Nevertheless, I wanted to be in that relationship, but she went on with her insecurities, stating that “What good does a relationship if there is no guarantee of marriage and a family?” BTW, she was 23, I was 22. The blue b~~~~ I suffered from were huge. After all, after we split up, I’ve spent almost four years still wanting her, despite the girls around me.

Anyway, I’m now 28 and I’m quite poised on not entering relationships, unless some outstanding utopic Xena-like female who cooks and loves working out comes into my view. BUT my question is whether any of you received the same treatment – sexless relationship before marriage, in order to control a guy into promising marriage or other stuff like that?

it serves you no purpose, pump and dump

as for my experiences- none like that

She was afraid that if we did the deed, I would afterwards leave her. Bulls~~~.

That IS absolute bulls~~~.

And why? It means she thinks vagina (and sex) is the BEST thing she has to offer. Oh yeah. I said it. And I know it. If she is afraid you’ll leave her after sex, it means she knows in her heart she’s not good for anything else.

Think about that last sentence.

Women who withhold sex thinking you’ll leave them afterwards don’t know how to keep a man around. BEST thing you can do is say this s~~~ right to her face and leave her BEFORE. Do not give a chick like this any attention. Don’t YOU work for it. Make HER work for it. You will not jump through hoops to “prove you won’t leave her”. That is a bunch of crap and the oldest s~~~ test in the book.

Withholding vagina like it’s priceless is the WORST way for a woman to show her value.
In fact, in doing so, it shows she’s got no other value at all.

For example, she didn’t specifically say it, but ‘marriage and family’ also includes things like ‘wedding ring and honeymoon’. It includes things like ‘house and car’. It includes children and ALL the expenses that go with it: food, medical, clothing, tuition, toys, college etc.. etc.. etc… She never mentioned these things, or what they cost, did she?

There are a few different reasons why she didn’t mention the cost.
1) She didn’t know the cost – why would she? She’s not the one who’s going to be paying so why would she need to know.
2) She knows but doesn’t care – why would she care? You’re the one paying. The cost is your problem.
3) She knows but is hiding it – She doesn’t want you to fully understand what the magic vagina is going to cost you until AFTER you’ve irreversibly committed to paying a price that she’ll decide after you are committed and she is in a position to have the state FORCE you to pay for it.

I’m a 48 year old successful professional. I’ve been a good financial producer for about 2 decades and therefore have been a prime target for almost as long. I was married once. No kids. Let me explain the cost to you.

The expected price of the wedding ring is 2 months of your salary. If you make 60k per year, she’ll expect a 10,000 dollar piece of jewelry as a trophy that she can show her friends. You can expect a wedding and honeymoon to cost at least as much. These expenses are not tax deductible, so you’re in the red for about 5-6 months salary before you even have a chance to say “I do”.

You’ll be expected to buy a house, either before, or very shortly after the honeymoon. The note on the house will be such that up to about 1/3 of your take home pay will be absorbed by it. If you make 60k a year, you can expect her to want a house that will cost about 180k. The cost of ownership each month will be about 1%, or 1800 per month of your 5k per month income. That’s the limit on what the bank will loan you, and that’s exactly what she’ll want. Next, she’ll want a car, and a kid. It’s difficult to quantify exactly what a kid costs, but I’ve seen credible articles who put the estimate at around $240,000 for raising a kid through college. This process will take about 22 years. The wife will go through about 4-6 cars during this period + at least 1 for the kid.

Starting the day you get married, the IRS will consider HALF of everything you earn to be hers, except for the house. The house will not belong 50% to you. It’s essentially 100% hers. Divorce courts will not take a child from the mother, and they will not evict a child from their home. She’ll get the kids, and she’ll get the home, but you’ll continue to pay for both. If you stay married, after a few years, she’ll probably want another kid, a bigger home, a new car, new jewelry, etc etc etc Basically, anything any of her friends get, she’ll also want soon thereafter. You’ll be providing all that too, and you will not reach the end of that list. She can add things faster than you can buy things, and if you don’t buy fast enough, she will say no again to anymore vagina visitation. (You didn’t actually think that permanent commitment of all your time, effort, attention and assets was going to guarantee permanent access to magic vagina did you? Silly boy!)

If at ANY point along the way, you fail to meet all these demands, or otherwise displease her in ANY way, or if she finds ANY other dick she’d like to trade yours for, then she takes the house and the kid and that magic vagina you thought so highly of, and she leaves. You get to continue paying for the house you no longer live in and for the kid you no longer see, but they will not be returned to you. If you’re lucky, you get to drive by the house (assuming she didn’t get a restraining order), and maybe you get to visit the kid (assuming she didn’t accuse you of abuse or molestation). You do not get to visit the magic vagina…

If you are not lucky, she accuses you of hitting her or the kid, and you go to jail. You no longer have the right of due process or the presumption of innocence. If you own firearms, they’ll be confiscated. You no longer have 2nd amendment rights. If she lies, the consequences for you are the same as if her accusations were true. There are no consequences for her for hitting you, lying to the police, lying to you, lying about you, abusing or kidnaping those children you thought were yours, or taking and keeping the house, ring, retirement funds you’ve accumulated… There are not even any taxes she has to pay on all this. It was already hers… She paid for it with the temporary visitation on that vagina.

Your ‘luck’ is determined by her mood at any given moment.

You pay for a house that you no longer get to live in, a child you no longer get to see, living expenses for another adult for all the time you are married and (depending on where you live) a significant period of time after the divorce, along with at least 50% of all the other assets you’ve earned, and a significant portion of your constitutional rights…

In exchange for ALL this, she offers you exactly what? Some short term visitation on the magic vagina? It seems like a lot to ask for just a little visitation on some vagina, and it is.

As keymaster and others have already pointed out, that’s all she’s offering, because THAT’S ALL SHE’S GOT TO OFFER. If she had anything else, she’d be offering that, but she doesn’t. She offered you 100% of what she has to offer, and in return, she wants 100% of what you have to offer. In reality, it’s almost hard to blame her for this. If you’ve only got one thing to offer, you have to hope that you can use that one thing to get everything else you will ever need in exchange for it. ‘Can’t blame her for trying. But you do not owe her this commitment.

If you think that’s a fair trade, the vagina and the dotted line await your autograph. If not, mgtow awaits you and membership here is completely free.

Women control vagina access. Men control long term commitment and free resources. Long term commitment in exchange for short term access is a deal for a sucker. And judging by the 70% of men 24-33 who are not married, and have no intent to be, the supply of suckers is quickly drying up. That’s where all the ‘good men’ have gone…

It was a sexless relationship, despite a huge attraction between us. She allowed me to finger her, kissed, blah blah, all sorts of stuff but no penetration.  Her reason? She was afraid that if we did the deed, I would afterwards leave her. Bulls~~~.

Exactly bulls~~~.  Women know the best way to get a man to stick around is by filling his stomach and draining his b~~~~.  She wasn’t trying to get you to stick around.  She figured she already had you because you were clearly putting up with that s~~~.  She was just trying to increase her perceived bargaining position for your stuff.

Girls like that are usually f~~~ing guys right and left on the side because they don’t see them as “relationship material”.  They’re just a bit of fun.  Meanwhile she sees you as someone she can use sex as a bargaining chip with so she withholds it.  Don’t tolerate that s~~~ for a second.  People here often say “pump and dump”, but there’s another side to it:  pump OR dump.  If you’re not pumping you should already be dumping.  Sexless relationships with women aren’t relationships.

After all, after we split up, I’ve spent almost four years still wanting her, despite the girls around me.

That’s only because you don’t quite understand how big a bullet you dodged there.  If you hadn’t split with her your sexless relationship would have transitioned right into a sexless marriage and now you’d be f~~~ed.

Kyle R. wrote:

Anyway, I’m now 28 and I’m quite poised on not entering relationships, unless some outstanding utopic Xena-like female who cooks and loves working out comes into my view.

Even then continue going your own way.  No matter how wonderful you think she is, you don’t meet her for real until after you’ve signed on the bottom line.  Never sign on the bottom line.

Thus endeth the lesson.

Kyle R. wrote:

She was afraid that if we did the deed, I would afterwards leave her. Bulls~~~.

That IS absolute bulls~~~. And why? It means she thinks vagina (and sex) is the BEST thing she has to offer. Oh yeah. I said it. And I know it. If she is afraid you’ll leave her after sex, it means she knows in her heart she’s not good for anything else. Think about that last sentence. 

Well that’s an interesting point of view. At that time, I was many things in her that made me want to be in a relationship, e.g. I believed there was a lot she could offer besides sex. She was a professional sportswoman (mountain biking champion), she actually spent time hiking in the mountains, she liked oldschool heavy metal, she was quite unlike most girls I’ve met before. And yet, she was full of insecurities due to her desire to control. A bit of an oxymoron.

Anyway, I did not wait for her to put up. After three months, I dumped her, but continued to desire her for some three years, even though I had sex with other girls. In my mind, I believed that girls who like all the aforementioned things are very hard to find (especially hot ones, like her), and to this day I remain skeptical, but to a certain degree, I still hope to find a woman who is hot AND has the same hobbies I have.

Am I too delusional? After five years without any serious relationships, I don’t know what to believe.

she liked oldschool heavy metal

There is no way she’s a virgin, not the kinda girl that listens to metal. She’s given sex away for free many times, she was trying to play you like a chump!

BrainPilot wrote:

If you think that’s a fair trade, the vagina and the dotted line await your autograph. If not, mgtow awaits you and membership here is completely free.

I was frowning throughout that post, the situation is so sad and s~~~ty, and I know many men that have been there.  But then I hit that last line, LOL!

Kyle R. wrote:

I still hope to find a woman who is hot AND has the same hobbies I have. Am I too delusional?

That’s what a lot of guys want, and that’s what they never find. You see women don’t need hobbies to be attractive interesting people. They get plenty of male attention simply because they have a vagina. So they don’t bother to develop an interesting personality or life. Most women’s “hobbies” are shopping, Netflix, and napping. This is why they’re only good for sex, and barely at that.

That’s what a lot of guys want, and that’s what they never find. You see women don’t need hobbies to be attractive interesting people. They get plenty of male attention simply because they have a vagina. So they don’t bother to develop an interesting personality or life. Most women’s “hobbies” are shopping, Netflix, and napping. This is why they’re only good for sex, and barely at that.

Welp, I guess we can thank women for making us men not boring.

Maybe that’s the reason I watch female stand up comics with a stone face, men have been developing humour and wit looking for the perfect formula, because we don’t have a vagina and want one.

Having a penis is not good enough, a man must be more than that and must be continuously impressive, a woman’s job is merely to be impressed, then to pass judgement, then pass.

Then men try even harder.

Thanks for something, at least.