Home › Forums › Relations~~~s › Beyond NAWALT, I have a NoWALT problem
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IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) 3 years, 8 months ago.
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I know about NAWALT. It is usually around the negative reasons to avoid women. It has to do with character issues mainly, and a lack of trust, and things getting ugly. With myself, even if I get past that, which is really hard, there are the other things. I call this NoWALT: No Women Are Like That. In this, I mean that I have a list of what I would like in a woman, that would seem reasonable, but there isn’t a woman on this planet that would match it, so there is no woman who fits. Consider my list:
* The NAWALT stuff: I may run into a few woman I can trust, if I get lucky. This isn’t in a couple set up. I just know them.* The Wall: I am now approaching 50. At this point, is increasingly difficult to find a woman who I would have physical attraction to around my age.
* Disease free: Is it too unreasonable, if I don’t have an STD, to also have a woman I would get involved with to not had one? I ran into this twice.
* Interest in me: I am apparently off the chart from an identity perspective that it causes issues. I get rejected enough, due to being wrong.
* Ability to do my hobbies and interest and have her interested in them intrinsically, for their own: I have my brother, who is married, who has to sneak behind his wife back to race RC cars. Really? This isn’t drugs or alcohol or another woman, or anything like that. Another guy spoke of “wifey points” so he can go off and play boardgames, and he had a limit. This is mild stuff, which a woman could be part of, if she had an interest. But, there isn’t that, so there is this give and take garbage on that. I will play a game of yours, if you watch this romantic comedy with me, and other tripe. In short, each person goes through misery for a few hours, to placate the other one.
This one may not seem as much of an issue, and could have “go off and do your own thing separately” but that I have now. I also do game design, am published, and can use a partner to help playtest, etc… So, it would be good to have a woman with me, maybe one who knows how to do graphics, to get things to work.
A thing in this last area, is the area of board/card games, I see women at, and there would be issues with physical attraction stuff not being there at all. So, I sacrifice about everything just for this one area? I am working to get into shape physically, and have this as a value.
There are other areas, but these are the ones.
In short, even if the NAWALT issue gets resolved, there is the positive side that is next to impossible to find, it seems. In short, NoWALT. Anyone else relate to this? It would, for me, seem to make more sense to just go my own way, do what I need to, and not expect there to be a woman involved. I don’t expect it to be unreasonable to not have character issues that can ruin a relationship, mutual attraction and interest, and also sharing of common interests. It would seem reasonable, but then it comes a matter of bargaining everything off, so I can end up in a relationship hell because I don’t want to be alone? I consider it sane to not go this way, so this NoWALT. Anyone else relate here?
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
In short, even if the NAWALT issue gets resolved, there is the positive side that is next to impossible to find, it seems. In short, NoWALT. Anyone else relate to this?
Definitely. I can’t even find girls I can be friends with; it seems impossible to find one to live with for the rest of my life. That’s even assuming that the marriage laws and other crap got resolved, as you say.
A man shouldn't make his life's objective to be on the side of the majority, but to avoid finding himself in the ranks of the insane. (Marcus Aurelius)
Females have become toxic on the inside.
I could accept aand support a plain Jane or a few extra pounds if they met my needs: Love and emotional support. But females today can’t provide that any more.
Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.
I have my brother, who is married, who has to sneak behind his wife back to race RC cars. Really?
<sarcasm mode on>
How dare he spend time/money on something other than his wife!
<sarcasm mode off>Yet another reason to never get married…
I have no idea what your problem is.
If you are a man going your own way then you don’t need a woman.
Feel lonely? Get a dog.
Need somebody to work and socialize with? Try friends.
Monk
I have my brother, who is married, who has to sneak behind his wife back to race RC cars. Really?
<sarcasm mode on>
How dare he spend time/money on something other than his wife!
<sarcasm mode off>Yet another reason to never get married…
She is an uberbitch also. She mocks the fact my brother doesn’t have a college degree. I recall once I went for my parents, both into a hospital, to a second wedding for one of my brothers, to get them cake and be there. It was done for the relatives. I told people at the table I was at that I got little sleep and I needed to rest, and if it was ok if I could put my head down at the table. She then comes over and yells at me for doing it. Back when I thought I may marry, I was never going to invite her to my wedding. Not an issue now. My brother wanted to do the whole wife and family thing and she was the only one.
I will never go this route ever personally. It is NoWALT as I said. I don’t mind all my life being shared, but it isn’t to be bargained for wifey point nonsense, etc… This isn’t going to happen, more NoWALT (assume NAWALT isn’t a problem) than anything else.
I have no idea what your problem is.
If you are a man going your own way then you don’t need a woman.
Feel lonely? Get a dog.
Need somebody to work and socialize with? Try friends.
I was trying to discuss NoWALT, which is why I mentioned it. NAWALT is brought up, but NoWALT follows. I have an interest in board and cardgame stuff, and the term “landwhale” by some on here, would be a point of reference for most women I run into who like these type of games.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
I have my brother, who is married, who has to sneak behind his wife back to race RC cars. Really?
<sarcasm mode on>
How dare he spend time/money on something other than his wife!
<sarcasm mode off>Yet another reason to never get married…
She is an uberbitch also. She mocks the fact my brother doesn’t have a college degree. I recall once I went for my parents, both into a hospital, to a second wedding for one of my brothers, to get them cake and be there. It was done for the relatives. I told people at the table I was at that I got little sleep and I needed to rest, and if it was ok if I could put my head down at the table. She then comes over and yells at me for doing it. Back when I thought I may marry, I was never going to invite her to my wedding. Not an issue now. My brother wanted to do the whole wife and family thing and she was the only one.
I will never go this route ever personally. It is NoWALT as I said. I don’t mind all my life being shared, but it isn’t to be bargained for wifey point nonsense, etc… This isn’t going to happen, more NoWALT (assume NAWALT isn’t a problem) than anything else.
I have no idea what your problem is.
If you are a man going your own way then you don’t need a woman.
Feel lonely? Get a dog.
Need somebody to work and socialize with? Try friends.
I was trying to discuss NoWALT, which is why I mentioned it. NAWALT is brought up, but NoWALT follows. I have an interest in board and cardgame stuff, and the term “landwhale” by some on here, would be a point of reference for most women I run into who like these type of games.
Your brother sounds pussy wipped.
If I were you I’d stay as far away from him and his wife as possible.
And you play games with fat women … at least they couldn’t catch up with you if you’d ever have to spontaneously escape.
Monk
I totally relate to this. In fact, my own little list is how I use to rebuff people when they ask why I don’t date anymore. I tell them, sure, I’ll date, when I meet a woman that is + or – five five years of my age, 53, who:
1. Is extremely fit like me
2. Has never had kids
3. Never wants to get married or co-habitate
4. Mountain bikes regularly
5. Spends most of her vacation time backpacking or mountain biking
6. Has had no STDs
7. Does not have a drinking problem and has never had a DUI
8. Does not smoke
9. Practices yogaThat list right there eliminates all women everywhere, and shuts down that particular conversation right away.
Oh, and one more thing:
10. She’d have to “get” Monty Python skits, or it’s no deal.Your brother sounds pussy wipped.
If I were you I’d stay as far away from him and his wife as possible.
And you play games with fat women … at least they couldn’t catch up with you if you’d ever have to spontaneously escape.
I have no reason to be involved with my brother. We are in the same part of where I am in the USA, but he is a number of hours away, in a different city and on the road a lot of the time. We don’t have anything in common.
In regards to the game stuff, I play to play. I don’t use it for dating. Even when I went to a singles group, it was for games. About all the people there were in their 50s, and into more causal games. I dropped it due to the time it finished up on Saturday. I could go back, but I am just not in the mood for 8 player Yahtzee sessions and being the one who has to bring new games all the time, to introduce people to it. They are into games as a social outlet, not an end in itself. I have other places I can play now where I am. There is one woman there who may of possibly been something, but it is nothing there.
I totally relate to this. In fact, my own little list is how I use to rebuff people when they ask why I don’t date anymore. I tell them, sure, I’ll date, when I meet a woman that is + or – five five years of my age, 53, who:
1. Is extremely fit like me
2. Has never had kids
3. Never wants to get married or co-habitate
4. Mountain bikes regularly
5. Spends most of her vacation time backpacking or mountain biking
6. Has had no STDs
7. Does not have a drinking problem and has never had a DUI
8. Does not smoke
9. Practices yogaThat list right there eliminates all women everywhere, and shuts down that particular conversation right away.
Oh, and one more thing:
10. She’d have to “get” Monty Python skits, or it’s no deal.The moment you get stuff together, and have standards, I see it much more as a NoWALT issue. The way I see it, Blue Pill men just want someone, without problems, and that is it. When I see being stronger in your own way, and needing a match, and not willing to compromise, no woman will fit. I keep hearing “compromise” and so on. Why the hell do this?
I see with having standards you filter out. I just uninstalled Second Life again. I just got fed up with the weirdness. So there is a woman on there, who apparently is so wrapped up, that is where she stays. And I got a ton of weirdness from here with contact off and story after story, changes in cities where she was, and a sister, and then she doesn’t know who it is that did things, who messed with her account. Then there was her credit card maxed out. All I said I wasn’t going to be on Second Life, and she goes all wacky. It was a sad story of real life issues, and not wanting to talk about it. Then I was selfish, which is why I was alone, and so on. All because I ask to contact me off Second Life, and I was uninstalling. That there is NAWALT area, that weirdness. NoWALT is the next step.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
@igmow: I’m also a gamer. I love it probably more than most other things I enjoy. My wife will only play basic games with me like Machi Koro. She tries. She doesn’t have it in her to play more advanced games. She would if she could I think. She does get insecure about the amount of time I dedicate to gaming instead of her. It causes relationship conflict. It causes s~~~ tests, shaming and passive aggressive behavior. For a long time I just did as I pleased with no regard and then realized I really didn’t have a partner in life. Just someone to date when I wanted.
You’re right about NoWALT. The chicks I see that are somewhat dedicated gamers are not very attractive. I would be leaving my normal standards of HB7-10 to 1-5’s. There is one girl who is 5 (a 6 with make up and sexy outfits), but she has beta manginas following her everywhere for validation. I could/would not even bother with it if I were single.
Are we designing our perfect unicorns? I’ll take a stab at it:
1) No addictive behaviors (smoking, alcoholism, drugs, etc)
2) No mind games, jealousy, manipulation or deliberate bulls~~~
3) Be grateful, respectful and appreciativeShow me a woman that can do ONE of these and I still won’t believe it.
@IGMOW: I’m also a gamer. I love it probably more than most other things I enjoy. My wife will only play basic games with me like Machi Koro. She tries. She doesn’t have it in her to play more advanced games. She would if she could I think. She does get insecure about the amount of time I dedicate to gaming instead of her. It causes relationship conflict. It causes s~~~ tests, shaming and passive aggressive behavior. For a long time I just did as I pleased with no regard and then realized I really didn’t have a partner in life. Just someone to date when I wanted.
Point before the post: I have Machi Koro as replacing Catan as an intro/gateway game, with non-gamers, because it is even less complex than Catan, and easier for new people to grasp. I have Splendor as a “my first ‘build a production engine'” game.
For socializing, I have what I call a “Rule of 5”. So long as there are like 5-7 games I can rotate through with someone (the games need be the same for all and can vary), I am find with the games being less complex. The games needs to be of mutual interest, and generate engagement. Games are different than a lot of other forms of pasttimes, because you can’t just fake your way through and be there. There needs to be some degree of passion or interest, or it really doesn’t work.
For myself, since I am doing game design (I am kicking around an idea for a solitaire version of the game Werewolf/Mafia), it is beneficial to have a partner who can do something I am weak at, like graphic design, or something else. To have it where it is “Well you can go do that, while I go do something else” isn’t my idea of interest. And to have a woman go, “Why don’t you buy something for me, instead of those games”, is way out. I get into compromise and bargaining. There isn’t interest here, so I end up with the wifey/gf points, or like my brother, who does RC car racing behind his wife’s back.
And the game design stuff, if I want to go commercial, suffers if anyone is doing it just for my sake. They will go along, offer fake positive messages for moral support, but not be critical enough, to say if my game design is off. In regards to this, I can say one exception is likely the Looney’s of Looney Labs. Andrew and his wife do game designs together, and run the company together. It seems to work, as far as I can tell. But this ends up being really rare.
You’re right about NoWALT. The chicks I see that are somewhat dedicated gamers are not very attractive. I would be leaving my normal standards of HB7-10 to 1-5’s. There is one girl who is 5 (a 6 with make up and sexy outfits), but she has beta manginas following her everywhere for validation. I could/would not even bother with it if I were single.
There is the entire “sausagefest” thing that goes on, where it is like the women who go on Spring Break and see a hoard of men who will do anything and everything to get their attention. I had been told the ratio of men to women on Spring Breaks in tourist cities, don’t really go well at all for guys. It used to be videogames were similar, but it seems they got culturally trendy, so you get more women with them.
You can take what I said about games, my personal thing, and apply it to a lot of areas that are more men thing. It is really hard to find women who map to the interest intrinsically. NoWALT, as I would say here, is what you face, once you get past the normal issues that people who want a partner say is all they need, and that is the other person not being seriously broken. It means that things run deeper and more difficult than you initially see, when you get around MGTOW. As I see it, those men in Beta mode will give things up, just to have a woman past the issues. There is also the traditionalist who wants the NAWALT, but then also expects her to just be submissive and go along with anything he wants. In short, drop her identity for his whims. I think people do this in relationships, taking it as a sign of “love” and they then find that things go to hell. I would also find a really submissive woman boring. She expects you to drive everything and just tags along. She may try to guess, but she won’t take initiative. She ends up being like a shadow, who doesn’t really add anything new. She is like Bit in the movie “Tron” and is just another mouth to feed. I know some guys needs this, for their egos. I am just not one.
There is also the empty souls that have someone as a randomizer to broaden their worlds. If I am going my own way, and own it, and sort out these issues on my own (autonomy aspect related to MGTOW) then such I don’t need. I need to become better, don’t need just a random mess, just to have someone. So, this would be why I say NoWALT. If I have standards, and can’t find a woman that meets these, then it is NoWALT.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
Are we designing our perfect unicorns? I’ll take a stab at it:
1) No addictive behaviors (smoking, alcoholism, drugs, etc)
2) No mind games, jealousy, manipulation or deliberate bulls~~~
3) Be grateful, respectful and appreciativeShow me a woman that can do ONE of these and I still won’t believe it.
Even if you get that, it still doesn’t mean you would have a good marriage relationship with her. Those are baseline stuff for a decent relationship, but I would say insufficient to do a good marriage. unless you want to sacrifice everything just to have her. I say you can clear a lot of that up with decent boundaries and awareness. But I still don’t feel it is enough. Maybe it is I am driven more by my own identity, and having principles and doing things, than relating. And thus, you get into NoWALT country. It is why I believe it is beneficial to figure out how I would best live, and defend it and do it.
I also happen to believe that dating and marriage causes the bad stuff you see, to manifest. It is all signs of desperation, and what is use by those who are desperate, and get overly emotionally invested in things. Addictions are also a sign of problems with emotion and identity. And also, things can snowball, and you end up in an area, where you get women who are more like that.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
@igmow: I think you bring up some excellent points. You’re definitely on to something bigger than NAWALT here. If I am completely honest with myself, I either give up a ton of personal interest time to be married, or I do what I want and then feel isolated and alone in my marriage.
Even if you get that, it still doesn’t mean you would have a good marriage relationship with her.
Me getting married is about as likely as me being picked to crew the first manned mission to Mars. If i don’t believe there is a woman in the world who meets the baseline requirements for a serious relationship, why would I waste ANY energy on whether or not she would make a good spouse?
Picking out the tile and appliances when it’s clear the foundation isn’t level and never will be… that’s what’s wrong with most people’s relationships. I need that solid, stable foundation before we even talk about framing… otherwise I’m gonna stick to living in my RV and head on down the road.
Even if you get that, it still doesn’t mean you would have a good marriage relationship with her.
Me getting married is about as likely as me being picked to crew the first manned mission to Mars. If i don’t believe there is a woman in the world who meets the baseline requirements for a serious relationship, why would I waste ANY energy on whether or not she would make a good spouse?
Picking out the tile and appliances when it’s clear the foundation isn’t level and never will be… that’s what’s wrong with most people’s relationships. I need that solid, stable foundation before we even talk about framing… otherwise I’m gonna stick to living in my RV and head on down the road.
Thing is both are needed. You need the baseline, plus the customizing. For those who see marriage as the default norm, they look to see how much of the baseline they give up, just to have someone. The NoWALT side also spares me of all this argument over percentages and “you hate women” bollocks.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
Thing is both are needed. You need the baseline, plus the customizing.
No, you don’t. The foundation elements MUST be in place before anything else matters. It’s juvenile wishful thinking to talk about how awesome your career as an astronaut is going to be if you have no education and can’t even pass the entry physical and it’s absurd to talk about your future wife’s beauty, personality and charm when there are no women left in the world who are competent, trustworthy and loyal.
To make a marriage work blah blah… you may as well tell me how to make a ham sandwich out of a turd.
Thing is both are needed. You need the baseline, plus the customizing.
No, you don’t. The foundation elements MUST be in place before anything else matters. It’s juvenile wishful thinking to talk about how awesome your career as an astronaut is going to be if you have no education and can’t even pass the entry physical and it’s absurd to talk about your future wife’s beauty, personality and charm when there are no women left in the world who are competent, trustworthy and loyal.
To make a marriage work blah blah… you may as well tell me how to make a ham sandwich out of a turd.
@IGMOW: I think you bring up some excellent points. You’re definitely on to something bigger than NAWALT here. If I am completely honest with myself, I either give up a ton of personal interest time to be married, or I do what I want and then feel isolated and alone in my marriage.
The takeaway here I say is that: Unless one just wants to rationalize about avoiding marriage for others, the real issues are deeper than just the percentage of women who are so flawed they aren’t suitable for being married. I think that is the main point I am saying.
I also want to say here, if you discuss the context about why you are single as a NoWALT problem, rather than NAWALT with the world, you are more likely to be left alone.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
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