Current and future public perception of MGTOW

[Just MikeParticipant 393]

This took me a while to write. Sorry about the length in advance and if it seems convoluted at times, it’s pretty big on my mind and has me thinking harder than I have in a while.

After reading the post on the BBC and its trickery it got me thinking about the public perception of MGTOW, both current and future. I know a key principle of MGTOW is pretty much not giving a f~~~ what other people think about it, hence literally going your own way despite what surrounds you but at the same time it’s kind of a two-handed thing. What I mean: there’s almost a perceptibly noticeable wish for MGTOW to be taken seriously. It’s a given amongst the members of it and within the circle and territory we currently inhabit, and perhaps the will amongst some is that it’s better off not being noticeable in the public eye at all. However it is almost assured that it will, at one time or another, come into the public spotlight for whatever reason, for better or for worse.

There are plus and negative sides to this. I think the biggest plus is in advocating men’s rights, especially to do with alimony, divorce and the legal systems that are clearly biased against men regarding these. These are legitimate rights that ought to be raised and I’d champion them even if I’d never heard of MGTOW. They are not ‘men whining’ as some detractors put it. Even a hardcore feminist should be able to see the logic in what we’ve repeatedly been posting and saying about these issues. I believe only misguided emotion could possibly be a reason why people would not be able to see the clear injustice in said legal systems. Unfortunately, feminism is largely mutated from its original self and the trend seems to be that emotion can sometimes equate logic and should be taken seriously in decisions and responses. Passion, certainly. Emotion, no. You can have emotion for or against a topic, everyone does, but it should *never* be used in making important decisions, or be confused with logic.

Now, a tangent: feminism. I think first-wave feminism started out as something quite legitimate. Women wanted the same equal rights as men and I commend their fight; I think a lot of well-intentioned logic and co-operation went into making the changes from both sexes. Something was imbalanced, balance was sought and it happened. I actually see a lot of parallels between early feminism and the sort of legitimate issues that MGTOW is trying to raise to public awareness now (and it can be said that MGTOW is in its infancy right now as feminism was back in the day), hence my support for what feminism *was*. Hell, there may even be feminists out there who are still level-headed; women are going to have social, political, legal issues, whatever issues you can name, just as men do. If there’s a right to raising an issue to awareness seeking change then it will arrive in one way or another. I commend anyone taking a logical approach to dealing with these issues, especially when it comes to public awareness, and not just men. There is also something to be said here for issues that are just plain ridiculous and should be taken to with a shotgun to the face, but hey, what doesn’t float one person’s boat might be very important to another. People aren’t always going to agree with our views on the main MGTOW issues, even if we’re very passionate about them and can see absolute sense in them ourselves. Alternately, I don’t see any problem with myself as an MGTOW agreeing with a logical and well-thought out issue raised by a woman, concerning women. If it makes sense and doesn’t lead to gynocentrism, cool beans, I’ll consider the point of view. I believe a little bit of respect on that front could go a long way. I also know that what I’ve just said is also highly ideological and rarely seen these days.

The sad fact is that most feminist issues now (exceptions of course; real domestic violence and rape cases still deserve unconvoluted justice reagrdless of the lies that can be spun using the legal system just for gain) are guided by emotion and the misandry we’ve all seen and that is largely accepted as being ‘what feminism is’, despite the massive mutation into gynocentrism. I’m guessing today’s gynocentrism is as much of a f~~~-up result to first-wave feminism as not receiving any rights at all; the needle swung the f~~~ completely in the opposite direction when it was meant to be about balancing it in the middle. To re-iterate: I believe feminism *was* a good thing that deserved recognition but not at all anymore with the gynocentric shift. In many ways, it both succeeded and failed. It succeeded in allowing women to also go their own way, seek independence and do their own thing on a level equal to men and I respect that in *theory*. The *reality* is the message got lost somewhere, like a huge game of Chinese whispers.

Back to MGTOW and the parallels. Many of our issues will eventually come to light because they are important and worth taking there but I’d be disappointed if it devolved from the critical and excellent brink it currently sits on and we’ll see developing as time goes on, into the sort of shallow, self-serving hole that feminism fell into. MGTOW has just begun to carve its path. Feminism has already been there and I think a lot of their mistakes we can learn from as to give MGTOW much more creedence and respect in the future. Honestly, what I see from modern ‘feminists’, and the sort of showboat behaviour that gets the most public exposure is most often vengeance, pure and simple. They want that needle to stay right the f~~~ over the other side because there’s a huge system that allows them to abuse it for gain and they think they are owed a reparation of sorts. I sincerely hope that no MGTOW intends to or expects to swing the needle back to where it was before it all started; I believe that direction is futile and would make us just as bad as the behaviour we rail against from women. It may be wishful thinking but I’d like to think MGTOW can play at least some factor in making that needle swing back to the balanced middle, not either side, and maintaining the responsibility of not trying to push it further for petty reasons such as rebound vengeance.

On that note is hatred. I understand the frustration and anger a lot of MGTOW feel towards women/feminism/gynocentrism/biased legal systems, I really do, but anger in itself is not really going your own way, it’s getting hooked up on something that we know we ought to be bigger than for our own sake and no-one else’s. No shaming here, find the peace for yourself to see the forest through the trees. Anger is an antithesis, it’s not getting past things when the aim should be…I don’t know, indifference? The ability to logically and rationally see beyond all the emotions that we see rampant in women and choking the system, that are most commented on here? It’s self-defeating to the larger and more important part that MGTOW could play in advocating legitimate men’s issues. Passion, sure. I just don’t think anger is going to get us very far in the long run and in the current climate it’s all too easy to make this anger into immaturity and fodder to throw back. This is a tactical move: you win more flies with honey than vinegar. Not saying we should roll over and blue-pill, or relinquish any of our current views, nothing like that. Red-pill all the way. It may simply be worth looking at the question of cultivating a more level-headed, logical and therefore respected view in the future. Men may able to be respected again wholesale by doing something as easy as not degenerating into the s~~~ty, petty, vengeful depths of modern feminism.

I’m sorry if the tone comes across as preachy, or you don’t like what I’ve said. It was never intended to do/be so. All of the above is just my opinion and it may not count two s~~~s to some or a lot of people. I’m OK with that. I know that MGTOW is most accurately a philosophy and what I’ve posted is more cause-related/actionary thing. I’m not saying that MGTOW is in any way the rebound equivalent of feminism despite the parallels mentioned; I’m well aware it is its own phenomenon, just needed the comparison for argument’s sake. I’m not saying MGTOW should be brought into the light, or public perception; it may well be better off cultivating in the dark for the time being (my view is that this is currently the cleverest move). Just trying to get the point out that, in growing numbers, we may be able to play some sort of future hand in making a change in the perception of alimony, custody, divorce etc (which I 100% believe is important) and it’s much easier to be heard and make it stick if we can alter the public perception of ourselves into a favourable position when and if the time comes. Hater’s gonna hate and MGTOW will face critcism regardless but in strategic terms, and future terms…who knows?

Society: I refuse your stick and carrot. If you try to beat or shame me you'd better take me down first time. If I want smoke blown up my ass I'll buy a cigar and a length of hose.

[RoyDalParticipant]

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[Math RoninParticipant 86]

Just Mike wrote:

.. it got me thinking about the public perception of MGTOW, both current and future. I know a key principle of MGTOW is pretty much not giving a f~~~ what other people think about it, ….There are plus and negative sides to this. I think the biggest plus is in advocating men’s rights, especially to do with alimony, divorce and the legal systems that are clearly biased against men regarding these. These are legitimate rights that ought to be raised …..On that note is hatred. I understand the frustration and anger a lot of MGTOW feel towards women/feminism/gynocentrism/biased legal systems, I really do, but anger in itself is not really going your own way,…I know that MGTOW is most accurately a philosophy and what I’ve posted is more cause-related/actionary thing. I’m not saying that MGTOW is in any way the rebound equivalent of feminism despite the parallels mentioned

Very good post, and a topic I reflect on from time to time too.

It’s also a very complicated issue; if your wish comes true, maybe one day we’ll have “men’s studies” at universities where people will study the complicated forces that account for how viewpoints such as MGTOW evolved ( I know, I’m not holding my breath on that one either…lol). Unfortunately, I’m not knowledgeable enough in the history of these topics to address them, but I can give you my own opinion on a few things you’ve said:

1. MGTOW as a “movement”: I doubt it will occur in our lifetime for several reasons. First, MGTOW is not like a homogeneous, monolithic type of structure. My perception is that MGTOW is accepted by men for many different reasons. Divorce and child support are big issues for many MGTOWs but not all. But these “men’s rights issues” (because they have a decent amount of popular support that is probably growing) can be fought separately and I think should be. Associating “MGTOW” with these issues would not be a good idea; it would raise more controversy and only hurt the credibility of the men’s movement (since MGTOW is neither well known or accepted by the general public). Although I agree with you that men’s rights issues is a fight that MGTOWs can get involved in to battle legal and societal notions that are no longer applicable or fair, it is a fight that we shouldn’t fight under the MGTOW banner but rather due to our inner convictions about MGTOW.
2. Anger: Yes, there is a anger in this group. But this is a natural part of the process of dealing with the inequities men have been dealt not MGTOW. I grew up watching my father’s generation and I was dealt a whole different set of cards without a f~~~ing instruction manual. Sure we’re mad. But anger is not hatred, and anger, when appropriately expressed and channeled (as it is in this group) is not bad and is actually therapeutic and necessary. I think the men in this group are trying to channel their anger in productive way to create better lives for themselves and don’t need a movement to do this. It is easy to perceive MGTOW as a “women haters” club, but it isn’t because anger is just a step on the path to healing, not a terminal state we’re stuck in.  And this point goes back to your observation about MGTOW being a personal philosophy. I agree and what I would add is that the message of MTOW is not a nihilistic one, but one of liberation. To me, MGTOW is a world view that I am free and is a way of helping me liberate myself so I can be happy. I hope you come to see MGTOW in this light too.

 

 

[sidecarParticipant 35849]

It doesn’t matter how the public perceives MGTOW.

What matters is that more and more men are perceiving the true nature of women and society, seeing scams like marriage and “fatherhood” for the raw deal they truly are, and walking away.

Society women will NEVER see MGTOW positively because MGTOW are taking away the resources they depend on, leaving them to (*shock* *horror*) earn their own keep. But the opinions of women are mattering less and less every day. And don’t matter at all to MGTOW.

[Anonymous 5]

The_Plague has a nasty tuna smell

[QcummerParticipant 652]

Anonymous wrote:

The_Plague has a nasty tuna smell

yes, and it only gets stronger the more it types. We shall see…

[Author]

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