You probably won’t get off any better in the end, but at least you’ll be able to say that you saw it coming and made the necessary move of your own volition rather than letting the situation drive you.

If I were on a date and the girl was flirting with the bartender or another dude rather than paying attention to me, I would just walk… 20 years of marriage is no difference. Every day is a canceled check and every tomorrow is an opportunity to move forward in a new direction.

OK, so she’s still a minx in bed for you, but in your big paragraph it doesn’t sound like any of this is fun for you.

Gone are the days when a woman is devoted to one – even just to keep up appearances. I’m not impugning your wife. It’s a general observation. Keeping up appearances is your duty as much as hers.

I’ve also pushed a girlfriend out the door to go have fun with her friends because I was never much into going out with 4 SexAndTheCity chicks to slurp martinis… but one night, a significant ex was dressing up a LITTLE too “slutty” – in a way she never previous dressed for me. The heels a little too high. The boobs pushed together too much and the hair teased up to the moon. It didn’t smell right. But I’ve always encouraged independence in women and would rather she preferred someone else than to leave just because she tired of me. Fortunately women are like monkeys and they don’t let go of one branch until they have a good grip on the NEXT, and there’s very little a man can do when she’s all flirty with other guys.

So to keep control was to NOT control and insist she do whatever she wants. “….but you can’t be in a relationship with ME. Im not a controlling person. You can do whatever (and whoever) you want, but you can’t be in a relationship with me.”. This didn’t actually change anything. It just set a parameter of which I expected her to be aware. Women are not used to that. You give them COMPLETE freedom, but if they choose it, you will not be entirely devoted to her. It’s fair and reasonable.

NoW she would either stray or she would not.
She will either be entirely devoted or she will not.

Personally, I need to know she is there – at all times – because she wants to be, and not out of some sense of obligation or resent. I prefer she knows she can walk at any time, and every minute she is there is because she wants to be. You’ll find when you show women the door and point out it’s unlocked and she can leave any time… they are suddenly less reluctant to use it.

If you’re not her priority, you’re only an option. If you’re feeling like you’re “the option”, it’s time to change something up. That might be different for you than it is for me, but if my wife ever removed the ring she wouldn’t be my wife anymore. She can’t do that.

“None of this would have happened if you just waited 30 minutes for me to call you.”

That’s unacceptable.

Cupcake is going to eventually cut you loose, take 50% (or more) of your assets, and probably squander it all with one of her boy toy bartenders.  If she hasn’t already cut a new stud from the herd, she has already pulled the saddle out of the barn!

Ask yourself this question; if you flipped the script and did EXACTLY what she is doing, how would SHE react?  My bet is she would have a gaggle of her hags at your door with torches and pitchforks.  Time to start your silent maneuvers to out-strategy your enemy.  As hard as it may be to accept, these are the dangerous waters you are likely navigating now.

A seasoned PI who has experience with cheating spouses will tell you that, especially after many consistent years, sudden changes in character and behavior don’t just happen without a reason. New perfume, new taste in clothes, music, hairstyle, body language, posture, eating and exercise habits are indicators that mean little in isolation. In fact, they can mean a variety of different things…usually nothing. But in the aggregate, when they all begin simultaneously, the most likely scenario is that they are all occurring for the same reason. PI’s are cynical, and so am I. We think women who behave this way are already having an affair, or are about to start one.

But my cynicism does not prove anything. I don’t know your wife beyond what you’ve written here. But from what you’ve written here, I can make some observations: She turns her back on you and chats with the bartender. When you say something about it, she laughs. These are enormously disrespectful to you wether she’s officially screwing around or not.

She goes to a bar full of single men without her husband and takes her ring off. This is enormously disrespectful to her/your marriage. She is announcing to the world, or at least everyone in that bar, that she is not married…has not made any promise to love, honor, cherish anyone… and is under no obligation to behave as though she has. It’s a false announcement, of course…so not even completely respectful of the people in the bar. But she doesn’t really owe anyone in the bar honesty, or anything else that was never promised to them. She promised these things to you, and if you’ve delivered on yours, she has failed to reciprocate.

For her to say, “what’s the difference as long as I come home and bang you?” carries a message that is clear to me, but may not be as clear to you. What I hear in that message is “If I’m providing sex, you have no basis to expect respect from me”. This is what you get from a prostitute, albeit in exchange for sex at a far less expensive rate. What she’s telling is you is that, in exchange for what you’re providing her, she is providing sex, but respect does not come with it. If there was any doubt about that second part, she makes a threat. She could have acknowledged that she disrespected someone who’s been earning for her for 20 years and apologized. But she made a threat instead. That was a conscious choice for her. I can’t think of a scenario where it’s possible to threaten someone and respect them simultaneously.

Lots of women believe that sex is the only thing that matters to men and as long as they provide it, they need offer nothing else and can demand whatever the hell they want in return for it. They have many indicators that demonstrate this is true, but it isn’t. Men do not maintain loyalty long without respect. In Latin communities in particular, that machismo philosophy is all about respect. Their house, family, kids, jobs etc. They are obsessed with all the signs of respect, or lack thereof. Asians are similarly all about ‘saving face’. I’m neither Asian or Latin, but I’ve learned from watching them and speaking to them that you if you let someone disrespect you long enough, soon, no one else will…including you.

One old latin guy explained it this way: ‘…without respect, life is not really worth living. And so disrespect is the same as a threat on my life, and I treat it accordingly…’. he emphasized that violence isn’t always necessary to ensure respect, but constant awareness of it is.

The threat is to take half the assets you’ve earned over the last 20 years, break up the family, and extract a significant portion of the assets you’re going to earn in the future in the form of child support. I don’t think carrying it out is a smart move for her to make, but that won’t stop her from doing it. I can tell you that it’s not smart for her, because I am one of a group of 40 something males with no kids, no debt and good earning potential…etc that she probably believes are waiting for her to become actually single again instead of just acting the part…so that we can replace you. But we aren’t.

We are not waiting to replace you. She is not ‘special’ to anyone but you. We and others may flirt and dance with her in a bar…but we are not looking to earn for her for the next 20 years. If she makes good on this threat, she will become a 40 something (assuming age from 20 years of marriage) divorcee with 3 kids. We are not looking to earn for her, to promise her anything or to deliver much of anything. She’s got very little to offer us except sex. Sex with her is worth a lot to you because you can’t f~~~ anyone but her. She’s essentially the only woman on this planet for you to f~~~. For you, the fair price is high enough that you are (possibly at least considering) trading away your self respect for it.

But I can f~~~ anyone I want, and I got 3 billion options. What makes her think any of us would choose her over any of the decades younger, better looking childless women lined up next to her?

Sorry to sound as graphic and harsh as I do here. I’m trying to clear some fog. She’s either the wife and other of your kids and the last woman on earth you will have sex with, or she’s (at least behaving like) a bar-fly gold digging skunk. It’s tough for you because you have a decision to make, and it’s not quite clear yet what you are dealing with (though it sounds like the fog is starting to clear). The action you should take for one is so vastly different than for the other that you can’t split the difference. To me, it seems the first necessary step is to figure out what you are dealing with, because either one involves a pretty extreme decision.

When you’re in a building, and the lights start to flicker, you start to smell smoke, the air is getting warmer and you can hear screaming in the distance and rapid foot steps outside the door… There might not actually be a real fire. You don’t necessarily have to panic or assume there is a fire, but you’d be an idiot not to go and find out for certain wether or not there is one.

Hire the private investigator, and while he does his work, learn as mush as you can about the divorce laws in your state and how to prepare for the process. (Figure out if there’s a fire while sorting out the path to the nearest exit if it turns out there is one).

Sorry again for your situation and for the harshness at which I view it. Please keep us posted here. There are many here whose experience you might benefit from and at least as many that may benefit from yours…

Consider both scenarios, staying with a wife who acts like she’s single when you are not around or kicking her to the curb and ask yourself, where will I be a year from now for both choices. 2 years from now? Which path looks better for you? Your kids?

Go your own way!

Good luck.

It’s unfair that you have to lose everything, but she will win it all and leave you broke, renting out of a cheap apartment, not let you see the kids and force you to turn to alcoholism as you finally pull the trigger.

Just apologize too your kids and that they will understand when they get older, get your money, then fly and live the mgtow way.