Business Advice

[SMADParticipant 651]

Hey all,

Been a while since last post but have been lurking quite regularly.

So its been nearly a year since I started up my own company and trying to GMOW in terms of career / employment.

Been a bit of a slow start unfortunately (as an engineering firm) due to the whole Brexit thing which has made a lot of projects go on hold (or program managers are being reserved.)

I am looking at branching out into other potential areas but trying to find good business advice online is either clickbait crap, or very generic “cookie cutter” tips. Does anyone have any suggestions for engineering company advice?

I know there are a few fellow engineerings / scientists on the forums and so any input would be greatly appreciated!

Marriage?  No thanks, i'm not ready to be THAT miserable.

[Anonymous 3]

Hi, a scientist here.

In an engineering company there are (expected to be) a lot of good smart people. Ask them, do meetings. Maybe someone has some good ideas.

Are you sure, that the company has the best tools, and people know how to use it? rusty blunt abused tools are delaying work and making it more dangerous. Also, the same idea on the design software, bookkeeping, HR and management side. Are the processed streamlined? Does everybody know his / her job everyday? (we struggle more with paperwork than actual work sometimes.) If someone goes away due to illness or holiday, is there anyone to continue his / her work, so that you are not waiting extra weeks?

Optimization: Do you have energy efficient stuff? (light bulbs, and similar, and heating and building isolation? that may spare money on the long run)

Do you have a free coffee machine next to the office? It is common knowledge, that engineers and programmers live on caffeine.

Are the working hours synchronized with the active hours of the staff, or are you trying to get night-owls working in the early morning?

Is the working place comfortable? Silent offices with good lighting are better than small boxes with buzzing printers and computers. If field work, provide all the safety equipment for the staff, and be sure it’s not making the work harder by being impractical and uncomfortable. (in workplace we have some old laser protection glasses that block peripheral vision and get foggy, and have like 10% light transmission-that in a dark room-,so we always wear the better new glasses.)

About the customers, you should keep a log about them when and what did your company do, when the warranties expire, and ask for feedback about your work. If there are problems, repair them fast good and cheap. they will like you for it, and call you back next time, and suggest your company to others.

that’s what come to my mind.(but I’m not a boss)

[MattNYCParticipant 2329]

I worked for 2 different consulting firms in risk & information security for years. Not quite the same as engineering, but you’re talking business development, which is the same pretty much everywhere.

My best read on the marketplace was always from talking to clients & potential clients. Not just about the work i was doing for them at that moment, but what they saw as their concerns coming up over the next few quarters/year.

And i was always honest with my clients. Asking them directly “I’m looking to expand my business. I want to bring the same level of excellence in <whatever project you already did for them> to other areas of your company. Do you think there are a few key areas where that would make sense?”

[SMADParticipant 651]

Hi Darth and MattNYC,

Thank you for your indepth answers – in hindsight I should have mentioned my engineering company is actually just me at the moment – the startup was at the beginning of this year.

I work from home so equipment / tooling etc isn’t a massive priority right now as I am not running a factory / manufacturing area.

I am attempting to get into contract / consultancy based work but so far have had zero for a year. I don’t need to make a huge amount of money to get by – cheap rent and low cost of living (hurray MGTOW) but it’s definitely been a slow year business wise 🙁

Marriage?  No thanks, i'm not ready to be THAT miserable.

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

I’ve done contract engineering consulting before, though presently I’m working full time. I think if you’re in the USA, it may be useful to get your Professional Engineering certification if you don’t have it. I’d try to attend professional society meetings in your discipline–becoming an officer in such societies won’t pay your bills, but is also good for networking. I would also bid on small projects to get your foot in the door, especially if you’re not busy, and also respond to ‘help wanted’ ads indicating you can solve specific problems, but aren’t applying for a full-time position. AND that will help you learn what areas it might be beneficial for you to get additional training in to meet market needs. I would also suggest considering attending trade shows and getting a booth, even though it’s expensive. If you’re not busy, offer to do basic work — e.g. spreadsheet models, equipment condition monitoring, etc and charge a really attractive hourly rate to get a foot in the door, e.g. $60 an hour.

Also, consider being a subcontractor for a larger, already-established, larger contract engineering firm. Many times they don’t have enough staff to take on projects, or expertise in certain disciplines. I have been offered subcontract work repeatedly by Environmental and other design firms when they were too busy, or didn’t have enough work in a discipline to justify hiring a full-time employee. Even if you have to sign a non-compete agreement for specific clients you are subcontracted to work for, a client, is better than no client. My experience is in petrochemical/chemical engineering/process controls so I’m not sure how applicable some of this advice will be to you. For instance, in my field, there are lots of contract opportunities if you’re willing to travel to the mideast or Africa.

[SMADParticipant 651]

FrankOne wrote:

I think if you’re in the USA, it may be useful to get your Professional Engineering certification if you don’t have it.

FrankOne wrote:

My experience is in petrochemical/chemical engineering/process controls so I’m not sure how applicable some of this advice will be to you.

Hi Frank,

I’m in the UK and in terms of certification, I have been considering going for Chartered status (I have my Masters / PhD in a *very* niche field that I won’t mention here) but I also feel that being in my early 30’s, I may not be taken too seriously as I am still quite “junior” – in fact another MGTOW member posted a YouTube video sometime ago about “Don’t try until you are 35” and a lot of it resonated and made me think about it more.

I think my mindset is also somewhat different because of the MGTOW philosophy. I believe I have spent many years with at least a purple pill thought process (and then in my 20’s ingesting MANY red pills) but at the same time there is also a bleakness / nihilism to my attitude. With no real interest in marriage or children and a dim worldview, it almost feels like building anything substantial is futile. I don’t want to create an enormous, unwieldy business, just make enough to pay my bills and try and do something I enjoy.

Oh dear, this topic seems to have taken a nosedive. *sigh*

Marriage?  No thanks, i'm not ready to be THAT miserable.

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

SMAD: I’m only vaguely familiar with CEng certification, from working with UK engineers on projects. I would definitely pursue it, since you already have your MSc and PhD, which is the bulk of the work required (I think you actually only require the MSc).

PE certification in the States is a much less involved process; you just pass two examinations and get some references, and do annual continuing education. PE is a lesser certification in that it requires only a BS degree — AND you don’t have to do a presentation as you do for CEng. CEng is definitely more valuable, an internationally recognized certification.

I received a nice pay raise when I attained my PE cert of a couple thousand dollars a year. In the US, the certification allows you to stamp drawings, saving companies on outside consultants. I found the cost to be minimal; my employer paid for study materials and gave me paid time off to take the examination, and then employers pay for annual continuing education. I found the exams to be quite easy, I studied a couple days for them. Even if you’re self-employed, it’s probably still worth considering even if it’s not employer-sponsored, since you already have all degree requirements met. Here in the US, most consulting engineers have PE cert, not sure if that’s how it goes in the UK. In the US, the PE cert gives you a bit of a leg up should you interview for other full time positions too or if you wish to work for another consulting/contract engineering firm.

I don’t think it’s so much your age as it is the size and scope of projects you’ve undertaken. I would recommend attaining the CEng ASAP, even if it’s years until you are ‘taken seriously’, already having the cert, will only help you down the road, and make it easier to do independent consulting. I would definitely try teaming up with someone more established, even at relatively low pay. I used to do environmental audits and write reports, as a subcontractor to an environmental consultant. He took most of the money but gave me my cut — I literally took days off my regular day job to travel and work for him, the hourly rate was multiples of my regular day pay. A good way to get experience. And I would also consider ‘basic’ engineering work — the environmental audits are a good example — a monkey could do that work & it wasn’t really my specialty/discipline that I did day-to-day at my regular work, I just read the regulation and guidance documents, and did it at a satisfactory level. So working out-of-discipline is also worth considering, especially for ‘easy’ work like regulatory compliance or whatever else you’re good at. In my case, the laws were written so these types of audits could only be performed by a registered PE. So the guy hiring me, not having a PE, couldn’t perform that function.

I would definitely consider out-of-discipline work if you’re in what I would deem a ‘niche’ discipline outside mechanical, electrical, chemical, or civil engineering, which have more opportunities than more specialized areas (albeit, often not as well paid, though!)

[MattNYCParticipant 2329]

I don’t know what field you’re in, but in the consulting world clients would most often hire me/my firm because we had “been there, done that” for other clients.

If there’s any possible way you can get in to a recognized consulting firm, prove yourself by going crazy with those billable hours. And then ask to be included in proposal writing, presentations, and sales meetings. If you want to build your own firm & your own client list, that experience is priceless.

[SolidParticipant 7520]

@mattnyc a fellow infosec here ! Nice to meet you !

I work as freelancer, and what @mattnyc said worth gold ! You must be seen and people must know you. And above everything, when then think “I need <thing that you do>”, be sure that your name is the first that they will remember.

There are several texts over the internet about some steps that need to be made. If your product is “human” (consulting, third party workers, etc…), or if its an software, hardware, tool, car, etc. There are different approaches to develop the idea.

But something that is common in all of them is a research about the market, talk about your product with your possible customers, define how many are them, and how much they are willing to pay for it (but keep an eye open, they often lie about it). After that you will know if your product is viable or not, and how much time you can invest into it to test if it will worth something.

[SMADParticipant 651]

Once again, thank you all for your responses. I appreciate the time you have taken to give such in depth answers.

In terms of experience, I have been an engineer for over a decade and I sit on various committee panels (UK wide and local area) in terms of business.

What my niche is in isn’t something that’s really widespread down in my area and I knew this when I started. My ultimate aim would be to increase my particular industry down here – part of the challenge!

Unfortunately, it seems that in my particular area, the big companies generally have the manpower they need “in house” and specific contractors are maybe 200+ miles away which is, of course, a ridiculous commute to do and the cost of doing that would outweigh ANY potential earnings.

I am not in a massive rush to grow quickly, etc, but I also feel that I am not taken very seriously. It’s definitely about getting the foot in the door, etc, but it’s tough when, for nearly a year now, I have had zero contracts.

I have even tried the dreaded recruitment agencies that often advertise engineers for X amount per hour / 3 months, but recruiters are a horrendous breed of people from my experience and so feel very, very reluctant to engage with them.

I have even tried offering a few “freebies” just to prove honest intent, but haven’t even had any takers for that.

Engineering consultancy has the potential to be incredibly lucrative – somewhere in the region of £50-£100 an hour is quite reasonable (according to my contacts) and with that sort of money (in combination with cheap MGTOW lifestyle) I could get away with maybe a month or two of work a year and I am covered.

But even getting these little contracts is proving tricky.

I have considered “moonlighting” and just being an anonymous face somewhere, but shuffling my C.V around to essential “dumb myself down” (that sounds really arrogant, I do apologise) just creates an enormous amount of problems and “gaps” for work history, etc.

FOr those who are USA based – have your engineers made use of telecommuting contractors, from outside the country? I have considered the potential to advertise worldwide and offer skills like CAD Modelling, but not sure if there is too much red tape involved?

Marriage?  No thanks, i'm not ready to be THAT miserable.

[Anonymous 3]

SMAD wrote:

my engineering company is actually just me at the moment

So you are sort of a single entrepreneur. That’s different, and maybe harder. You have to be the boss, the tax accountant, the financing, and the actual worker. Get professional help on the parts that you don’t know. Especially tax rules, some costs proven by an invoice can be deducted from the income, before paying taxes. Do you partially use your apartment or car or computer for that business? Look up the rules.

And look up the trends what the market likes.

Maybe working for a bigger company can pay off better. Those have the money to afford all the necessary expensive CAD software and tools, machines, and have all the “know-how”, and know about other good contractor companies for lot of aspects. Knowledge and mental capacity of one single human is always less, than that of a big company of many people from different fields. And engineering can be very over-complicated, that needs lots of people to think about it together. A single human totally alone is just not more competent, it is not the “good old ages” when Tesla alone could invent a lot of stuff and profit from it and “make the world turning”.

[SMADParticipant 651]

Hi Darth,

Anonymous wrote:

Get professional help on the parts that you don’t know. Especially tax rules, some costs proven by an invoice can be deducted from the income, before paying taxes

Already signed up with a good accountant that has been very helpful so far. But, at the moment its all moot as there has been zero income…

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe working for a bigger company can pay off better.

The intention was not to be part of a bigger company and have a go at starting my own and build up slowly. Part of my business plan was to go into contract engineering but so far, nobody has taken the bait.

I know full well the merits of teamworking in engineering – something I promote when I get invited to talk at schools, etc.

I also despise the “corporate” world and this is where the MGTOW element comes in. HR departments riddled with women who have no idea about engineering, but are considered the “gate keepers” to a company.

It’s definitely a tough career move but, the intention is to GMOW in terms of employment but unfortunately, navigating the s~~~ of feminism and very blue bill, weak willed yes men is somewhat grating 🙁

Marriage?  No thanks, i'm not ready to be THAT miserable.

[RyshParticipant 134]

I suggest that you read quite a bit by Joel Spolsky. Even if you aren’t strictly into software, still do it. He has tons of really good articles on how to run a business. That man is brilliant.

Maybe you know stackexchange.com? He is a co-founder.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/

[Anonymous 3]

SMAD wrote:

HR departments riddled with women who have no idea about engineering, but are considered the “gate keepers” to a company.

Anyone should avoid such companies. At job application talk, the direct boss above one should be there, and it is a person who knows stuff. HR girls are there to do the lot of paperwork afterwards. They should not be gate keepers, it’s not their task. That’s for job stuff.

Good luck to start up your own company. Maybe you can ask Gargamel, he has a lot more experience in running a small company.

[RyshParticipant 134]

Anonymous wrote:

At job application talk, the direct boss above one should be there, and it is a person who knows stuff.

IF yo get to the talk, yes. But who is doing the pre-screening? If there are, say, a hundred application e-mails with CVs, the direct boss will not read them all. It is HR who will filter them and present maybe 5 candidates to the boss. Means, the other 95 are rejected by clueless HR.

That’s why companies cry that they can’t find experts. Because the job offering requires “experience with X, Y, Z”, and many have only one or two of them. They don’t understand that experts are experts because they can easily get into something which they have not done before, but similar to something else they have experience in.

Basically, transferring experience from one domain to another is the hallmark of intelligence. Understanding this, however, requires already some intelligence.

There is no shortage of experts in any domain, just an endemic problem in recruiting.

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