Beauty and Intelligence

[narwhalParticipant]

Something that’s been running through my mind lately.  It seems pretty commonly accepted that the a woman’s looks are more valuable then a man’s looks…within society at large.  Both men and women will give more attention and show more appreciation for the beauty of a woman, then for how handsome a man may be.  They have a distinct advantage here.  Personally, I’m fine with that.  I find really silly then feminism tries to diminish the value of a woman’s looks, but ok.

There are other things that women may ‘win’ at as well.  I would motherly instinct.  They seem to be much more cunning and such.  Men obviously have the advantage in physical abilities.

So when it comes to intelligence, could you make an argument that, although a man and a woman may be equally intelligent, could it be that a man’s intelligence has more value then the woman’s…within society at large?  As a ‘thought experiment’, if I’m asked to spend an hour alone it a room with either a woman who is a  10 beauty/ 5 (average) intelligence, or with a woman who is 5 (average) beauty/ 10 intelligence, I’m picking the 1st woman every time.  I would hypothesis that the majority of men and women would chose the same.  Conversely, if I had to chose  spending an hour alone with a either a man who is <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>a  10 beauty/ 5 (average) intelligence, or with a man who is 5 (average) beauty/ 10 intelligence, I take the 2nd guy every time.  Wouldn’t other men and women do the same?</span>

Now, if I’m an employer who’s looking to hire someone for a job that requires intelligence, I’m not hiring for beauty.  I’m not going to eliminate all women, but I’m likely to favor a man.  Conversely, if I’m looking to hire someone where beauty is a big asset (say modelling, certain sales, etc), I’m most definitely going to favor a woman.  In life in general though, I’m sticking with my original choices.

 

Ok. Then do it.

[Vector VikingParticipant 413]

Well, yes, of course. A woman’s primary contribution to any society has generally always been her ability to reproduce, and a man’s primary contribution to protect and provide for the children that he fathers (or thinks that he fathers). Protection and provision requires brawn and brains (also a balance of cooperation and competition), while reproductive value only requires beauty. That’s why generally speaking, the most accomplished men get to mate with the most beautiful women in the tribe, not vice versa.

I’ve also read that as a whole, women tend to have average intelligence across the board, while cases of both mental retardation and genii are more common in men. While you can find an example of a woman genius if you bother to look, you’ll also be able to find many more examples of men genii. Anyone that’s a member of Mensa can see that membership with the only requirement of being in the top 2% of IQ testing is overwhelmingly men. Interesting to note that Femmorrhoids don’t attack Mensa for being a “boy’s club”.

[RoyDalParticipant]

Vector Viking nailed it.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[– Deleted on Request –Spectator 936]

Vector Viking:

 

The last time I attended a gathering of our local Mensa chapter, it was roughly equally divided between men and women.

 

[MENGINEERParticipant 583]

On a superficial level beauty and intelligence are inversely proportional to a women. Why would a 10 need to be smart? She would probably be a model, trophy wife, actress, etc. no one would be asking her to do hard labor or figure out a problem. Her personal assistants or stand by manginas do that..

Men on the other hand that are intelligent BUILD & CREATE . To support your hypothesis accolades build status and respect, something women attach to like flies on s~~~. We are the S~~~. Most men don’t realize that until it’s too late..

[FrankOneParticipant 1418]

In America, MENSA is 66% male and 33% female per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensa_International

What you see in a local chapter and who attends meetings, may not be representative of overall membership.

I’ve posted on this topic before, I’m not a MENSA member but I agree with Vector Viking on intelligence distribution also.  It’s broader for men (more idiots and geniuses).  The IQ distribution goes further right for men and that is reflected in MENSA memberships, though I regard the IQ distribution as more meaningful than membership breakdown by gender in MENSA.

On a somewhat related topic, I work in Chem. Engineering; when I got out of school almost half the graduates were women, but half the engineers actually WORKING in a plant as process engineers are DEFINITELY not women, it’s far, far less.  Plants are often hot, smelly, and dangerous, and most women, do NOT want to work in them.  It is not as male-dominated as, say, mining, but it’s pretty damn close.  That’s because they go into sales, management, environmental compliance, etc.  And because they often don’t work as many years in the field because they have a family and stop working.  There are definite gender differences; the prisons are full of men because murders are committed predominately, by men.  This doesn’t mean all men are violent criminals, any more than one woman’s making a false rape claim means they all do so.  So I believe in ASSPAWALT as opposed to AWALT.

[Vector VikingParticipant 413]

– Deleted on Request – wrote:

Vector Viking: The last time I attended a gathering of our local Mensa chapter, it was roughly equally divided between men and women.

Interesting. Here, the last few gatherings I’ve attended have been more of a 90%-10% male-female ratio. That isn’t to say that everyone attends, of course. Just my subjective experience, and I’ve never attended an AG. I’ll stand corrected on my use of the word “overwhelmingly” and go with plain “majority” instead.

FrankOne, prisons aren’t full of men because murders are committed predominately by men. Prisons are full of men because men are more likely to be prosecuted for any crime they commit (or don’t commit). I feel safer using the term “overwhelmingly” in this case. This is another subjective experience, but back in 2000 I went out after work with a female coworker, and it was her turn to be the designated driver. When she was giving me a ride home, she got pulled over for speeding and let the police officer search her person and the officer found a small bag of marijuana in her pocket that I didn’t know she had. She got a speeding ticket, I got a possession charge. For her pot. When I asked the officer why I was being charged, he asked me why I would want my girlfriend to go to jail. I beat the charge, but at no small expense.

[JinParticipant 77]

Interesting thread. I do agree with much of what you are saying. I just want to add this nice video about the physiology of intelligence in just for funsies.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

[FreeGhostSpectator 318]

Men and women have close to equal IQ’s but there are more outliers from the average for men. There are more low IQ and high IQ males along the bell curve than females, this explains why nearly all inventions are by males. Society values attractive women because they are healthy matches for breeding, especially big butts and big t~~~ and are excellent marketing pawns. Intelligence is obviously valued by society for males, but less so as wealth continues to be unequally distributed to the top 20% of income earners. I am not advocating communism/leftist ideologies but our current political system is unfair under crony capitalism. It’s better to be born Donald Trumps son with an IQ of 125 than a relatively nobody with an IQ of 145 even being a graduate in the STEM fields.

[MyselfParticipant 353]

Jin wrote:

prisons aren’t full of men because murders are committed predominately by men. Prisons are full of men because men are more likely to be prosecuted for any crime they commit (or don’t commit).

More likely to be prosecuted, yes, but let’s not forget that men are a lot less risk adverse.  I don’t know many woman that would approach a dark house and break a window, all just to find out what’s inside.

In my experience men and women have different types of intelligence on average.  Men are generally more adapt at spacial abstraction and logical deduction, making them excellent engineers, mathematicians, scientists, strategists, businessmen, etc.  Women seem to do incredibly well with tying together narratives and finding explanations for things that do not have black/white or complete cause/effect progressions: I’m thinking things like historians, anthropologists, phycologists, and teachers. Of course there are exceptions in every direction, but that has just been my experience.

I could care less about beauty.  A beautiful woman these days is, in general, something to avoid unfortunately.

 

[FreeGhostSpectator 318]

Good post. Female psychologist are feminist indoctrinated clowns though. They always proclaim that it’s the males fault.

[treelville..miamiParticipant 893]

Im a staunch believer that men are just better/could be better at anything and everything. Women just don’t care enough to give you there all, whether its at work, relations~~~s, sex you name it.

"The wounds of honor are self inflicted"

[narwhalParticipant]

My original point was not really about whether men were more intelligent then women.  The point was more about, preference for intelligence in a man over the same level of intelligence in a woman.  Likewise, preference for beauty in a woman than the same level of beauty (if that makes sense)  in a man.  And it not just about sex, because I think women would have the same preferences, regardless of sexual orientation.

So why is that?  Perhaps it’s just traditional gender roles, though I don’t think so.  Perhaps it’s  just biological inclination.  Perhaps it because supporting characteristics for beauty (sensitivity, fertility, etc) are more thought of as female characteristics, and supporting characteristics of intelligence (wisdom, leadership, imagination) are thought of as male.   It doesn’t seem like it would be some form of supply and demand.  I really don’t know the reason.

Ok. Then do it.

[Fredrick89Participant 1]

Talking about intelligence… I was wondering what you guys in here thought about this article from Science vs. Feminism regarding the differences in IQ between men and women, and if you had any opinions (approval) about the site in general?

[FrankOneParticipant 1418]

Vector Viking: A lot of the men in prisons are there because of the insane War on Drugs.  Unfortunately, there is a considerable vested interest by the prison industry to KEEP people locked up for ‘crimes’ like drug possession and sales… Everybody thinks I’m a pot smoker because I’m such a huge advocate of legal drugs.  I don’t even smoke weed but I could care less if others do.  It’s not good for them, just like smoking tobacco… But it’s relatively innocuous.  I try to get smokers to switch to e-cigarettes though.  Gangs and violence in America exploded with prohibition and then the drug war…  I live in the rust belt but I’ve driven through South Central LA & I didn’t like what I saw — rolled up metal doors in front of all the businesses.

As for homicide offense rates, males are about 7 times as likely to commit murder and about four times more likely to be murder victims, than are women in the US.  http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf I don’t doubt women are more likely to get off without going to jail, on minor offenses, e.g. license expired, by flirting with a copy or crying to a judge, but I’m extremely skeptical that murders are committed equally by males and females… Looking at UN data, 92-96% of convictions are of males, with Europe at 8% women and Americas at 4%.  Part of this probably relates to men being more involved in violent street gangs.  But part of it, in my opinion, relates to testosterone and its impact upon behavior and aggression.  How many times did boys get in fistfights when you were in grade school vs girls?  Women deal with conflict differently, often passive-aggressive behavior, for instance.

[experiencedParticipant]

When I go to the local chapter of stupid people there are always as many women as men, it’s a fact, IMO.

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[BrainPilotParticipant 7640]

narwhal,
Perhaps the reason intelligence in men is more valued by society is that intelligence is only useful if an effort is made to put it to some use. However intelligent a person may be, that intelligence is of no use to the rest of society unless that intelligent person makes an effort to actually USE IT for something. The likelihood that an intelligent man will do that is higher than for an intelligent woman, because an intelligent woman has the option of having efforts made on her behalf (by a man) in order to get her needs met. An intelligent man has no such option, and will be shamed mercilessly for not using his intelligence and attempting to depend on the efforts of a woman to get his needs met.

While there may well be an intelligent woman who chooses to make the effort to use it, I think that just the availability of the option eliminates the certainty that she will. An intelligent man (without the option) is therefore most likely to make the necessary effort to produce something useful with it.

After 50 years of feminism giving all sorts of unearned advantages to women in hiring and education, and assuming those women were of equal average intelligence to men, we still don’t see the equal numbers of female moon landings, disease cures, and engineering patents in proportion to the equal intelligence they are supposed to have.

As I’ve posted elsewhere, women will not be fully equal to men in the intelligence contest measured by achievement until they give up the option to escape the contest, which is an option currently available only to women.

So, would I rather be stranded on an island with an intelligent male or an equally intelligent female? At 25 years old, I might have said (my hormones might have said) I’d rather be trapped with any female. But at 45, my experience and desire to maximize my chances at survival until rescued would choose the intelligent man as the choice most likely to achieve that.

Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you

[Puffin StuffParticipant 24979]

Our definition of beauty is definitely subjective and cultural. Right now being a beautiful woman or being a top athlete are the prime earners.

But in written history the male form was considered “more attractive” than the female figure.

The ancients felt that beauty in a man meant beauty inside a man. A handsome face was likely an intelligent person. The opposite of how we treat men today.

They felt beauty in a woman was the sign of an evil nature.

Believe it or not:

In ancient Greece the rules of beauty were all important. Things were good for men who were buff and glossy. And for women, fuller-figured redheads were in favour – but they had to contend with an ominous undercurrent, historian Bettany Hughes explains.
A full-lipped, cheek-chiselled man in Ancient Greece knew two things – that his beauty was a blessing (a gift of the gods no less) and that his perfect exterior hid an inner perfection. For the Greeks a beautiful body was considered direct evidence of a beautiful mind. They even had a word for it – kaloskagathos – which meant being gorgeous to look at, and hence being a good person.

Not very politically correct, I know, but the horrible truth is that pretty Greek boys would have swaggered around convinced they were triply blessed – beautiful, brainy and god-beloved. So what made them fit? For years, classical Greek sculpture was believed to be a perfectionist fantasy – an impossible ideal, but we now think a number of the exquisite statues from the 5th to the 3rd Centuries BC were in fact cast from life – a real person was covered with plaster, and the mould created was then used to make the sculpture.

Those with leisure time could spend up to eight hours a day in the gym. An average Athenian or Spartan citizen would have been seriously ripped – thin-waisted, small-penised, oiled from his “glistening lovelocks” down to his ideally slim toes.

A rather different story though when it comes to the female of the species. Hesiod – an 8th/7th Century BC author whose works were as close as the Greeks got to a bible – described the first created woman simply as kalon kakon – “the beautiful-evil thing”. She was evil because she was beautiful, and beautiful because she was evil. Being a good-looking man was fundamentally good news. Being a handsome woman, by definition, spelt trouble.
And if that wasn’t bad enough, beauty was frequently a competitive sport. Beauty contests – kallisteia – were a regular fixture in the training grounds of the Olympics at Elis and on the islands of Tenedos and Lesbos, where women were judged as they walked to and fro. Triumphant men had ribbons tied around winning features – a particularly pulchritudinous calf-muscle or bicep.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30746985

Considered one of the most greatest depiction of male beauty, Michalangilo’s (you know, “just an outlier”): “David”

#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.

[narwhalParticipant]

@brainpilot, that makes a lot of sense and definitely think that’s a big part of it.  A man is more likely to use his intelligence because he has to.  I also think there a biological drive to use his intelligence in most men.  It certainly is in me, and I see it in my son.  I see it somewhat in my daughter, no where near the same drive.

@HR, that’s rather hard to comprehend a society like that.  The view of women, I get, but how they view men is hard to fathom.  As far at the statue goes, I’m not buying that it was actually a plastered person.   The hands seem too big, and out of proportion to the feet, arms, penis, etc…even if the plaster was really cold.

Ok. Then do it.

[Puffin StuffParticipant 24979]

@ Narwhal

I know, it’s hard to believe that our idea that ugly people are smarter is just as bone headed as Ancient Greeks who thought handsomeness meant intelligence. As far as the male form goes, to the greeks they were directly connected. That’s why we make sports part of a well rounded liberal arts education designed around the Greek method. We still call frats “Greeks”.

To Ancient Greeks to think that men are superior in a physical, the body, mind and spirit is called being Apollonian. Or following Apollo’s ways.

It was part of their religion. Apollo was as real to them as Mary is to us. As we think the meek will inherit the earth. They believed there were gods, as ours are, in the likeness of men but, unlike our god, theirs had the personality of people.

These were not real people and were used as archetypes. Zeus the King of Olympus and Apollo dragged the sun around the earth each day.

Being like Apollo, logical, intelligent and handsome, was called being Apollonian.

of or having to do with Apollo; like Apollo.
2. very handsome.
Ex. an Apollonian young man.

http://www.khandbahale.com/englishenglish-q-Apollonian.htm

The opposite of the Apollonian way was the Dionysian way. This is associate with illogic and feelings.

The Apollonian is based on reason and logical thinking. By contrast, the Dionysian is based on chaos and appeals to the emotions and instincts. The content of all great tragedy is based on the tension created by the interplay between these two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian

There is nothing that we say today that has not been said for at least 12,000 years as far back as we can find s~~~.

#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.

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