a whole will be doing much for several months so it doesn’t matter.
Still, there is, and will continue to be long term holders who wont sell. That base grows at a snails pace but it’s going for years. There were months and years where BTC traded back and forth between a few hundred bucks. When it finally gained support over $1000 it went parabolic. We’re looking at the aftermath of that. Many are still bullish with good reason.
No matter what happens, there is a MAJOR support level at $3000-$5000 for BTC, a level where bankers and institutions weren’t in yet. They only have so much rope to shake. And the Alt coins were basically murdered, down 80% from their all time highs in January.
With this in mind, it’s actually a great time to buy crypto, after a 60-80% correction from the ‘Fear Of Missing Out’ (FOMO) buying in Dec.
The market has indeed worsened, even if I made some gains, I have to say it´s not like before. However, as you point out, I´m holding and hoarding up s~~~coins that I´ve been using for several months. I know that what I´m going to say is obvious, pump and dumps are a cycle and can be predicted with somewhat accuracy.
I think that withdrawing and staying below reasonable thresholds can help avoid taxation and suspicion. Moreover, it´s possible to choose different withdrawal methods, which complicates things further for money-hungry governments.
Crypto isn’t going anywhere, and currently its in a dip so investors take advantage of that. I don’t have anything to lose by putting a few grand in crypto and researching what it was.
Well, I wish I had the same money you said at the time I began! I started from 0.20€, I feel poverty stricken now. 😀
Out of your prime, out of my sight.
withdrawing and staying below reasonable thresholds can help avoid taxation and suspicion.
Yup, at this point we’d be lucky to withdraw what we put in. But even if we triple our money this year, I doubt either of us is going to take that money out. And if I did withdraw into USD, it would not be more than the initial investment of a few grand.
A few grand is peanuts and the IRS wont give a s~~~ if you reported it or not. They want the big withdrawers bank account info, the guy who is pulling out $50,000 a year and buying cars and s~~~. He had better be reporting that s~~~. If it was me, I honestly wouldn’t mind declaring a gain and paying tax, as long as I 10x or 20x my initial investment. But the market sucks so hopefully it gets better.
Good luck man. My boss said, this is how you do it to avoid tax. You wait until December, withdraw 9000, then another 9000 in January (two separate tax years). $18,000 aint much but it might be tax free. Buy a new truck and waste it all! LOL
Saw this coming ages ago. I have my crypto moved to hardware usb stick. If I need to convert to hard currency I have several places where I can convert it to gold or silver.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Good luck man. My boss said, this is how you do it to avoid tax. You wait until December, withdraw 9000, then another 9000 in January (two separate tax years). $18,000 aint much but it might be tax free. Buy a new truck and waste it all! LOL
Sounds like a good idea, I´ve already “wasted” some money on my new gaming laptop. It´s not an astoundingly powerful machine, but I can finally open more tabs at the same time without fearing any crash.
Saw this coming ages ago. I have my crypto moved to hardware usb stick. If I need to convert to hard currency I have several places where I can convert it to gold or silver.
I was prepared for that, too. That´s the reason I´ve been having my wallets in an offline backup since the beginning of my crypto adventure.
Out of your prime, out of my sight.
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