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Veniversum 4 years ago.
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Especially when you aren’t relying on the system to subsidize you.
Nothing wrong with working very little as long as you don’t have your hand out.
I could explode on this %”&§ comment. breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out.
Cipher Highwind:I see no reason to abstain from bleeding the beast so long as one is also starving it.
The main problem with this is it really p~~~es off ‘suckers’ like me that pay the taxes. So it’s our blood that’s being drained. As for starving it, you’re just increasing the national debt the way I see it. In the US, usually this language of ‘beast’ is used by Christian fundamentalists as in ‘mark of the beast’, where the Leviathan State is the devil, to justify their actions. At least, that’s the way it’s been explained to me.
I see nothing immoral in not wanting to work, or do minimal work. Retire early, live in a houseboat or RV. But, I do see something immoral in claiming monthly disability payments due to made-up ‘illnesses’ & living in government housing — most disability claims are fraudulent in my experience, especially back and mental illnesses, and about 5% of my countrymen in the US are on the SSDI ‘dole’.
Unlike in Germany, in the US, there’s no shame in collecting government bennies.
Veniversum writes:*Of course* worldwide poverty is in decline. That’s because the Federal Reserve, the World Bank, and the IMF are funneling all of the wealth out of the US into those countries, as well as businesses taking advantage of offshore tax loopholes, and corporations moving their business out of the US.
In my view, economics isn’t a zero sum game, with winners and losers. Let’s say I make my plant more productive, and get a raise. Another guy expands his restaurant chain & he makes more, it’s more cost efficient and productive. We both have more purchasing power. One of us didn’t ‘lose’ and the other ‘win’. Poverty goes down when people are more productive; productivity is also increased by trade; as I stated previously, textiles are more efficiently produced in less developed countries, hence, their lower price. The only problem with this is the trade IMBALANCE. And that is only possible, due to the increasing money supply possible under the fiat currency regime. Otherwise, we’d run out of gold OR gradually sell all our assets to the country we had massive imbalances with. I don’t see ‘wealth’ as in accumulated value, being funneled out; rather I see the Fed selling t-bonds, loaning commercial banks money, and expanding the money supply, sustaining trade imbalances. I don’t see the World Bank or IMF having much to do with it at all.
Businesses can and should seek the lowest taxes. That creates incentives for governments to compete for the most business-friendly environment — a much-needed force the check the growth of governments. I’d also like to see them compete more for citizens based upon services provided + tax rates.
Veniversum: I would say working class purchasing power dropped, in the 1970’s and 1980’s, then increased in the mid-1990’s. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ — the plot is interesting — We’re now at about $20.67 vs $19.18 back in 1964.
It’s interesting to look up what your wages were when you started your adult working life, and compare them to present wages, adjusted for inflation. In my case, I’ve realized about a 75% increase over 20 years, in inflation-adjusted dollars. This is pretty typical for someone in a specialized field that’s gained a lot of skills. It isn’t so much my degree that’s in demand; it’s the 20 years of experience. I know recent STEM graduates who can’t get a job. I don’t know any highly-qualified Engineers with 10+ years experience that can’t get a job in their field, especially if they’re willing to move. So there are still opportunities to keep your head above water — be self-employed, go into a field that pays well and requires specialized skills. The days of ‘go work for one of the Big 3 automakers on an assembly line with no skills, get raises every year and get paid a fortune with good retirement’ are over.
There are lots of factors to what we’re seeing — lack of educational attainment relative to other countries, growth in the service sector vs manufacturing (service sector tends to be low skill/pay less), some of the productivity increases goings towards benefits such as health care, instead of wages, with health care being less visible to the employee,
I’m not sure what you meant by ‘paying people money just for having money’. My wealth or assets have never factored into whether a prospective employer hired me. I’ve earned money from passive income due to investing my income, is that what you mean?
As for financial and legislative constraints keeping people from higher incomes, I see taxes as #1 since they gobble up income & investment & kill growth. And government-sponsored grants/student loans, which have driven up the cost of higher education. Even so, I see PLENTY of fields where a man can earn a s~~~load of money. Take me, for instance, I’m a decent programmer, if have worked with mySQL, MSSQL, Access, etc, I could easily do database work with no degrees or certs in such fields, and have been paid significant hourly rates to do project work, even though it’s completely outside my Engineering field — my STEM degree didn’t do squat for getting that work, as it was out of my discipline. I did it for fun & to make extra cash. You can get a few books, read up, and do that — or write apps for phones — those guys seem to make a s~~~load of cash — so there are niches where you don’t need credentials. I also know men who have become skilled mechanics and machinists — again, very low cost to become proficient, VERY high pay. Now the guys I’ve known that work in the retail sector, even management, they are typically, paid s~~~.
As for me, I have nothing but respect for the hourly men who were out in the freezing snowstorm today fixing frozen pipes at my workplace.
I’d say a lot more work is ‘paid by the job now’ in the sense it’s done by contractors and the contractor is paid to complete a specific, well-defined job, but the individual employees, are typically still paid by the hour in my experience. I’m speaking of mechanical work.
JoeBaura: The only reason I didn’t note Libya, is because the total cost of it was relatively insignificant, about the same cost as 2 weeks of the Iraq debacle. That certainly doesn’t justify it, but it is relatively small potatoes in the Federal spend-o-rama. Iraq and Afghanistan, cost us deeply in lives and treasure. As for the drone attacks, they’re largely targeted extrajudicial assasinations, certainly stepped up under Obama’s administration.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is insoluble until you have reasonable negotiators on the Palestinian side. Nobel Peace Prize winner Arafat didn’t cut the mustard; at the end of Clinton’s administration, Israel was again ready to agree to the 2-state solution, but Arafat wouldn’t sign. Instead, he went home and started the second Intifada. You are correct that Israelis killed more Palestinians than the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians. And some of them unjustly. But Israelis do not enter Gaza, yell ‘Allah Akhbar’, and start knifing whoever is closest to them. When they disagree, they don’t kill each other (like Hamas and Fatah); they vote in a parliamentary election and respect the outcome. AraFAT got very FAT when he was alive — he was worth over a billion dollars — by skimming off aid money.
Murry Rothbard correctly identified the state as a gang of thieves writ large.
If a gangster extorts your money and gives some of it to me in hopes that I will not commit petty crimes on his turf, your quarrel is not with me. Rather, a dollar that I take from this gangster is a dollar that cannot be used to do the horrible things that gangsters do, or it is a dollar that must be borrowed or printed, bringing the gang that much closer to financial ruin.
Charity is good PR; it is part of the raison d’etre that the regime uses to justify its existence. Even Al Capone had soup kitchens and he was not a man known for altruism.
Given the horrible things the Washington gang has done in recent years, I have no qualms about calling it a “beast” and the phrase “starve the beast” is in common use in a non-religious context.
Cipher Highwind:I see no reason to abstain from bleeding the beast so long as one is also starving it.
The main problem with this is it really p~~~es off ‘suckers’ like me that pay the taxes. So it’s our blood that’s being drained. As for starving it, you’re just increasing the national debt the way I see it. In the US, usually this language of ‘beast’ is used by Christian fundamentalists as in ‘mark of the beast’, where the Leviathan State is the devil, to justify their actions. At least, that’s the way it’s been explained to me.
I see nothing immoral in not wanting to work, or do minimal work. Retire early, live in a houseboat or RV. But, I do see something immoral in claiming monthly disability payments due to made-up ‘illnesses’ & living in government housing — most disability claims are fraudulent in my experience, especially back and mental illnesses, and about 5% of my countrymen in the US are on the SSDI ‘dole’.
Unlike in Germany, in the US, there’s no shame in collecting government bennies.
Cipher Highwind-
I am intrigued with your thoughts. Thanks Cipher.
At one time I enjoyed work because I enjoy people. I am looking forward to retiring.
Please share with me some of your ideas. Are you renting somewhere or do you own some small place?
How do you store your gold? Do you have a small safe somewhere? Do you keep backup funds to cover some unforeseen problem?
Do you have any hobbies you pursue?
Thanks Cipher.If a gangster extorts your money and gives some of it to me in hopes that I will not commit petty crimes on his turf, your quarrel is not with me. Rather, a dollar that I take from this gangster is a dollar that cannot be used to do the horrible things that gangsters do, or it is a dollar that must be borrowed or printed, bringing the gang that much closer to financial ruin.
Cipher: I used to read Liberty magazine, and Rothbard, was one of the editors in the late 1980’s.
I disagree about the gangster. It is not just good PR. The gangster NEEDS popular support because he is elected. Without distributing money widely, the whole house of cards collapses. If the gangster took ALL my dollars and gave them to others, I wouldn’t work, or would revolt. Or leave his ‘territory’ in this colorful language (i.e. his nation-State).
Most of the business of the Modern State is about regulating, taxing, and redistributing, rather than doing ‘horrible things’, though shooting wars are part of the State too. And of course, the State’s ultimate authority is the gun. Use illegal drugs, get hauled away to jail. Resist, and face a violent arrest for a ‘crime’ that harms no one but yourself — that’s a good example — all laws are ultimately coercive.
The gangster is not reducing your likelihood of petty crimes; rather he’s buying your support. The 5% of the population on disability, will not be voting for candidates that wish to shrink disability paydays. They’ve been bought. Similarly, retirees receive social security; they’re not going to vote in candidates that will allow younger citizens to ‘opt out’, any more than they will vote in limits to their lifetime benefits. And so the size and scope of the State increases.
I was in an office today, with many thousands of State workers, I’d never been there before. The biggest cubicle farm I’d ever seen. Quite ironic, as it was located in a former manufacturing plant. All workers were engaged in processing transfer payments between citizens, with government as the intermediary, and with a little spent on administration for the workers in this Wealth Redistribution Processing Center, who will most certainly, support the Democratic & Republican gangs who continue funding their Agency.
I have a camper shell on the truck; I sleep in there.
Gold is stored in certain undisclosed locations, both local and foreign. I keep some cash on hand to cover operational expenses.
As for hobbies, to be honest, I don’t really have any except my dabbling in Austrian economics and staring in to space. I’m finishing a bachelor’s degree via correspondence, but at this point, it is not for the diploma. Rather, it is to take out student loans; they’ll never see that money again, and I always have the option to walk away from classes if they are more trouble than they are worth.
Please share with me some of your ideas. Are you renting somewhere or do you own some small place?
How do you store your gold? Do you have a small safe somewhere? Do you keep backup funds to cover some unforeseen problem?
Do you have any hobbies you pursue?Thanks Cipher-
I have learned a lot from you. I had not considered these issues before.Austrian economics
Do you understand german? You know who Franz Hörmann is ? hes from Austria.
I should have phrased that as Austrian school economics (Österreichische Schule, psychologische Schule) as opposed to Austrian economics (Österreichische wirtschaft). I do know German, but I used a 10DM note to cheat on a statistics exam.
Austrian economics
Do you understand german? You know who Franz Hörmann is ? hes from Austria.
I omitted a “not” in the below post but I am unable to edit it.
I should have phrased that as Austrian school economics (Österreichische Schule, psychologische Schule) as opposed to Austrian economics (Österreichische wirtschaft). I do not know German, but I used a 10DM note to cheat on a statistics exam.
Austrian economics
Do you understand german? You know who Franz Hörmann is ? hes from Austria.
Anonymous3Alpha males don’t really do work. It’s actually the females that do most of the work, the alpha male just shows up to f~~~ and chase away scavengers.
We actually do see something similar in humans, with the most successful “alpha males” generally being broke, lazy dudes that expect women to give them money, and are very violent.
I used to work as a manager of a store, and I’ve also worked on the corporate side of things and in offices. I didn’t enjoy that type of work, and I didn’t enjoy the environment. I felt the environment was emasculating and unbecoming for a man to be in. Dealing with women, human resources, and office politics on the daily was soul-draining and I felt like I wanted out.
I’m 27, and since the age of 25 I switched careers and became involved in the trades. I now work in industrial pipefitting. I’m an apprentice and I can honestly say I like my work. I can also honestly say that I am a skilled tradesperson now, and I can find good paying work much easier than without a trade. I make OK money, but some of the guys I work with who have been doing it for years make amazing money. That will be me, as I learn the trade and become better at it.
So, I actually kind of enjoy learning mechanical things and learning how to work with my hands. I kind of like my work. I mean, don’t get me wrong, it’d be cool to stay home all day and get paid too (if that was possible, lol), but I much prefer tradeswork and working with other guys than my last job and I actually kind of like this work.
So, I think the key is to find a job you truly feel comfortable doing, and if being good is important to you try and learn it. Plan your goals and work towards them.
I value both my free time and work. In the future, depending on my financial position, I will take some time off work. There is a lot more to life than work, that’s for sure.
I used to work as a manager of a store, and I’ve also worked on the corporate side of things and in offices. I didn’t enjoy that type of work, and I didn’t enjoy the environment. I felt the environment was emasculating and unbecoming for a man to be in. Dealing with women, human resources, and office politics on the daily was soul-draining and I felt like I wanted out.
I’m 27, and since the age of 25 I switched careers and became involved in the trades. I now work in industrial pipefitting. I’m an apprentice and I can honestly say I like my work. I can also honestly say that I am a skilled tradesperson now, and I can find good paying work much easier than without a trade. I make OK money, but some of the guys I work with who have been doing it for years make amazing money. That will be me, as I learn the trade and become better at it.
So, I actually kind of enjoy learning mechanical things and learning how to work with my hands. I kind of like my work. I mean, don’t get me wrong, it’d be cool to stay home all day and get paid too (if that was possible, lol), but I much prefer tradeswork and working with other guys than my last job and I actually kind of like this work.
So, I think the key is to find a job you truly feel comfortable doing, and if being good is important to you try and learn it. Plan your goals and work towards them.
I value both my free time and work. In the future, depending on my financial position, I will take some time off work. There is a lot more to life than work, that’s for sure.
I can identify with that. I had managed two convenient stores/Indian casinos for a year, and I got burned out fast for the same reason as you. The most enjoyable job I ever had, was actually the most labor intensive. I was an oyster fisherman for 8 years. It was hard work, and I had a lot of pride. A sack of oysters weighs anywhere from 80 to 100lbs. We had a sack limit of about 30 sacks or so, and I made anywhere from 3 to 4 dollars a sack depending on which boat I worked on. For a few seasons, I was able to work two boats a day, and I did. Unfortunately, it was seasonal, so not an optimal year round, or lifetime choice. We didn’t get paid hourly though, we got paid by the sack, so literally the harder you worked, the more you got paid. Some people could even catch 3 boats worth in a day, but I never pushed it that far. I don’t think the issue that most men have with work now has anything to do with actually being lazy or not wanting to work. I think the issue is that people who were unable to latch on to a lifetime career, due to whatever reason be it technological disruption, bad personal choices, or simply lack of opportunity, do not want to continue working without progress.. and why should they? Who really wants to work s~~~ jobs their entire life while maintaining a bare existence? If I don’t have a choice about actually making financial progress, then I’d rather maintain my bare existence by my own hand, to my own personal benefit in the wild lands. Learning to program is my last effort. If this doesn’t pan out for whatever reason, I’m quitting permanently. I’ll take whatever I have left, and head out to the wilderness. Working for an entire lifetime for nothing doesn’t interest me. That’s what it equates to if your expenses are always greater than or equal to your pay. It’s not worth it. On a side note, even if I do become successful at programming (I probably will), I will *still* move to the wilderness eventually, or at the very least as far from society as is possible to still be able to complete tasks online. Hopefully satellite technology, or some other long distance internet technology, will enable that possibility. I feel like the majority of the public has lost their minds, and I’d like to get as far away from them as possible and stay that way.
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