Brief background: I am a 26 year old software engineer from the USA, who has never married, only dated two or three times, and is absolutely terrible at interacting with women.

I’ve suffered the abuses of women on many an occasion, noticed the double standard, and generally been dissatisfied with my enforced role in society. None of that, however, prepared me for discovering MGTOW. I’ll keep this short by saying: I am in turmoil. The red pills provided here are eye-opening, unrestrained, and extremely hostile toward women. While I have had notions of GMOW for a long while, never before has it resonated so deeply. However, I am struggling with the concept on an emotional/societal level and feel a deep sense of depression, loss, and anger. Again, I will try to keep this brief and simply say I fell I need some insight into how to deal with the idea of eschewing women altogether.

You’ve suffered many abuses from women.

You are not the only one. Those abuses are being carried out on an industrialized scale. As a result of that, you’ve thought about being mgtow for a while, but were hesitant because that was not really your original plan (meet a girl, fall in love, get married, go to work, buy a house, have some kids, live happily ever after). Even though your original plan was looking more and more impossible, you still had hope for it. Maybe you thought you were the only one with your experiences, and that the rest of the herd (of men) were all falling into that plan and eventually, you’d fall in with the herd too.

But lately, you’ve stumbled onto the realization that a huge part of the herd has had the same experience that you have had, and have abandoned that plan altogether. Maybe you heard that the number of adults who are married is at a historical all time low. Maybe you’ve seen that stat showing 70% of males between 24 and 30 are not married, or planning to be.

Your plan is looking more and more as though it was based on a beautiful lie, and a lot of other people have come to see that lie for the deception that it is. There is some predictable hostility regarding that lie, and what it was intended to do to us, and take from us. The plan, as it was originally explained to you, had some benefit in it for you. You are now starting to see that the reality is leading you to a financial, social and emotional slaughter.

Now, you’re not sure what to do. You don’t have a back up plan that will provide you that same benefit. You are correct in perceiving that as a loss, and being unhappy as a result of it.

But it is not necessary to eschew women altogether to be mgtow. Many mgtow date women, have relationships and sex with women, but are not participating in the beautiful lie. Just don’t EVER sign that fraudulent marriage contract which is the cornerstone of the beautiful lie. The general agreement on why you cannot be mgtow and married is that once married, there is really nothing left that is your own. Bluntly: After signing that contract, your property, earnings, rights, freedom, children etc all become within the control of someone else who can take them away whenever she chooses.

Most are at least a little disappointed at learning that the benefit made available by that plan to our grandfathers is no longer available to us. But that doesn’t last. Just because the beautiful lie is now a lie, does not mean that other benefits disappear. There are other benefits you probably don’t yet see that come from being mgtow. You just can’t stumble blindly into a fraudulent contract …

How close was I?

Really MGTOW is living life on your own terms, whatever they may be. You can deal with women, or not deal with them. If you need a hand trying to figure out how you fit in we’ll lend a hand. It’s all about options my man, the more you have the better life gets.

Sure, but there is a message being relayed on this site: women should not be a priority and indeed are potentially extremely destructive. Admittedly, I bought into the whole “women are equal”, “women are amazing”, “you are nothing if you are single”, goaded by all my friends who were sleeping around and constantly in-and-out of relationships. I’m just struggling with the cognitive dissonance of always feeling like I should be chasing women and throwing myself at them to finally finding a group that espouses my own stance of “why the f~~~ would I want this?”.

However, a little over a year ago, I had my heart ripped out, my wallet gouged, and my self-esteem destroyed by an unfeeling bitch. So the message of MGTOW is resonant. Moreover, the red pills have helped to identify *many* of the despicable and subtle behaviors I have noticed when interacting with women (even, to my continued dismay, my mother and sister).

Allow me to go on a little further (sorry about the post length, but I have been mulling over this whole thing for several days now) and say that I am still a little apprehensive about claiming my place among the MGTOW. There have been plenty of articles/videos that appear to be blatantly misogynist and take extra pains to be abusive or unfair to the female perspective. Additionally, a number of these articles/videos have also belittled and derided groups that I am a part of. Needless to say, I’m not pleased. I understand this is possibly an incident of clinging to values that have been drilled into my psyche for decades. Please educate me.

Ludo, I’m not sure I completely understand what you’re trying to ask for here, but I’ll give it a shot, and you can tell me how accurate I was… You’ve suffered many abuses from women. You are not the only one. Those abuses are being carried out on an industrialized scale. As a result of that, you’ve thought about being mgtow for a while, but were hesitant because that was not really your original plan (meet a girl, fall in love, get married, go to work, buy a house, have some kids, live happily ever after). Even though your original plan was looking more and more impossible, you still had hope for it. Maybe you thought you were the only one with your experiences, and that the rest of the herd (of men) were all falling into that plan and eventually, you’d fall in with the herd too. But lately, you’ve stumbled onto the realization that a huge part of the herd has had the same experience that you have had, and have abandoned that plan altogether. Maybe you heard that the number of adults who are married is at a historical all time low. Maybe you’ve seen that stat showing 70% of males between 24 and 30 are not married, or planning to be. Your plan is looking more and more as though it was based on a beautiful lie, and a lot of other people have come to see that lie for the deception that it is. There is some predictable hostility regarding that lie, and what it was intended to do to us, and take from us. The plan, as it was originally explained to you, had some benefit in it for you. You are now starting to see that the reality is leading you to a financial, social and emotional slaughter. Now, you’re not sure what to do. You don’t have a back up plan that will provide you that same benefit. You are correct in perceiving that as a loss, and being unhappy as a result of it. But it is not necessary to eschew women altogether to be mgtow. Many mgtow date women, have relationships and sex with women, but are not participating in the beautiful lie. Just don’t EVER sign that fraudulent marriage contract which is the cornerstone of the beautiful lie. The general agreement on why you cannot be mgtow and married is that once married, there is really nothing left that is your own. Bluntly: After signing that contract, your property, earnings, rights, freedom, children etc all become within the control of someone else who can take them away whenever she chooses. Most are at least a little disappointed at learning that the benefit made available by that plan to our grandfathers is no longer available to us. But that doesn’t last. Just because the beautiful lie is now a lie, does not mean that other benefits disappear. There are other benefits you probably don’t yet see that come from being mgtow. You just can’t stumble blindly into a fraudulent contract … How close was I?

Close. You touched on some important points. Much of my younger life was about chasing pussy, flirting, and getting a girlfriend (with almost no success, P.S. I’m really bad with women). So the idea was, as I got older, to continue that and try to find a woman I could build a life with. I thought I had found that woman some time ago, but it turns out that she was *exactly* like the women portrayed on this site. So, after a year of experiencing depression, heartbreak, and crippling self-esteem issues, I found MGTOW. Now, the question is what do I do now? My plans for finding a woman are pretty much gone. My tendency to ignore the dating scene is conveniently rationalized and supported. Eh, I don’t know. I guess I’m just in the transition period of moving from a beta f~~~wad to a MGHOW…

The red pills provided here are eye-opening, unrestrained, and extremely hostile toward women.

read carefully we love women.. The majority here are strait men…The hostility is towards the actions and very nature of female character..

Your anger should subside in time…Enjoy the forums.

I read your post, I think of an analogy I’m going to try to make to you to illustrate your situation as I see it. And here is that analogy…

You got on this boat expecting a pleasant trip. But it’s not turning out that way. The food is bad. The staff is rude and the service sucks. It’s noisy and smelly and hot and generally uncomfortable. The thing is barely seaworthy and you find yourself constantly bailing s~~~ from the bilge tanks in order to keep it afloat. It’s degrading. The engine is unreliable and you are frequently required to paddle with an oar to keep it going. There’s smoke everywhere and you have very little view beyond the railing of the boat. You don’t even know where you are. As a passenger arriving on this boat with money and brains and other resources, you know it shouldn’t be like this.

The captain is a particularly disrespectful ass and all the crew are nearly as bad. Any complaint you have goes nowhere and produces no change in this crappy cruise you are on. The crew will lie to you, insult you and steal from you. You begin to suspect they are actually pirates as they seem much more interested in robbing you than in transporting you anywhere you want to go.

Finally, you find a working radio and call out to whoever you can find for answers about what you should do. You explain this horrible situation to the first person who’ll listen and answer. A voice identifying himself as a (mgtow) coast guard answers and tells you that the problems on that boat are pretty common knowledge among the coast guard (having heard your complaints before) and cannot be changed. He confirms that the crew really are pirates, and that the boat is doomed and everyone in the coast guard knows it. He tells you to abandon that boat and swim away…

You hesitate. This is not the response you expected. You want to fix the conditions on this boat and stay on it, not abandon it. You want to learn how to win these arguments with the crew and not get butt hurt. You want the pleasure cruise you were promised. Your mother taught you to be a good deck hand and you want to be nice and somehow arrange that this crew will be nice back to you… so you can stay aboard…

You worry that since you are way out in the ocean, you don’t just want to leap blindly from the boat in all this smoke and fog. You tell all this to the coast guard, and the voice comes back and tells you to get your ass off the ship and don’t look back. You ask the coast guardsman on the radio to come out and get you and maybe do something with the crew of this boat. He tells you to again to abandon ship and start swimming…

What do you do?

Right now, you seem to be standing at the rail looking down into the water and out into the smoke and fog and you’re not sure if you want to jump or not.

About 30 years ago, I was in the exact same position, under the exact same circumstances, facing the exact same decision…only I didn’t have a radio or anyone to discuss it with. I hesitated for a very long time, and took insults from the crew of pirates for a very long time, but finally I jumped and started swimming.

I swam for a while and when the smoke cleared, I found that I wasn’t in an ocean. I was in a river. I could have jumped anytime during all those years I had hesitated. I felt like a dumbass for staying as long as I did. I swam toward the river bank. When I got there, I found all these coast guardsman sitting in lawn chairs on the bank, drinking beer, occasionally cracking jokes at those retarded pirates and their slowly sinking boat…and generally doing whatever the hell they wanted.

The conditions on the bank were 100 times better than on that boat. They told me there were other boats I could take if I wanted to, but the conditions were unlikely to be much better. They also told me that on shore, the conditions were as good or bad as I chose to make them, and that if I chose, I could walk comfortably and safely to anywhere I had hoped that boat would take me.

They smiled at me for staying on the boat for as long as I did. Then, they welcomed me onto shore, handed me a beer… and told me to go man the radio for them for a while…

So here I am… 30 years later… typing on this radio… telling you to get your ass off that boat and start swimming…

How’s the connection?

Can you hear me now???!!! 🙂

Here’s a post I wrote to someone else who seemed to have similar uncertainty about what to do re: mgtow. apologies to those who’ve already read it… I read your post, I think of an analogy I’m going to try to make to you to illustrate your situation as I see it. And here is that analogy… You got on this boat expecting a pleasant trip. But it’s not turning out that way. The food is bad. The staff is rude and the service sucks. It’s noisy and smelly and hot and generally uncomfortable. The thing is barely seaworthy and you find yourself constantly bailing s~~~ from the bilge tanks in order to keep it afloat. It’s degrading. The engine is unreliable and you are frequently required to paddle with an oar to keep it going. There’s smoke everywhere and you have very little view beyond the railing of the boat. You don’t even know where you are. As a passenger arriving on this boat with money and brains and other resources, you know it shouldn’t be like this. The captain is a particularly disrespectful ass and all the crew are nearly as bad. Any complaint you have goes nowhere and produces no change in this crappy cruise you are on. The crew will lie to you, insult you and steal from you. You begin to suspect they are actually pirates as they seem much more interested in robbing you than in transporting you anywhere you want to go. Finally, you find a working radio and call out to whoever you can find for answers about what you should do. You explain this horrible situation to the first person who’ll listen and answer. A voice identifying himself as a (mgtow) coast guard answers and tells you that the problems on that boat are pretty common knowledge among the coast guard (having heard your complaints before) and cannot be changed. He confirms that the crew really are pirates, and that the boat is doomed and everyone in the coast guard knows it. He tells you to abandon that boat and swim away… You hesitate. This is not the response you expected. You want to fix the conditions on this boat and stay on it, not abandon it. You want to learn how to win these arguments with the crew and not get butt hurt. You want the pleasure cruise you were promised. Your mother taught you to be a good deck hand and you want to be nice and somehow arrange that this crew will be nice back to you… so you can stay aboard… You worry that since you are way out in the ocean, you don’t just want to leap blindly from the boat in all this smoke and fog. You tell all this to the coast guard, and the voice comes back and tells you to get your ass off the ship and don’t look back. You ask the coast guardsman on the radio to come out and get you and maybe do something with the crew of this boat. He tells you to again to abandon ship and start swimming… What do you do? Right now, you seem to be standing at the rail looking down into the water and out into the smoke and fog and you’re not sure if you want to jump or not. About 30 years ago, I was in the exact same position, under the exact same circumstances, facing the exact same decision…only I didn’t have a radio or anyone to discuss it with. I hesitated for a very long time, and took insults from the crew of pirates for a very long time, but finally I jumped and started swimming. I swam for a while and when the smoke cleared, I found that I wasn’t in an ocean. I was in a river. I could have jumped anytime during all those years I had hesitated. I felt like a dumbass for staying as long as I did. I swam toward the river bank. When I got there, I found all these coast guardsman sitting in lawn chairs on the bank, drinking beer, occasionally cracking jokes at those retarded pirates and their slowly sinking boat…and generally doing whatever the hell they wanted. The conditions on the bank were 100 times better than on that boat. They told me there were other boats I could take if I wanted to, but the conditions were unlikely to be much better. They also told me that on shore, the conditions were as good or bad as I chose to make them, and that if I chose, I could walk comfortably and safely to anywhere I had hoped that boat would take me. They smiled at me for staying on the boat for as long as I did. Then, they welcomed me onto shore, handed me a beer… and told me to go man the radio for them for a while… So here I am… 30 years later… typing on this radio… telling you to get your ass off that boat and start swimming… How’s the connection? Can you hear me now???!!!

Nice. I think I would refine it a bit by suggesting that you did not, indeed, simply land ashore and kick back with a beer. Instead, you captain your own boat now. It may be small, and you may have to do everything yourself, but it goes where *you* decide, and the mistakes are yours and the good days are yours. Anyway, I get the analogy. But you say yourself: you took a while to come to grips with what you had discovered/decided. I am simply looking for some support in this tumultuous transformation. Thank you, all the same.

Also, like you, it was an enormous disappointment to accept that there was no unicorn out there waiting for me to find and live happily ever after. Being led to believe that there was something beneficial for me, and then finding that it was either absent, or actually toxic, is a valid grounds for disappointment. My disappointment is legitimate and rational and a big part of the reason I hesitated for as long as I did. Possibly yours too…?

But no matter really. As long as you perceive the reality anytime before signing that contract…a minute is a good as a year. And the disappointment that something would have been bad, is easier than the disappointment that it has already happened and it IS bad. It will pass, and you will not have been stripped of the means to have a happy life without it…

You are correct. It did take a while for me, but my decision was made at a time preceding mgtow.com. In fact, it preceded the internet (yeah, i’m old like that). The first thought I had when I found this site was, “I wish I had had this site 30 years ago…”. But there was no internet then. I only knew the little that I could see immediately around me. I made my decision to make a change from what was expected of me at a time when I couldn’t stand it to continue. I had realized long before that what was expected of me was a crap deal, but believing (wrongly) that I was the only one who thought this way, I didn’t act on it. I only acted when I felt alone, but had no other choice. If I’d had this site, and known that there were vast numbers of others who saw the situation exactly as I did, I would have probably trusted my own perceptions more and acted sooner. Also, like you, it was an enormous disappointment to accept that there was no unicorn out there waiting for me to find and live happily ever after. Being led to believe that there was something beneficial for me, and then finding that it was either absent, or actually toxic, is a valid grounds for disappointment. My disappointment is legitimate and rational and a big part of the reason I hesitated for as long as I did. Possibly yours too…? But no matter really. As long as you perceive the reality anytime before signing that contract…a minute is a good as a year. And the disappointment that something would have been bad, is easier than the disappointment that it has already happened and it IS bad. It will pass, and you will not have been stripped of the means to have a happy life without it…

Great! This is the support I was looking for, I suppose. Yes, there is no unicorn. I was *floored* when I realized that the whole idea of love, and equality, and whatnot was akin to a religion: built upon fairy tales, propaganda, bullying, and outright lies. That’s what really turned everything on its head. A concept that I’ve held close has been revealed to be a sham. Don’t get me wrong, just like religion I am happy to be awakened to the truth, but there is always a price to pay to step into the light of understanding…

Thanks again, BrainPilot. The transformation continues…